256 – Kickstart your website copy with Copyflight

256 – Kickstart your website copy with Copyflight

Interview with Todd E. Jones and Nathan Wrigley

One the more challenging things to do when creating a website is to write effective copy. In the era of Page Builders, getting the site to look good and work well is easier than ever… but getting effective and compelling copy on your site is as hard as it’s ever been. In fact, with the competition out there, all trying to get the same SEO juice as you are, it might be harder than it’s ever been.


Unless you’re a pro at this you might struggle, and your clients might be even worse.

Step up Todd E. Jones and his Website Copy Framework.

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It’s Todd’s mission to make it as easy as possible to go from zero copy to a fully fleshed out site as quickly as possible.

It’s a resource that you can use over and over again to help with all aspects of any website. It’ll give you guidance to unlock your writing blockers and get you up and running.

Specifically, it’ll help map out with suggestions and templates how to write for:

  • Home Pages
  • About Pages
  • Service Pages

With extra resources for:

  • Value Propositions
  • Extracting Benefits
  • Company Story Worksheets
  • About Page Framework

We talked on the podcast about why Todd built the product, and how he got into using WordPress.

We also discuss exactly what it’s used for. It’s essentially a collection of templates for all the different components you need to put on your website. It makes it easier for you to understand how to get started and what effective copywriting is.

So if you need help with your copywriting, check out the podcast and see if the Website Copy Framework might get you writing better copy.

Mentioned in this podcast:



Nathan Wrigley

Nathan Wrigley

Nathan writes posts and creates audio about WordPress on WP Builds. He can also be found in the WP Builds Facebook group.

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The WP Builds Deals Page

We thanks them for their support of WP Builds.

Transcript (if available)

These transcripts are created using software, so apologies if there are errors in them.

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[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome. So the WP Builds podcast, bringing you the latest news from the WordPress community. Welcome your host, david Walmsley, Nathan Wrigley.

Hello there and welcome once again to the WP Builds podcast. This is episode number 256. Entitled kickstart your website. Copy with copy flights. It was published on Thursday, the 25th of November, 2021. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and some very short housekeeping just before we begin the podcast. It is, as I'm sure you're aware black Friday, it's coming up incredibly soon and we have gone out of our way to make WordPress deals easier to find than ever.

We've got well over 200 on our black Friday page, you're going to find that by going to WP Builds.com forward slash black that's WP Builds.com forward slash black. And once you get there, click the yellow search and filter. A little menu will sweep in from the left and it will enable you to filter things by price and by category.

And you can search for them as well. If you've got a particular product in mind, you can search for it and hopefully it will pop up. There are some affiliate links in there and we very much appreciate it. Little revenue that we generate from that it enables us to keep the lights on the podcast. And I really appreciate anybody who uses that page for their links this year and feel free to share it, to spread the joy.

It does make it a lot easier to find. So once more WP Builds.com forward slash blog. Okay. This week on the podcast, we have an interview episode it's with Todd E Jones. And as I said, it's about kickstarting, your website. Copy with copy flight. Copy flight is the kind of resource that you're going to.

If you are stuck, you don't know what to put on your website. Todd has gone out of his way, making it easier. He enables you to craft your content and gives you tips and advice and a framework basically to put content on the website in the best possible way. If you're anything like me, a blank page is your absolute nemesis and having some guidance and pointers from somebody.

Been round this topic for years is really helpful. I hope that you enjoy the podcast. I am with Todd Jones. How are you doing today?

[00:02:40] Todd E. Jones: Not too bad. Have a good conversation with you before we ever started.

[00:02:44] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. This is often the case actually. When people record podcasts, you have this sort of like fake introduction.

Don't you? Where you say, hello, Todd, how are you and Todd replies? And actually what's going on in the background is probably about a 50 minute conversation about this, that, and the other beforehand. I think he's quite nice, but I suppose for the purposes of the audience it's nice to introduce you saying that.

Do you want to just spend a moment or two introducing yourself, perhaps tell us a little bit. How you've come to be on the podcast today. What your relationship is with WordPress, perhaps where you are and things like that.

[00:03:16] Todd E. Jones: I live in Conway, Arkansas. Claim to fame would be Scottie Pippin or the Chicago bulls who went to college at university of central Arkansas here.

And Chris Allen, who I think is a year six winner of the American idol. So that's where I live. I've lived here since 2010 and. So WordPress, I started using WordPress back in ah, oh 7 0 8, somewhere in that neighborhood actually was on podcasts with Joe Howard a few weeks ago. And talking a little bit about that.

I was running a college football and football blog and that's when I started using WordPress and realized I could set these sites up for people. And I sold a few here and there. Got into the development game. But realize that for a while, that I'm really more of a content person and went down that I still build sites, but I don't actively go out and find people to build sites for.

But anyway, I felt like, the content side was more my game and I've been pursuing that ever since, including the copyright. Those kinds

[00:04:32] Nathan Wrigley: of things. W when you say content, do you mean basically, are we talking text or are you into sort of other things like video creation and image creation and things as

[00:04:43] Todd E. Jones: well?

It's a very good question because I've been thinking I need to do a a copycat show about content versus copy whatnot. When I'm referring to content, I'm really referring more to the tech side of things that being said yes, I've gotten into podcasting a little bit recently and some video at the, I do think it's all part of content.

Actually, there's a guy on Twitter. I follow me, Ross Simmons the coolest, cool thinks his Twitter handle and he's a. At the top of a company called foundation Nique, and they're a content marketing company and he talks about remixing and redistribution content. It's basically repurposing.

So I really, the way I really see content is, at your bait, your article, this is not always the case, but your article serves as the base. And then you remix. That means you can make little videos, little audio sessions. Whatever kind of repurpose it and then use those in other channels to bring back to your site.

I don't know. That's how I see constant. I do see content holistically. But for me, I guess when I started going down the content route, it was more. Writing articles and then writing a web pages and that kind of thing.

[00:06:08] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it feels to me like if you're the age that you and I both are told, we let's not go into that, but the age that we are, then that is what the internet was.

And I grew up with the internet, if you like. I was already an adult by the time the internet came along. But when the internet came along, it was largely a thing for. Text and I would read things and I would go and Google things and read articles about things, but it does occur to me that my children their experience of the internet is really different.

They are consuming a lot more video than I do. It's just, that's the default, they're sharing social media stuff. They're watching videos, YouTube channels have replaced television channels and audio things like podcasts and music and so on is all a big part of it. I think you're right to make that.

[00:07:01] Todd E. Jones: I don't know about you, Nathan and I relive my childhood a little bit mighty teens with videos on YouTube of music. I listen to in the eighties, watching those videos that I used to watch on MTV or VH1 or whatever, back in the day, I relive my youth a little bit doing that. I, I have YouTube on a whole lot, which is really weird cause I paid for the Spotify, but I'm like, I really need to transfer some because YouTube has this AI, which.

Tastes you down. Oh, you listen to this. You probably like this. I'm like, oh, I forgot about that song. I really liked that song back in 1987, need that's by Spotify. Yeah,

[00:07:42] Nathan Wrigley: I know exactly what you mean, but your say, but your main focus, what you're doing today on the podcast is more to do with written content because we're talking about something called the website, copy framework.

Forgive me if I get this URL wrong. I think this is probably the best URL for it. If you go to Todd's website, which is copy flights.com and then forward. W C F website copy frameworks. That's the one main landing page. Yeah. Perfect. Then you'll be able to see what it's about. So if you're, if you're near a computer, you might just want to pause the recording for a moment.

Go over to that. Copy flight.com forward slash w C F before we get into the actual copy framework itself. I'm curious to know how it is that you ended up. Deciding that this needed to be built. Is the, was there like a pressing need that occurred to you in the work that you were doing around making websites?

Did somebody come up to you and suggest that this was a good day or did it just pop into your head and how did the whole evolution of it occur?

[00:08:47] Todd E. Jones: I don't want move it's 2000, 19 or 19, and Lee Jackson had his one, And he's done it a couple of times. The, I don't know if you call it a summit agency trailblazer, I think, yeah.

Agency trailblazers summit. And so I created a checklist or something. I don't remember what I checked, created something as a giveaway for something that anyway, I leave, it was nice and it allowed me to do that. And so people downloaded it. And I don't know if it was the whole thing. Probably not everything you get in the website copy framework, but a fraction of it, some stuff.

If that'd be helpful and I get a message from Paul Lacey, he goes, man, this is really good. You should be charging for this. I'm like what? And he said, yeah, I use this and not charge a consultancy fee to take a client through it, to help them write their copy oh, okay. And so what I had done is basically create this for myself originally.

Went down the whole copywriting rabbit hole probably in 16, 17 spent a lot of time in the Copyhackers community. Joanna Wiebe. If you're familiar with copy hackers and just, and some of her disciples, that's what I call them disciples where people connected her and just learn a ton about writing homepages about pages and about.

Not very good at either of those, but I learned a lot about maybe best practices I should say. And so, and then I did a few copywriting projects for some people, and I basically created this as a process for myself. And so basically after what Paul said, it was like, So kind of, with the encouragement of my tribe, people like the vendor and Rob Karen's and Ryan Waterbury even more Cohen who did a lot of design for me for this like I went ahead and put this together in a little more cohesive package.

And uploaded it to Gumroad and sold a few. The original one was just playing, this is how, download this bunch of check sheets check worksheets, checklist kind of thing. And then I said, if consultants use this, maybe they would like to put their own logo on it. Okay. Use it over and over for consulting.

So I did a white label version, which is basically all the chicks. All the worksheets are in Google documents, so you can download it and customize it, how you want, put your logo on it and whatnot. So that's really we, I know we were talking before the break and I can't, I knew I'd lose my train of thought.

I should've wrote it down, but web writing is a. Just in doing like writing a blog. And so there's a lot of things I learned from, from hanging around the Copyhackers community about certain things, like for instance, and I don't know if this applies in every situation, but it's a good rule of thumb.

At the top of the homepage at the top of the, about page, the top of any page, you should have a unique value proposition. At least to some extent, and that's a whole nother thing going down the row, going down the road of unique value propositions. Those are, that can be complex and so forth. But that's what they, Joanna talks about it.

And if you go to CXL people, aha. He'll talk about that. Having a unique value proposition. Basically what I say is, there's two things I would say you should have the top of your homepage. One is be very clear about who you are and what you do. Always default to that. People tend to get clever with their homepage and you don't understand what they mean.

It's almost like insider information. So if you're a visitor comes and they don't know what you're talking about. I see that a lot with agencies, websites, they get real clever. First-line and it's and don't know what you're doing here. Really don't know what you're doing. So be very clear about who you are and what you do.

And if you can your number one desired outcome that you offer. So that is another way of saying unique value proposition or a benefit. But I like the word desired outcome. I got that phrase from, Talia Wolf. Who's a conversion. Optimizing, I call her the CRO queen. But I liked that term desired outcome because it really was like, okay, yeah, this is the desired outcome, is the desired outcome that you're actually building a website or is the desired outcome.

You're building a platform that will bring customers in. And drive revenue and sales, think about, but what is that one number one benefit. So on your home page, that's what you should be looking the top. But I always say declared a default to being really clear instead of being

[00:14:23] Nathan Wrigley: clever.

Yeah. So is the, is the premise of the website copy framework? Is it to, to give guidance? Okay, let me rewind that a little. I'm looking at a blank page. One of my jobs as the person building the website is to fill some copy. Now it may be that the client are gonna then fill that Loram up.

But quite often, they'll come to you and say, can you just fill it up? And you've got the writer's block. You don't know what to do. You've got this blank sheet staring at you and you don't know what to put in. You don't know the right language to use. You don't know how. Impactful with the language that you're using or to use the right tone and to be as brief as possible, but as powerful as possible is it is the idea behind the website copy framework to, to assist me with the sort of writer's block and get me on the right lines?

Or is it more of a, okay, copy paste this and swap, swap out the name of the company, your company company. The placeholder in here. Yeah, I

[00:15:29] Todd E. Jones: don't, I don't think you could really do copy paste too well, and I don't th the website copy framework is not really a copy paste. It's more of helping you create the building blocks.

You need to assemble your Lego building. And I think Eugene Schwartz is supposed to have said copy as assembled or something like that is not written. It's assembled. So much truth in that statement. So I th I think it's hard. I kinda cringed at copy templates a little bit because no businesses the same, no audiences, the same.

It, this, this one reason they actually did a competent show. And this was like, when you see someone's still someone's else's content, which happens in our, in the WordPress community, I've seen more than one person Hey, they stole my everything. Like what. Joke's on them. Cause you're talking about is not theirs.

I mean, it doesn't make anybody feel better. I know that it makes you mad when that happens, but there's no creativity in that. There's no research in that. So website copy framework, I do like it, I think most everybody's similar Legos, right? You're a build a Lego structure.

You have to have all these blocks. Website copy framework is more like that. It's okay, what is your unique value proposition? Let's go through that. How are some ways you can write to unique value proposition? Here, you here are some formulas you can use to write your web, your unique value proposition.

Is this good for your home or about pages, maybe? What are the benefits that you have? You probably know what the features of what you do are let's start. What are the benefits? A lot of miss, a lot of sites I see on the homepage, they do not mention their benefits. I see it a lot with agencies.

They list all these things, this multigrid thing of all these different features. What does that mean? I come to you, I don't know anything about your world, but I do know about my world. What does it mean that why does it matter that my website is blazing? That. Who cares? What does that mean?

You know, work that out for them, give them the benefit. We know that one user don't want to wait five seconds for something to load. That's the first thing, and we know what winter solder information, I guess we know that Google likes faster websites. So it definitely will help with. With your relationship with Google, I guess that's people will say it ranks higher.

There's a lot of variables that go in with a website ranking higher, but speed is one of them. We know that. You know, when you start thinking about the benefit of the features that people list on your site, and, that's a, that's a web dizzy, think about that for any business. I use chiropractors, the example in the website copy framework, because I have a chiropractor, keeps me going, Nazi any eight.

I had more than one surgery, but one of them was for a fuse disc in my neck. So I have to go to the chiropractor to keep that flexibility above and below the fused, this I mean, there's other reasons too, but that's one of the big reasons right there. But I use example, the chiropractor. Think about the weekend warrior, our friend, Cameron Jones, down Australia.

He's a footballer and Australian rules, not American or UK. He's a footballer, so he's got some cool pictures of him jump. He jumps really high by the way, but. He's a weekend warrior right now. I don't know if he gets paid to do that, but how does he keep that? If he has a back problem after one of those matches you go to the chiropractor, the Gar practor gets, you worked out and he can play the next week.

You see what I'm saying? Yep. So the chiropractor, the benefit of the chiropractor is not cracking bones or whatever. It's to make sure that you can still do what you love on the weekend. In Arkansas, there's a lot of hunting and fishing. Obviously we have other things that people like to do. We have soccer players here too, by the way.

We have a minor league soccer team in Laura. I was just, I was telling you before we got on, so here, I'm going to get my wrestling connection into this podcast. I was watching the AEW last night, the women's champion for the aide. Is a dentist. So I kid you not. And she uses it in persona.

Her name is Britt baker, D M D. They do it like that and everything. D M D. So by day, she's fixing teeth at night, she's breaking jaws. My dentist can beat up your dentists, but anyway but for her to keep wrestling, I'm sure she has to do she may have to go to a chiropractor. I have no idea.

Many of us, especially is as long as we're able to have something we like to do on the weekend, chiropractor keeps us going. I'm just using that as an example, but it's making sure you get the benefits on that home page. I'm not saying don't put features on there. I'm just saying, don't lead with features, but definitely lead with benefits.

So that's one example, but the frame. And the worksheet will help you go through that, figuring out what your benefits.

[00:21:25] Nathan Wrigley: Is it, is it like a a page by page template or watching your video? You've obviously got a lot of materials in there. I think you say it runs like a hundred pages and 30 something thousand words.

Does it, is that the idea then you're sort dissecting the business bit by bit trying to eke out what a typical sales type website would need on it in order to be successful in eking, getting out of the people who are reading the website copy framework, how they might go about this and the pitfalls to avoid.

[00:22:03] Todd E. Jones: Yeah. You're going to go through the worksheets to figure out things like what is my unique value proposition? What are the benefits that I offer? And then I do have, for lack of a better term, I'm not call it a formula or a template. I don't like to use the word template. So I like framework actually better for the home in the about page.

And even for the service or product page, depending on what you know, what your main thing is. And each, each of those will have elements that you need to have and like benefits and value proposition are two things that you'll have a worksheet for to help you walk through that. And then you'll begin to assemble those on each page.

Yeah, and that actually, here's the thing Nathan over the last few years and what I've done, I recommend you start with the about page first. Yeah, well, so I have this conversation with Bob done a lot because there are some people in the WordPress community do not have one. But the thing is everything you need for the other pages you will come up with for the about page.

And if you're already a little squeamish about writing to begin with, get it out of the way, get out of the way first. But I recommend starting with the about page first. There's also a check a worksheet for helping you find your story and which is crucial for the about page. Yeah, so the worksheets will help you create the building blocks that you need to write these pages.

And I used to remember Joanna saying Joanna Wiebe saying. Writer's block is just, how does she put it? I quoted in the framework in the little intro writer's block is just like a research or something like that. Basically what she's saying is not need to, the reason you have writer's block is because you don't know what you need.

And that's what the website copy framework helps with.


[00:24:12] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. That's a really good point actually, because just knowing what it is, What works best if it goes in this spot, I think is often the right table. Yeah.

[00:24:23] Todd E. Jones: And what I'll do a lot of times is I'll just open a new Google doc and I'll put all those elements in there as headers, whatever.

Then I start working on each section okay, here's the hero section? What do I put there? Okay. Yeah. This is my value proposition. Here's my call to action. That kind

[00:24:42] Nathan Wrigley: of thing. What sort of sections is it divided up into on the YouTube video that you've got on the as the demo on the webpage you can clearly see it's divided up into, it looks to be about 10 different sections.

You just highlight to us what those different aspects are that you deal with in each of your sections.

[00:25:04] Todd E. Jones: So there's a main, I guess the only thing I know to do is a call or an ebook. More help me with that. But if. The home about and the service page framework and a little bit of instructions about each one.

So let's see the you'll have a getting started. You remember when we used to download software back in the day and there would always be a, this read me. Yes. That's kind how I determined. I call it the, read me first, it's a, it's a PDF, so those are PDF. And it, it gives you some preface instructions and those kinds of things.

And I numbered them actually. Got the ideal from Carrie deals. He said, Hey, I would recommend, I let her see it. And she said, I would recommend number them like in the order that they should go. It was like, oh, okay. That's a good idea. So you had the read me first and then the first one is a value proposition worksheet.

The second one is the benefits worksheet. So those are two, one is helps you figure out what that value proposition in the second one's help you figure out the benefits. The third one is the home page copy framework, which is a little, they're all PDF, so you can call it a little ebook.

Yeah. It's basically a, I had written an article. On the blog and I basically put it all in one place for you. So you know what, I'm not telling you to go back and read it on blog. There it is in a PDF form. I use designer remember that software. I think I got it as a deal off of AppSumo and yeah, I was able to do everything, but the one that more did, I was able to use the designer for that.

So I thought that was cool. You've so you've got the website. Copy, Frank. Or the homepage copy framework is number three, which kind of tells you. What each section and kind of breaks it down. And then the fourth one is actually the blog post that I repurposed, as I think about for the website copy framework five is the company story worksheet.

I designed that a long time ago and may update it probably we'll update it in the next year. But it helps you work through things. That stories about, the story of your company. I've got so much more I can do with that. I need to update that, but anyway then I have this kind of fundamentals of crafting a story.

I think that is taken from a blog as well. That's number six, number seven is the about page framework. So if I redid this, I would tell you to do that first. It needs to be updated, but that's like, okay, this is what this is what the about page framework is the kind of breaks down each session section.

And then number eight is the e-book based on the article. That I wrote about

[00:28:04] Nathan Wrigley: pages. So each of them is atomic. It stands by itself and you can have a look at them and, but you'd probably recommend everybody have a go at the about us one first.

[00:28:15] Todd E. Jones: Yeah. I think if I did now, I would say, I mean, it's just, once you go through that process, it will then feed into the home page.

If you do the home page first, you still have stuff to do for the about page. So you, I you can, I did it in an order which may Senate, since at the time I would just, I need the, I haven't had the opportunity. I need to make some updates to it, but anybody who buys it, if I do an update, the update will automatically be uploaded and you'll get that comes out.

[00:28:53] Nathan Wrigley: So who ideally, would you say is your target audience? Is this something that you would. You mentioned Paul Lacey saying this would be great as a kind of white label deal or something. Is that like a really good use of it? You kind of sell it on if you like, you've, you've just built a website, you happy with it, but there's obviously virtually no content.

It looks fine. But the contents nonsenses a best placeholder text. Would you be passing this document on to people or is it something that you as. Website professional, a better off trying to sell as a service so that you can put the copy in and make yourself the professional there is, do both work is the one that you prefer.

[00:29:37] Todd E. Jones: Yeah, I think so. I think so the first way that Paul used it was he charged a consultancy fee because, I had, he had a client was like, I really don't know what the right. Okay. And he went through all of this. Before it was ever sold. I, and he charged a pretty good fee to help them, me.

It's a really I think it's great for consultants. I have, I had somebody to buy it, to use in her course I have mostly, everybody's been a consultant like a web consultant, either they're build websites for people or they run an agency or whatever. I assume that most of them are, I think about what Jason Vance said to me.

I don't know if Jason, but he said he gave it to the client and they said they went from, I don't know what to say to, oh, now I can do this. Yeah. You know, just cause it kinda gives you a bit of a blueprint. I think a consultant can use. To help their client who doesn't know what the right on the page.

And I would charge for it. Don't do it for free unless you roll it into your overall cost, which is fine. I know some agencies will automatically include content in the process and they charge for it. So you're still going to need this information. If you were going to do the content yourself, the copy yourself, because I've talked to people that say, I don't do projects anymore unless I do the copy.

Okay. You still got to, do you still got to get this information? This is not, this is not groundbreaking stuff, right? I'm not telling anything secret. If you studied all copywriting, you'd probably come up with something very similar. In fact, Nathan, a conversion copywriter friend of mine bought the white label.

Hers. To use, so that tells you something right there. She tweaked it a little bit for her own purposes, but that's that tells you that is not groundbreaking stuff. Yeah. You're going to need these, this information to do these sections on these pages. So if you do the copy yourself as an agency I, I can definitely see why.

It's hard to get that content from people cause they don't know what to say. So we, baby, you got a writer on staff or you contract with a writer. I know a number of agencies do that. Just walk them through the, the, website copy framework and get that information using the check, the worksheets, and then you can write it.

That's one way you use it. The other way courses. More as a consulting session. I don't know what the right. Let's talk about it. I've got this thing here. I've got this product and let's fire up zoom and go through it and can do that. So I did hope to someday that would be something for average business owners.

They severely underestimate what they have to do with content and because. All of these platforms, we're, we're in the WordPress space, we, you know, we all know there's stuff outside of WordPress, right? Yep. They all advertise how it easy is to set up a website. Sure. It's easy to set up a website.

You go in, you choose a template and you hit, install and you've got a website, but it's a shell. You and I you're not is. What are you going to say in there? That part is the heart. That's a sticking point for a regular everyday business. So it, that's, that's the way. Helping their everyday business.

So I was hoping one day that it would be something for the average person. You may have a client that they come to you, they can't afford you. And so they're going to use wordpress.com or Squarespace or web flow or something. Great. You send them with your blessing, come back when you have a budget and you want us to do more?

Oh. But if you're having trouble. With copy. I recommend, this product that can help you

[00:34:02] Nathan Wrigley: out. Yeah. I think a lot of these ideas, they don't have to be ingenious to be worthwhile. It doesn't have to be groundbreaking stuff, but the fact that you've packaged it all up into one handy thing that you can hold in your hand or download as a PDF and read it on your screen and you've just taken the trouble to do it.

There's value in that. Honestly, writing text as a blog post because you know what the blog post is pretty straightforward because you've obviously sat down to write a blog post, or at least it typically is for me, I only write things that I've either covered or something that I'm interested in writing.

So I know what I want to go up, but. Copy for our website is really hard because the language has got to be right. If you're in a particular industry, you've got to use all the vernacular of that industry and get everything correct. And I do find that difficult. And as you said, maybe individually, each of these components is nothing groundbreaking and you didn't maybe make a ton of it up originally you've taken ideas and coalesced them that doesn't stop it being valuable.

And the fact that it's all in one handy place is great. Really great. The, I noticed on your website, you've got it in two flavors. You've got the business owner's flavor and you've got the consultants flavor. What, what, what's the difference there?

[00:35:21] Todd E. Jones: Okay. One is I think I say website copy frame framework for agencies.

That's the white label. Yep. So you know, it's a little more expensive and so. You, you, you buy that and you get the worksheets that you can brand yourself and that kind of thing. And the other one is, would be more for, your everyday business, but that doesn't mean a consultant can't buy and use it.

I have had some that buy this plain one and use it, which you can do, especially if you're doing like consulting sessions, but if you want to put. What is, Paul's a Dickie studio. Birds. Okay. So if you want to put Dicky bird, studio and logo on, on there, then you buy the white label and you can reuse it

[00:36:09] Nathan Wrigley: that I see.

Yeah. Okay. So you can distribute it to all of your clients and make out, like it's something that you created in the first

[00:36:17] Todd E. Jones: place. Yeah. And not have other ideas in the back of mine. I haven't been able to execute in the last year. I have thought about doing some training videos, which. I think I could just add to the gum road, which is cool.

I have another friend who's done something summer and he's added some videos. And so I'm like, okay, I can do that too. And then I also have thought about because so many of our friends are getting to the Woss w a S big thing. So ideally if I could, link our S my hands, you'd have some kind of.

SAS where people can log in, get all this information done and then download it or whatever. And then from there create their content. That might be one idea as well. So it would be cool to, to, cause I know at least two people who are doing. Going to do sat well, one has already started and the other one is on the brink of starting up their own last, website as a service for a particular niche.

Thing about those you have to be careful. I think the F the framework is good because it gives you the flexibility for any niche. But it's not really a copy and paste thing, so you should be able to use it. Service industry or whatever. But you do have to pay attention each initiative each and each niche as hard to say is a little bit unique.

But it's definitely a building block, a framework for writing that out. And so it would be kinda cool if I could do a, some kind of a sad. At least to go, oh, in there and you got video and then here's the updated work. She, you fill the worksheet out and you submit it and it gathers all that information.

And you just, at the end, you download it. And there's a, there's a term. This is the light version of this. Key messaging copy framework, I think is what people call it something different, but I tend to call it a a messaging compass. And basically what you're doing with website copy framework is creating your messaging compass.

Which, you when you think about it, yes, it's going to help you write messaging for your website, but you can also use. On your social media channels, some of this on your social media channels as well. But key message, copy framework. A copywriter did that, and it's a document you download and it has all of this information is great.

When you have a team setting. You're like what is our, what are our benefits? We'll go to the key message. Copy framework. The result of the website copy framework, in my opinion, is you can create that document. As a, as a messaging compass, I actually did a training with a themes earlier this year, and that's what I called it.

A messaging COMPAS. Cause in my mind, when you do this, you have the tip of the. For the compass pointing north, you've got that. You there's a lot more, you can add to it, but you definitely have the tip of the arrow for the compass pointing north.

[00:39:53] Nathan Wrigley: The framework is available, like we said, at copy flight.com.

But if if anybody's interested and they want to contact you, what would be the best way of getting in touch with you personally told Twitter,

[00:40:08] Todd E. Jones: Facebook and LinkedIn. As far as social media goes, T Jones was my Twitter. Redneck coffee stop. Yes, that's what I call it. Copyblogger.com. The main email I use is the copy flat [email protected]

Or you can just [email protected] It did just redirects to that. If you'd already known. Feel free to just ping me on Facebook, easily respond to that.

[00:40:41] Nathan Wrigley: If you're, if you're in the need of copy writing assistance and you want to help your clients with that as well as perhaps help yourself go check it out.

One more time. Copy flight.com forward slash w C F standing for website copy framework. Do you know, is there anything you think we missed before we wrap it up?

[00:40:59] Todd E. Jones: Goodness. You know, you did a very thorough job.

[00:41:05] Nathan Wrigley: It wasn't me. It was all you. If that's the case, if there's nothing else to be said, we'll we'll knock it on the head there.

And I'll just say, Todd, thanks for talking to us on the podcast today.

[00:41:16] Todd E. Jones: It was a blast.

[00:41:17] Nathan Wrigley: I hope that you enjoyed the podcast today. Very nice to have Todd E Jones on talking all about copy flight and ways in which his expertise can help you. If you've got problems, writing your copy. As we said, go to copy flight.com and you'll be able to see all of the great things that he's got on offer.

One last reminder. If you're in a miasma about black Friday deals in the WordPress space, we have a solution for you. WP Builds.com forward slash black, a searchable and filterable list of well over 200 WordPress products. If you're in the market for something this week, and you're looking to buy something, the chances are, if it's WordPress related, it will be on that page.

Go there and use the yellow button to search and filter. And as I said at the top of the show, if you do use those links, you may vary. A reward us with a coffee. Thank you very much to anybody that does it. WP Builds.com forward slash. I will be back next week, chatting to David Wamsley. It will be a discussion episode.

And so we would really appreciate it. If you come back podcasts every Thursday, 1:00 PM, UK time and the, this week in WordPress show, which is on every Monday, 2:00 PM, UK time, WP Builds.com forward slash. If you fancy subscribing hit our subscribe link at the top of the website, but for now, I'm going to feed in some cheesy music and say, bye-bye for now.

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