This Week in WordPress #290

[00:00:04] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for this week in WordPress episode number 290, entitled howdy, howzit, hello. It was recorded on Monday the 18th of March, 2024. My name's Nathan Wrigley and I'll be joined by three fabulous guests today. My co-host is Michelle Frechette and the guests are Cami McNamara and Tim Nash.

It's a WordPress podcast we talk about WordPress. We get into all of the bits and pieces in the 6.5 update, which is coming fairly soon. What do our panelists and co-hosts enjoy.

There's quite a lot of events. There is the WP Engine DECODE event coming up. Plus we get into a lot of events happening in the UK, the return of some events to live and in-person after the lull of the pandemic. There's also talk about WordCamp Asia, and where that is as well as where state of the word is going to be held at the end of this year.

There's an article by Leslie Sim all about the oxygen mask approach to open source. It's an interesting position on the, how much time you should give over to open source projects, and how forgiving you should be of yourself when you cannot contribute time.

WP Cloud is a hosting environment, which wordpress.com is organizing, and it looks like Bluehost have jumped on board, and are offering something to the community, which they claim will be really reliable and hopefully affordable.

We also get into the scale consortium. We talk about democratizing publishing in WordPress, and also about the fact that Automattic seem to be doubling down on developer content.

Finally, we get into a few bits and pieces that the guests have contributed. And it's all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

This episode of the WP Bills podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of manage WordPress hosting That includes free domain SSL and 24 7 support. Bundle that with the hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients and get 30% of new purchases.

Find out more at Go me. Forward slash WP builds.

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Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello. Hi there. Good morning. Good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Oh, thank you. I got a wave from everybody on the panel today. that was nice. That was, you said hello three times, so Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Oh, I see. Do you know why I do that? I do that 'cause the audio takes about five seconds to just normalize.

So I, that is my attempt to, waste a bit of time to, to organize it. Anyway, there we go. We're on episode number 290 of this week in WordPress. We had a bit of a hiatus last week. We took some time off because, I was away. maybe we'll hear about that in a moment. We could, Michelle and I could certainly chat about that, probably for the whole 90 minutes.

but just about the food alone. Yeah, just the food. Oh, yeah. Ooh, that was amazing. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. that was Michelle Ette. Michelle Ette is the co-host of this show. She comes on so frequently along with some other guests that, that she's been designated co-hosts for the longest time.

I keep calling her a guest. I have to, properly manage myself and, introduce Michelle as a co-host. How are you doing, Michelle? I am much better this week. Thank you. How are you? I am good. You have been poorly by all accounts, have come out of the, come outta the back of something. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:10] Michelle Frechette: Yeah. So not Covid, but yeah, still not good. Okay. I'm very, pleased that you've joined us today. I'm gonna do the bio for each of our three guests. Michelle Frechette is the Director of Community Engagement for Stellar WP at Liquid Web. In addition to the work there, Michelle is the podcast [email protected].

[00:04:28] Nathan Wrigley: Co-founder of underrepresented in tech.com, creator of WP Career pages, the president of the board for Big Orange heart.org, director of Community Relations and contr. Is this still true? you have,

[00:04:43] Michelle Frechette: my old bio, I have your old bio. the

[00:04:46] Nathan Wrigley: exec, what are you now you the executive director.

[00:04:49] Michelle Frechette: Of post status? Yes.

[00:04:50] Nathan Wrigley: Of post status. So I'll just, offend that. So there we go. The old version was that. The new version is executive [email protected]. Bravo, author, business coach and frequent organizer and speaker at WordPress events. She lives side of Rochester, New York, where she takes nature photography.

And, you can find out more on her personal website, which is Meet Michelle online. Thank you, Michelle for joining us. I really appreciate it. I hope you managed to get through it again and that you're well enough. There is Cami. It's four in the morning for Cammi or something like that. No,

[00:05:28] Cami MacNamara: it's seven.

It's not that bad,

[00:05:30] Nathan Wrigley: so that's pretty bad. if you were to encounter me at seven in the morning, nothing, would be possible. but Cammy's joining us, I don't know. This has gotta be like half dozen times or something. You've certainly been on plenty of times before and I appreciate your return.

Cammi mc Cami McNamara. Ah. Find it that hard to say. AKA Webc Camie. Very cool. Yeah, I love that. Easy. Easy to do that. Yeah. Easy to Remember has been designing websites since Seattle, since 2002. In addition to running her business, she moderates the Web Camie Cafe Facebook group for web designers. Has a weekly podcast, WEBC Camie podcast, of course.

and is the author of a weekly newsletter focused on good habit for web designers, which I think is what we're gonna talk about later. Yes. As well. Is that's the same one. That's it. Okay. So we'll wait, we'll hold back the URL, but it's got something to do with habits. Habits for up. We'll find out more.

And of course, we're joined by the, by the fabulous Tim Nash. Not far from me. I could probably throw a rock and it wouldn't get anywhere near him, but, I could still throw a rock, certainly closer than, closer than we, webcam. And Michelle, you're in, where are you? You are Yorkshire, west Yorkshire.

You are in North Yorkshire, Dale, are you really? I didn't realize that. I'm also in North Yorkshire. So North Yorkshire. North

[00:06:50] Tim Nash: Yorks a very, for any, for anybody who's not in the uk, we're talking about very small places that

[00:06:56] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, in the UK it's the biggest of all the places, at least in, at least in England.

Anyway, there's Tim. That's Tim Nash. He is a professional doom speaker at I love this WordPress security and a WordPress security consultant who's once described as not scare as, not as scary as I thought you were. Still pretty scary though. he helps organize and improve the security of people's websites through site and code reviews.

He's also got workshop, which we'll talk about later as well. You can find out more about him and subscribe to his. According to one Nathan Wrigley. All right. Newsletter. Did I really say that?

I'm so sorry. That's really bad. but you can find it at Tim Nash, your co uk and it's, all right. Tim Nash

[00:07:48] Michelle Frechette: declared mediocre by Nathan Wrigley.

[00:07:52] Nathan Wrigley: It's reasonable. There are some words in there, I apologize, that was, I

[00:07:58] Michelle Frechette: write my, bio for you because it's more delightful

[00:08:01] Nathan Wrigley: at the workshop that Tim's doing.

if it's, if a comment comes in from Twitch, it's you usually junk, as is that particular comment. But there's no way for me to avoid it. I don dunno if you can see that on your screens, but it's, there's something weird in mine. So let's do the sensible comments. We always get a comment from, Peter Ingersol.

He joins us every week to give us the lowdown on the weather in Connecticut, and this week is no different. He says, good morning. It's six degrees 10th grade, 43 degrees Fahrenheit under partly sunny skies. I think we've got it better than you. I think it's about 14 degrees centigrade here. There are breaks in the cloud.

so there we go. Connecticut versus North Yorkshire. And Babs joining us says, good afternoon from a cloudy Ely, in the uk. Hey Babs, Barbara, how are you doing? Nice to have you with us. Few bits of housekeeping then, The first thing to say is this show is so much better. when there are people that participate, like Barbara and Peter did, it really does drive the conversation forward.

I really like it. And the best way, to make that happen probably is to go to this url, wp builds.com/live. that is an embedded YouTube chat, so you have to be logged into Google. That's probably the easiest way I imagine a lot of people have Google accounts. The other alternative though, is if you actually go to that page and look at the video, in the top right is a little black button, I believe it says live chat.

You can invoke that and you don't need to be logged into anything. You just type in your name and you're off to the races. So if you don't fancy coming to us from Google, that's fine. You can do it that way. The other way is Facebook. If you're in a Facebook property and you see this video, you can do that as well.

But there is one little caveat. You have to go to Wave, video Live, sorry, slash lives slash Facebook. Otherwise, you come through all anonymous. okay. There you go. And, and some blatant advertising. oh. No, it's not, that's not a live comment. that's something that I did. That's hysterical.

There was a, comment that I wrote for myself when I last did something with Peach and Mary. It was at the URL for her, course. And I thought that she'd just dropped in and just put the URL for her course in, whereas in fact, it was me, Elliot Richmond joining us from, not Richmond, he's joining us from Cheltham.

Thank you very much indeed. That's it. That's all the housekeeping. Nathan,

[00:10:28] Tim Nash: what is peach's course? You haven't put a the UL up.

[00:10:31] Nathan Wrigley: Shall I do it quickly while she's not here? Let no, you didn't half sold it for her. Let's do it. I don't even know if it, maybe it's over. but here it is. Look, the accessibility part, the accessible typography masterclass.

If you use the code WP be you get something off and you go to peach andary dot thrive cart.com/atm. So thanks Tim. we've just driven a little bit of traffic her way, I hope. Okey dokey. Let's put the screen on and I'll do a tiny bit of self-promotion. I hope that's all right. This is our website.

We have a new sponsor. I love it when we get a new sponsor. It's fabulous. It really does help keep the podcast going. You can imagine something like podcasting and what have you, is often I think, reliant on, sponsorship. And so we've been lucky enough to have GoDaddy Pro as one of our sponsors For the longest time, I think we're.

Very well. I think we're over the two year mark anyway, so appreciate everything that they've done for us in that time. But I'm happy to add OTT into that as well. So OTT will be sponsoring us for the next few weeks. And head over to GoDaddy Pro, Google that, or Google ott. OTT obviously do translations and I've said many, times what GoDaddy Pro do.

But I appreciate their, their keeping the lights on over here. That's amazing. If you fancy subscribing to what we do, stick your email in there and I'll, I will batter you with emails every minute of the day. I won't, two a week. It's as many as you're gonna get. So there you go. You can do that.

This is what we've put out lately. if you go to WP Builds and then click this WP Builds podcast archive, this is the, this is the stuff that we've done. You can go and listen to those. We're on to episode number 364 at the moment, so check that out. won't do that. And also, I just want to keep droning on about this.

I've started a new podcast with the Traitorous, David Worsley. David contacted me in November and said, I'm not using WordPress anymore, so why should I be on a WordPress podcast? And I said, sling your Hook Worsley. and he did. And then about a week later, he contacted me and said, can we do another podcast?

I missed the chats that we have. and so we did, we started a new one called the No Script Show. You can find it at no script show. And it's all about building websites without a CMS. Shock horror, I know, but it's about getting back to web standards, CSS, all the fun stuff, which is happening in CSS. So this week's episode was about the exciting subject of container queries.

I know. Calm down. U three. It's, you can barely contain your excitement Container query. Very cool though. You should, if you don't dunno anything about them, you should listen. Anyway, that's what we're doing over there. No script.show. All right. That's all the promotional stuff out the way. Let's talk about something more impressive.

And McCarthy has written a book, it's called the WordPress 6.5 Source of Truth. And it is a truly, gigantic effort. We're not gonna even vaguely attempt to do it, but I'm, just gonna scroll through it like breakneck speed. oh wow. Wow. Anne. and she really has put together what can only be described as the source of truth for 6.5.

We've covered a few bits and pieces of WordPress 6.5, but I just wanted to hat tip to Anne. So if you really wanna know the weeds of everything, including links to every single possible thing, that's your article. it's called WordPress 6.5 Source of Truth. You can find it at Nomad blog, but just making it a little bit more manageable.

Careful there, Tim, I got the right word. I think this time, making it a little bit more manageable, we have Steven Lin over at the Make Sorry, make WordPress core blog. who has written something called WordPress 6.5 Field Guide and it paraphrases a lot of the new stuff, which is coming around in just a few short words.

And I wanted to know if any of you are following the project closely enough to have found something in 6.5 that you think is a bit cool. if you don't have anything, which is a bit cool, I'll just mention some of the things which I like, but I'm just gonna hand it over. Feel free to do the whole interrupting thing.

We'll figure out who can speak next at some point. But Michelle, Cami. Tim, anything in 6.5 that you like in the look of,

[00:14:48] Tim Nash: oh, the fun library. Yeah. You still have my answer. I have seen so many badly implemented fonts, and different ways that people would get font data and put it on their site. And it's a mess.

And it always is a mess. And, or there's, we're not gonna be able to fix the old themes, but it's nice to have this idea that there's a possibility of being able to put write down in reports. You could use the font library to do this and not this weird plugin that's been out date for that five years.

[00:15:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Or just going your own way. so the font library is a, UI. think media library. So you've got a separate section within the WordPress admin, which enables you to upload fonts and store them there and then access them, which is just really, cool. 'cause it, it's a part of every website But we just have nowhere to put them except, usually a little bit of, I don't know, PHP or a code snippet somewhere, or an, or a third party plugin, which might only allow you one free font. And then everything else you've gotta pay for if you want two fonts on your website or something weird like that.

but sorry, Cami, what was your reasoning for that as well I am, I'm just excited to have it organized, but I'm also intrigued by the A VIF image, capability. And I've seen a lot of testing where it's so compressed and speeding up websites and, I'm really interested in that.

So a VI, I can't remember where AIF comes from, but it's not a, it's not one of the Google ones, is it?

I think Web P is the Google one. whoever came up with iff though, it's a significantly smaller, I think as much as, I think, as much as 40%, something like that. So if you take a jpeg, like a, a photograph of a, I don't know, a field with trees in it and something, so in other words, it's not just like a blanket color, like a logo or something.

I think typically if you had that in Avis format and a JPEG format, you would, you would get yourself somewhere in the region of a 40% saving. and in the era of, trying to be, I don't know, a bit more sustainable and environmentally friendly, that seems like a, really good idea. Okay, great.

Thank you. Yeah, both of you. Anything else from Michelle?

[00:16:59] Michelle Frechette: I, want you to pull up on the screen though, some of the comments 'cause we're getting a lot of, I inputs from theAudience.

[00:17:05] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, lovely audience. Yeah. Okay. okay. First of all, hello Atif. Hello Nigel. Thank you for joining us. da So Courtney says, site icon from Settings General.

What does that mean? I

[00:17:20] Michelle Frechette: think it means it's no longer buried in the, customization.

[00:17:25] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, I get it right. Sorry, I thought I'd done something wrong with this live stream and she wanted me to correct something. okay. So no, you used to

[00:17:34] Michelle Frechette: have to go to customization and then it was favicon, it was site icon.

it's been all those things, but I think it's just a much. More direct setting if

Correct me if I'm wrong, Courtney, but I think that's what you're saying here,

[00:17:47] Nathan Wrigley: right? So an easier place to put the site icon. yeah, it was definitely great. Yeah. Sounds good. Okay. I'm just gonna keep going with these.

'cause it sounds like a few people are jumping in, editing a link after inserting it. So at the moment, if you chuck a link in, what happens? It just drops in as a link and then you have to click on it and open the little modal and then Yeah. I haven't

[00:18:10] Michelle Frechette: played with it yet.

[00:18:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And then edit it. Whereas from what Courtney's saying, you get the immediate capacity, you jump right into the editing interface, which is Yeah.

If, I've passed that right Courtney, then that's really great. Babs is saying, yeah, that's cool. I think she must be talking about the site. Logo. block bindings and custom fields. Yeah. So that's highlighted here in the, in the text here. and we talked about block bindings, the A PIA little while ago.

There's an awful lot in there. It's probably a little bit, difficult to get into, on this particular show, but, okay. That's fabulous as well. This thing at the top has got me interested, this interactivity. API, the ability, and we've talked about this a little bit as well, the ability for website, developers, to be able to update something on the page in real time based upon something else that happens on that page.

A good example being, I don't know, you click add to cart and then suddenly one item is in your cart and it just shows number one, and you add another thing, and number two comes up. So the ability to, make things like that happen and for it to be native, as opposed to built by every single developer that wants to have something like that functionality.

Yeah. Elliot

[00:19:20] Michelle Frechette: says he's write Elliot's writing a or creating a video on how to use it. So that's pretty. Oh,

[00:19:24] Nathan Wrigley: nice. Oh, Elliot, that's great. So the interactivity, API is obviously for you. Oh, Elliot, if you've got a use case for that, apart from the, sort of slightly basic one that I just described with a, like a shopping cart, then I'd be interested to hear that.

But also if you wanna drop me a line when you've done your, your video, I'd be. Really pleased to look at it and take a look at it. That'd be great. he says, da, Working on a WI video, creating it and how to use it. I'm loving the standardization. and then Babs is joining in again with the font thing.

Yeah. Okay. Font library. So it boils down in this article too. Interactivity API font library Block Bindings, API block, meta view Script Module, updates to the, to block hooks in 6.5. Whole bunch of performance improvements, which we'll get into in an article a little bit later from Pascal, Google's Pascal, who's on the performance team, unification of the site and post editors.

And then a bunch of miscellaneous changes. and you can see, as I said, the full detail over on S site. But, there you go. You've got the, paraphrased version feels like it's gonna be a big update. Feels like it might be one of those moments where you want to, take a, get yourself a cushion, calm yourself down before hitting, update, just make sure you've got some nice backups.

'cause there's quite a lot of things in there which are, gonna change the UI and what happens. I'm

[00:20:45] Tim Nash: not sure it's a big update for the end user.

[00:20:48] Nathan Wrigley: No, it's very

[00:20:50] Tim Nash: much a, it feels like one of those foundational updates that you're not really gonna see till the next core theme gets released and it has all of these features built into it.

Yeah. So you can start to understand it. but it's, I,

[00:21:05] Michelle Frechette: did get an email as a plugin owner in the repo saying, make sure your plugin's up to date so that when this new thing launches, you've tested it and it works like it's supposed to. It's, affecting people at that level, I think, more than it is, like you said, Tim, at the end user level.

But if you, do have a theme or plugin out there, you probably wanna make sure that it's compatible before people run into. incompatibility issues.

[00:21:29] Nathan Wrigley: I, feel that there's enough in there that the, that I'm getting, how to describe it. I subscribe to as many, WordPress RSS feeds as I can.

As you can imagine doing a show like this, it's nice on a Friday to just sift through a bunch of news stories and, but typically there's not quite as much around the 6.4 release or the 6.3 release, whatever this one seems to have got people writing. There's an awful lot of people, who have something to say about whether it's the front library or the block bindings API.

So anyway, there we go. Lots coming and thanks for your thoughts. Any other comments drop in? No. Okay. But keep the comments coming. Really appreciate it. Lots so far. I thought this one was really interesting. I being an English speaker, and I am completely monolingual. I can speak English and that is literally it.

I'm incapable in any other tongue. I ignore the whole, The, whole debate of, translating WordPress into other languages. I, it's always seems like somebody else's job. And that's

[00:22:36] Michelle Frechette: so, very American of you.

[00:22:38] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, but, we're both speaking the same language and it, seems to be the language, which by the, by Good Grace WordPress is written in at the beginning.

you can more or less guarantee that everything is gonna work in that case. But I came across this article, during the week, which I thought was interesting. It's, over at translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev. The link will be in the show notes as always, and it's to do with the 6.5 development.

And it's, it's a table which simply shows the, state of translations, all the strings that need to be translated, and how far through that process. It is now, I dunno how live this is. So in other words, if somebody was to translate something now and it would be marked off as complete, whether we'd see that if we refreshed.

But what surprised me was the state of the a hundred percent ness of it all. So for example, Welsh, Polish, German, I'm just gonna pick a few Romanian. English in Australia, Georgian, Turkish, Catlan, French, Spanish, Japanese, Dutch, Swedish, Galatian, and a bunch of others. They're all at a hundred percent ready.

Good to go. and then you start to go through again, a raft of languages, which are pegged at 90 high nineties. so Italian, Canadian, Canadian English, which is interesting. Do they just inject a oh, I'm so in trouble. dear. no comment. No comment. I actually did a, podcast this week with Sean, Hooper about, WordCamp a and we, jokingly refer to that quite a lot.

So I, feel I've got a, I've got a get outta jail free card there. uga, Albanian Persian, all at 99%. Taiwanese, Chinese, Portuguese, from Portugal, Norwegian. I could go on. The point here is I am really, pleasantly surprised. By how much of this, is ready to go out of the gate. I honestly thought that it would just be a chart with just loads and loads of, just much worse statistics, if So I dunno if you've got any comments on that. I just thought that was interesting.

[00:24:54] Michelle Frechette: I didn't realize that there was, that it was translated to American English and British English as well until the first time I logged into a big Orange Heart website and saw that it was called bin instead of trash.

And so even just little things like that make a big difference when you are coming from a different language center.

[00:25:13] Nathan Wrigley: I've got a comment here from Courtney. Can you contribute one hour to translating American English into the King's English? we, oh, I dunno, what the difference is in all honesty.

[00:25:28] Michelle Frechette: it's spin and trash.

[00:25:30] Tim Nash: it's the, it's not necessarily about changing individual words in translating, but the, poly got team are also doing things like. Translating phrases, we would never, we don't call things, something like a bit trash, we would refer to as the rubbish bin. So that, so you'll find that if you go and look in there, there'll be bin.

so it's stuff like that. And it's gonna be the same with Australia. They're gonna be going down. I'm, very, I'm a bit confused as to what the, the Canadian one, what that one string is that they haven't translated.

[00:26:06] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. '

[00:26:07] Tim Nash: cause most of the English ones will take the eng, the, original one, and push through.

So that means at some point that, up somehow a string has been left and it's that's a little bit confusing. The English one should all be at a hundred percent because it's, they're all the same unless you've changed something. Yeah. Similarly, let's all, that's why you get let's all P

[00:26:28] Michelle Frechette: Sean, everybody p Sean Hooper.

Yeah. Just, and ask him to look at that one translation. Let's just

[00:26:33] Nathan Wrigley: all write him a, an email in the biggest font that we can find and just write a, yeah. So absolutely fascinating. I, really, the only reason I raised it would be because of the fact that when I saw it, I was scrolling through and I was really surprised, at the amount that was sticking at this a hundred percent level.

And as Tim says, it is broadly speaking, I would imagine the same from one release to the other. So bin is gonna be bin in the UK forever and ever. And that's really never gonna change. It's probably not a lot of work to do there, but there's bound to be a whole bunch of new stuff, especially given all of the bits and pieces that we've talked about, new things dropping in.

But you can see, as we go down, we're still at sort of 75% for Upper Serbian, which is a language I've never even heard of, ESE Amharic. Tamil. I've heard of that one. Urdu, Kazak, Tibetan 54%. I was just astonished. And again, it's testament to the, the community nature of the project.

The fact that a lot of people chip in and do all of this work silently, for the benefit of everybody. just

[00:27:38] Tim Nash: Welsh is at the top of that list. Yeah. Why did Welsh get in number one Welsh speakers.

[00:27:43] Nathan Wrigley: What's going on there? Tim, have you got an insight? Why did Welsh get first? Just did. Yeah, I thought that was curious as well.

by the way, friendly web guy, says we're all talking rubbish. Nice. I like it. we should put it, I see

[00:27:59] Michelle Frechette: what you did there for the guy. Yeah.

[00:28:01] Nathan Wrigley: I'm, enjoying that. James is saying hi. greetings. that's, we, I dunno if anybody says that word anymore, but if that was in, in the place.

James does. Yeah, James does. Exactly. but we but you, we have howdy that's in our website. If you install a British English version of WordPress, you still get howdy. And it's no. So much so that there's a, plugin to remove the howdy. You can download a plugin just to get rid of Howdy.

Anyway, James, very nice to have you with us. And the same goes for Nigel.

[00:28:34] Michelle Frechette: Hello Nigel and James dropping

[00:28:36] Nathan Wrigley: in some comments. And Courtney, I will endeavor. I. To go and meet the king, learn his English, and then, then come and translate WordPress, fat chance. Okay. An event. Let's talk a little bit about events.

in fact, we've got a few nice bits of news to share, especially in the UK space about events, but there's an online event coming up. it, it is actually beginning tomorrow, so this is a late bit of news, but I want to draw attention to WP Engine's D Code event. I feel like this is probably being spoken on, all the major channels.

I've seen it dropping in all sorts of things, but it's beginning tomorrow is described as the virtual developer conference, and I'll just quote, it says, the power of the WordPress ecosystem only continues to go stronger and more flexible through the cutting edge tools designed to make it easier than ever to before to go from zero to one.

Seize the moment to shape what's next. Join us for decode, on the 19th and the 21st. And the, idea of the conference is to explore the next generation of WordPress. How to level up your WordPress development and collaboration workflows, emerging technologies. you've gotta have it, haven't you?

ai, if it wasn't in a conference these days, you've gotta ask questions, that are rapidly changing our day to day work and WP Engines product innovation announcements. Obviously they've got to have a little bit of that in there as well. Turns out somebody on our panel, if you go to their agenda page and you search for the word, oh, I don't know, Nash, let's go for that.

look, there's Tim's in a panel, on when are you on, Tim? What day are you on?

[00:30:12] Tim Nash: I, it gets repeated three times. Okay. So I'm on 1:00 PM it depends which, some of the time zones you're in, but it's basically on three times zone across the two days. So it's, so have you,

[00:30:24] Nathan Wrigley: recorded this panel already, your particular panel, or is it live and then they repeat it two more times?

I

[00:30:29] Tim Nash: don't spoil the magic, no. Yes. it is, we recorded last week. yeah.

Which would be very awkward as I'm actually giving a live presentation elsewhere at 1:00 PM on the, first,

[00:30:40] Nathan Wrigley: which we'll get to. Yeah. Being in two places at one time. You are her Mayan e Granger, from one Harry. Yeah. Yeah, I'll bet.

as luck could have it, we recorded this in May, 2022. Dear listener, we're just, we're amazing at predicting the future, but that's it. But you can see there's a great big, agenda here. if you go to the, agenda link at the top, you'll be able to see all that's going on. dates are 19th, and the 21st looks like there's a day off in between, but you can see the agenda.

Again, I'll put links in the show notes, which will come out tomorrow morning. But if you've fancy taken some time out of your busy day, then decode might be the place to go and catch. Tim, what is your panel about Tim? I should have asked that.

[00:31:25] Tim Nash: security, it's, something, it's security. How to improve security without sacrificing performance.

Okay. we talk about security, a bit of performance. AI is, crowbar in there as is required by law to all conferences, to have every panel and every, every talk must I am we, we dutifully do so as well.

[00:31:49] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. join Tim, and all the other fabulous speakers at that event and, Tina has joined us.

Hello Tina. And she tells us that in South Africa, you get how it, oh, that's the howdy. The howdy becomes how it, like how's it going kind of thing. Alright. that's pretty cool. Yeah, we just get howdy. But nobody says howdy here, but we still have it. Nevertheless. it's a pretty

[00:32:12] Michelle Frechette: Texas thing I think.

[00:32:13] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:32:15] Michelle Frechette: And I think, that's where certain somebody's from so that makes sense.

[00:32:18] Nathan Wrigley: It stays there, Okay. I dunno what we'd say. I think we'd just say hello, which is a bit bland, isn't it? Hello Nathan? It would say in my admin, okay. Let's move it on. Unless any, sorry, I should have said, does anybody want to contribute to the decode bit?

Cami, your Michelle.

[00:32:36] Michelle Frechette: I, it's, exciting. Congratulations, Tim, on looking forward to hearing more about your talk. Oh, thank you. And

[00:32:41] Cami MacNamara: I didn't know about it until I got the show notes, so I signed up and hopefully I'll just have it going on the, on my extra screen while I'm working this week.

[00:32:50] Nathan Wrigley: Do you know what's really interesting about that comment, Cami, is that, oh, I run an event, right?

Called the Page Builder Summit. I run it with an and some others, which I'll announce a little bit later in, in weeks to come. And, and it is amazing how the, lengths that you go to, to get the word out, and yet still the WordPress community is so gigantic that right? you turn up and you talk to people and you say, oh yeah, we do the summit.

And the vast, majority of people that you speak to have never heard of it. And you think, ah, boy, we're just really bad at marketing. No, it's just that there's too many people to market to. but I thought decode for everything that I read, I felt Decode had done a fabulous job of kind of saturating the landscape with marketing and announcements and making it really obvious.

But there you go. Cammie's in the community probably reads a lot in and around it and still never heard about it. So there you go. Hopefully we've, we've gained an audience of one, Cammi will be joining. Oh, and I

[00:33:48] Cami MacNamara: share, I shared it too, Oh, nice. I shared it with, yeah. So

[00:33:51] Nathan Wrigley: there we go. Okay.

[00:33:53] Tim Nash: Alrightyy to be sent for you to, to you.

Yeah. What was that? You should be asking you should I asking for a check off, JP Engine. Okay. I'm sure they've got some money in their marketing budget to send to you.

[00:34:04] Nathan Wrigley: I'll ask then. WP Engine. Can I have a check? And, we'll see. See you see what happens. here we go. James has a comment about it.

He says, I've attended, decode last year. It was pretty good. a ton of great engineering talks and insights. if that's pretty good, you should check out Tim's. All right. Newsletter. it's well worth a read. I'm gonna keep using that. I think that's, I think that's brilliant. okay, let's move on.

So now we're here. I just wanted to point out the, the, amount of developer stuff that we seem to be getting over at WordPress. the wordpress.org developer blog at the moment. I dunno if you've sensed this ratcheting up of developer related content, but it feels like this kind of stuff wasn't really being done, on the.org website.

But now we've got absolutely loads. We've got this what's New for Developers article, which comes around every single month. This is the March edition, and I wanted to point it out. I'm not gonna go into it all unless one of you three had read it and wanted to pick out a particular bit. I'm gonna pause and see if anybody does.

Now there was crickets there, I sensed. Okay. In which case, ignore that. But if you are a developer, do check it out. developer.wordpress.org, slash news. And each and every month it's being updated, it seems. look at it, it's a bit like Anne McCarthy. There's absolutely tons, in here to keep you updated.

We've covered a lot of that before. And then Justin, is up to the same sort of thing. Justin Tadlock used to write at the tavern and then joined Automatic. He's doing, all sorts of content over there as well. This time, how to Register Block Variations with PHP. Again, notes will be in our show notes, and I'll wait to see if anybody wants to comment on that note.

All righty, in which case we'll move over here, which is Brian K's take on the whole thing. He's got the same intuition as I had. He's writing at WP Tavern, although we'll have to wait and see which of the seven authors managed to, successfully survive the Hunger Games, and which five of them have fallen by the wayside.

But Brian, caught my attention with this one. He talks about, exactly the same thing, automatic, doubling down on the developer community. He gets into all sorts, actually. he gets into the whole wordpress.com, wordpress.org thing and, and how confusing it is, frankly. And, if we want to go into that, we can, the wordpress.org, wordpress.com thing.

But that's all I wanted to say about that. Shall we just move it on? Alrighty, we'll do that. I don't know about this one. I'm not sure what your thoughts are, but this is, WP Cloud, which is an, initiative that I don't really know a lot about. So I'm hoping, that one of you knows a little bit more than I do.

But WP Cloud, which is what I think.com is built on, and I believe Pressable uses this, stack of technology as well. And if Jess is in the comment, she could confirm or deny that, Bluehost have announced a new cloud hosting built on top. Of WP Cloud. So I'm guessing that these companies like Bluehost and what have you, opt in, purchase the WP Cloud infrastructure and then roll it out under their own sort of white labeled, system.

I don't really know. It says the following. This is on the tavern, as I said. Bluehost has announced Bluehost Cloud. It's built on WP Cloud infrastructure in collaboration with wordpress.com to provide. Support for websites with high traffic, et cetera. Blue Host Cloud promises manage WordPress hosting with a hundred percent network uptime, faster page load, and better performance.

It targets professionals and can handle any traffic spike. I guess if it's built on top of, the WP Cloud infrastructure, that would be the gambit. CDN 28 do Global data centers, automatic WordPress edge caching. It guarantees incredible website speed. So do any of you know about this WP Cloud?

Is this like a software as a service built by WordPress that all these other hosting companies can just buy into? Do you know anything

[00:38:13] Tim Nash: about it? Not exactly. It's closer to, AWS or one of the cloud providers provide, it's basically providing the backend infrastructure, right? if you think about it, automatic are really a hosting company, and they always have been.

They just tried so hard to pretend they weren't. and eventually they realized that all these other hosting companies, they make money by like just selling their infrastructure. And there must have been this crystal moment somewhere where someone went, but we have infrastructure. We could sell it, we could make money too.

[00:38:51] Nathan Wrigley: Ah,

[00:38:52] Tim Nash: and that light bulb moment clicked in and you've got do P Cloud. I'm not sure if it's a, one-to-one from their, from WordPress dot com's infrastructure as it is because that's very specialized. and from chats with people, they've done an awful lot of very things that would be quite hard for them to spin out to allow other people like Bluehost to use directly.

But that doesn't mean that the actual physical infrastructure, so the servers underneath and how they know and the knowledge they have of software stacks. And provisioning and servers, et cetera, can't be reused. And that's apparently what they've done with Adobe Cloud. and yeah, they really are taking on a infrastructure as a service.

I.

[00:39:39] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[00:39:40] Tim Nash: Rather than software as a service.

so basically they've just taken the WordPress layer off and reapplied it to Bluehost who are then adding it back on again.

[00:39:50] Nathan Wrigley: What's in it, what's in it for the likes of Bluehost though? Or, for Bluehost, read any hosting company, what is it that the, infrastructure is, air quotes, superior or, built in a certain way.

What, why would they, a host that's already got presumably racks and racks in data centers already managing their own hosting, why would a, host wish to opt into this? What's the, benefit?

[00:40:15] Tim Nash: Because you don't want racks and every single server, especially if you've, been in hosting for a long time, you have the pros and cons.

But, e every server costs money both to acquire the server in the first place. Put it in a rack. The rack itself costs money. You've got the power costs, the consumption bandwidth costs. All of this adds up. Plus the technical debt and the technical costs in there. You need to have staff who know how to do this.

You need to have them on 24 7. You need all of this stuff there. And if you are a, new company coming into this space, then suddenly the cloud looks like a no brainer. Oh yeah, I can just rent some space off Amazon or off automatic. for an older company like Bluehost, they might be looking and going, we've got these data centers, but we need to modernize them.

We need to have a refresh. Ouch. I've just seen that bill come in and I don't have 20 million lying around to do a full refresh. I will just do a partial refresh or, we'll, we, as we'll decommission servers and rent, take some from these people. I'm sure that there was, lots of, deals being made to make sure that was profitable.

but yeah, hosting your stealth is really expensive. So if, automatic came along with a sweetheart deal and said, and I don't know, obviously the internet business transaction, but if automatic as I assume, came along and said, Hey, we know you, you know us. Here's a sweetheart deal to be our big customer.

and Bluehost went, that will save us from having to build two new data centers or refresh two data centers. Let's go with that and we get to then jump up a level in terms of the type of hosting we are because. Without being mean to Blue Host, they are not known as the greatest hosting company in the world.

You don't tend to get people recommending them as top tier, as a top tier hosting company. They are more towards your, Walmart level hosting company. They, stack them high and sell, sell low prices, but stacking them very high. So this gives them an opportunity to, dip their toes in that slightly more lucrative market.

'cause managed WordPress hosting is a very lucrative market, if done correctly. This gives them a nice little way in. And potentially you're saving them costs at the same time.

[00:42:45] Nathan Wrigley: So the, Amazon comparison sits really well with me. I can really understand that because it, the story, at least in my head, goes that let's say it was 15 years ago, somebody in the Amazon, the, opera echelons of Amazon made the same connection.

You just pretended that, WordPress made, which was, we've got thousands of computers all around the world. Why don't we actually start using them for other people's stuff instead of just our stuff? 'cause we built, look, they're just bulletproof. Everything stays up and then very rapidly.

Amazon started eating everybody's lunch. there was a period of time where that was all anybody talked about, right? And so you could, all these things like, I don't even know if Digital Drop, digital Ocean and companies like that are using Amazon, but those kind of companies pop up, which, do you know what I mean?

Those companies that sell on Amazon stuff. So it's a bit like that. wordpress.com has this infrastructure and they're selling it little chunks at a time to companies like Bluehost who then just get to step away from the technological nightmare of keeping the data center up to date, all of that.

Swapping out disks when they go wrong. wordpress.com takes that, or the WP Cloud takes that over and sells on their expertise and their engineering and their infrastructure and hardware, price, which presumably is good for them and, good for the vendor in this case, blue House. Okay, I didn't understand that, but now I do.

Thank you. Cami. Anything? Michelle, anything?

[00:44:17] Michelle Frechette: No, I, just was looking over their press release again and I just put some notes in the, private chat there about what they like just copy and pasted it. Basically saying that, other WordPress providers typically charge for traffic spikes or throttle resources as site demands grow.

The partnership with automatic takes care of a lot of those kinds of things. So basically just adding onto what Tim's already said, but, I'm just smiling

[00:44:40] Tim Nash: at the them going, oh yeah, we won't charge you for traffic spikes like you will once you start getting them.

[00:44:47] Cami MacNamara: But it's a neat offering, right?

I think anything that makes it better for the end user is a, good move. So,

[00:44:55] Nathan Wrigley: this whole WP Cloud thing, I like, I've just heard talk of it lately, the last sort of three to four months. Is that because I'm ignorant or is that because it is a new offering and Bluehost are one of the first to jump in with both feet.

Nobody knows. I've

[00:45:12] Tim Nash: only heard of it in the last three months. Okay. And the only, I only heard of it because of the announcement with Bluehost.

[00:45:18] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. All right. da, Oh, okay. So James, thank you for dropping in. James says, do you suppose Bluehost is going towards A-W-P-V-I-P equivalent, and I'm guessing.

It is, I would imagine it's built on top of the same infrastructure as WP VIP, or at least they're those teams may be closely related. I don't know. and James is also saying, I've seen in the past three to four years, WP offerings have been showing itself on hosting sites more and more, but I can't imagine the time and infrastructure needed to maintain them.

Yeah, no kidding. you managed to get them all in one comment. Thanks, James. I've seen in the past three, but I can't, I think you managed to get that in. And then Courtney said, WP Cloud has been around for a while. Oh, thanks Courtney. WP Cloud has been around for a while, but no takers until lately. Insta, wp, which is that spin up a site in like The time it takes you to say the word site. boy, that should be their motto. I'm gonna copyright that and sell it back to them. so they're using it as well. Okay. So by the sounds of it, if somebody like Blue Host is hopping in, I'm imagining. Let's wait 12 months. And this conversation could be quite different.

Maybe quite a lot of these, companies, medium to large companies. 'cause I'm presuming it's not gonna be a teeny tiny little host that WordPress are gonna be talking to. It's gonna be the bigger ones who, could be very profitable. Let's wait and see. Okay. Thank you Courtney for the last comment there.

All right. some dates for your diary coming up. If you were in attendance at Word Camp Asia, there was, high anticipation for where the, for where the next one I was convinced it was gonna be in Japan, and I was sat next to somebody who said it's gonna be in the Philippines. I was like, it's Japan friend.

Of course it was the, it was the Philippines. Philippines, yeah. So get your, get your calendars out. Word Camp Asia, which was a very successful event, or at least it was, from where I was sitting. just happened last week. And of course, one of the things that they always do to keep the excitement going is right at the end, they announce where it's gonna be next time, and it's gonna be in Manila.

in 2025. I actually don't know. Michelle, do you remember if they mentioned the dates? I'm not sure if they gave any of that stuff out.

[00:47:37] Michelle Frechette: I don't think they did yet.

[00:47:39] Nathan Wrigley: No, not

[00:47:40] Michelle Frechette: that I recall.

[00:47:41] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Manila though, it is. don't get your calendar out, yet, but just pop, pop it away, but have it at the ready, it says

[00:47:49] Michelle Frechette: February, but no dates specifically yet.

[00:47:51] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Get the calendar back out and get your crayon out and just do the whole of February just block book

[00:47:57] Michelle Frechette: out. I'm looking at the, splash page is already up with a call for organizers.

[00:48:01] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, Okay. so you can head to there. It's, it's already happening, but, so this brings me to the next question.

Cammie, Tim, forgive me, I'm going to be slightly exclusionary here because I know that neither of you attended Word Camp Asia, but I did sat next to, a fabulous lady called Michelle, in the contributor date. And we uploaded photographs and she has the permission to, if you upload a photograph, she gets to say yay or nay.

And, and I kept our, and it, yeah, but it kept failing, didn't it? Everything. Most of what I uploaded failed to work. I, we'd never quite the problem of that.

[00:48:38] Michelle Frechette: I'll say it's mostly it was you, Nathan, but yeah.

[00:48:41] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it's definitely me. It's always me. but the, we, I just wanna know what your thoughts were, looking back, I know that on previous Word camps, you've had a few bits and pieces to say about the, accessibility of event, given your situation particularly.

Yeah. How did it all go from you from that perspective, but also did you just simply enjoy the event? Was it a good, fun time?

[00:49:02] Michelle Frechette: It was an amazing event. Absolutely. Barna it. They work. Camp Asia has had two events now, and they both have just hit the highest marks as far as I'm concerned. interestingly, so last year I did a attend.

Then they had put a lot of attention on accessibility, and all, almost everything was accessible last year until the very final day when they had all of the people come up on stage and they looked at me with horror in their eyes because the main stage wasn't accessible. And I was just like, oh, come on, you guys, I could, care less about being on the stage this point.

Take your moment in the sun. But this year they made sure that even the very last thing was that I would be able to get onto stage. So there was literally nothing I could not access.

[00:49:48] Nathan Wrigley: Oh.

[00:49:49] Michelle Frechette: in Taiwan and e even most, I. All the restaurants we went to, like all the public spaces we went to, there literally was nothing that I had any issue with accessing.

And they, really put all the detail and attention and, I love it. I always say, if you make it accessible for me, you've made it accessible for other people too. So feel free to ask me all the questions. I was not the only person with mobility issues. I was not the only person.

There were people with canes, there were people, in wheelchairs. I was not the only person. And so by asking me questions, making sure that things were accessible for me, then you also make sure that things are accessible for any other people who attend. And I'm always happy to be the person that answer those questions so that you can make it more accessible for other people.

So I, haven't, spoken to those other people. I hope that they found it as accessible as I did. but yeah, bar none, it was. It was pretty amazing event.

[00:50:42] Nathan Wrigley: It's a bit of a silly question 'cause I know the answer, but it doesn't become accessible by default. there's no correct event on that level, which most of it'll be accessible if you just pick the venue without thinking about it.

do the stage without thinking about it, organize the rooms without thinking about it. It's all gotta be done. Presumably every decision has to go through the prism of accessibility. One step at a time.

[00:51:08] Michelle Frechette: So the, like any room, the room that I spoke in, 'cause I did a talk in Asia, had to have, I either had to not get on stage or you had to have a ramp for me to get on stage.

And of course they had a rant for me to get on stage. They made sure that all of the platforms that the vendors had in, in the sponsor halls, had little ramps so that I wanted to get. And I and other people, of course, wanted to be able to even get onto those little, platforms I could. And so I did, I took advantage of that so that it was, not for Naugh, as it were, but also so that I could interact and do the same things that other people had access to.

And thinking about those, that sponsors took into account that if they were having an event, I could access it, that the, the, the dinner, for speakers and then the after party, all of those things were accessible as well. And my gratitude of course, but I, we shouldn't even have to give gratitude.

It should just be something that people think of. But, but I am grateful that they do take those things into account and that, that so many strides have been made in the last few years to make. WordPress events accessible. So yeah, it was great.

[00:52:19] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. I got to catch your, your presentation. I only managed to, I saw from about 10 minutes in, I snuck in 'cause I was, I didn't, I was doing an interview.

Yeah, no, I snuck in right at the back in the, And so I saw you on the stage. That was quite a high stage actually. You were like, but it was a lovely event. I, managed to connect with lots of people that I haven't seen before. Managed to reconnect with lots of people that I had seen before.

Managed to carry out a bunch of interviews. I'm doing a bunch of interviews for the tavern. They'll be coming out, a few of them. One of them has already. and I'll be putting some more out as the days and weeks go on. but what a, great event. What a fabulous location. And, it's just a shame.

It rained every day. I was not looking forward to that, I was expecting it was

[00:53:03] Michelle Frechette: very overcast. Yeah. But it wasn't snow. So I was happy.

[00:53:07] Nathan Wrigley: the day before we were, I was due to set off. It was 31 degrees in Taipei. the day that I landed, it was 12. I was like, oh, okay. But I can't complain.

but I really enjoyed it from every perspective. I enjoyed it. It was just lovely to catch up with some friends, make some new friends, as I said. And then back to this one, Bluehost Cloud. Is in early access pricing. Ah, okay. We didn't mention the pricing, but it is in the article. You can go and check that out for yourself, but it looks like early bird catches the worm and all that by the sounds of it.

And instead, WP spins off a site and less time that it sets. it does it if you model it up like I do Insta, I'm gonna say it correctly. Insta WP spins up a site in less time than it takes to say this tagline. That's quite a hard tagline to say. I think there's some work to be done on the order of the world.

By design. By design. Yeah, that's right. Can't wait through an abandoned ship. Notes start again. okay. I don't know if either of you two wanna be, wanna be talking about work Camp Asia. I, you're welcome.

[00:54:10] Cami MacNamara: I loved all the pictures. I especially love the pictures of that super cool building that must have been near the venue that everybody, this I paid what?

Oh one. Yeah, everybody took that picture and I, it was really fun to see everyone and it looked like the weather was, even though it's rainy. I live in Seattle, so that's normal, but it looked comfortable, like it didn't look like it was super humid or anything

[00:54:34] Nathan Wrigley: like that,

[00:54:35] Cami MacNamara: so No,

It was really,

nice to watch everything online and yeah.

[00:54:41] Nathan Wrigley: So we, we, we were in a hotel. I say we, there was lots of us in a hotel, that was really close to that building. And in the uk I, I dunno quite why, but in the UK we, we really didn't go down the skyscraper route. We, have very few buildings of considerable size. I think, there's quite a few in London now, which are fairly tall.

But, and I, spent a ridiculous amount of time just staring at that building. It's called t Taipei 1 0 1. And in Taipei there's nothing as big as that. Not even approaching as big as that. So there's just this, it's

[00:55:19] Michelle Frechette: the third tallest building in the world, Nathan.

[00:55:20] Nathan Wrigley: So it's bonkers big. I took this photo on the day that I left and it was literally the top of it was in the clouds.

[00:55:29] Michelle Frechette: Wow. and I know that you've got stuff like that in New York and it's all, did you go to the

top?

[00:55:34] Nathan Wrigley: only in my mind. Oh. The reason I didn't go to the top was 'cause the day I wanted to go to the top, it was in the clouds, so I thought I might as well stay there. Still worth it. Yeah. I learned so much. I, took

[00:55:46] Michelle Frechette: some pictures.

I'll be uploading to wordpress.org, photo directory. It,

[00:55:51] Cami MacNamara: looks so different at different times of the day too. Like interest. You so lit beautifully

[00:55:57] Michelle Frechette: at night. Yeah, it has this giant. 200, I think it was 200 metric ton steel ball that hangs suspended on the 89th, 87th to 89th floor. Something like that, is a wind damper so that it controls the sway of the building in case of earthquakes and typhoons and high winds.

That I was just like the nerd in me was so happy to see that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, giant.

[00:56:21] Nathan Wrigley: Giant, what? Wind ball. That's what you need. Yeah. Apparently they do that in Japan a lot. They have something just to, I dunno quite how it works. I guess there's inertia in the ball or something like that. If the whole thing starts to move, I, would not be happy to see that ball moving.

It'd be like, get quick, get down. yes, I did take the British weather with me. thank you. Says friendly web guy. yes, it would appear that I did, Tim, anything on Word Camp Asia.

[00:56:46] Tim Nash: I'm super jealous.

[00:56:47] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, I'll take you with me next time. Okay. we can go together. I'm hiding your luggage. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Okay. It's deal ifs if you can

[00:56:55] Michelle Frechette: go, It's such a great experience.

[00:56:57] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it really was good. Anyway, e enough of all that. Let's talk about a different event. so this is something else which was announced, and we'll just do this very quickly because, it's not like a big community event. It's a much smaller, tight knit event, if this is to say that Matt Mullenweg is gonna deliver the state of the word address in 2024. Just before we started the show, I said it's interesting that's now split out into its own little event. I think there's 200 places available or something like that. So it's much, much smaller. It's two hours long with a thing after it.

But if you are, if you're really into that, that you now know about it. And Michelle, you said something about like why it's been split. I dunno if you Yeah, So it, prior to the pandemic, it used to be part of the closing, cer ceremonies, of Ward Camp us. And during the pandemic, of course, we weren't having these events except online.

[00:57:52] Michelle Frechette: And The state of the word was decoupled from any particular event or any particular region. And so because it isn't a US thing, it's a global thing. So to have it at one of the flagships just felt a little unfair to the rest of the world. I'm assuming. I have not heard that officially. and then after.

We came back in person. It was a very small event at the Tumblr offices in New York City, two years in a row, which I was able to attend. but because of the pandemic, it was like 50 people and that was, masked and all of those things. and then this year it was moved to Madrid. And I think it's pretty awesome that the moving it every year is going to give the opportunity for different communities to come and participate in that event, to ask questions, to be present and to report back to on, on what that event is.

And so if you have an opportunity to attend the state of the word, I say, go for it. It was such an amazing experience for me to be there and to ask questions and to listen and be part of that community, that little sub represent, representative group of, all of us. And even to wa I, I threw a watch party this year online with my local meetup, which turned out to be like a global thing.

We had about 20 different people from around the world in my little zoom room, which is pretty cool. But if you have an opportunity to watch it that way, watch it on your own, watch it in replay, whatever. there's just a lot that gets mentioned there and it's just an opportunity to hear what's going to, what's on the blueprint for what's coming in WordPress more than just the software with the community and events as well.

[00:59:27] Nathan Wrigley: 16th of December. 2024. So you've, got plenty of time to whip your calendar out. so we should be good. Okie dokie. I thought this was a nice article. I was, really lucky enough to see, to see Leslie Sim, who goes with the title leslie.pizza Online, which is just a great, website, URL, by the way, Leslie, but lucky enough to, to meet her, she took 12 of us, including herself, 13 on a walk, which, which was quite a walk, I'll say no more.

and nice to spend some time with her. But subsequently, since getting back, she wrote an article called The Oxygen Mask Approach to Open Source. And I'll just paraphrase. Basically, if you get on a plane, you go through this, safety check, and one of the things that they always say is, if you are sitting next to a child, make sure that your oxygen mask is on.

Before you deal with the child next to you, the principle being, you might spend so long getting the oxygen mask on the child next to you that you yourself succumb. So get yourself sorted first. Make sure you are okay. Then move on to the other people around you if that's what's needed. And and so this whole article is about this in open source, and it's basically saying don't, it's not saying don't do open source unless you've got yourself sorted, but it's saying.

That's an okay position. Don't feel bad just because you have contributed or want to contribute. If you're not in a position to contribute, then you haven't got your own mask on. And don't worry about it. other people can do things. You don't have to. And I just thought this was a really nice way a phrasing it.

And I know Cami, you, liked this, didn't you?

[01:01:10] Cami MacNamara: Yeah. I love this article because, I've been part of the WordPress meetup group here in Seattle since, volunteering since about 2016. But I taught, basic WordPress meetup for from 2018 until 2023. And finally last year I was just like, I need a break.

we all come to that point where you need to just step back. And I, we were going to have a Word camp in Seattle and we've put that on hold since US is gonna be in Portland for two years. But, the, our meetup group dwindled in terms of people running it during Covid and it just, made it all that much harder to spread ourselves around and teach.

So I'm taking a break, I'm putting my mask on. So I loved this article. I thought it was great. And wisdom from Robert is always good. Oh, yeah. I should say, yeah. Robert Wind, who gave Leslie the idea. Yeah. From side SYDE. it, was, in the contributor day. Robert suggested that Leslie take this approach.

Yeah. so yeah, I've forgotten that detail. I was, I

thought it was great, but it is true. we we all wanna help and you get in the pattern of doing it and sometimes, you're running your business, you're doing all the other things, it's okay to step back for a little bit and then you can always resume what you were doing.

[01:02:38] Nathan Wrigley: I guess there are some things where that really is more difficult than other things. So I'm, I did a podcast episode, of, for the Tavern a little while ago, and it was all about, PHP, unit testing, I believe it was, and I can't remember who was it? Juliet? oh, forgive me. What's Juliet's surname? Tim, you are nodding your head anyway.

Yeah. Juliet, I was

[01:03:02] Tim Nash: about to tell you, and then you became, Tim and I were like, Nope. Got outta my head. Oh,

[01:03:06] Nathan Wrigley: darn it. Anyway, Juliet, she, is more or less single handedly propping up this, this very important part of the WordPress project. And that makes it even harder, right? Because it, all of that weight falls on Juliet's shoulders.

And so if Juliet steps away, this, entire edifice collapses. And so that's really difficult. But obviously if you're in a, I don't know if you're in a, word camp organizing team and there's 12 of you doing a, similar sort of job that can be spread around, but I feel guilt doing things like that. If I've been doing something for any length of time and I then step away, there is this impending sense of guilt, and I don't know where that comes from.

I don't know why that happens, but I do feel like, oh, I should do it because I've always done it, or I've been doing it for a really long time. And I guess what Leslie's saying is, get over it. it's okay to look after yourself, right? You're. Put yourself first from time to time. open floor.

Anybody want to go with that?

[01:04:03] Michelle Frechette: When, I used to teach in the massage school, what they would often say about self-care is you can't pour from an empty cup. So you have to make sure that you are, that you have taken care of yourself before you can help others. It's very important.

[01:04:17] Nathan Wrigley: But you, contribute a lot of your time.

so I'm not trying to drop you in it here, Michelle, but you contribute a lot of your time. Do you, ever have that thing where, because you've been doing such and such a thing for the longest time, you do poor from an empty cup Occasionally. Because, it's just, it's what Michelle does.

Michelle does this thing and that thing and this other thing, and it's hard to step out and be honest with yourself that you're fa facing burnout or you're, I don't know, Leslie's face, I think

[01:04:47] Michelle Frechette: a little bit. but those are the times when I will actually. Take a little step back from certain projects of my own as opposed to letting other people down, right?

So if I am feeling, if I'm up against that, I'll be like, I'm not gonna publish, coffee talk for a month or two, even though I've got some things in the, that I could publish. I let people know that those, episodes are gonna be a little late coming up because I need to deal with my own self first and not pour from the empty cup as it were.

[01:05:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Thank you. And, Courtney to the rescue, rda. Olmer. Thank you, Courtney. I feel really bad. but that's perfect. Yeah. Contributing. So anyway, thank you for that, Courtney. And then Nigel says, contributing is a privilege. James also adding in that, you can only do so much, time. And then Ben Intel.

Oh, we're back to WordCamp Asia. It was great meeting. Me in this case, but it was very nice to meet you too. and I'm not just a cutout head, that did come, actually, but I managed to, stop them using it mostly, which was fabulous. I'm gonna get an entire cutout of Bob's body. I. Minus the head.

There

[01:05:55] Michelle Frechette: you go. That's my, just we can all just put it and throw heads, take it around and everybody else can plunk their head on it. And that's my mission for Word Camp. It

[01:06:04] Cami MacNamara: should have a hat too. yeah. Hat. So it's like those old fairground

[01:06:08] Nathan Wrigley: things, just that little Exactly. Space where you can be Bob from Bob did a, Bob did a, a sponsor booth, which was really interesting because, e every sponsor booth basically is a product, right?

you've got a thing and you're trying to pitch the product. Bob's, booth isn't a product, and, I was really curious as to what he made of it, but he reckoned it was so worthwhile, all the people. So he was literally just pitching his po well, not even pitching, he was just being there to say.

I've got a podcast, have a listen. And, and he reckons it was really worthwhile. He got to meet a ton of new people. That would've been much more difficult for him to meet. anyway, yeah. Next time I'm coming with headless Bob. That doesn't sound nice.

[01:06:49] Michelle Frechette: I think about it, it's basically you get to be Santa Claus and everybody comes to you instead of you having to go out to everybody else.

Yeah, it's brilliant.

[01:06:56] Nathan Wrigley: Exactly. Very forward thinking. He's, a clever also, he gets a seat and he gets well. You know that you get to a certain age, don't you? Not saying anything, Bob. Just, he'll take that in. Good measure. I would imagine. We send each other quite a lot of messages and they're mostly deprecating of one another.

It's quite funny. okay, let's move on quickly while I get myself out of that hole. this, I don't even know, right? Please tell me. Is the DSA, so we're gonna talk very quickly about the Digital Services Act. Is this a US piece of legislation or is this some sort of international EU type thing? What's, what is this?

Did anybody know? I. Nobody knows. Okay. I think it's eu.

[01:07:40] Cami MacNamara: I think it's eu.

[01:07:41] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. That sounds okay by me. We'll go with, usually when it's something like this, very often it is the eu, isn't it? When there's, something tightening up around privacy or something like that, very often the eu, is to blame.

Oh, I know it's the eu. I know it's the EU because of this fabulous comment, which we'll come to in a minute. Can you see that on the screen? We'll come, to that in a moment. Brilliant. so it, it is the eu Thank you. You've reminded me. So the DSA, the Digital Services Act, which I really don't know a lot about, but it think of it, I guess a bit like GDPR.

It's coming and it's going to change the way things are. It would appear that the WordPress project needs to think a little bit about notifying, people in the forums. So you've been used to, logging in and making comments on the forums and what have you. I'm guessing that this is gonna count, in forums that you may yourself run.

But in the future, the Digital Services Act is going to, compel you to notify, your users when certain things happen. for example, if you archive people's content, then you need to, actually let them know that you've taken it down, which I think is curious because as the, a, a website owner, I like to think that I've got total carte blanche.

I don't like that. I disagree with what you've said. I'm going to moderate it out of existence. Apparently in the case of the WordPress forums, the opinion is that's maybe not the way that they need to approach it. Maybe it's not as draconian as that, but it says here it is a requirement on legal advice that notification be clear about why content is being archived.

in the future, WordPress forum moderators, if they're gonna archive anything, they need to be mindful of that and notify people. they also need to notify users if they are blocked. So if they do something naughty and get blocked, they need to be notified about what the reason for that is. but if they produce spam content, that's fine.

You just don't need to notify them about. Anything. and so there you go. So if you are in the WordPress community forums and you you're posting things and somebody decides to take it down for one reason or another, they've got to notify you. I got a feeling that companies like Facebook are just going to be like, no, we're just gonna do it whenever we like.

But anyway, so I thought that was it.

[01:09:59] Cami MacNamara: Maybe the notification can just be because I said so, or, They're talking about, down here about having a sort of dropdown list of templated replies, so it might be, so for example, okay, I don't know, offensive content. You just pick right. A, thing and then presumably it spits out.

[01:10:18] Nathan Wrigley: But interestingly, you've got to do it in the first place, right? Yes. Yeah.

[01:10:22] Michelle Frechette: A lot of social media already has that, right? So Facebook already has that. Twitter already has that, where it, you do get a notification if something's been removed. You can further investigate. You can open up, you can reply and say, I don't think it should have been, and there, and go through some kind of arbitration.

they're, they get the last say, but at least you have an opportunity because a lot of it is just done digitally through ai, looking for keywords and things like that. So I think that this is just moving into an area that's not specifically social media, where people have had opportunity to have, back and forth with one another.

[01:10:56] Tim Nash: It does feel a lot like somebody has come up with a bunch of laws without thinking about implementation as always. You are kidding. no, that never happens. Say, do law makers ever do that? Actually gone and been in a forum? Yeah. To moderate it, they might have suddenly realized that shadow bans are really useful for letting that person just yell into the void for a little while before you block.

That's right. Yeah. So she, and then some people are dicks. And need to be kicked out as quickly as possible and don't need to go through 20 levels of approval to do this.

[01:11:27] Michelle Frechette: I, they said that should not be the title of this episode. No. Okay. Alright. Or no, it could go,

[01:11:34] Cami MacNamara: in the dropdown.

[01:11:35] Nathan Wrigley: Gotta say it's a strong That's right.

You are a expletive. That's why we ban you. But it does, you're, you are right. I don't know. In all reality, I don't know what the WordPress forums kind of traffic is. I would imagine it's, fairly steady and what have you, but it's gonna be more work On behalf of the, all the moderators.

And again, you'll have to be trained. Trained more

[01:11:56] Tim Nash: volunteers.

[01:11:58] Nathan Wrigley: Exactly. Yeah.

[01:11:59] Tim Nash: And being a support for, I've been. In the support forum contributor and in the contribute and in the core support forum team for a long time, and stepped back away from it because of burnout and bits. It is not a fun place to be at times.

and people are not necessarily nice and they don't understand that this is a, something is wrong. And it's one thing when you are a, support engineer at a hosting company or at a product company and someone's yelling at you and there's a little part of it that's still wrong, but it's your job and you've got people you can go to and mechanisms internally to be able to deal with for a long time, the support forums were places where people came to be very nasty to people who were just trying to help them and be there, be volunteers, so they don't need more problems.

that said. you all these sort of laws come from a place where they have a genuine problem and they're trying to solve the thing and it's a, and you, they create an act that's aimed at Facebook and it inadvertently affects WordPress support forums, but it equally as affects, Joe's football forum of 10 people.

in ways that they never thought about. because they just never fought it through. I just, I think Otto's comment though about banning, which I'm pretty sure, was ingest.

[01:13:31] Nathan Wrigley: I don't see Otto's comment. Where's Otto's going? You scroll down. Oh, yeah. I say, yeah. Otto's comment.

so Ottos said, Otto said the following, I guess trying to rile the conversation a little bit. He said, I believe that it would be much simpler and more effective to simply block anyone from the EU posting content at all. If they want to pass stupid laws, then they get stupid results.

Firstly, I'm not in the eu. Oh. but secondly, most people in the EU don't actually pass stupid laws. Yeah. most people in the EU sit and watch their politicians pass stupid laws, which, I guess happens all over the place. But the, interesting thing I think about this is that it would appear on the face of it that the DSA, the Digital Services Act, if I post something to an online forum, I have an expectation that the, if that ever went live, I.

I need to be told if it's taken down. And I think that's an interesting shift because it gives me, as a poster, somebody that's posting the content, a kind of power in a way that I feel that I never would've had before. I would've assumed that once I'd hit return, if it ever got moderated onto the forum, then I would have no expectation that would be there forever.

Unless somebody told me about it. I would've expected that, at any point the website for whatever policies they've got there can just remove it. but maybe this puts more power into the hands of posters and we'll see how that goes. You see how that plays out, over the long term.

Anyway, sorry. Cami, Michelle, anything you wanna add to that?

[01:15:09] Cami MacNamara: I just think it would be very hard for people to keep track of places they're posting stuff and then being concerned about what happens.

[01:15:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yep. Yep. Yep. Anyway, if you're a moderator, a bit like Tim was, hopefully this, new. in air quotes, burden, is not gonna be, not gonna be too onerous, and it would appear that Ryan AP appreciates your sense of humor.

Tim, I'm guessing he's talking about, that comment that you made a minute ago, which I'm not going to repeat. needling. A haystack says, James Peas in the pool, lost in the void. That's the possible title. There we go. Peas in the pool. Lost in the void. Okay. No. All right. Okay, moving on. Okay. So more events. We talked about decode a little while ago. I want to bring your attention to the fact that in the UK it would appear, WordPress is coming back to life in real, in-person events. So since 2019, the whole thing just. Disappeared. It went online. I guess there was a proportion of people that could cope with that, but I think the vast majority of people decided after a period of time that online wasn't really for them.

But now that's in the past, hopefully the rear view mirror and WordPress London, the WordPress London Meetup met, last a few weeks ago in London. And the plan is to do it every single month from now on. And the next one has been announced, you can see on this page. So this is really for people in the uk, March the 28th, so 10 days from now, Thursday, March the 28th. It's at the Clavio, office in London. So if you fancy doing that, you can go to meet up.com, search for W-P-L-D-N, but I'll put the, link in the show notes for tomorrow. A slightly closer to home, both me and Tim. Tim, I've only been a couple of times to be honest, but Tim I think was a, is a, is was a stalwart of this event.

WordPress leads is returning to in-person meetups. How long have you been off the, off the in-person thing? Over at Leads.

[01:17:13] Tim Nash: So it's worth saying that these are the two oldest WordPress user groups in the country. They've both been around since 2008, and they were founded within a month of each other.

Isn't there a bit of

[01:17:24] Nathan Wrigley: rivalry? Isn't

[01:17:25] Tim Nash: there some, so London is the younger kid. How do you have to say it? by, by, a week or, less than a week. but they, yeah, they, these, it's good because at, its height, just before the pandemic, there were 26 user groups in the uk. With active in-person events. Now, if you think of the size of the uk 26 user groups, you couldn't, there were points where you could literally walk down the street and find a new user group.

Yeah. and they were decimated, absolutely decimated. 2020 was the last WordPress leads in person event, and it was February, 2020. it was just before the pandemic. We were all going, or, just before we were going into lockdown, I should say. And there really was a, should we have this?

Shouldn't we have this debate going on? And by the time we, we were just before lockdown for the fir, that one, and there were very few people who came. And obviously the next event, we were in lockdown. There weren't any in-person events. This is a informal return in that it's, we're meeting in a coffee shop, But yeah, it's been a, a long time coming and, it hopefully the, we have, there are options for venues and things around, and so we do have lots of, hopefully going forward it will mean that these user groups will restart and that might kickstart others. I know, Elliot was, who's been in the chat, was talking about, WordPress, Chena restarting, and, I think WordPress Northeast might already have restarted.

they, certainly there from their meetup page, they appear to be back into in person. And that been for a little while. but it'd be nice to see some music groups starting. 'cause that's the only way we're gonna kickstart the larger events. we had Whitley Bay as our sole word camp for the last.

Four years. you went to that, right? You loved it? I did. Yeah. And do you know what, it was one of my favorite word Camps of all time, huh? I, love small, intimate events like that. Oh, okay. I'm not a massive fan of the Nets. Get 2000 or 4,000 or 6,000 people in a, space. I, it doesn't work for me. I like it when I can actually go around and talk to people and not have to spend.

As much time on a WhatsApp group or in a telegram group trying to organize where they are.

[01:19:54] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, But

[01:19:54] Tim Nash: it would be nice if we could get, one big word. If we could get Word Camp UK, maybe off the ground or Word Camp London off the ground and a couple of local word camps, that would be fantastic and nice.

Yeah. Word

[01:20:05] Nathan Wrigley: Camp. UK's an interesting proposition, isn't it? Now that Word Camp Canada's come along, it feels like that's all up for grabs. So just to quickly recap. Thanks for that, Tim. the WordPress London Meetup is happening on the 28th of March, and the leads informal. Let's meet up in a bar or a coffee shop in this case.

Sure. And just have a little bit of a chat. just see what's, what that's gonna be happening on the following day. The 19th. Oh, that's tomorrow. Good grief. Yeah, I'd forgotten that. it's happening tomorrow, in Leeds at 200 Degrees Coffee Shop and Barista School. it says there

[01:20:38] Tim Nash: just very nice coffee

[01:20:40] Nathan Wrigley: anchor go along.

All right. Okay. 15 going at the moment it says, so let's see if we can.

[01:20:45] Michelle Frechette: Is that in Celsius or is that in Fahrenheit. I was gonna say that angle,

[01:20:52] Nathan Wrigley: that would hurt. That would really hurt. Belinda's given us a comment, she said, oh, so first of all, let's go to Elliot. In response. Yeah, in person meetups.

Shelton coming back. Oh, you heard it here. Probably second, but there you go. Cheltham is coming back. So that's if you're living, to the east. Oh, no Cheltham, sorry. on the 16th of April. Thank you for that, Elliot. That's good to know. And Belinda joining us. Hello Belinda. WordPress Northeast is running an on person, running on person, Did you mean to say in-person events you did and how? Yeah, I suspect so. so that's been happening for a little time. That's good to know. And WordPress northeast meet ops are up and running. Okay. So paraphrase. So there's three, three things that I know of at the moment with the fourth one starting in Cheltham.

Oh, it's coming back, Tim. Before you know it, there'll be 26 different ones and then, you'll have the indecision, not of meeting the 3000 people, but which ones to go to.

[01:21:51] Tim Nash: I, did all 26 in a year once. Oh. I came to talk all 26.

[01:21:57] Nathan Wrigley: I thought you were gonna say a month then.

[01:21:59] Tim Nash: No, A month over the period of a year.

[01:22:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[01:22:02] Tim Nash: Wow. It was a lot of work.

[01:22:03] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Dedication. Was that when you were with the hosting company? 34 sp yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We

[01:22:08] Tim Nash: very kindly sponsored it and yeah, we went, all over the place and met lots of people. It was

[01:22:14] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, lovely. We're pressed for time. So I'm just gonna do a couple of things quickly 'cause I want to go to the guest and co-host contributed articles.

Firstly, this might be of interest if you are working with or working. For a, like an enterprise level WordPress agency or something like that. There's a new consortium, which has launched, I think very recently. It's called the Scale Consortium. It's, it says, I'll just read it at scale.

We believe in the immense potential of WordPress and, as the ultimate choice for enterprise websites. and then if we go to the about page, it says, the scale consortium is a group made up of representatives from some of the most prolific and successful enterprise WordPress agencies. It was created to address the evolving landscape of the enterprise layer of WordPress.

So obviously, I guess between them, they either feel that there's some, some concern about whether this, I don't really know, to be honest, why this has been put together, but I can give you the, Give you the list now. Where did it go? Where did it go? Members? Here we go. So here's a list of the, the agencies involved so far.

Big buy XWP, human made side, web dev alley, the code co crowd favorite, reactive and RT camp. So some pretty big hitters there. If that's adjacent to your mission in WordPress, if you're an agency of that, scale, consortium.org is where you wanna be going. and I'll just quickly rip through the next ones, if that's all right.

I'll come back to this next week. We haven't got time, but this was, unless anybody wanted me desperately to talk about what Pascal wrote, I'll just bump it to next week. Okay. I'll bump it to next week. Sorry, Pascal, anything on the security front you wanted to address quickly? Tim, that's happened to you since you were last on here?

I've, put the solid WP article on, but really it was a, an opportunity for you to, to just say if there was anything scary that happened, freak us out basically, if you wish.

[01:24:10] Tim Nash: No, I won't freak people out. Okay. Yeah. No website, no impending doom that we need to worry about

websites

[01:24:18] Nathan Wrigley: update.

Yeah. Yes. I'll go to your

[01:24:20] Tim Nash: updates for today. Today. just take it as a little bit of a hint that you should go and update your websites today.

[01:24:25] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, today in particular, some well after this show just

[01:24:28] Tim Nash: go and just do, some updates for me.

[01:24:30] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Alright. I did mind this morning, but I'm gonna have to do them again.

Now I'm feeling, okay. Back up first. Yeah. When your back first. Okay. Yeah, Do that. and apparently Edinburgh is online next week in person to be announced. There we go. Wow. We got a load of people from the UK in today. This is good. The UK's happening. okay. So we'll skip that, And, oh, this is personal. I run a Master on server, it's called WP Builds Social. I am very, close to shutting it down. And what I mean by that is I'm very close to deciding to shut it down. I'll give everybody about 60 days notice, but I'm gonna send an email out. I might have done already through the magic of automation.

and you may have received an email with me basically saying, look, it's very likely it'll shut down if you are using our server. I think there's several hundred of you. Then just, it's a bit of a heads up. There are ways to migrate away, and it will, there'll be a link in the email saying that's gonna happen.

But essentially it comes down to cost and time. And it was a great thing at the beginning, but the, cost is ramping up as the database. Every time you upload an image, on Twitter, you just forget about it. I now have to worry about the cost of your image and your video, and every time you do a new one, it just.

The, bill just gets bigger and bigger, essentially. So I'm thinking about it from that point of view. If you've got any intuition as a way that you can save this, that's great, but equally, read the email and, you can move away if you need to, and we'll see how that goes. Alrighty, ah, Camie habits. wp, what's this?

[01:26:08] Cami MacNamara: I decided to start a group of people that could support each other with good habits to have as a web designer, and especially as a business owner of a solopreneur or a small agency like myself. I, the whole reason I can relax and work and take time off and still have a good. Business is to have good habits.

And so every Monday I send a habit for people to focus on that week, and hopefully it will help them by the end of the year, they'll be really rolling with some good habits and have a successful web design business.

[01:26:46] Nathan Wrigley: So is it like you're dropping like one or two little curated habits a week or

[01:26:50] Cami MacNamara: is It's just one habit for each week.

Oh, yes. So for this week, it's to ask for client reviews. And last week was if they don't have a newsletter for their clients, start that. Or it could be check your email three times a day. Only stuff like that.

[01:27:04] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. Nice. so it looks like from the address, it's called Do, habits, WP habits

[01:27:11] Cami MacNamara: wp.com. You find it there, habits wp.com,

[01:27:14] Nathan Wrigley: plural.

And it looks like if you wanna, do be a part of this, enter your email address here, click the confirm box, and Cami is gonna send you an email once a week. I, there's something very nice about that project, Cami, because it feels like it's got manageable boundaries from your perspective, Yeah.

[01:27:32] Cami MacNamara: It's,

like tiny, habits can make a really big difference in your business.

[01:27:36] Nathan Wrigley: Nice.

[01:27:36] Michelle Frechette: And even if you're not a web designer, sign up for it because she's dropped some life habits in there that are good things as well. So I enjoy reading it and, following along. Absolutely. Thank you for creating this.

That's a great, it's a great initiative. Yeah. Thank you. There you go.

[01:27:51] Nathan Wrigley: habits wp.com. I will drop the link into the show notes and, watch her on TikTok while it still exists. Yes.

Oh, do you know what? Over in the, over in the EU and, great Britain, where we, where there's no talk of it going away.

Just so that just in case you wanted to move to the other side of the pond and continue your rectangle addiction, you'll still be able to enjoy the benefits of TikTok. I've yet to watch TikTok ever. Oh, and I'm proud of that and I think, I'm gonna keep going with that.

I have a friend who's never drunk Coca-Cola, and he is now on principle, never gonna drink Coca-Cola. And I think it's gonna be the same with me too. Their Pepsi

[01:28:33] Tim Nash: habit though.

[01:28:35] Nathan Wrigley: What's that?

[01:28:36] Tim Nash: Their Pepsi habit is just terrible. Oh yeah. mainlining it the whole time. Intravenous Pepsi basically. But, but I've never watched a TikTok, so I'm pleased with that.

[01:28:45] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So thank you for that. And the last couple, first of all, this is from Tim. tell us Tim, rather than me butchering it.

[01:28:56] Tim Nash: I'm running a, workshop on the 21st, which is on Thursday at, 1:00 PM GMT. It's a live workshop on cleaning a hack site. So I go through the process of finding hacks, that we spend only a short amount of time on that 'cause that is, I.

of course, and then many years of to get into that. But we then go through a step by step how to clean a hacked WordPress site. it's aimed at everybody in that there, the process steps work, whether you are a developer, a someone who just admins a site. Basically, if you have access to a WordPress site that you manage, this is a course designed for you.

It does go into some advanced stuff. So it does talk about things like do PCLI and some server side things for, going in, looking for, into things like cron jobs and things, looking, cleaning those out. it's a 90 minute workshop followed by a 30 minute q and a At the end of that, I will probably not the same day 'cause I'm probably gonna be a little bit tired after that.

But in a couple of days afterwards, I'll also be sending you the videos so you can just download them and keep them. And, I'll also give, sending out a checklist, which is basically step by step, the process that I use for cleaning up a hack site. I find that, lots of people say, oh, we cleaned up hack sites and, or that there are lots of services that will, clean up a hack site for you.

And, they don't do a very good job in that. The hacks come back and so we talk about why that is and also when you should use the service versus maybe asking your hosting companies to do it. nice. So there's plenty of stuff in there and I hope people will join me. it's a paid, workshop, but, it's, I think it's very reasonably priced.

and there are spaces available, I think I'll be turning off the tickets on Wednesday, so if you need to go and get your boss to sign off on it or grab their credit card, I'd do it today or tomorrow. I'll probably be turning off the, the option to buy slots. Sort of midday on Wednesday.

[01:31:07] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So the URL for that, in case you can't see it, is Tim Nash.

Do co uk slash workshop. One more time. Tim nash.co uk slash workshop. happy to say, Camie that you've got a new, subscriber, Ryan's just signed up. Or maybe Ryan just signed up for Tim Nash's course. I don't know, depending on when that dropped, but, I think Tim, this was this some sort of intuition here.

WP umbrella is that No, he's, no. Okay. he shr check it out.

Okay. Check it out. Yeah. but. I know that Tim comes on the show and because of the high level nature of everything we talk about and we talk about the news and all of that, and it's very high level, Tim never gets a chance to really demonstrate his credentials.

But can I just say Tim's really clever and actually very, knowledgeable at this kind of thing. I've seen him at a variety of Word camps talking and he's rather good. so go and sign up for his, his course, which is gonna be on Thursday, and if not that bookmark the address. I'm sure he'll be doing it again in the future.

He said hopefully. Yeah, he's nodding. Okay, great. And the very last one is coming straight from Michelle that got dropped in at the last moment. Tell me about this, Michelle, celebrating the power of women.

[01:32:26] Michelle Frechette: Yeah, so WP n Managed Ninja has done, a featured article on five women in WordPress, and I was very honored to be, among these women, and I just, I wish that you would all go and read this to meet the other four.

many people know me. I'm not sure that you know all the other four women that are in this article. and don't ask me to name them off the top of my head, because I, it's morning here. But anyway, there are four amazing women. Read the article, learn about them. I just can't say their praises enough.

[01:32:59] Nathan Wrigley: I will be sure to pop that into the show notes. but it's over at the wp managed ninja.com. I'm guessing it's on their blog. but there's no slash anything well, it's slash empowering women in WordPress all hyphenated, in some scary news that's just happened. A massive spider is now about there and it's really big and freaking me out, and it's just there.

Wait.

[01:33:24] Michelle Frechette: Is that a new member of your web building team?

[01:33:27] Nathan Wrigley: That's just absolutely terrifying. It's about the size of my thumb that his body is about the size of my thumb neck. Go away. Just go away. Ugh, that's horrible. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to go. but luckily we're over time anyway, so that's perfect.

So thank you the, four of us, including me. Thank, me. we've enjoyed. My co-host, Michelle Frechette. Thank you for joining us again, even though you weren't feeling a hundred percent. And thank you also to Cami, Cami McNamara, and thank you to Tim Nash. It does look like he was talking about both.

Look, you signed up for both Tim and Camis. Yay. I'm

[01:34:04] Cami MacNamara: signing up for Tim's.

[01:34:06] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, Oh, this show is effective. Come on this show and sell your stuff. Pitch your stuff. It's great. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. You've all been on this show before, so you know what's gonna happen.

The, the slightly humiliating hand wave of joy, Cammie's. Cammie's being a refu. No, she's not. No, she's, I'm

[01:34:26] Cami MacNamara: here.

[01:34:27] Nathan Wrigley: There we go. That'll do. I think we got it. Appreciate anybody who made a comment or really makes the show go forwards. We will be back next week with a different panel of guests.

Thank you so much for joining us this week. Bye. Take it easy. Thanks, Cami. Good to see you all. Thanks, Tim. Take it easy. Bye-Bye bye-Bye.