133 – Helping coders run successful businesses with Hahna Kane Latonick

133 – Helping coders run successful businesses with Hahna Kane Latonick

In this episode:

Discussion – Generating high converting leads in an efficient, cost effective way

Today we have an interesting chat for those of you trying to combine code and business.

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Hahna Kane has a background as a full stack software developer, but has more recently found herself working in the education space; helping people who have skills as a developer, but perhaps not the skills that they need to keep a business up and running.

It’s a common observation that people who are very gifted at coding often focus their attention at the things that they do best… coding. It’s possible to do this to the exclusion of some of the other areas that might benefit your business. In short, many coders and engineers struggle with the business side of their business. You know what I mean right? It’s not that they are not able to do the marketing and lead generation, more that they have invested their time in developing other skills.

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So this is Hahna’s niche, to show coders how to start a business and keep it running. It’s about building up this knowledge and expertise, and show web developers how they can monetise their coding skills to make a living from the thing that they like doing best – coding.

Hahna has a different approach to on-boarding clients, and it’s one that I like to sound of, primarily because she puts herself in a one-to-one video call with you at the start of the process. This is quite a time-suck for Hahna, but I think it’s a great way to decide if her approach and your needs are in alignment. For me, this beats hands down any amount of sales funnels and sequence emails; although it does not scale – but that’s okay with Hahna. She’s going to quickly find out what it is that you really need and whether or not what she can offer merges with what you need. It’s a good filter – from both sides.

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Should you decide that you’re a good fit with one another, Hahna has a couple of courses that you can go through. There two courses on offer… the “Freelance Developer Masterclass” and the “Propel Your Business”.

This is what Hahna says on her website:

Freelance Developer Masterclass:
“Topics covered include determining your niche, ​what services to offer, what price to charge, how to get clients, how to close the deal.”

Propel Your Business
“This isn’t a pre-made program, so everything is custom to you and what you’re struggling with. It’s all about you and me sitting down and diagnosing problems in your business and finding solutions that are specific to you.”

You really need to listen to Hahna in the podcast to get a full picture of what the courses involve.

This is not a drip fed course where you have to wait for each component of the course to come your way. Hahna takes the approach that some of the course might not ben needed by some people and so she lets you see it all right from the get-go.

So if you’re a coder who is trying hard to make your business profitable, go check out Hahna’s courses by using the links below…

Mentioned in this episode:

inventwithcode.com

Hanha’s courses can be found here

Double your business checklist

The WP Builds podcast is sponsored this week by…

WP Feedback

Cloudways

The Page Builder Framework

We thanks them for their support of WP Builds.

Transcript (if available)

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Nathan Wrigley: 00:00 Hello there, and welcome to this episode 133 of the WP Builds podcast. This episode is entitled Helping Coders run successful businesses with Hahna Kane Latonick, and I'll tell you a bit more about that in a few moments. It was published on Thursday the 20th of June, 2019 my name's Nathan Wrigley from picture and word.co. Dot. UK, a small web development agency based in the north of England. And because it's an interview episode, we shall not be joined by David Waumsley because we're going to be joined by Hahna came the tonic instead. A few things before we begin. I'm going to be attending WordCamp Europe in Berlin this week. Please, please, if you are attending also come and find me. I'd be most grateful to meet you guys in person. That would be lawfully. Suppose the best way to do that is to drop me a message, tag it and Nathan Wrigley and the WP Builds Facebook group, or you could use at WP Builds on Twitter.

Nathan Wrigley: 01:17 I'm a little bit of a Twitter novice, so do forgive me if I don't reply right away, but I'm sure I'll work it out as the, as the days go on. But it would be very nice to meet some of you. Uh, learn more about you. Sit next to you, you have a beer and have a chat. That would be really nice. Some other things before we begin, just to let you know that every Monday in the Facebook group we do a live version of the WordPress weekly news. I publish a text and audio version very early morning on a Monday, and then we do a live version with some notable WordPress personalities in the afternoon UK time. And if you go into the Facebook group at about 2:00 PM UK time, you'll be able to see us doing that now, oddly this week, because of the fact that I'm in WordCamp Europe and I'm basically on a plane coming back.

Nathan Wrigley: 02:02 We shouldn't be doing that on Monday. We'll be doing it one day later on Tuesday, and if the stars align, I'll be joined to this week doing that live by Paul Lacey. David Waumsley and Tom Carless from beaver team pro. So come and join us. I'll post something in the Facebook group on Monday. Just before we start, some other things to mention. Please head over to WP Builds .com forward slash subscribe and you can join our mailing lists and find out about all the ways that we can keep you in touch with all the things that we're doing forward slash deals. If you want to go and check out some deals, we've added some new deals onto that page over the last couple of weeks. So for example, you can get 15% off admin pages pro, 25% this is our new one off WebARX 15% off lifter LMS, 20% of Project Huddle and the list goes on and on.

Nathan Wrigley: 02:51 So go and check some of that stuff out forward. Slash. Advertise if you would like to advertise on the WP Builds podcast, we've got audio adverts and we've got banner adverts and the ads sound a little bit like this. The WP Builds podcast was brought to you today by the page builder framework. Do you use a page builder to create your websites, the page builder framework as a mobile responsive and lightening fast WordPress theme that works with beaver builder, elementor, brizy and other page builders with this endless customization options in the WordPress customizer. It's the perfect fit for you or your agency. Go to WP dash page builder framework.com today and we do thank them for their support of the WP Builds podcast. Right? Let's get to it today. Today we've got Hahna Kane Latonick. She's all the way from Florida in the United States and she is a coder.

Nathan Wrigley: 03:45 She's a full stack coder, but a few years ago she decided she wanted to change that up a little bit and she decided she wanted to help people run their businesses. So, uh, kind of elevator pitch really is that if you're a coder, but the marketing side, the business side, running the business, doing the advertising, getting the clients through the door if you're good at coding, but not necessarily good at the business side of things, well that's where she's positioning herself herself. So if that sounds like you, stay tuned and Hahna Kang La Tonic will give you some advice on how you might be able to increase your business. I hope you enjoy it. Hello there. Thank you for listening to the WP Builds podcast. One small today from Florida in America. We have Hahna came the tonic. Hello Hahna.

Hahna: 04:32 Good morning. How are you?

Nathan Wrigley: 04:33 Yeah, it's not morning and we're about five hours separate. So yes, of course. It's morning where you are. I've got you up on an absurd amount of time in the day. It's like seven o'clock or something where you are. So apologies for that. Um, how does on this morning, because she's come to my attention for something that she does now. It don't be, don't be misled by the, the URL that she's got. She can explain that for you in a moment. But the URL that we're going to be looking@todayisinventwithcode.com all as one word, no spaces. And Hahna's, how does thing, if you like over the last period of time is she's been putting together resources, courses, technical expertise to help people like you and I developers is the broad umbrella term to, to lift their game, to raise their business. So kind of the first question is, um, who is a developer in your eyes? Who is, who is your product, uh, aimed at?

Hahna: 05:28 So to me, a developer is someone that invent things with code, right? So they, uh, program using different languages. Uh, and for the audience that I'm focused on helping specifically our web developers, uh, many of them focus on a front end web development, right? So, yeah, the, the triad of html, CSS and Javascript as well as those that I expand and using react for example. And in about 1% of them are full stack developers working both the front end and backend. Okay. Um, but I would say that the skills and concepts and expertise that I share, it could be applied to any developer that wants to a freelance, whether they're using python for example, uh, to develop software solutions to run their own business and just want to monetize their coding skills. Yep.

Nathan Wrigley: 06:25 So, although what we're going to be talking about today is not necessarily the, the increase in productivity of your ability to code necessarily. I suppose it would be good to get a little bit of background on you, where you've come from, what, what, why it is that you are an authority figure in this area. So can you tell us a little bit about your history with WordPress coding and, um, business and so on?

Hahna: 06:49 Sure, absolutely. Uh, so I actually, I have a bachelor's and master's degree in computer engineering, uh, where we focus on a variety of programming languages. And for the past 10 to 12 years, I've been working as a, uh, engineer, developing a software solutions, uh, for, uh, the Department of Defense as well as defense contracting companies. And over the past two years I decided to also dive into entrepreneurship. And so I've been, um, I actually led a few startups as a CTO of two of them, uh, teaching kids how to code as well as, uh, you know, focusing on teaching them how to develop websites as well as introducing them to a web design as well. Um, but also, uh, leading another startup of, uh, pretty much training up the next generation of developers. And so, uh, for me, given my engineering background as well as my business background, I really enjoyed the intersection and showing people how they can monetize their skills, specifically their coding and development skills to run their own business either from home or remotely.

Nathan Wrigley: 08:04 Yeah. When, when I saw your URL invent with code, it sounded to me very much like I was going to stumble across the site, which, uh, had tutorials on how to achieve this in python or how to achieve this with html or you know, react or whatever. It was not the case at all is did this business iterate? I'm away from that. Is that how you began it? Possibly,

Hahna: 08:27 right. I'd say invent with code has definitely evolved. Um, over the past year where I definitely did start out, uh, thinking about, well, who do I work with the most? Right? And I, and I worked with people who invent things with code and I was like, oh, that's a catchy name. Um, and so on that website, I wanted to share with folks how, uh, web developers can maximize their earning potential by showing them how to land your dream job or become a freelance developer or even run their own agency. And so I definitely started out sharing, uh, the best resources for web developers. So if you take a look at the past blog articles, I definitely, I share a lot of roundup of resources, uh, for web developers so that they can hit the ground running. Uh, but over time in, in building a relationship with my audience, a lot of them wanting to know how they could start their own freelancing business. Um, and so that's where I've pretty much have began to, I transform in that with code of focusing on that intersection of, uh, business and, and, uh, um, coding. And so essentially I've been putting together different, um, services and, and, uh, courses around this particular topic.

Nathan Wrigley: 09:46 Okay. Then, so I'm about to say something which it may sort of come across as a little bit offensive. I hope it doesn't, I certainly don't mean to, and it's a broad generalization, but I'm wondering is there any truth in what I'm about to say? Are people who are hardcore coding focused people who are wrangling the code all the time, are they, are they not necessarily the kind of people who are good at marketing themselves, good at finding clients? What I'm trying to think in my own head is they're more focused on the screen and the solutions than they are at the, the, you know, the business of finding clients and attracting new business. Is that wrong or offensive in any way? Sorry.

Hahna: 10:34 No, you bring up a great point. And it's a, it is a common observation that with developers and engineers, including myself, um, and in which, you know, we like to focus on the technical side of things, right? That's where our strengths lie and that's where, uh, where the most passionate about of how we can utilize technology to turn an idea into reality. Um, and uh, many developers and engineers, including those that I work with do struggle in with the business side of things just because they're not as experienced with it. Right. Um, they're definitely able to market ourselves. There are definitely able to start their own business. Uh, it's just a matter of building up that, uh, knowledge in an expertise to do so. Right. And that's what I really enjoy is helping to show a web developers how pretty much the business side of things to show them how they can market themselves, how they can monetize their coding skills. Um, because one, one common question is, you know, or how do I even get clients or you know, how do I even go about doing this? And I love showing web developers how to do that.

Nathan Wrigley: 11:51 Yes. So just to clear the, the invent with code .com website is one that is not teaching you how to write things in python and react and do the nitty gritty of wrangling the code. That's, that's not the purpose. The purpose is about taking people who already have those skills, who are basically marketable, who have a fighting chance of marketing themselves as a developer and turning them into somebody that can actually attract a, the more human side of things, the client relationships and all of that.

Hahna: 12:27 Exactly. And I do provide, I would say resources for web developers, whether I come across a killer tutorial or if I come across a service that I think will definitely help them, whether it's a course, for example, uh, that'll teach them advance development skills. Uh, I definitely share that with the community, uh, so that they can continue growing, uh, their technical skillset. Uh, but we primarily focus on, uh, showing them how they can utilize their skills to launch and grow their own business.

Nathan Wrigley: 12:59 Now, this is a complete aside, but it strikes me as quite an interesting approach that you've got on your website. Because I think it's fair to say that, you know, we're used to finding sites where there's courses and you could sign up for this offer or that offer, but it's not, I don't often see this. You have a preamble sequence. So the sequences that you, you consult with somebody, you've got a Calendly link on your website and the first step in the process is actually booking time with you. Now is that time one to one like we're having now via Skype call or something like that and, and if so, how's that working out? Why did you decide to give up? What is probably quite a lot of your free time before they've expressed lots of interests? That's, that would be quite interesting to me.

Hahna: 13:46 Well, first I'm an extrovert and I really enjoy connecting with people, hearing their story, um, and just really trying to understand where they want to be. Right. And, uh, one of my personal enjoyment is just helping people become their best self, um, in life and in their career. Um, and so I really enjoy, um, just getting on the phone with someone and just asking, you know, what are they struggling with? What problem do they have? What are the goals and aspirations and how I can help, you know, be a part of their journey to get them from where they are to where they want to be. Um, yeah.

Nathan Wrigley: 14:25 One of the things that I'm always trying to do when I'm sending out proposals actually pre proposal to be honest is I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out whether the client and I are a good fit now with the way I've decided to do it is with contact forms and things like that. You know, I put my fingers on the contact form and hopefully the fact that they're realistic will weed out people who are not that interested. It is also part of the thing, you know, you're trying to, you engage very quickly and so almost immediately you have a conversation with somebody and you can establish rapport or no rapport, um, you know, whether they've misjudged what it is that you offer or so on. Is it a way of filtering out that stuff as well?

Hahna: 15:09 Yeah. So it is a part of a, a qualifying process, right? I would love to, um, help everyone, right. But we only have but so much time in a day. Um, and I also want to ensure that the folks that I'm connecting with are really serious about running their own, a freelance developer business. Uh, and so, uh, for me, my process is that, and this is all I built all this on are using WordPress. And so essentially what they do is they book a call and uh, during that scheduling process they fill out a, just a very short form, right? Some people call this a survey or a questionnaire or even a quiz, but just fill out a very short survey which will give me a better idea of where you are and whether or not you have, I would say the time and resources available, uh, to, to work together and based on the survey that allows me to know whether or not this will likely be a good fit, then we proceed with conducting the call. Or I get to pretty much a know you a little bit more, uh, and your aspirations. And then on that call definitely cements whether or not it's a good fit or not.

Nathan Wrigley: 16:27 I'm quite lucky in that a lot of my business comes locally so I do end up in the car quite a lot. So I conduct meetings face to face. But, um, um, I'm interested to see if anybody's got any thoughts on this. You know, when this podcast goes out, I'd be interested to see if anybody does this for their, for their regular website business. You know, the, the people that are just building websites for clients, whether or not they employ this strategy because I think, I think that's really nice. The idea that you, you speak to somebody not on the phone but face to face before, I think that would, as you say, it would qualify an awful lot better. So, okay. Let's move on to the, the two products that you have at the moment. So you've got two distinct things which you can find or invent with code.com.

Nathan Wrigley: 17:09 Forward slash courses. Um, there's one called the freelance developer masterclass and that seems more like the, well, for want of a better word, the entry level, um, thing that you're offering. And then the, the, the more, um, the more fully featured if you like, or I suppose it's catering to a different audience, people who have perhaps got more experiences propel your business. Should we in into a certain amount of detailed breakdown, the first one, freelance developer masterclass, I'd like to know specifically what's in it, um, who it's targeted at and all of that good stuff.

Hahna: 17:42 Absolutely. So we can consider the freelance developer master class as like the undergraduate level and then the your business as the graduate level. Okay. And so for the freelance developer masterclass, we show you how to go from zero to $10,000 with your freelance developer business, um, over 90 days. And it's the only done with you freelance developer training program that truly provides a complete a to z system for become your own boss and getting more clients and making more money at the end of the day because who doesn't want to do that? Right? Uh, and so for the free ice developer masterclass, you get access, you get lifetime access to the, uh, curriculum in which we will crack your freelance strategy, will determine who your ideal audiences, um, because a lot of people try to sell everything to everyone, uh, which ends up you selling nothing to no one.

Hahna: 18:39 And so we really want to identify who are the right prospects, uh, for you to attract so that you can sell the right thing to the right person. We identify what those services you'll offer. Um, as well as the, uh, pricing a lot of people, a lot of web developers ask me, well, how do I price my services? Right? I don't want to come into low. I don't want to seem like I'm ripping people off. So we really dive into how to properly price your services. We also show you how to craft a compelling portfolio because that is your first impression, uh, for prospect clients. So we want to ensure that you're putting your best foot forward. And then we really dive into the marketing and sales, uh, showing you, you know, over 42 ways of how to attract high converting clients as well as the sales process so that when you meet with a that prospect, you're closing the deal, uh, you know, during that first meeting.

Hahna: 19:34 Um, and then lastly, we go into, you know, how to, um, manage your different projects, especially if you're juggling multiple projects, how to manage your clients, including managing multiple clients and then how to manage your business. A lot of, uh, folks that are starting out, they get caught up working in their business and the day to day routine and so they don't have enough time to really work on their business. And so we show them how to manage their business so that they can grow and scale over time. And so that's the main, that's the core curriculum of the fans developer master class. Um, but I also provide, uh, several bonuses as well. So you'll get for a one on one personalized coaching calls, uh, the 30 minutes each. We can do that either over Skype or over the phone because I really want to get to know the people that I'm working with and more about their journey, but also allows the students to ask questions so that they're always moving forward.

Hahna: 20:33 Right? And so on these calls, I want our web developers to fail fast, fail often, and fail forward. And so these group coaching calls really keeps them on track to meeting their goals. We also, uh, provide group coaching. So not only getting feedback from myself every two weeks I'm on these group coaching calls, but you also get feedback from the community. Uh, you also get access to the exclusive Facebook mastermind for daily community support. And the three other bonuses that are really, uh, enjoy offering is the protect your business package where a lot of web developers who are new to starting their own business need to know how to protect themselves from, you know, being taken advantage of by clients, ensuring that they get paid, but also ensuring that they don't get sued. Right. And so, so we offered your, you know, protect your business package and I will personally, um, audit your a freelancing profile and your, you're freelancing portfolio so that you can get direct feedback on, um, how to make it even better. And then lastly, for those that don't think that they're a master of their craft, right? Cause some, some folks feel a little intimidated by the word masterclass. They don't think that they're ready yet, but I'll let you know. You're definitely ready where you are. Uh, but I do provide a free access to my freelance developer jumpstart course, uh, which will allow you to land your first client in seven days so you can just hit the ground running. Um, so all of that comes with the, the freelance developer masterclass.

Nathan Wrigley: 22:05 When you, when you were talking about that, you talked, um, rather a lot, I can't remember the exact language you used, but you said we'll, we'll help you do this and we'll, we'll do this for you. So it's kind of sounds like, aside from the, um, the coaching calls and the, you know, the one on one bits and pieces, it sounded like you, you sort of getting personally involved. I'm just interested because I've, I've been on courses, not like this one specifically, but been on, you know, uh, business development courses and things like that online. And the way it's worked in the past has been, I've signed up, paid my money, got access to the course. It's kind of an LMS system. So I watch a bunch of videos, um, fill out a questionnaire to prove that I can go on the next step, download some documentation, which might have some templated emails or something, something to help me along my road. And then I go onto the next video and watch the next video. Is that how this works? Is it a series of structured videos or is it, um, tech space, you know, like word documents or something like that? Or is it more, um, speaking with you personally? Um, you know, uh, working towards speaking you personally in between times?

Hahna: 23:13 Yeah, so it's a hybrid approach for me. I try to make it as engaging and interactive as possible. Uh, but I also know that we all have our own schedules and we're all at different points in life. Uh, so I also want to be able to provide a self study resources so that you can truly go at your own pace. So all the material is hosted, uh, currently as the date of this podcast is currently hosted on teachable. Uh, so you get access, you get full immediate access, um, to all 10 modules of the course. It's a combination of um, video, audio as well as transcripts, um, in different, uh, texts content. Um, and then within the, uh, in addition to that, which is mostly self paced, um, that's where the, you can schedule your coaching calls, um, truly interact with the community on, on Facebook, uh, for both the daily Community Support in the group coaching. Um, and so all of that altogether and we have an awesome community. I'm sure, uh, you can speak to this as well for, for WP Builds, but, um, the community is very helpful, very engaged, and they also want to see you succeed. So with myself plus the community, uh, we can help everyone along the way. Um, depending upon where they are.

Nathan Wrigley: 24:31 Did you, um, when you were sort of putting this together, did you put together like a summary of all of the, the bits of pieces in the course? Is there like a, uh, like a contents page if you like, where we could go and see what the individual elements are one by one and work out if, if most of that we don't need or we do need,

Hahna: 24:51 yeah, so for, um, I do have a, a content page on the sales page. Um, it does list out, uh, the curriculum. Um, and one of the purposes of the call is to really identify where the web developer is on their journey. Right. Whether or not they're starting out or they have started, but they're just not getting clients. Um, and so the reason why I provide full, immediate access, um, to the course so that you can jump in exactly, uh, in the material where it's the most relevant, applicable to you. Um, I always find it frustrating where, um, material gets dripped out and I'm like, I already know this already knows this. Yeah. Um, you know, when am I actually going to learn something new or something, um, valuable. And so, um, for me providing full access and jumping on the call, then I can provide a more personalized roadmap of how they can go about navigating the material.

Nathan Wrigley: 25:48 Yeah. I think you mentioned 90 days there was this sort of 90 day, um, aspirational target of getting a certain amount of money in a certain amount of time for your business and you know, make, make yourself feel more positive and buoyant about it. Or if somebody was to sign up for this, is this a 90 day sort of pay world thing? Uh, in other words, after 90 days, does their access cease or do they, do they get ongoing access thereafter for everything? Or just the Facebook group or just the, I don't know. Maybe that's something worth talking about.

Hahna: 26:20 Yeah, absolutely. Um, and so in the pursuit of wanting to, to monetize your coding skills, say as a freelance web developer, um, I provide lifetime access, uh, to the material, everything is downloadable. Um, and so, you know, whether, uh, you're on the go and you just want to watch it on your phone for example, but you get lifetime access. So even, uh, the 90 days, um, you still get access to that. You also still get a free access at this time on the recording. You get free access to, uh, the community. And so even after the 90 days, you can stay within our, our, um, our Facebook group, ask questions, engage with community, ask questions for me, participate and the group coaching calls. Because at the end of the day, I want to see you succeed. Right. And again, going back to my personal enjoyment is helping people become their best self in life and in their career. And so whenever I can do to help, um, I don't want money to necessarily get, get in the way of that. Right? Yeah.

Nathan Wrigley: 27:24 Yeah. Okay. Well, good answer. So as it is at the moment of the, the date that we recording is that you get access to everything in perpetuity. But it sounded like the way you were phrasing that, um, it sounded like that that may change in the future depending on how it goes. I guess

Hahna: 27:39 I will say with, with how it grows. Um, and as well as the, um, just how the course of all. Um, because I'm always engaging with my audience and with my students, I'm updating the material often and adding even more value into it. Um, and so as the course evolves, I know as does the, the business side of things, right? So, Yep.

Nathan Wrigley: 28:02 Yup. Okay. So that's nice. We now know about what the, the, the undergraduate level freelance developer masterclasses. So then we've got the, the, the postgraduate level, the, the m a or what have you, all of your services. So this is called propel your business. What's, what's the difference? Who is the same day? Is it worth, is it worth striking out on the second one before the first one or should you always go through the first one? Tell us about propel your business.

Hahna: 28:30 Sure. So propel your business evolved after creating a freelance developer masterclass. So after the students have gone through that, um, they're asking, well, you know, is there a more, right, I want to continue working with you. Uh, I want to continue growing my business. How can we do that? Um, and so this really came out of, uh, the need of the community and the propel your business. Um, the course is focused more on, um, personalized coaching and consultations where, uh, for, for folks that already have an established business, um, whether they're working on it, um, say full time or, or even part time, but they really just want to take their business to that next level. Um, either there they've plateaued, um, or they just want to continue growing and scaling, but they just don't know how to do it, um, efficiently or in a cost effective way.

Hahna: 29:24 Um, and so with that, uh, I continue with the m four coaching calls. So you get the four a one on one coaching calls. Uh, we still do the group coaching together, but I would say the key difference here is that, you know, I'm dedicating more of my time to provide you with, um, and even more personalized roadmap to identify the bottlenecks in your business, um, that is preventing you from achieving that business growth that you want. Um, and so my goal is that by working with you, we will, um, double your sales in six months or less, um, and pretty much providing you with that roadmap of how to achieve that result.

Nathan Wrigley: 30:06 And again, is this something that you would, you would vet people as it were, you would give them an insight into whether this was worth it for them if they go through your soul preamble cold at the beginning?

Hahna: 30:17 Absolutely. Um, because at the end of the day, I want to make sure that it's a good fit for both of us. Right? Um, and I always say that, uh, for the people that I help, um, I'm only successful if they're successful. Uh, and so I want to ensure that, um, one the person is serious about doubling their business or just truly growing at an exponential way. Um, but also they have, uh, the time and resources to really commit to this intensive, um, because it really is a high touch, very personalized. And I want to ensure that, um, you're ready to sit at the table and make this happen.

Nathan Wrigley: 30:55 Do you, um, uh, have you enjoyed this process? I mean, just from a personal point of view, you've, you've pivoted, you've moved away from, um, teaching how to coach or we say that's just sum it up like that. And now you're into this helping people make their businesses work better. Are you enjoying this process? Is that a lot of hard work? Are there unexpected things that you didn't kind of c four c on the, on the way?

Hahna: 31:18 I would say for me, I love it. I mean, the fact that I'm up at 7:00 AM talking about, you know, business and how to monetize your coding skills. I definitely, uh, have a, a true passion for this. And for me it's the motivation is just seeing the impact that it has on people's lives, right? The fact that, um, they can start their own business, uh, many folks are want to be able to provide an additional income for their family. Um, and so just seeing the impact that not only that it has on the individual, but also in their family, it's, it's very, uh, empowering. Um, and so if I can help one person start their own business to help out in their community and other small businesses and it's all worth it.

Nathan Wrigley: 32:07 Is this something that you're going to do as a full time thing? Is, do you have this as your full time thing? Do you have other things going on at the same time? And this is something you do on a part time basis?

Hahna: 32:18 Absolutely. I would say with, with the audience that I've, that I've grown, um, and, and the clients that I've helped, um, I can definitely see this growing into a, a, a full time Gig. Right? I always say, I always ask myself, well, what do I want to do after I retire? Right? Yes. Um, and it's exactly this, right? So rather than waiting until I'm, say 65, let's just do it now. Right. Yeah. And so, so I really enjoy being able to do this and being able to have the time to dedicate to my clients to help them achieve their goals.

Nathan Wrigley: 32:55 Um, what would you say are the sort of quick wins that you've discovered? I mean, I know the intention here isn't so extract from you all of the hard work that you've done inside your course, but I was just wondering if you could help us give us, like for example, if we take the undergraduate level costs, the freelance developer masterclass, what are the, what are some of the common themes which come up some things which people could implement straightaway, um, that might improve their, their, their ability to get clients and keep clients.

Hahna: 33:24 Sure. Uh, so I would say the biggest thing is, is the, the Aha moment, uh, of them, of folks realizing, um, that they already have what it takes to get clients. A lot of folks believe that they're not good enough or they're not ready yet. Um, and I really show them how they can use their immediate network, um, as well as their community to find clients. And for me, like I always see the, the light bulb go off where they didn't realize of who they could go and reach out to of have people that they know to build them a website. A lot of, a lot of web developers starting out, uh, feel that only they have to go on upwork, um, to, to get clients. And really that's really there where they traditionally start. Um, and I show them unconventional methods of, um, getting clients, uh, within, you know, their networks within their community. Um, and just seeing people actually take action and put themselves out there is, it's a huge one for them. Um, and you know, right now I have someone that is trying to land a client in their local community and they never would have thought of reaching out to, uh, to this particular business. Um, and they're doing it and it's, it's been pretty awesome.

Nathan Wrigley: 34:49 Yeah, that is quite nice. Um, any others? Any other little things apart from, you know, um, how to find clients, any of the little quick nuggets that you want to give away?

Hahna: 35:00 Um, sure. So another, I would say quick nugget is a four when it, when it comes to, um, pricing. Um, a lot of folks I would say they say that they just offer like one thing. Um, but I introduced them to um, different ways that they can create packages or tears, um, for their, their business and um, as simple as it sounds, but it doesn't really come across our cross people's minds is usually they think, okay, they build the website and then they're done. Right. Um, and just introducing different ways, different retainers, uh, to keep that client on board. Um, as well as, for example, if they're offering a package that might be outside of someone's budget of being able to set up more what I call a membership or um, an all access pass where, um, rather than paying out for something full price and say, rather than paying, um, $1,000, I'm out for something that, or let's say, yeah, let's just say $500 for example, for like a landing page. Um, they can actually just break that up into a membership price of say, Hey, you get, you know, pay $50 a month for example. Um, and you get access to a variety of my services brought rather than just this one thing that you're asking for. Um, therefore it makes it more affordable and the client gets more value.

Nathan Wrigley: 36:34 Yeah, that's interesting. So it's like a membership of low, I do website care plans, but it's very much you pay for this thing and these are the, this is the laundry list of stuff that you get and if you pay more, you get these things but not these things and so on. So you're a bit more bit more mix mix and match them that, oh, that's interesting. Do you also have a, do you have a, like a, a network, obviously you've been in this business of writing code and being employed by people for years and years. Do you have a, is that something that you offer as well? Do you, do you actually go out and help find the work for people? Um, or is this very much self help advice?

Hahna: 37:11 So since I'm tapped into different networks, uh, I definitely take the time to advertise different opportunities within the group. Um, as well as providing the opportunity of members to self promote within the group. We have a thread where you can, um, offer different services because at the end of the day, we would love to do everything ourselves, but we can't do the time and we all know our strengths and weaknesses. So I really enjoy connecting people together who can help each other out. Right. Um, and so for me, um, being able to build relationships across communities and advertise, um, how pretty much a win win for everyone. Um, I definitely enjoy providing that to the group.

Nathan Wrigley: 37:58 Nice. Well thank you. Um, we've reached sort of the, the, the, the normal amount of time that we go for these podcasts. So if it's okay with you, I'm going to knock it on the head as I say or we say in the UK, but before then, um, if there's anything you would like to say, any URL and email address, any Twitter and law, so on that we might be able to find you should this have piqued our interest, go for it.

Hahna: 38:21 Absolutely. Uh, so again, I'm Hahna Kane Latonick with a inventwithcode. You can check out my website and vent with co.com. You can email me Hahna at inventwithcode .com. Uh, W I would like to your audience a free 30 minute consultation. Um, and so you can schedule that inventwithcode.com forward slash consulting. Um, definitely if you're interested in propelling your business, download our, uh, double your business checklist. We go over 50 different ways, over 50 different ways of how to double your business. So you can grab that at invent with code .com forward Slash D Y B, that's short for double your business. And then lastly, if you're interested, um, in the masterclass are had encouraged me to apply at inventwithcode.com forward slash apply.

Nathan Wrigley: 39:12 Oh, groovy. Thank you. Thank you. That's really interesting. So if you're a developer and you're maybe new to this game or you are struggling to find clients or you want to, you know, increase the amount of clients that you've already got, Hahna Hahna has, um, all sorts of resources and you can reach out to her and um, avail yourself of her free 30 minute consultation in which you'll find out whether you're a fit for her and she's a fit for you. So thanks very much for coming on today, Hahna. Much obliged.

Hahna: 39:42 My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Nathan Wrigley: 39:45 Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. I really appreciate it. I hope that Hahna came Lutonix messages meant something to you. Perhaps something that she said, we'll have appealed to you if you're a coder and struggled to run your business than maybe some of the things that she was mentioning today might ring a bell and it's maybe something you want to explore a little bit further. The WP Builds podcast was brought to you today by WP&UP one in four of us will be directly affected by mental health related illness, WP&UP supports and promotes positive mental health within the WordPress community. This is achieved through mentorship, events, training and counseling. Please help enable WP&UP by visiting WP and aarp.org forward slash give together. We can press forward, so please is the message that I gave out right at the beginning of this podcast. If you're at WordCamp Europe this week, please hook up. That would be lovely. Joined me in the Facebook group. Tag me at to Nathan Wrigley or at WP Builds on Twitter. It would be very nice to catch up with some of you join us on Monday when I will potentially release the news. It might be late this week because of my, uh, doing stuff at WordCamp Europe. If it's late, I apologize. It might come out a day later, but nevertheless, join us then and join us next Thursday for the podcast. I will fade in some cheesy music. Bye Bye for now.

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