This Week in WordPress #219

[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for this week in WordPress episode number 219 entitled Manatee tank. It was recorded on Monday, the 1st of August, 2022, my name's Nathan Wrigley. And as always, I'm joined by some superb WordPress guests. This week. I am joined by Jess Frick. I'm also joined by Adam Warner and Daniel Schutzsmith.

It's a WordPress podcast. So you can guess what we're gonna talk about. It's the WordPress news from this week, and there's quite a lot. WordPress 13.7 has got some nice, cool updates, including the ability to add lots of custom templates all over your WordPress website. What about the ability to add a dominant color background to any images that's come from the performance team as well?

Does WordPress need a new name for full site editing or is it all a bit of WP drama? There's a whole load of talk this week. About some future events. We've got word Fest coming up. We've got the WP accessibility day and various other things. We've also gonna be talking about Ws form and a hat tip to Cameron Jones, who is often in the chat.

When we do this show live. Lastly Facebook, their profits are down the tiniest little bit, but does it mean doom? What do we think about Facebook? It's all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro. The home of manage WordPress hosting. That includes free domain SSL and 24 7 support. Bundle that with The Hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients and get 30% of new purchases. Find out [email protected] forward slash wP Builds.

Hello? Oh, that hurt more than I expected. Hello everybody. I'm gonna need my glass of water, my trusted glass of water.

During this episode, we're on episode number 219 of this week in WordPress. Guess what? We're gonna talk about motor cut. No, we're gonna talk about WordPress. Believe it or not. And I'm joined by three fabulous people in order to help me do that. And you've seen all of them before. I'm sure, but let's go round first off.

I'm gonna introduce Jess Frick. How you doing Jess?

[00:02:35] Jess Frick: Fantastic. I'm so excited to be here with you. Yeah.

[00:02:38] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much for joining us again, Jess. Frick's a regular on the show. You might call her a co-host and she is the director of operations for pressable. She is an iced tea Cona and a proud member of the post status C.

and thank you for joining us, Jess. We're also joined by Adam Warner. Who is, can I do it? Yes. First time. I dunno. How you doing Adam? Yo, how you know how it feels? How are you doing Adam? I'm doing very

[00:03:06] Adam Warner: well. Nathan, thank you. Good to see you. Daniel and Jess and word, press community. Yeah.

[00:03:12] Nathan Wrigley: Adam is the director of field marketing at GoDaddy and his role Adam raises brand awareness through events and community discussions.

He also manages activations with GoDaddy pros, marketing team, focusing on web designers, content creators in WordPress and website developers prior to joining GoDaddy. Adam was the co-founder of food plugins more on that later, which provides high quality standards, compliant, WordPress and J query plugins.

Yeah. Thank you for joining us, Adam. And finally Daniel Schutzsmith. How you doing Daniel? Good. Oh yeah. Yeah. You got, yeah, you got op ops. Easy. Anybody can do op you pointed Jess, go Daniel right now at Jess first time. It's always wrong. Go with, you've got. Tells you not to do Daniel is the leader at Pines.

I've high pronounced that, right? Is it pins Pinellas or pin Pinellas? I do Pinellas county government overseeing all of the public facing websites and in interactive experiences to help the public get the information they need easily, and intuitively when not work working, he enjoys giving back his time to the WordPress community as a word camp organizer.

He did that in 2022 at us 2020 Miami in 2020 WC in New York city in 18. He's a meetup organization organizer for the Newport richly, WordPress meetup, a producer at the double WP minute. And also through several side projects, WP live streams, directory. That's a good initiative. I love things like that.

WP talks spaces on Twitter, the WordPress, Twitter community organizer, and tiny press email. I'm going to take a breath, cuz that was rather a lot. Daniel. You do a lot,

[00:04:55] Daniel Schutzsmith: I did add it, but I didn't save it. So I couldn't see

[00:04:58] Nathan Wrigley: it. I know what you added as well. I, more or less can guarantee. Is it your nice, shiny new job?

[00:05:04] Daniel Schutzsmith: Yeah. Yeah. I actually twined I paired it down for you to make it a little bit easier because I am, I'm

[00:05:11] Nathan Wrigley: doing something. Okay. Oh, okay. For next time we'll maybe we could just do a Bitly link or something like that. Is Daniel's bio gonna Bitly link. But thank you for joining us all three of you.

I really appreciate it. If you would like to join us in the conversation today, we'd really appreciate that the more comments the merrier if you want to remain anonymous, you can do that on Facebook, but where's the fun in that in all honesty. What you've gotta do on Facebook, if you're in the Facebook group, it's head to that URL.

It's chat.restream.io/fb. Once more chat.restream.io/fb. And that allows Facebook to give us your name, avatar and so on and so forth, but please drop a comment in if you would feel. Like you are willing pause this or open up a new tab and go and share it. We're at WPbuilds.com/live at this exact moment.

And yeah, it'd be nice to have some people joining us. In addition to what we've got right now, having said that we've got a few people we've got we've got Adam's. Adam's colleague Mayer. How are you doing? Hello everyone. She says that's nice to have you with us. We've also got a new name.

I don't think I've come across this one before. I'm just gonna have to increase the size of my monitor cuz it's so tiny. Jerone roti. Thanks for joining us. Indeed. Cameron Jones as always the ultra reliable camera and Cameron stay around cuz you are featured on today's show, which is quite nice.

We've got a Facebook user. We've got a dog and we've got somebody saying good morning, everybody. It's nickel. Chowdry is that your dog by any chards Jess

[00:06:50] Jess Frick: it's one of the three and nickel works with me here at pressable oh yeah. It was just like happening at the

[00:06:57] Nathan Wrigley: same time. Ah it's okay. It's okay.

It's okay. Comment two says Jerome. Okay. Let's get stuck into the offense today, honestly. Jess, do not feel bad about your dog if your dog well, unless your dog literally means that we can't carry on, just ignore it. I don't care in the slightest. I'm sure our listeners will not mind either. Okay.

Loads of WordPress stuff going on this week. This is our website. WP Builds.com. Look at that, sponsored by Goda pro, check that out. And if you fancy joining us, either subscribe page, just here, right at the top, this little link, fancy joining us, go and subscribe to all the stuff that we do. Let's get stuck in.

Let me get rid of that little thing first here we. Some exciting news on the Gutenberg front 13.7 round the corner, and it expands custom template capabilities. Now, whole tight. This is actually dead. Cool. The other stuff, I'm not that bothered about the estimated reading time, not that fast about personally, but the capabilities inside of the template engine here are absolutely brilliant.

And I'm just gonna quote it's Sarah Gooding Gutenberg 13.7 was released this week with major updates to full site editing capabilities that expand custom template creation users can now create templates for custom taxonomies. There's quite a nice list. This custom taxonomies specific terms, single categories in tags.

The update also includes the ability to create templates for specific pages. So basically now ForSight editing is getting to be fully mature. If you can, more or less, imagine it. And it's attached to a category, a page or. Oh a tag, any of those kind of things you can create with no code using the full site, editing features a template.

And I think person, that's very exciting. As I said, a couple of extra things. This has been added the time to read. I'm guessing it pulls the amount on the page and figures out roughly how long it would take to read that's been added. And also this is quite cool as well. The block locking feature, I find that hard to say the block locking feature is getting much more granular.

And what you can now do is you can just tick a parent item and anything that's nested below that let's say in a group or a cover or a column will inherit the permission. So you can lock people and lock people out. Maybe we want to talk about the block locking. He said, slow. Totally. I'm just scared of swearing, frankly, that tends to be what happens.

And we be talk about the time to read thing, but I suspect we'll wanna talk about this template thing. We're at the point now where WordPress core can do an absolute boatload and as always just interrupt as soon as the idea takes you. And don't worry about crosstalking, we'll figure it out between us.

So it's over to you.

[00:09:51] Daniel Schutzsmith: I'm actually pretty excited about the whole, concept of templates and everything going on here. We've been able to do it in code so far, but we haven't been able to do it, just, no code, just clicking and making new ones. So that to me is one of the missing pieces that I've been waiting for.

But one of the things that I was gonna point out too is I never knew Justin Tadlock was actually still working in WordPress. I thought his

[00:10:18] Nathan Wrigley: lead. Oh yeah. He's now working as a developer relations. Yeah, cuz there's a quote here. There just it's it was so weird reading that I'm just gonna read on the screen.

It says automatic sponsored contributor. Justin Tadlock gave a walk through. I was like, I actually knew that reading. It made me double take yeah. Sorry. I interrupted Daniel. Carry on.

No, go ahead.

[00:10:45] Adam Warner: I also was happy and surprised to, to see his name there as well. WordPress is better for him being involved for sure.

I'm super excited for single category editing. It's something that I remember really struggling with se many years ago. Trying to figure out how to customize category archive pages. And I remember working back and forth with messaging of a developer of a category customization plugin.

And there were limitations in tiny CE that weren't allowing, cuz you basically had to bring that in to every page. And this is huge news. I think it's a huge step in the right direction. Anxious to look anxious, to look deeper. Yeah.

[00:11:40] Jess Frick: Anything for your chest? I that too. I like that too, but I'm unlike Nathan.

I am very excited about the time to read.

[00:11:46] Nathan Wrigley: Ah, there you go. That's cool.

[00:11:48] Jess Frick: I'm telling you for like psychologically, it makes all the difference into whether I'm gonna like. Decide to invest in this article because sometimes people will write something that you can read in five minutes and then you get hooked five minutes in and you realize you've got another 20 to go because they're going all the way.

I just need to know if it's gonna be 20 minutes up

[00:12:08] Adam Warner: front. I have to agree with you there, Jess. Sorry, Nathan, go ahead. No go. You can't remember. I was just gonna say it's. It really is with, with our daily schedules and the plethora of DMS and emails and messages and multiple platforms.

It's for me, it's rare that I sit down and have. Focus time to read and absorb long form articles and having that timestamp right there. It goes, oh yeah, I can fit this in between my 15 minutes before my next meeting. So I do find it pretty helpful. Although I could do better at blocking time to do focus, work articles.

The time really helps. Sadly it's

[00:12:56] Nathan Wrigley: like buying a bigger. He's not gonna take that on for you, Adam. WordPress course not gonna, he's not gonna block your time, but okay. So that's cool. Jess and Adam, that's really great because I glibly just assumed that was of no interest to anybody.

And it turns out that was a great interest to the pair of you. So that's brilliant. And it just goes to show shut up, Nathan, frankly. And yeah, no, that's brilliant. The custom category thing though, Adam, I think you are right. I think there's so much power in just the categories, and it's right there in WordPress.

It already ships with the category feature and you can just create them as many as you like. And if you're doing a, I don't know, an one about, let's say you do a website about football clubs. You could just. Categories for every single football club and then dress it up with their football strip and all of that.

And you could so much power just behind that one feature. And the fact that it's now available. Point click fiddle save is now I'm in a copyright that point, click, fiddle, save, click

fiddle,

[00:13:59] Adam Warner: save. I like that. Say that

[00:14:01] Nathan Wrigley: 10 times fast piddle me. Yeah. It's better than lock locking. It's a lot easier than that.

Anyway. I think that's really cool. The the group locking not, I personally won't be using that a lot, but I. For teams and so on. Really cool. Anyway, coming to a WordPress install near you, and it's getting more and more like the page builders that you've been, the proprietary page builders and the feature sets that they've had for all these years.

Excellent. Okay. Just a couple more comments. There's a few people that have dropped in. If you don't mind panel, we'll just quickly say hello to them. That's nice. Oh, Jerome. We met apparently at a picnic, the picnic in Porto. That's nice. Sabrina Sudan. Hello Sabrina. Very nice to have you with us as well.

And Beth saying, Hey Adam Warner long time. And, oh my goodness. There's quite a few comments from these folk and I will probably hold fire on those and have a read of them while somebody else is talking moment. Let's move on to the next piece. Okay. This is okay. When I first read this, I thought, shall I include this?

Shall I not include this? It doesn't seem of all that great interest. But then when I saw it and saw some of the comments and how effusive they were, I thought, actually, let's throw this in. This is a proposal to add a dominant color background to images. So if you're looking at the screen, you're immediately gonna get the point because there's a there's a sort of like animated GIF.

Maybe it's a video. Let me just play it. There's a video on the screen, which displays what's going on. Basically the idea would be that in the future, if you upload an image as it's being as it's being created on the WordPress backend, it will scan the image and figure out what the majority color is.

So let's say it's like a gray or something like that, then it will assign that to the image. And if you've got something like lazy loading, It will just create a background to that image, such that it occupies the space where that image will ultimately load into. Sounds like a nothing, except when you see it.

And if you were on, let's say, I don't know, affordable hosting and images were big and they were taking a long time to load. You got a problem with the server. This just gives you some sort of visual idea. I'm guessing as well, it'll help with things like content layout shift, but I'm not sure if it will, to be honest but little tiny thing, but I think very cool.

And in the comments below, lots of people saying actually, Jonathan Drows, this is really great and something I support, he says. And so I've included it to see what you guys think. So over to you.

[00:16:38] Adam Warner: I think from a user experience standpoint, it's just beautiful. Yeah. It's like you said, it's a simple thing a bit of a simple touch on the surface.

But I think for when you look at the overall experience of someone visiting a WordPress site, but those users that are creating them, I think it's just, it's really slick.

[00:17:04] Jess Frick: Yeah. I really love it too. For those who haven't yet played with the performance lab plugin, it's actually available in there.

Now, the proposal is to add it to core for WordPress six one. But I gotta be honest with you. Everything we were talking about it before it started everything, the performance team does is just solid gold. They're brilliant over there.

[00:17:31] Nathan Wrigley: I agree. Yeah. The performance team are really performing exit stage left pretty much that's right.

I need a symbol sound. Yeah, no, but they are. It's they've been around for the shortest amount of time and they seem to be turbo charged with really cool ideas and really great things. So even if they haven't executed on all of them, the chatter that's coming and the things that they are trying to do are just on fire.

It's I'm really pleased that team now exists. It's phenomenal. And yes, you're right. I forgot to mention that it is in the performance lab. Plugin and links will be in the show notes tomorrow. You'll be able to link to this piece. It's sync.wordpress.org. And the piece is called proposal. Add a document color background to images so you can find it.

Daniel. Sorry, you haven't had your say.

[00:18:20] Daniel Schutzsmith: I was just gonna say I wonder too, if it has any accessibility quality to it, I don't know. First off it doesn't seem so, but maybe it's, because we're putting a cover there where normally there wouldn't be anything. Maybe it's a visual cue to people to know that there's an image loading or something.

[00:18:37] Nathan Wrigley: So looks like on the screen. Because somebody was saying, will it add a line of CSS to each image and the reply to that was no, here's the CSS. And essentially it spits out it spits out dominant color data point, which is just looks like a hex tag, a interesting, so it just adds very little by the looks of it.

But yeah, I'm just showing it on the screen. I won't try to explain it to listeners. I

[00:19:08] Daniel Schutzsmith: wonder how it works with black and white photos,

[00:19:11] Adam Warner: Is black yeah. What does it choose? I guess the dominant color still. Yeah.

[00:19:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. That's a good point because if you are if your background was white and all of the image were dominant white, it just look exactly like it always would've done.

[00:19:27] Daniel Schutzsmith: It's it's gonna look amazing on photography sites. That's for sure. Yeah. So anyone that has a lot of rich photography on there and galleries like that, it's gonna, it's gonna

[00:19:35] Nathan Wrigley: look really cool. Do we know why this was taken on Jess? You were talking about the performance team. Do you know why this fell under the umbrella of performance and not something else?

Cause I was trying to make the link in my head with how this ties into performance. Is it content layout shift? Is it that, do you know. I

[00:19:53] Jess Frick: don't know the exact answer I'm on the hosting team and it was brought to us as a proposal. So my insider knowledge is limited to that. Yeah. I knew it was in the performance lab plugin.

I would imagine it's performance because it relates to the user experience with lazy loading, like you said, and, hopefully that will encourage more people to use it.

[00:20:15] Nathan Wrigley: I'll read what it says on the screen, cuz it's a perception. Yeah. It says blah, blah, blah, continuing WordPress efforts to improve performance members of the performance team have created a feature that identifies the dominant color of an image and adds it as a CSS background to the image tags this.

So here we go. This is the bit, this gives the viewer user a visual placeholder while the image is loading resulting in an improved, in an improvement to the perceived performance and user experience. So it's obviously adding a tiny, teeny, tiny bit of extra code, that's probably not gonna have much of an impact, but it's more the perception.

Okay. There's something there that ought to be there in a minute. And you're not getting that dissonance of like content layout shift where you scroll and then suddenly the bot that you're about to press disappears off the screen. Okay. So maybe that answers. Anyway, very cool. Two new word, Pressy things hot off the press.

We have a goad event coming up. This is WordPress is a design system. Really? It's an online event and I'm gonna quote, it says full site editing, which we've just been talking about is in its infancy. It's time to discover just what you can do for you, what it can do for you and how you can use it to design your site.

It's a live event, this page, which will be linked in the show notes, but it's, you'll find [email protected] is gonna be taking place in a couple of days. Time. Let me just get the exact date and time. It's Wednesday, August 3rd at 8:00 PM. B S T and it says here in this presentation, you will learn what are block themes and where to get 'em.

What are templates and template parts, how to set styles to apply to your entire site and how to make your own theme and export it to use for other projects. It looks like it's being run by Bob Krause and yeah. Adam in particular, probably of interest to you being a GoDaddy person.

[00:22:15] Adam Warner: Sure it is.

For that reason since it's Maya LAN car on our team who is managing all of our AMEA time zone GoDaddy pro meetups, and we have the us time zone GoDaddy pro meetups. We've been doing those since April of 2020, we're in the several hundreds of meetups now. And the purpose is to bring users on, to talk to users.

And I'm especially interested in this one because My daily work, doesn't allow me much time to focus on my side projects. And just recently I connected with Courtney Robertson on my team who you may all know who's been running training events on full site editing through learn.wordpress.org.

Also through our Godad pro meetups. And I need to get up to speed on all of the intricacies of using full site editing. So we jumped into my site learned a lot and made some good changes, but then got stuck in a couple of places. I'm really looking forward to this one. ,

[00:23:27] Nathan Wrigley: it was almost, it was like you, it was almost like you'd prompted Courtney at that point.

because Courtney literally dropped into the comments. The moment you said that her ears were burning he was just being nice about you, Courtney, which is which is good to know. Yeah. And jest did the whole, the, whatever, the heart thing. Yeah. Courtney's doing an amazing job over there producing an awful lot of amazing content.

So let me just reiterate that time once more, for those of you. Woo. For those of you interested in learning about full site editing, who stress da it says it's perfect. You new to WordPress, so don't be put off if WordPress is not your bag or it hasn't been for the longest time, or if you're thinking of changing your theme, or just curious to see what full site editing is all about.

I know a lot of paper bit put off, sorry, Adam come. I was just gonna say

[00:24:16] Adam Warner: that's where I was at. I needed to change my theme on my site. And so that's why we dove in there.

[00:24:24] Nathan Wrigley: It's a bit of a hot mess for a lot of people at the moment. There's a lot of people saying I can't use full site editing.

It's not matured enough, but maybe this is the time to give it a go. You may not be production ready with it, but you could at least get a grip on where things are going. So once again, Wednesday, 3rd of August. So a couple of days from now 8:00 PM BST, I guess it's showing me BST cuz of where I am, but yeah.

Anything to add to that Jess or Daniel or shall we. I was

[00:24:53] Daniel Schutzsmith: just gonna mention, oh no, go ahead. Go ahead, Jess. No, please. You. I was just gonna mention that I wholeheartedly think that the full site editing experience can completely be its own design system. And one thing I've been trying to push for the past few years is that concept of taking a literal design system and something like a sketch or a Figma or storybook, some other type of application, bringing that into WordPress and using that.

So in the past, we've done it with ACF and trying to do different things with that even before Gutenberg was running. And now, we've really tried to do it with, different types of blocks and different types of systems like cadence or element or whatever. So to me it's really exciting now that we have this capability built into WordPress core for FSC, because then we'll have that capability to really take something that was usually a static design and actually bring it in to make it a real system in place.

So what we can use. So Jess,

[00:25:52] Jess Frick: I was just gonna say, Adam, you could leave some room for the rest of us to be awesome in WordPress, you and your team. Just keep coming out with this super helpful content and contributing with no expectation of purchase. It's just, it's a little

[00:26:07] Nathan Wrigley: overwhelming and look, and then modesty just steps into the equation as well.

Cuz Courtney says the whole team does the work really or team really does the work and making content for LWP helps us log issues as we find them too, seeing Adam work through these. So through some things resulted in an issue like, ah, there you go. Yeah.

[00:26:24] Adam Warner: In fact, that was my very first issue logged for Gutenberg.

We had some trouble with the navigation block, but I wonder feature request for Figma or other design systems that perhaps Daniel and Jess and Nathan, you're more familiar with. We I'm familiar with Figma. Can we get an export to WordPress blocks from a design? Yeah.

[00:26:49] Daniel Schutzsmith: Bill Erickson and I, the other name escapes me of who he is working with, but they're working on something like that to oh, basically export from Figma.

And also wow. Yeah, there's someone else who is also working on that. I think it was, I think it was yeah, I can't remember the other person but that whole concept really of being able to export into the theme dot JS on is I think, where everyone's trying to go with it.

[00:27:15] Nathan Wrigley: That is, that would be incredible that, yeah, that really would be incredible.

Cuz suddenly the world of just designers opens up, doesn't it? You export pick WordPress I guess, or something similarly titled and year off to the race

[00:27:28] Daniel Schutzsmith: or, and it puts it into version control basically because Figma has version control built into it. But also if we're pushing that to a theme that JS that's, going into a GI repo usually or something like that, whereas right now we don't have much version control and it comes to FSC from what I've seen.

[00:27:43] Nathan Wrigley: Some of the nice comments coming in, this is we've really gone the full gamut of FSC things today. Haven't we it's been really enjoyable so far this conversation, once you figured out, says Beth FSC and have a stellar training course, then I will consider using it. Okay. Fair enough. A little bit more time there right now, learning curve makes my head hurt.

I can totally sympathize with that. Beth, because I think there is quite a lot of, I think the user experience in the proprietary page, but let's just say the word elemental for that in this particular case, it is, it's something to be matched still, isn't it. But maybe if we keep doing these episodes for long enough, it won't be too long before something comes along.

Are there any replays of these? Oh, okay. So straight at you, Adam. Are there any re or maybe Maya she's in the comments, any replays of these events?

[00:28:34] Adam Warner: Yes, absolutely. Every single meetup gets recorded and then we upload the replay and it's usually within 24 hours, sometimes in a matter of hours the replay does get sent out for the people who have registered and just just to be very clear when you register for any of our goad pro meetup events, you do not get put on a marketing email list.

Okay. , it's just to be updated of future events and that is.

[00:29:02] Nathan Wrigley: There you go.

[00:29:03] Jess Frick: And I'm on that list. So I love it because then I always know which ones I need to get to right away. Yep.

[00:29:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yep. And that list is hot. If there's quite a lot of stuff coming out. As you said each and every week, so several can we use that?

Our messaging Nathan? Yeah, that's right. That list is hot

[00:29:24] Adam Warner: And these events,

[00:29:25] Nathan Wrigley: they're hot. They're hot. Tiffany bridge saying FFC is the most fun I've had playing with WordPress since 2005. Do you know what Tiffany? It wasn't FSC, but I had a full on epiphany the other day where I was sitting, playing with WordPress and I had the exact same moment.

I was sitting there thinking I am enjoying this. And there were things that I should have been doing. And. Far more pressing of my time, but I just was, no, I'm enjoying this. I'm just gonna keep going on. And I have not had that for quite a long time. I don't even recall what it was, but I did get a moment of this is fun.

It's nice to explore new things. And I think there's a bit of each of us in the word press community that likes to play with new stuff. Oh yeah. We're not the kind of people that like to be told what to do and then carry on doing that same thing for the next year. We constantly like to be challenged and, have curve balls thrown at us and so on and so forth.

So I think there's a. There's a bit of this, which is keeping us all attentive and yep. Go and check out the event. Peach and Mary says what? I don't know why, but

[00:30:30] Adam Warner: She's. I think that was in response to the Figma export to theme Jason. Oh,

[00:30:34] Nathan Wrigley: I see. Okay. Got it. Got it. Go. Oh yeah. Look. So here she goes.

Seriously. That would be the answer to web flow. We'll speak about web flow in a minute picture, cuz it seems like web flow is on the rise. A little bit comments, comment in thick and fast. I actually can't keep up. So I'm just gonna cherry pick if that's all right. This is Courtney. Tiffany. Yes.

Signing up for the event. We'll email the replay. Oh, I apologize. That's basically a rehash of what Adam said. Let's move on. So that was full sight editing. Go

check

[00:31:04] Nathan Wrigley: it. Okay, this is a lovely community thing. Got a couple of nice community events. This is way off into the future. But nevertheless, nice to know that it's happening.

Word Fest live the 24 hour pretty epic event organized by big orange chart. Have planted their flag in the sand and told us when their next iteration of their event is gonna be, it's gonna be November the 18th, 2022. So I'm instructing you right now. Stop what you're doing. Go and head to your Google calendar or whatever it is that you are using and dump that in it's doesn't matter where you live on the planet.

Really you've only got excuse if you're living on Luna or Mars, because wherever you are on the planet they operate from. Basically they do a 24 hour thing. They start in Australia and head all the way around to the Pacific coast of the us. It's a fabulous event. And what they're looking for at the moment is speakers.

And boy, do they need a lot of speakers? I think the last time they ran this event, there was like 40 plus there was other ancillary things going on. So the total was much more significant than that was lots and lots. And fabulous events run by big orange chart who as you may or may not know is led by the fabulous Dan, maybe.

So any, anything to say about that? I was just planting it out there, but maybe some of you have got some nice commentary around that. I

[00:32:24] Adam Warner: do see that there is a theme this year listed there in the description. The theme is transformation, which yeah. Is interesting. Yeah. Makes me think I might submit or

[00:32:37] Nathan Wrigley: speak.

Ooh, you heard it here first. we'll come back. yeah, but if you are interested in speaking, they would greatly appreciate your contribution I'm sure. Okay. So if you wanna

[00:32:51] Jess Frick: support it, but you don't wanna speak, I'm sure the call for volunteers will come out soon and they need tons of volunteers

[00:32:57] Nathan Wrigley: to, yeah. This is one of those events and I've been on the other end of it.

And by that I don't mean that I've contributed a great deal of my time, sadly. But I have been part of the team that ran the live events a bit like I'm doing now. I have to say it. It is like television. They have a full on green room, which they run weeks in advance to make sure that your tech setup actually will work.

And they've got people who are running boxes, which are in different parts of the world, remotely accessing them and playing the adverts at different. Basically. It's amazing. The amount of coordination going on in the background is not your typical kind of WordPress summit. It's a full on experience and hat tip to Dan and the team at big orange chart.

I know Michelle frache who's often on here is a big part of that as well. So anyway, give them your support, big orange chart, it's word fest.live. And if you just go there, I'm sure you'll find the links. I

[00:33:55] Adam Warner: think one of my favorite things. Oh, sorry. No. I was just gonna say one, one of my favorite things about word Fest in particular.

One of my favorite things and one of my least favorite things is the schedule is the 24 hour schedule. We've had a, we've seen a few other events do that. I think the part that I love the most is that I get to hear from people in other parts of the world. You get some of that at word camps or at the larger regional word camps like us and Europe, but word Fest, I think just makes it much more accessible for people in all of the time zones.

And and for other people to learn from people in those time zones where we otherwise may not get to hear the knowledge that they share. Big fan.

[00:34:49] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you, Daniel. Jess, shall I just move on? Yeah. Okay. First of all, I hadn't realized this. I hadn't made the connection, but Courtney's just pointing out in the comments that you are all in Florida.

[00:35:03] Adam Warner: all in Florida over. I just, oh, that's funny know,

[00:35:07] Jess Frick: bring out the Peters and bass.

[00:35:10] Adam Warner: We just went to a natural Springs yesterday here in Florida and went swimming around.

[00:35:16] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, not the one on the pan.

[00:35:19] Adam Warner: No. Oh, not into one there. It was a, there are several we intended to go to one. We got there at nine in the morning and the, it was already full.

So we got turned away. No, not WABA blue Springs. So we ended up at Ponce DeLeon or not pond, but daily on Springs. That's a good one too, which was nice. Yeah, it was clear water experience. Very clear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was great.

[00:35:50] Nathan Wrigley: Jealous hot Springs. That's just, likeno

[00:35:53] Adam Warner: no, not. Oh, they were 72 degrees F and big Springs. I was . But

[00:35:59] Jess Frick: on that note, blue Springs, where he tried to go stays at a temperature during the winter. That's warm enough that all of the area manatees come and swim in there. Yeah. There are days where they will have hundreds of manatees in blue Springs,

[00:36:15] Nathan Wrigley: honestly, hanging out.

If I want to, if I wanna have any experience like that in the UK, I've gotta inflate a paddling pole and fill it with water. That's your and pray that the sun comes out. Oh, that's lovely. Oh, that I hadn't really made that connection. That's great. Peach and Mary saying, please give me good reasons for a client not to do a project on Weblo Figma then is your answer.

There you go. Okay. Let's move on another event I confess and I. I wonder if it's me just not paying enough attention this event I had not heard of before. So in sincere apologies to the organizers of this one, this is now, let me just find it, put the screen up. Here we go. This is the WordPress accessibility day 2022.

And I confess I'm thin on the ground in terms of detail. So I don't know if by accessibility day they're gonna do like a word Fest 24 hour push, or if it's just one, if it's just between the days of the second and the third, but it's very close to word Fest. It's the WordPress accessibility day, November the second to the third 2022.

And. Obviously it's all about accessibility. Their strap line goes like this. Join us for a free, oh, there we go. 24 hour virtual conference focused on building accessible websites in WordPress, participate as a speaker volunteer or attendee to learn how to build better websites that work for everyone, regardless of their abilities, age or situations.

This feels like the, and quite rightly the hot button topic of the moment. And if you wanna become involved, there are three options here. We've got a sponsorship option. We've got a volunteer option and we've got the speaker option and the website is called WP accessibility. Just nailed it. Dot day. How cool is that bag in that one?

WP accessibility.day. So go and check this one out. I'm sh is it me? Have I just missed this every time it's happened before? Where have I been under a rock?

[00:38:20] Daniel Schutzsmith: It happened I believe last year. Okay, as well. I think, so this is the second time. And I know this is large in part, a lot of the same folks that also run the WordPress accessibility meetup group are also part of this with some extra organizers on there as well.

And so I know they're actively looking for speakers, especially that can come in and talk about these things. So I think it's, across the board on anything accessibility in relation to WordPress,

[00:38:51] Nathan Wrigley: man, our community is just so bloom and cool. Yeah. Things like this going on just for that one particular aspect.

And then you've got word Fest at more or less at the same time, we'll be doing our summit a bit later as well, and all sorts of other things. And by the way, one of the main links in the nav on that website is join our email list. So there's maybe an opportunity for you to just keep in touch as they create their blog posts around it.

Jess, Adam, anything on that, or shall I press on? I just wanna throw

[00:39:16] Jess Frick: out a high five to WP Builds, friend bet. Who's one of the organizers. Yeah.

[00:39:22] Nathan Wrigley: Ha haha. There you go. That's nice. Thank you. A lot of really great people behind it. Yeah, that's cool. And now we've got Manatee comments coming in from the from Mr.

Blue Springs as the highest concentration of manatees anywhere in the world during winter. Are you telling me there's not many there in the summer. That's a bit bad. Isn't it? I mean we got out manatees coming out the Wazu during summer where I live. Moving on. Oh no, Adam, what were you gonna say? Oh,

[00:39:54] Adam Warner: I accessibility.

It was something about accessibility day. Yes. I believe this. I agree with Daniel. I think this is the second year. Feel free to correct us in the comments. We are involved with that I believe. Last year and this year and accessibility the push for accessibility has Really exploded. I think in the last, maybe 2, 3, 4, 5 years in WordPress.

And I think it's it's just, it's really good to see that, that momentum is picking up steam and not slowing down. I just think it's really great.

[00:40:34] Nathan Wrigley: Yep. I think the words picking up steam are the apropo here. It really does feel like everybody is now talking about it in the same way that like 18 months ago, everybody was talking about core web vitals.

It's just got that head of steam to it, which is fabulous. And peach says that she is gonna speak or at least she's gonna to apply to speak, which is nice. BA okay. Peachy you're right. Okay. So on the theme of large aquatic mammals, which clearly is what this is now turning into we do have seals.

There's a seal colony of about 200 seals, about three miles from where I live. And it's fabulous. And, but you have to climb down a cliff which is fine. It's not like a, it's not like you need mountain earing gear, you just need sturdy shoes and a bit of an appetite not to fall over. And it's very cool.

You can have your manatees I'll happily I'll stay with my seals is Florida versus the UK. I'm outnumbered. not gonna win. Let's get back to WordPress. Key doki, actually let's talk about this one, this is really interesting Yost as in the person Yotta V who is behind, the founder of yo the SEO plugin every six months or so.

I believe he does his CMS market share where he gathers up as much data as he can get his hands on. And he tries to make sense of how the CMS ecosystem is doing and each time for ages, the WordPress numbers, just pop. It was a, it was more. A logarithmic curve up. It went parabolic, I should say.

And the, until recently about the last time he did this, he was fearful that perhaps WordPress was in a the first state of decline ever because the numbers had gone down modestly, albeit this data has now been combined wherever he was getting his data from before.

He's

[00:42:33] Nathan Wrigley: now combined it with built it, built with data and he makes the point right at the top that he's not sure what to make up that data.

So he's not making any kind of predictions from this. He's a little bit puzzled by how it all comes out. But the bottom line is everybody take a breath because the WordPress data, rather than declining, it just seems to have plateaued. We've gone back to that 43 point something percent. And so here is the graph or rather chart.

So let me just read through the numbers. WordPress 43. Exactly 43% is what it's coming out. I think the highest it ever got was 43.6, something like that. Shopify number two. And just listen to the difference in these two numbers, 43 for WordPress Shopify, 4.2 I mean it WICS at 2.3 Squarespace 2.0, Jummah 1.6 and it goes on from there.

The platform that I used to use a dearly loved Droople 1.2 and it goes down from there and there's a lovely graph here, which kind of just gives it no, that isn't the one. I can't actually. Oh, is it that one? Yeah, here we go. This chart is really shows it off perfectly. So what you're seeing here is a chart, apologies to the listeners.

You'll just have to go. I'm afraid. The the top line is the blue line. This is the mic share for WordPress. And you can see broadly speaking since July 20, 21, it's a flat line. It goes up and it goes down the tiniest little bit, but there's no major change in direction. This other line, this gray line, which is there's a big rival.

No, that's. That's non that's websites, which aren't using a CMS and it's less than WordPress, which is phenomenal. So these lines at the bottom, these tiny lines, all push together right near the bottom of the chart. They're all the others. So the red line at the top is Shopify then thrown all together.

And in, in many ways you can't even tell the difference between them wick Squarespace jumbler Droople. Bottom line is the chicken little story. From six months ago, we've packed him off. We've put him back in a box and sent him up, back off to the poultry. Farm chicken little is no longer part of the equation.

It seems like it's just plateauing out. However, if you are a Wu commerce person, there is not only. Room to be Sangin there's room to become happy because this is the WooCommerce chart. Green is Shopify. And now you can detect on the Shopify line, a slight decline over the last three or four months.

January, so six months or so it's gone from four, 4.4% to 4.2. And it's, it is perceivable on that graph, given that the axes are different, but look at the WooCommerce graph, it's going up and up. It's gained 1.5% of the market share since this time last year, which is just an amazing statistic.

Now, and to that is because Shopify is going down. This is an article on the verge. Shopify is actually laying off a thousand employees, which, obviously we're sitting on the WordPress side of things, but there's nobody here. Being smug about this in any which whichever way you look at this, it's a tragedy when people get laid off.

But it is interesting as an article, as a news piece, only 10% of its workforce are being made redundant to be fair Shopify, given them a nice deal. They get three months salary plus a week, depending on how many years they've done. Plus they get some sort of support for finding a new job and the ability to buy a laptop, which they've got to replace.

But mostly that workforce is being reduced in recruiting support and sales. I talked for ages there. I really didn't intend to apologies everybody, but free for all off you go.

[00:46:32] Jess Frick: Can I just throw some more? Love it, Adam. his first response. Yes, please. Was to his first response, listen to, he's such a mench.

His first response is to throw out the recruiting link and telling everybody how amazing GoDaddy is and that they're hiring. And he's got your back, like who,

[00:46:49] Nathan Wrigley: who does this? Yeah, that's nice

[00:46:52] Adam Warner: by the way. Oh, go ahead, Nathan. No, please. I was just gonna say I thank you so much, Jess.

I appreciate that. And I always appreciate your kind words. Whenever I see those kinds of announcements probably like all of us are Twitter feeds inevitably are filled with those things. I was just laid off and now I'm gonna do this thing or I'm just, I was just laid off and I'm looking for work and I really try to put myself in that situation and And do things that I hope others would do for me.

Just resources. I'm a husband and a father. And when I think about something like that, that would happen, what is my plan B? If we can help connect people that's a lot of, I think what we all do is we are the great connectors I don't know about. Great. But we're connectors of I think we're all pretty great, of people and opportunities.

So hopefully that pans out for all of those 1000 people in one way or another

[00:48:10] Nathan Wrigley: Nice catch though. Jess. Nice bit of mutual back. Rubbing there. I enjoy it when we are nice to each other. That's lovely. Daniel's thrown a screenshot, but Daniel, I confess on my screen.

It's come out as ever so small. So can I just share this Daniel? And you can explain why it is that you sent this in my direction. I'll try to zoom in. This is another chart. I don't think I can zoom in cuz I'm not logged into Twitter and it doesn't allow me to interact. Oh I can. Gotcha. What are we looking at?

[00:48:38] Adam Warner: There you go.

[00:48:38] Daniel Schutzsmith: So it's a, it's an old screenshot I found on my computer. I was going, you know how you go through old files and everything. That's from 2013 showing 2000 twelves numbers. Good. Look at BBE WordPress.

[00:48:52] Adam Warner: Look

[00:48:52] Daniel Schutzsmith: at that. So none was no CMS was the biggest market share.

[00:48:56] Nathan Wrigley: Oh yeah. It was basically 70%.

And now

I realized

[00:49:03] Daniel Schutzsmith: too, like in the back of my head for years, I've always thought, oh it's like WordPress, Jula Droople. And so when people talk about Shopify, being higher, the wicks and all that, I've always had trouble comprehending it. And that's because I think in the back of my head, I keep thinking of this screenshot I took

[00:49:20] Nathan Wrigley: Exactly. Yeah. So this is a walk down memory lane. I'm loving this. So here we go. Here's the CMS, here's the CMS chart from 2012. It sounds like I should be on the radio. Right? Number one is WordPress with 16.9% in it. Number two, jur 2.9%. Dr. A drop at 2.1% blogger 0.9%. V I get that V Ty.

Oh three there's much more. Some I've never heard of data. Life engine. No. GOs it with a Z I'm not in short Beatrix press the shop. pH B I one was on the

[00:49:58] Adam Warner: latest one. Ah, okay. Didn't see. That's and I'm not familiar with Beatrix, but there are a lot of blast from the past there. Press

[00:50:08] Daniel Schutzsmith: the shop. Isn't that?

What be? What became

[00:50:12] Adam Warner: chairman? That WASO shop.

[00:50:15] Jess Frick: Oh, gotcha. Yeah, press a standalone. They just got some major security

[00:50:19] Nathan Wrigley: issues. Oh, true. PHP. B OS commerce expression engine. I remember expression engine. That was one that tried to charge. Wasn't it? They charged for the like 79 bucks for their one, one install, license, moveable type.

[00:50:34] Adam Warner: Oh, plague. plague. I used plague and I also used, I'm sure many of us used many of these. I had a. My first e-commerce site was on osCommerce. It was a pet supply store called D dogma.

[00:50:53] Nathan Wrigley: Look at this, right? The bottom look sorry. Square spaces on the chart. Oh, I didn't even notice that. Look at that.

It's on the chart. No 0.1%. And then apparently they went out of business for six months or something where there were no installs at all. And then it came back in again at nor put one. They just dipped weeble on there. No wicks concrete, five jumped right in there. Concrete five concrete. I did try concrete five one.

So remember likes one with a hand logo. Wasn't it. And you could edit on the page. A little thing would come up and you could edit right in sit you, which I thought was cool. That's the coolest thing that I've seen in a long time. You should send this to Yost and sh make sure that he includes it in his next in his next piece.

That's very cool. Okay. So the market share. Sky not falling in. Everything's fine. Do not worry, basically. Okay. Cameron Jones, it's your turn mate. You've been coming here for months and I found this week with your name on it. So I thought we'd give you a mention. This is a specy boy article.

It's Eric Cark and he he's been putting together an article. He's obviously polled a bunch of developers and asking that well, product founders is actually what the title is, and he's asking them WordPress product founders. He's asking them what they do differently. And he's spoken to Cameron Jones.

Who's in the comments, Derek Asher. I'm gonna say Kathy darling, Jack Arturo, Gareth Harris, Mark West guard. Who's often in the comments, but I haven't seen today. And he's asking them what they do differently. And I thought it'd be nice. Give give Cameron the opportunity. He was saying the biggest change in the ecosystem without a doubt has been the introduction of the block editor.

And if he was starting out today, he would have a block first mentality. He's more of a PHP developer, but he tends to build classic widgets and S before building blocks, if he was starting now, he'd build a block only and consider it adding a short code editor for the, for a classic widget as they became sufficient as they became sufficient demand for it.

Cameron, if you've read this article and I dunno if you have or not, it's quite interesting cuz you, you are only one of two. Two people that said that everybody basically said I would spend more time on marketing. That really was the sort of that was the theme that came out of it.

So I'm gonna launch this piece to the others as that, if you were a product founder, what would your advice be? And would it be, do marketing? And I know Adam in particular, you've had a run at all this haven't you and your thoughts, marketing an important piece?

[00:53:25] Adam Warner: I think marketing is everything. When I started Fu plugins, I co-founded it with Brad who, Brad, Vincent, who now still runs food plugins with his partners.

How can I say this? But it's, if no one knows about your product yeah. Except for your inner circle of connections you are not going to be successful. It and I was by no means and still am by no means a marketing expert, although I've learned a ton of of information about marketing in the last several years since co-founding food plugins.

But I wish I knew then what I know now we, I have a lot to say and I'm losing my word. So I'll defer to Daniel and Jessica, but yes, marketing your product, especially as. A, maybe a solo per or a solo founder or if you're just all developer of focused people. I think marketing is is something that is missed.

I, I talked to Carl I'm blanking on his name now, Carl, everybody knows Carl at word camp Europe, and he is a hardcore developer, the Yammer platform and he said the same thing. And I often thought in the past that there's a niche there, there's a business niche, and I've seen a couple of people do it where you could employ employee of marketing program or suite of tools that could be marketed to developers to help them or a platform that helps them Mar Carl Alexander.

Thank you, Cameron. And I still think there's a lot of room for that. So marketing. I agree with is the most important thing.

[00:55:32] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Daniel. Oh, Jess.

[00:55:37] Daniel Schutzsmith: Yeah. Marketing developer relations also seems like a big thing that we don't really talk about in the WordPress space. I know that magic over at WPLS has talked about this a bit about the importance of developer relations and how there's just kinda a lack of that in a lot of places.

Perusing the different plugins that I saw in here, the products they were talking about, I could see they weren't as developer focused, but it would be cool though, to have some type of developer relations thing in a, at a lot of the larger product places, for sure.

[00:56:18] Adam Warner: Anything.

[00:56:20] Jess Frick: I can only relate to my external founder experiences. I've started a couple of companies. And what Beth is saying in the comments is dead on it is so hard to find time to work on your business when you're in your business and marketing, for whatever reason is one of those things that we forget to do when we're focused on the product itself.

And which comes first, the, in enhancing the product or making sure people are using it it's always a, give and take. But I tend to agree that marketing is. Marketing is the one investment that you have to make.

[00:57:00] Nathan Wrigley: gonna

[00:57:01] Adam Warner: listen. I can give you a, another example of why marketing matters.

When we were running food plugins we of course were marketing in a lot of places, a lot of times in the WordPress circles, which we needed to expand on and get to the average user. But one of the things we did a huge misstep that I pushed for was creating a product to scratch my own itch, to solve my own problem and had our team together with myself, working on it for a good part of six months.

We launched it. And no one wanted it. No one cared. It didn't solve anybody else's problems except for my own. And maybe a few other people. So if we would have employed the the correct marketing levers, we would've known a lot more about our users and about our potential users and what they actually needed and wanted.

So I would say that's a really important piece as a product founder and why marketing matters is because you learned so much more about your end user or your intended end user.

[00:58:13] Nathan Wrigley: It's quite interesting. And I'm gonna preface this before I say it. That there's very few areas where I think I've actually got a lot.

Common sense to say, but I think on this one, I have a diff a slightly unique insight. And that is to say that just because of the podcasts that have built up over the years, I do get contacted by an awful lot of people who have a thing, and it's a new thing, and they want the thing to be they want the thing to become a big thing.

And and it never ceases to amaze me. How much of a disconnect there is between their desire. And their execution. So I get emails that are barely readable product pitches that assume that if they give me a free license forever and ever I'm in that's the deal, Don, they'll be able to air it and all of that.

And I do think there is a real difference between let's say an individual coder who's really got that as their unique talent. They are brilliant at that. Being able to do that and market. Is an extraordinary human being in the same way that it's very rare to meet somebody who is an exceptional coder and an exceptional designer.

You might be brilliant at one fairly good at two, but it's really unusual to meet somebody who's brilliant at both. And I think there's a career. I think there's a proper career path for somebody who can step in and fill that void. It isn't me because I don't have the experience to do the marketing, but I think somebody and somebody that Springs to my mind is Jonathan.

Who has that the capacity to link people. Who've got a thing, but don't know how to market the thing and to bring it to market. And in his case, I believe it's more partnerships. He likes to link people over here. Who've already got a system and an email list and a product. And, but it marries up our products a bit like your product will match each other up.

I think there's a real career to be had in that, in the same way that we've got SEO experts. And we've now got, performance experts and we're getting accessibility experts more and more. I think the people who can do the marketing on the WordPress side, I think there's a full on career in that for somebody who can figure that puzzle out,

[01:00:31] Jess Frick: we need a WordPress shark.

Right.

[01:00:36] Nathan Wrigley: does it come with manatees? That's all I'm asking.

[01:00:39] Adam Warner: Manatee tank. We'll call it the Manatee tank. That's man. That's it. Hang

[01:00:44] Nathan Wrigley: on. That's the episode title right there. I'm gonna write that down. Manity tag, right?

[01:00:50] Adam Warner: Marketing consultants and marketing agencies and all of that. It's nothing new, right?

In the wider ecosystem, but in the WordPress space, I agree, Nathan, I think there's a real opportunity here and to provide a, somewhat of a packaged a packaged marketing plan or planned or education for product developers in our space. Obviously everything is going to be customized.

Everything needs to be customized for the individual product or the approach. But there is a lot of education. And I think there's a lot of opportunity. Someone who is whose skill is development and not marketing, there's a lot to be learned. And I think I think there's a real opportunity there.

So whoever's going to move on that feel free to shoot me a DM and I'll try to help all I can.

Yeah. Okay.

[01:01:52] Nathan Wrigley: We've heard it. This is it. This is the beginning of a new career path for somebody. Do you know, what's curious as well as the FHO side of this, the fact that if you go to a word camp I really get the impression that word camps are not the place to go out and do hardball pitching.

They're the sort of place to build up relationships. Whereas if you go to, I don't know if you go to a Cisco event or something like that, that's all on the table. Like you are gonna be pounded with business cards and people are gonna come at you and really try to, I just think our community's slightly different.

So it does need a slightly more subtle nuanced approach. Yeah. Anyway, there we go. Wow.

[01:02:31] Daniel Schutzsmith: Just to point out too, that Alex Denning, formally of master WP that's has his

[01:02:37] Nathan Wrigley: own company called ellipsis get ellipsis. Yep. Yep. Yep. They,

[01:02:41] Daniel Schutzsmith: Elli, they specifically focus on being marketing for. WordPress and cameras.

[01:02:49] Adam Warner: Alex

[01:02:49] Nathan Wrigley: is a great guy. Yeah. Okay, great. Oh, that was a nice unexpected conversation. I love it when that happens. Okay. Screens back on I dunno if we got time for this one. This is the one about WordPress renaming, full sight editing something else I'll skip in. Oh, I think we should. Oh,

[01:03:06] Adam Warner: you want,

[01:03:07] Nathan Wrigley: okay.

Alright. Okay. This is the WP drama piece for this. I need like jingle, like a, the w

[01:03:14] Adam Warner: need a little audio

[01:03:17] Nathan Wrigley: that goes. Okay. So there's some nice comments on this. Some of them quite sarcastic and interesting. Should we say this is Sarah Gooding WP tab. It's a piece called WordPress contributors.

Consider WordPress start again. WordPress contributors, consider renaming full site editing. This has been prompted by the fact that Jafer Hayden Choi. Who's the executive director of the WordPress project is thinking that the term full site editing and full site editor possibly are a little bit.

And as it's described in this article, I don't really know how it correlates to what she actually said, but are not user friendly. We need something more user friendly. Now the article goes on to develop what that means and all of that. Some people stepping in like NGO, who's a WP engine developer saying, look, the ship sailed.

Let's just carry on calling it that. Do we need to change it at this point? Other people saying, yeah, like we've had full site editing forever. You just didn't know how to do it with a page builder potentially, or you did. Sorry. You didn't know how to do it without a page builder. You didn't learn the templating system that WordPress has got.

And so on. Anyway, the comments saw how to describe it. Comments basically in, in some cases saying, oh goodness, is this too where we're spending so much time thinking about the name of a thing that that concentrate on the actual rewriting of the code and getting it to work.

So it's getting funnier and funnier says, Tom, when the product is the problem, some people get the bright idea that all they need to do is rename it. Paul, they see. We know Paul, he says, this is a satirical piece, isn't it? I guess it doesn't matter too much. FSC is a, is an alpha product. It's not even visible to new users of WordPress, isn't it?

And he said, but I thought SFE invented editing of website footers. And prior to FSC, every WordPress website in the world had the same uneditable footer. Is that not the case? And so you can see where this went. So out of it, it's totally over to you. I am not stepping in this one.

[01:05:23] Adam Warner: I, I don't think there's any need for any, drama surrounding this one.

I think my opinion is when I commented on that on that post by Josepha and my comment was related to why don't we ask the users. So any decision that is made about a product, and we just touched on this with marketing why is the quote unquote inner circle? Those that are involved in the wordpress.org project overall the software, the project, the contributions.

Why are we. Not asking the end users, WordPress is much bigger than the 43 per the a hundred percent of this call and the a hundred percent of this li of your listeners. WordPress is there's so many different kinds of users out there, and the fact that we've become accustomed and I'm not I'm not disagreeing with anybody's comments.

The fact that we've been we've come, we've become accustomed to the terms full sight editing and F E FSC. And then thinking back to, in years past in WordPress theme templates as more of a kind of ubiquitous website, that those terms to me are much more common to the layperson.

Then they have been for, again this WordPress inner circle of users. My question is, why don't we just ask why don't why can't there be a survey of users? It wouldn't be perfect of course, because not all users are in their dashboards and looking for surveys. But I'd love to see that data and see what that says instead of a group of 20 or a hundred people arguing.

What the best term is when the decision isn't based on data it's based on a hunch that it's not clear, but do we know that? Yeah,

[01:07:30] Nathan Wrigley: I'm I've got this, the article that Joseph wrote on the screen at the moment, it was linked in the WP Tavern article, which I'll put in the show notes and man alive.

I have seen that many comments on a word on a make.wordpress.org post in a wild. Yeah, that is a bit of people making comments. So there's obviously a lot of feeling about this. I didn't obviously read many of them just seen it for the first time. To

[01:07:54] Daniel Schutzsmith: also too, it's bringing up all the feelings that people had when FSC began because part of it was, I remember we had this conversation already, I don't know where it was.

Maybe it was across different like slacks and forums or whatever, but when they introduced calling it full site editing in the first place, folks were like really it's page builder. Like it's building pages and everyone just, didn't wanna focus on the word page. And for some reason that like the word builder, but the reality is I'd like to see the SCM rush comparison of like full site editing compared to page builder and see which one's actually gonna get more keywords.

And I'm guessing it's gonna be page builder because of the frequency that it's used across the web. That's part of my thing is that you're rehashing something that the whole community already well, and that's discussed and felt

[01:08:50] Adam Warner: bad about. Yeah. That's a large consideration, Daniel that you just mentioned, like how are more users going to find WordPress?

Are they going to be looking for website full site editor building or are they going to be searching website, editing, build website, yeah. Template.

[01:09:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's an interesting point. The SEO part, here's an interesting data point. And again, I have an insight which is weird.

Never normally have insight. So just have nonsense really. So the page builder summit that we ran by the time we got to the second version of the page builder summit, it was really obvious that the people who were using Guttenberg believed that there was no content. For them. So we had a large crowd of people who came to us and said only after the event had finished, oh, I didn't realize it had anything to do with blocks and Gutenberg.

And because it was called the page builder summit, they assumed that wasn't so in the next iteration from 2.0 onwards, every iteration after that we went out and, we put images of the Guttenberg editor. We wrote Guttenberg as well, completely separately as its own word. So it said page builders.

And Guttenberg because there is a real divide between people who are, who think it's not a page builder, which of course, I think more and more. It is. So

[01:10:10] Adam Warner: have you considered changing the name of your event to the full site editing summit?

[01:10:17] Nathan Wrigley: No I think we need to poll the WordPress community first before

There you go. That's no, but curious right. That people would've, I just assumed that people would make the assumption that Guttenberg would be thrown in, but they didn't that yeah. I'm gonna go for the most. Probably because

[01:10:34] Adam Warner: of that previous conversation that Daniel mentioned when he first came out in the, oh,

[01:10:40] Nathan Wrigley: it was an illustration to me anyway, had to quickly.

So from now on, it's gonna be called the element or divvy breezy, oxygen break, dance Gutenberg. , and then we'll cover up. I've missed one. I'm sure. . There we go. Okay. Anyway, that's it that's that one. Unless Jess's got something she wants to throw in the hat.

[01:11:02] Jess Frick: I just think that we're gonna still call it full site editing because we still call it

[01:11:07] Nathan Wrigley: Gutenberg.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. I call it at all the time to the it's the

[01:11:14] Jess Frick: WordPress block

[01:11:14] Nathan Wrigley: editor. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The plugin is Gutenberg and I always call it Gutenberg, cuz it feels like that's where most people land. They get it. Okay. I can't believe I didn't do this earlier. I wasn't segueing particularly well this week.

There's another possible episode title, no segue. This is another WordPress event. This is announcing word camp, us speakers round 1, 2, 3, 4, and five. I'm showing one, but as you can see in the sidebar, there's been a load of announcements. This is basically say if you were lucky enough to get yourself a word camp us ticket, you can now see who's gonna be presented to you as the speakers and also the topics.

If you weren't lucky enough. Excuse me. And maybe one of you three has more insight into this than I I think they're gonna live stream it. That's my that I had, I have that in my head somewhere. So even if you didn't get a ticket, you can actually watch all of the content at the second. It happens anyway.

Yeah. Yep. Is that right? Daniel? I remembered that correctly. Yeah. I'll all sessions will be live streamed. Yep. There you go. So first round we've got actually, do you know what? I won't go through all the list of names if that's all right with you, but if you are going or you're curious, or you now know that you can watch it all live.

Then word us dot word, camp.org, follow the links. And you'll be able to yeah. Figure it out by the way this week I took, how cool is that button?

[01:12:47] Daniel Schutzsmith: I love it.

[01:12:47] Adam Warner: Ooh, I

[01:12:47] Nathan Wrigley: like that. Isn't that nice. Don't I think I was actually, I actually stopped and wrote a tweet about that button. so that's how sad I am.

I just thought it was beautiful. I just really liked it. Somebody said, is that accessible? I don't know if it's accessible. I didn't go into,

[01:13:04] Adam Warner: I think that right there, either the white or the black or the hover version would make a really cool graphic on a t-shirt

[01:13:13] Nathan Wrigley: there your post comment.

Yeah. Right across. But I just thought it was really nice. Jump on that. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, that was my sad fact of the week that I obsessed enough about buttons to tweet about them. All right. So there you go. Straw poll. Which one of you guys gals go in word camp. Us. Yep. Yep. All of us. Oh yeah.

All the Florida crowd get to go. Oh, represent seeing us going on. Yeah, I see. What's going on. Distribute those 650 tickets throughout the panhandle and darn it. Honestly, I went out and did something in the backyard for an hour. Came back all gone. However, I'm gonna see if there's a way I'm sure where there's a will.

There's a way okay. Moving on

[01:14:05] Jess Frick: and as was called out and the chat David Bassat is, has created a list for people that want tickets, but didn't get one. And so there can be an exchange instead of putting 'em back into the public pool, which again is another great way to do it.

But.

[01:14:21] Nathan Wrigley: He has, and that was a very cool site. Basically. You go and you add yourself to a form which then puts you in a Google doc and a Google spreadsheet, basically, if you want a ticket, but you didn't get one. And when I looked, there were three people who'd added themselves. So go and put yourself near the top of that list.

If you do want to go. Yeah. That's cool. Beth's going look at this. Michelle's going. Yeah, Bob. So this is BI tactic. Basically get Bob on to basically Bob on to figure it out. he's gonna, he's gonna try and work it out for me. He claims he can get me there. We will see. We'll see. That'd be fun. But thank you, Bob.

I that's hope yeah, that'd be nice. Okay. Another shout out Mark West guard was one of the six in the Cameron Jones article that we mentioned earlier. The specy boy article. I just wanna give a hat tip. He was a, he was somebody that I spent quite a lot of time with at word camp us. He's a very. Very nice guy.

He's got a plugin called Ws form, which if you've not used it, it's a worthy rival of the other plugin forms that you've seen before. And when I say worthy, I am not being, I'm not pulling any punches. It can do a lot. And he was very proud. He tweeted he this week to said, I got on word press com and they've written a, they've basically written an article about what word?

Word? Yeah. Sorry, what Ws form can do. And really, this is me just saying, congratulations, obviously that was an aspiration. Yeah. Huge. Congrats. Yeah,

[01:15:48] Adam Warner: he was congrats to mark. I talked to him at length in, at work camp Europe in the hotel lobby. We spent at probably over an hour talking about how, what his background is, how he started in business and how Ws forum came about.

And. It's if you ever get a chance to talk to mark I highly recommend it. He's just a really open and transparent guy. Super nice. And is not afraid to share the lessons learned much like my time with plugin business

[01:16:22] Nathan Wrigley: ownership, there was, we went out for a meal. There was mark. Then there was me, then there was Bob Don there and oh, you can imagine how like middle-aged and crotchety that got quickly.

that was, it was very entertaining. Was that the

[01:16:40] Adam Warner: beginning of the the shit show? Yes, that was it.

[01:16:45] Nathan Wrigley: That was exactly what happened. I blame it all on Bob that's when it all started. Yeah. Anyway, hat it to mark. Seriously, if you haven't seen Ws form, go and check out, especially if you like to wrangle the.

If you like to present complicated data, it is really good at doing all that kind of stuff. Okay. Okay. Okay. With 10 minutes left, we've gotta go. Like the wind. Very quickly I came across this tool this week. It's called till engine. It's a browser extension. I believe it's for Chrome and chromium.

Right in, if you're in the Mozilla camp, I think you're out a lot, but just quickly, it does some cool stuff. Like it'll generate Laura ipsum text as a J passer, a URL passer. This is cool. You can go to any image on the website and just basically highlight it. You can see it and it'll take the text out of it, which I've used about 20 times this week.

And it's really cool. An RSA key generator URL N code and decode base 64 image N code and decode could be useful saving yourself a few bites here or there you can throw in SVGs and see what they look like. I can obviously play with them and you've got DL preview. So you write HTML one. So it's 20 bucks might save you.

Some might save you a bit of time here, there, and everywhere. And the roadmap is brilliant. There's a load of cool things on there. If you've got 20 bucks burning a hole in your pocket, it's called U till engine.com. I've got no skin in the game, but I bought it. And I like it. So I'm mentioning it.

Okay. Facebook's dead. There's no more Facebook I think we can all agree that Facebook is in permanent decline because let me read out the numbers. So this is what you call in titles. Meta reports first ever decline in ad revenue. I guess that's true. There is no, there's no lying in that, but they went, check it out.

Meta brought in 2 28 0.8, 2 billion from ads, but they were expected to get 28.94. I, the half violence are coming out

[01:18:53] Adam Warner: downward spiral. I'm

[01:18:55] Nathan Wrigley: telling you. I know, I think though it. That's my thought. I actually think we are beginning to, okay. First start. Don't come after me. Zuckerberg. I don't want your lawyers because I can't afford to bat your lawyers away.

I think maybe this is the beginning of an interesting decline in Facebook the sort of negative press around Facebook and all of the things that Facebook do seems to be gathering a certain momentum. You've got apple shutting down a lot of the opportunities for them to target ads at you and so on and so forth.

And so I just wonder I use it every day, but I'm trying to minimize the use of it, but there you go. I just thought I throw that one in. If anybody wants to comment

can

[01:19:37] Adam Warner: I just say something here, 28.82. I know billion, billion. From advertisements

[01:19:46] Nathan Wrigley: and that's this quarter, honestly, it's not even worth it.

Is it for mark? It's just it's not, it is just crazy. No, I just step away now, mark. You've done it. You've succeeded. You're you've completely done it. Just get out of the fight at this point, I think, but yeah. 28.8, 2 billion. Where to do, come on. Sorry, go ahead, Nathan. No, I was just gonna say it is the default, I think still for advertising.

I still think of all the platforms out there. If you wanna hit somebody on the nose with an ad and really know that they're gonna respond to it I don't think there's anything to beat Facebook, but I hate that. That's true.

[01:20:26] Jess Frick: That used to be a lot more true when we could get ultra creepy and know exactly what your interests were and where you worked and lookalike pages and they've taken a lot of that away from us.

So yeah, I guess we're gonna just protect your data.

[01:20:45] Adam Warner: Geez. Yeah. 12. Where is Facebook? Is Facebook going to survive or met us? Excuse me. Is it going to harken in the new digital age? The digital revolution of virtual experiences? I'm not sure.

[01:21:05] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. You go first, Daniel, and then I will rent.

[01:21:09] Daniel Schutzsmith: Yeah, I was gonna say they're pushing hard for metaverse in teaching spaces for education and getting people to understand different paths of it. You'll see the commercials all over now that are flooded across the us. So I know they have an active, push on that, but I don't know about anything else.

Like we have an Oculus that just collects dust

[01:21:33] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. So my thoughts are like, if you, okay, I'll first of all, outline my position, which is very clearly thought out, I'm not making any of this up as I go along. My position is that I just can't see swaths of the world sticking things on their faces in order to spend the amount of time that meta assume we're going to spend because I just can't see that being a reality.

It's too weird but

[01:22:06] Adam Warner: what if we get to the point where. Inserted under the surface of your skin.

[01:22:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And then I think

[01:22:15] Adam Warner: it's time to, so there is no putting it. Everything is augmented.

[01:22:19] Nathan Wrigley: I'm going to swim with the humanities for the rest of my life.

[01:22:22] Adam Warner: At that point, just to touch on that for a moment, I have an artificial eye.

Some people know that some people don't and I've I've often volunteered myself to different places around the world to be a Guinea pig. So as soon as the tech is there and it is there, some people have already been doing it. Go ahead. Use my artificial eye as the device to connect me and augment my, my, my reality.

I wanna I would love to push the boundaries oh. Of that. Connect it to my brain. And let's go.

[01:23:01] Nathan Wrigley: That is a fascinating insight as well, because, that's just totally different from where I would have come from. So anyway, that was. That was my sort of knee jerk reaction. But then if you've REW me 15 years ago and say, people will hold rectangles of metal.

And they will be incapable of putting them down. I would've said that's rubbish. How is that gonna happen? And now look at it, it's totally happened. And it was platforms like Facebook, which were really a part of that process. So I think really it's me wanting to believe it can't happen because it's a bit ready player one, it's a bit dystopian, if they're getting in the education space, very clever, I guess you can incorporate.

Yeah, it's very generational

[01:23:50] Adam Warner: children. It's very generational too. I was just at the local grocery store here over the weekend and there was a woman at the courtesy desk and she was probably in her eighties. And she was talking to the worker and she had mentioned something about, I saw that on Facebook and I thought okay, that tracks, I think our our age group were We were early adopters of that. We told our parents and our older generation, you have to get on this because it's an easy way for us to stay connected. But what about the younger generation? I think that probably that's the shift to meta and metaverse and trying to capture.

And then Daniel, you mentioned the education focus and Nathan, it makes sense, right? Yeah. But when the hearts and minds early.

[01:24:44] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. I'm gonna, like I say, I'm going to spend my time with the manatees. Sean says, look at the tremendous success of Google glass. Yeah. yeah. I think people had objections to the forward facing camera on Google glass.

They didn't, it was like, get away from me. Don't wanna be on the internet. Remember Robert, Scoble going into a like a male bathroom in what's in conferences and everybody else was like, get out. just get out. That's too weird. You got these cameras on your face. and we're all, using the facilities.

Okay. I don't know what's gonna happen. I hope that the augmented reality is left as a sort of hobby past time thing. And doesn't become, the new normal, but gotta say don't go to the shops anymore. Just shopping on the phone these days, it's radically shifted all of that yeah.

Whew. All right. We'll tell, yeah. Tone will tell right. Two minutes left. So we'll go for this one very quickly. That is how squids transport their eggs, right? That's all you need to know in a big flappy ghostlike thing underneath it. I'll link in the show notes. You can go and check it out yourself, but this, oh, this is, Jess's not WordPress, but fun pick of the week.

Yeah. Monarch butterflies

[01:26:09] Jess Frick: monarchs are down 90% and so are milking plants. So the reason I wanted to bring this up is because we can all help get monarchs back and you can go to save our monarchs.org and order your milkweed seeds or go to your local pharmacy and grab one. That's already grown and throw it in your lawn, cuz they need that.

[01:26:28] Nathan Wrigley: What that plant is the solution, right? That little thing in the picture that we can see, they thrive on that vegetation. There milkweed

[01:26:35] Jess Frick: specifically are very important to Monarch butterflies. And so that is the easiest, most readily available plant that we can put in our yards to help them.

[01:26:48] Nathan Wrigley: Look, we've got pat who, I don't know, pat shelter.

Hello, pat. Sorry if I've butchered your first name, but I planted so many Wil milkweeds around our pond. Bravo. Yeah. Of the Mons important.

[01:27:01] Jess Frick: They're the only source of food. We gotta help him, man.

[01:27:06] Nathan Wrigley: Best with a sort of slightly contrary position. They call it a weed for a reason. I'm guessing milkweed does spread around the garden somewhat.

So yeah, maybe caveat EOR with the milkweed plant. All right. That's it. That's all we've got time for. That was a fun show. I enjoyed that loads of comments coming in. I really appreciate all that. There was lots of engagement. That was dead cool. Unfortunately, you three, I'm gonna humiliate you tremendously now with the wavy hand gesture thing that we have to do.

So it's a question of raising up both the hands, giving us a wave, giving us a that's cool. And we'll use that as the album art. We won't be back next week, cuz I'm going on holiday. I'm going on my annual little holiday with me. I know congrat. Yeah, we're off to Florida and we're gonna swim with manatees.

We've got it all sorted out. There you go. No, we're not. We're going to Wales, which is really a nice part of the UK and we're gonna go swim in the sea and enjoy things like that. So we won't be back next week. We'll be back the week after that. Adam Warner, Daniel Short Smith, Jessica Frick. Thank you so much for joining us today and thanks for those of you that made a comment.

I really appreciate it. Take it easy.