“It’s elephants all the way down”
This week’s WordPress news – Covering The Week Commencing 30th November 2020
With Nathan Wrigley, Paul Lacey (Dickiebirds Studio), Jan Koch (@iamjankoch) and Bernhard Gronau (@quasel).
You can find the Newsletter here which has all the links mentioned in this episode:
We focus on the following stories:
What’s new in Gutenberg?
“Gutenberg 9.5 has been released. The big focuses throughout this release cycle were Full Site Editing and Global styles. This release also includes many fixes and some nice new features and enhancements.”
WordPress 5.6 Release Candidate 2
“The second release candidate for WordPress 5.6 is here! WordPress 5.6 is slated for release on December 8, 2020, and we need your help to get there—if you haven’t tried 5.6 yet, now is the time!”
Gutenberg 9.5 Improves Site Editor and Adds New Options for Cover and Code Blocks
“Gutenberg 9.5 went live today. The development team is continuing forward with work that we will start seeing down the road in WordPress 5.7 and beyond. The big user-facing highlights for this release were the additions of a full-height alignment option for the Cover block, font-size support in the Code block, and improved previews for block patterns.”
Block Navigation Plugin Provides Missing Context-Based Outline for the WordPress Editor
“The goal of the plugin is to provide an alternative to the editor’s current navigation. For the most part, it excels. WordPress has set the bar so low that any improvement seems like a godsend.”
What is Full Site Editing and how is it shaping a new WordPress?
“Full site editing is a new feature in WordPress that allows you to use Gutenberg blocks to create all parts of your website. You can visually design your website header, footer, archive pages, and more visually using Gutenberg editor. This is like a theme builder that you may be familiar with working in different page builders.”
Cloudways vs Runcloud: An Honest Review
“Trying to choose between Cloudways vs RunCloud to host your WordPress site? In this post, I’m going to compare them in detail so that you can make the right decision for your needs, knowledge level, and budget.”
Block-Based Bosco, Second Full-Site Editing Theme Lands in the WordPress Directory
“Fränk Klein, a Principal Engineer at Human Made, is now the second theme developer to release a block-based theme to the WordPress theme directory. Block-Based Bosco is a recreation of his Bosco theme, which he released in 2014.”
New Plugin Adds Google-Doc Style Commenting to Gutenberg Blocks
“Multidots, a development agency and WordPress VIP Agency Partner, has released a plugin that brings content collaboration to the block editor. The Google-Doc Style Gutenberg Block Commenting plugin landed on WordPress.org in October and is just starting to gain traction.”
Gutenberg Times Live Q & A: Case Study – The Making of Open-Source Story by Yoast with Block
Omar (Yoast partner and CTO) and Willemien (Yoast blog team lead) will take us behind the scenes of the making of the Open-Source Story, a richly illustrated and interactive post about the nature of open-source from a collaborative business point of view. Omar and Willemien will share how they built it with the WordPress block editor, explain their approaches and answer attendees questions.
Dec 10 at 2:30 pm EST ([19:30] UTC).
Homepage – Underrepresented In Tech
“Are you a member of an underrepresented group, working in tech? Submit your profile… We’ll ask you a series of questions that will help us index you in our database. Once your submission has been approved, you’ll be added.”
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Transcript (if available)
These transcripts are created using software, so apologies if there are errors in them.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:00:00] It's time for this week in WordPress episode, number 141 in titled it's elephants all the way down this week. I'm joined by Paul Lacey and also by young Cochon, Bernard granola. As we talk about the weekly WordPress news. Yeah. what have we got to talk about this week? There's an awful lot about Gutenberg what's new in Gutenberg.
There's also a release candidate. That's released candidate two for WordPress 5.6 Gutenberg's site editor has seen a bit of an update and there's a block navigation plugin, which provides a better experience to move your blocks around what is full site editing. We find out cloud ways and run cloud.
There's a comparison. On the internet this week. And Paul Lacey talks about that. There's a theme specifically for blocks. It's called Bosco. And we discussed that as well. Also. Would you like to have Google docs style commenting in your Gutenberg documents while there's a plugin to make that possible? We also talk about a couple of events.
The first one being the Gutenberg times live Q and a, which is coming up soon and also underrepresented in tech, a website for those who feel underrepresented. It's all coming up next on this weekend, WordPress, this weekend, WordPress is brought to you this week by AB split test. Just set up your AB split tests in record time, like in a couple of minutes, use your existing pages and test anything against anything else, buttons, images, how does Rose anything?
And the best part is it works with element or Beaver builder and the WordPress block editor. Check it out and get a free demo at absplittest.com. Hello. Hello buddy. Thanks for joining us once more. This is I'm going to get it right. It's this week in WordPress. It's no longer the WP. Bill's weekly WordPress news, but thanks for joining us.
I can see there's quite a few people online at the moment. If you want to say hello and. Who you are and where you come from and all of that in the comments, that would be really nice, best way to do that is to go to either WP bills.com forward slash life that enables you to use YouTube. So in other words, Google, if you're logged into Google, you should be good to go.
Otherwise you can go to WP bell. Well, actually facebook.com forward slash WP builds that page. And if you're in our Facebook group, perhaps you can make some comments over there. We're using a platform called stream yard. And enables us to hopefully put those comments up there, but yeah. Nice to, nice to have you guys on the line.
But, um, more importantly, I suppose, is just very brief introductions from the three guests that we've got with us this week. I'm joined this week by Vernon Grano, Paul Lacey, as always and young cock. And just very briefly go around. We're trying to keep this to a minimum now. Um, but an a tell us who you are.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:02:50] Hello. Uh, I'm from Austria working on my own little company at helping out with pups and the people directly, of course. And we'll talk about it today.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:02:59] Yeah. You have to mention your pods and use. Please interrupt me before we finish. That would be very helpful. And Paul Lacey has always it last week. Paul had the shortest possible, um, of elevator pitches.
Let's see if he can exceed the, the brevity of that this week.
Paul Lacey: [00:03:16] Paul from Vicki birds.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:03:18] Okay, great. Next week. We're totally doing
Paul Lacey: [00:03:22] pretty well.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:03:24] Yeah. Thanks Paul. That's marvelous, sticky birds.studio. Uh let's uh, let's mention that. And finally, young caught, how are you doing? Yeah. Hey,
Jan Koch: [00:03:33] I'm doing great. Thanks. I'm Yan from DWP agency summit.com.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:03:38] Thank you so much. Yeah. We're getting good at doing the, the brief introduction. Yeah. Like I said, if you want to just sort of say hello in the comments, um, because we're now repurposing this. Yeah. And making it into a sort of like an audio podcast. It doesn't make a great deal of sense for us to sort of read out every comment as it comes in.
But if it comes up on the screen and, um, you know, if it's a proposal to the conversation that we're having, we'll certainly mentioned that. Yeah. It's just mentioned who we are. We are WP builds. We released quite a little bit. Little bit of WordPress content each and every week you can find us on WP builds.com.
If you want to hear more from us, WP builds.com forward slash subscribe. You can join our Facebook group of over 2,700, and I keep saying it and I believe it. Very polite WordPress users, for reasons unknown to me, we don't seem to have the, uh, the incendiary debate to that. I seem to discover elsewhere online.
I'm very pleased about that. So if you're going to join our group, please make sure you are polite before you type anything in which I'm sure you will, but you can sign up to our newsletters here. Now we shifted our newsletter over to news dot WP builds.com. This is where you can find out all of the, the news that we're going to be talking about.
Um, this is last week's we'll release this week. The one that we're mentioning today that will come out tomorrow at 7:00 AM, UK time, and there's an archive of those. You can see it just here this week in WordPress and video archive. And I think that's it. That's everything I've got to say in that sense.
So we'll crack on, um, Paul, if it's okay with you, uh, Paul is officially the, the sort of co-host of this podcast. I'm going to take the first three and then we'll go over to Paul. So Yan, Bernard, uh, feel free to interrupt at any moment. The first one, uh, if you can see it on the screen, we're [email protected]
We've got what's new in Gutenberg that came out on the 2nd of December Gutenberg to everybody's. Well, either delight or chagrin is getting talked about all the time and little iterations seem to be happening each and every week. And this is no different. There's a couple of things to mention here. We have this full height alignment.
If you were to be looking on the screen, you can see that there's like a toggle button where you can take an image and you can fix it as the background and you simply click a button and it occupies the full height. It's a nice little feature. It's the sort of thing which we've had in page builders, I guess, for the longest time.
But now we've got it in Gutenberg and you can also now have font size support in the code block. Yes, that's quite important. So if you've, if you've used the code block to demonstrate your wonderful code throughout the, throughout the internet, you can now alter its size. So to pretty minor little things, but you know, quite important, I suppose.
I don't suppose anybody's got anything to add to those, if you do go for it, but if not, I'll just crack on with the next piece. Nope. I didn't think so. Okay. In which case we'll stay on WordPress org, a WordPress 5.6 release candidate to, uh, this is just to say that as we get closer to do, you know, I've forgotten the date, it might even be tomorrow.
Is it tomorrow or Wednesday? I can't remember. Yeah, it's the eighth. Great, great. Now I thought it was so you don't really have a lot of time now, so forget this piece. Let's just move on. But anyway, needless to say this, if you're a newb to WordPress, this is how the system works, essentially in the background, a bunch of core contributors and volunteers, and so on.
Um, create the, the release candidates, the sort of like the working version, which isn't available, um, in a regular WordPress install and the idea of pages like this is that they update us to tell us what's going on. What's been improved. And really, I think it's an advertisement to try and encourage you to join on, get onboard and help the team to, uh, to improve it.
So, you know, we're on WordPress 5.6 release candidate to give it a few weeks and we'll be on WordPress 5.7 something or other. But, um, anyway, go and check out those pages on wordpress.org to see what's going on. This is the sort of same thing. This is from Justin Tatlock. Um, if you don't know, we, we talk about WordPress Tavern, quite a lot.
WordPress Tubman is my go-to resource for anything WordPress, largely it's Sarah Gooding. And Justin Todd Locke, who, I don't know if anybody saw whose moved house, um, this week he's got yourself a nice new pad in, I think he's in Alabama, I think. Um, and he, he underscores what I've just mentioned with the full screen covered block and so on.
So if you want a more in-depth explanation, uh, of anything that's happening in the WordPress world, go to WP tavern.com and you can see. I still don't quite get this. I'm pointing to something on the screen. Whereas the, the font sizes are called thus they're called default small, regular, large, larger. And,
Bernhard Gronau: [00:08:22] um,
Jan Koch: [00:08:24] maybe the, the desperate try to help people get fun sizing, right.
Because it's easy to have like 18 pixels, 20 to 25, just mix up on sizes. And maybe this is just a try to keep them in guidance and then check.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:08:41] And it makes sense. I don't know how they did it because maybe it's paced on the, on the, on the, on the, on the default fund.
Paul Lacey: [00:08:47] So it's maybe
Bernhard Gronau: [00:08:48] not even a fixed larger and larger, but it may be in AMS or whatever to have her relate that to have a proper styling, to lead people that way.
I don't know.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:08:59] What you can say on this screenshot is that it, it never ends, it goes larger, larger, still very, very large, even budget than very, very large, super human, you know? And so it goes, no, I just don't quite understand why that, I mean, it says custom I'm presuming if you put custom and you can then.
Jan Koch: [00:09:16] seen that. Does it have a syntax highlighting by the way? I did,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:09:21] uh, on all the, on all the, um, all of the screenshots that I've seen, I've only seen something like that, basically plain text. Um, so I don't know, actually, if anybody knows that would be really lovely too. Cause that would be super useful.
Right? If you could just.
Yeah. Oh, Burnett I think is frozen. Um, no, I thought you got cut off. Are you still there? Sorry, maybe we can make it. He's definitely still there. Cause he's now dancing on the screen, which is quite nice. Um, okay. So that's it really a few minor things happening in Gutenberg, WordPress updating, but do keep your eyes peeled because WordPress in the next 24 hours is going to be updating.
That is one of the. Key moments of any WordPress users life. Isn't it. Are you going to be sitting that goes tomorrow? Just sort of clicking the refresh button. Do you go through your sites one at a time? Do you try one out? Do you wait a fortnight until everything settled down? And how does it work?
Paul Lacey: [00:10:19] I'm so careful with everybody, I would
Bernhard Gronau: [00:10:25] well, that just happens to sub it takes care of it sometimes and sometimes not, but there is backups, so I don't care.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:10:36] straight away. That is very brave, actually.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:10:39] Not every site, but most of them, especially friends and family, I don't care their autopilot, the regular checkup them, or it gets, Oh, Oh, I'll take a look. It depends on the customer. Uh, and, uh, Especially with security updates and stuff like that. They prefer to have them that has stepped up.
Paul Lacey: [00:11:00] I don't know, but that
Jan Koch: [00:11:01] way too, to just have the minor updates applied automatically though, I think.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:11:05] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm more careful with the major updates, but like updates and stuff like that. Most of them are on autopilot because the tools I use. Really the go something wrong. Uh, never had any issues because, uh, it's, it's not that teach
Nathan Wrigley: [00:11:23] large amounts of wood ever so quickly because now that you've said that something catastrophic is going to happen to me, I am, I I've become a bit more.
Um, what's how to describe it. I just won't wait now for like a week. I just watch what other people say. Yeah, unless there's some enormous
Jan Koch: [00:11:45] update, 5.5 and 6.1 that's been updated.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:11:49] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which will probably be in a, you know, in a few days, time, go on Paul, you were saying, it sounded quite cavalier, but I'm guessing you were joking.
Paul Lacey: [00:11:58] It's a good idea in this current time to, um, be a bit more cautious because the WordPress core is migrating away from one version of jQuery to another major version of jQuery. And it's a three-stage process. And I think this update of FivePoint. Six. That is stage two. And then I guess, five, one seven boot stage three.
And I know for sure that stage one broke a lot of websites around the world. So, so there's a good chance that something else will go wrong and, um, you know, let the people that the more cavalier people do it. And then, uh, you know, just, especially at the moment, I'm not, I'm a bit more carefully about plugins because like Bernard said, we tend to use a pretty tight.
Set of plugins and there isn't, you know, I think, I think even when it comes to, you know, I can see it pronounced Randy's BeaverBuilder, uh, top today. And I remember the most controversial order update wasn't even a problem. It was like they added like some kind of notification
drama. I can think of be looking up the history actually broke. You're just like, what's this bell. Yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:13:14] I remember that. I'd forgotten all about that, but I remember, yeah, I'll be sitting there waiting. Dawdling giving it a week just to see
Paul Lacey: [00:13:23] response. Wasn't it? Cause you know, all the elemental people were like, how many up next week?
like, well, we want the bells and whistles. So they gave us the bell
Nathan Wrigley: [00:13:34] they gave you. Oh, that's good. I like that. Yeah. Comedy in the first 10 minutes. Awesome. Yeah, we can tell, um, the very helpfully young, whilst we've been nattering as posted am. I've posted a plugin, which will take care of the code, um, highlighting the syntax,
Jan Koch: [00:13:56] highlighting in the Facebook comments as well.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:13:58] Thank you so much. It's over at get hub it's M Kaz forward slash code dash syntax dash and block. I don't suppose anybody watching, uh, as plagued with that, but if you have, that would be marvelous to tell us whether it works or not, but, ah, thanks. Yeah. Um, Paul, I think we're going to be handed over to you.
Now, if you to introduce the next little here,
Paul Lacey: [00:14:20] it's funny segue in a way, cause you called this colored syntax book plugin, which improves again, the core part of what of WordPress that, you know, the first question you ask is, does it do that? And the answer is no. And then someone else in the community has made a plugin that does do it.
And I really wonder about, um, You know, I'm really thankful for the people who write these plugins that fix the things that we'll probably end up in core because you think, I guess there's not really a massive financial reason they're doing it because. If it's a really good idea, we all get taken on an appearing call, so thankful to those kinds of people.
Um, also, so, so the one I was going to segue into was this, uh, block navigation plugin, it's called the block navigation. Plug-in it's by someone called Alvaro Garcia. And this is an article on, um, Uh, as, as usual work-wise Tavern, uh, by just in Tagalog. And I think it's just funny because it's, um, it shows how we rely on WP Tavern because this article is just in discovering a plugin that it's been out for two years, and I've only just found this will cover that as well.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:15:34] I really liked it as well though. It was the article is. Yeah, perfect for this time. Anyway, I'll
Paul Lacey: [00:15:40] explain what the article, what the plugin is and what the article is. So, um, Justin, he's just saying he's found is really, really useful plugin and what the plugin does. It's called the block navigation plugin.
It massively improves the ability to see in context, the full structure of your block layout in your, in your, in your, um, editor view. So there is in, uh, in the Gutenberg editor, there is a kind of. Button that you can press and you can kind of see a list of all the different elements, but I know this, this not everyone who's watching this.
So if anyone could see what we're looking at on the screen at the moment, they would see that it's not that you can't really make out what the context is. For instance, it's just a whole load of. Paragraph blocks usually that it shows you that, whereas the plugin is creative by, um, uh, just check his name again.
the block navigation plugin gives you a really wonderful user interface to see the context of your whole editor and it makes great use of space. So again, it's like something that we cover almost every week is that the Gutenberg editor is really struggling. For its use of space. And it seems to be against the concept of using popups or overlays and stuff like that.
From the main button that you press to choose a block with a small pop-up in the, that comes into the middle. And even then when you click on, for instance, block patterns, you end up in a left hand sidebar. So you kind of jumping from the right to the middle, to the left, to the middle, to the right all the time.
And, um, What's what's really nice about this is that the design of the plugin has been developing the story for the last few years and you've proved it and improved it. And you get a really fantastic overview of your document. If you can scroll down a little bit, Nathan and see it.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:17:26] Yeah. Um, for
Paul Lacey: [00:17:28] those who are watching
Nathan Wrigley: [00:17:29] this one, the current one there, this one here, I
Paul Lacey: [00:17:34] don't really see what's going on there, whereas this, this screen that we can see now, you can see that it tells you how many characters you've got sort of word count.
How many headings. And you can see or do different things and you can drag them around, which is really
Jan Koch: [00:17:46] though. Isn't
Nathan Wrigley: [00:17:46] it? This one is, yeah. The one that we're looking at here is
Jan Koch: [00:17:51] the information, but the one that Paul is referring to reminds me of the navigator and the mentor. Yes. All the sections. And what I love about that feature is you can stick it anywhere on the screen so you can keep it open while editing, and then you can just jump back in between session sections.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:18:08] This, um, this one that we're looking at at the moment is the sort of like the standard WordPress one, but you're unable to interact with it. So whilst it, so on the one hand, it's really good because it displays really clearly that, you know, there's a title here, and more importantly, it tells you what the title is, which for the title is probably not that important.
But when we get down to like the H two and the H three level, it may very well be that you, you know, you've got, you've got an article and you want to reorder it quickly and you want to find the right bit that you're looking for. And that. That looks great, but you can't do anything with it. It's just for display purposes.
Only. Now this one that we can see now is what we've got. Um, and that's useless that you can interact with, you can drag that up and down. So it's called the list view and all you can see is there's an image at the top, and there's a bunch of paragraphs, but it doesn't give you any indication as to what is contained within the paragraph.
And so. This warm, where are we? How are
Paul Lacey: [00:18:59] you going to go to the top of the article and click on the actual plugin? And you can see in the header graphic, what it kind of looks like, but it's kind of combined the druggable, uh, ability of what goes in Burke house with that summary view. So you've got to kind of mix,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:19:14] excuse me, guys.
I'm going to have to go for a second because as somebody who's just walked into my house and shouting, hello, and I don't know who it is and I'm gonna
Paul Lacey: [00:19:25] yeah. So I can't scroll up knife and screen at the moment, but if you were able to go and check the block navigation link, that is just cheekily, just sticking out the top of the screen there, that we can't click. If you were to click that you would see, um, what the user interface is of that. And like, um, young, you said it's similar to something like what you get in, um, elemental, it's similar to what you get in oxygen.
And you can see in context, we've kind of indents and stuff. You will have whole structure. It's really, really useful if you're kind of duplicating things and moving stuff around. So, um, and I know that, you know, having tested the block editor with some of my clients recently, um, doing that is something that they like to do a lot.
They get a layout it's sorted. They complicate that you create an entire. Um, rev stuff and then they move it around. Um, we can probably move on to the next one. Uh, we can't get it on screen, but I think I can, um, pull it up, put it up on here anyway. So there's two articles that we're looking up. Um, one of them is called, I think it's by, um, Rooney.
Kemal. Yeah, he basically does with African. Okay, Nathan.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:20:32] Yeah, it was the most, I will, I will tell you because it's about an hour ago, a guy delivered a package and, uh, and it had our address on it and I opened it up and it was a Hoover, like a vacuum cleaner. And I, I hadn't ordered a vacuum cleaner anyway, the guy who delivered it, just let himself in and started walking around downstairs, trying to find it.
Jan Koch: [00:20:58] Do you need to really big
Nathan Wrigley: [00:20:59] CPD is the company that just did that. So I should be on the phone later asking why he's allowed himself to coming to my house. That was most peculiar. Anyway. Sorry, Paul.
Paul Lacey: [00:21:11] So, right. I thought you were going to say you had a big package delivered and it turned out there was an imposter inside the package.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:21:22] only thing was the address was perfectly correct. It was addressed to my house. So I did receive it cause I just assumed maybe my wife had ordered something, but, but neither of us have anyway, just decided to come and yeah. Take it back,
Paul Lacey: [00:21:34] take it back. I had a similar thing. Oh, I see you really just similar finger of a takeaway.
The takeaway . And it came a lot quicker than a foyer was going to. So I was in the garden with my dog, taking, taking her out for, you know, to get used the toilet kind of thing. And I came back into the house and there was like a takeaway bag inside my lounge. It's like, Oh wow. How did that get in there? I was glad that they did that, but it was still.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:22:02] On nerving that the guy decides, yes. I mean, I normally leave the, the door on the latch because the kids come home at this time of day. So just before we start recording, I'll go down, open the door. But that was kind of weird. I've never had that before in my life. Scary. And he was much bigger than me.
Paul Lacey: [00:22:23] Yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:22:23] Anyway, let's get back to WordPress. That's
Paul Lacey: [00:22:32] Okay. So we were looking at the two articles that are quite similar. Um, one is who does, uh, so in one side of WordPress has the entire core team. And then on the other side of WordPress, doing everything else is Mooney. Yeah, basically. Yeah. He's doing a lot of stuff in around the block editor and Goodson Bergen and pushing things forward and seems to be always super optimistic about everything.
So yeah. Uh, which is really nice because it's always kind of looking at what is possible and, and kind of thinking about the future. It's it's nice. It's nice. So it's a really good article that you should check out. And he has a video as well, talking through the experience of creating a full website using the Gutenberg editor.
Um, the best thing to do is really to watch the video and having worked it, you can see. The possibilities. Uh, you can also see how, when you're editing it, it looks nothing like a website. It's all, it's quite, it's nice to have money at talking you through, but you think, wow. If I came back to it next day, after I'd heard, you know, Uh, lack of sleep or something.
I would not know where I got to because nothing in there, it looks like a website that you actually have. It's an interface, but it's a really good insight into where we're at by someone who really understands exactly where we're at at this point with full site editing. And he's completely separate to the whole project.
We have another article by, um, w well, the article is by just entitled. I think.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:24:06] I'm sorry, I'm on the wrong one. I'm on the
Paul Lacey: [00:24:09] it's the block-based Basco.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:24:13] I can find that. There we go. This one, WP Tavern. Block-based Bosco. Second full site editing theme London, WordPress directory.
Paul Lacey: [00:24:20] Yep. So this is a similar kind of thing to what muni has done, except that, um, The person who created this, I think it's called Frank client works for human made.
And also I think is in some way associated with autistic. The reason I think that is because his, some of his previous themes that are in there are. Attributed to automatic rather than him as an individual. So I think, but I think human made an automatic have some kind of relationship anyways. Uh, so he's released a theme, a really stupid, super simple, simple theme based on a thing that he created in the traditional way.
Back in 2014 called Bosco. It, he's got a couple of different things. He's chose this one because it's very simple. And he's, he's kind of a different approach to money in that. He's, he's talking about this from doing it for the first time. So he's got a theme that is created years ago, and he's documented in an article which is linked from Justin's article.
Um, in an article called what I learned building a full site editing theme, and he talks you through the challenges. The possibilities is quite optimistic about the future, but he's very Frank about some of that. And that's not a plan. I'm very Frank about some of the, the challenges. And the shortcomings that definitely are faced, um, trying to create a fully block-based theme.
So anyone it's really nice that he's done that though, because it makes a point, I think, just to make the point that, um, anyone who's thinking about trying this, it's a really good thing to read first, because you can read this. And now all the pitfalls that you would likely going to be falling into and not have to worry about them.
Whereas as article is more kind of, he knows all this stuff already, so he's, he's kind of showing you how it's done. So it's really nice to have those two articles in the same week. Really? So, um,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:26:11] yeah, it is fascinating. I think we've been really spoiled. Haven't we with the, certainly since the advent of.
Solutions like Beaver builder. And what have you, where, what you see really is what you get. And just sort of, that is the expectation that I've got now. And it, it, although I'm a big proponent of Gutenberg and I can see the path forward for it. I, it still is kind of quirky that we're in the situation where, um, something in which you described Paul was, if, you know, if you had a bad night's sleep and came back to it, you wouldn't really know where to go from there.
And that, that is. I mean, I know that that wasn't the purpose of it, but it seems that that would be the desirable place to get to, but it feels like that's not where we're trying to get to it. You know, it looks like the block editor is never trying to get to the point where exactly what's on the screen, um, is what you're going to have and probably is constrained by these bars on either side.
Cause everything's always going to be super narrow. I'm on a 15 inch. Mac book. And when I've got, um, when I've got the WordPress admin sidebar, plus I've got Gutenberg and I've got the, the sidebar on the right and something's happening with I don't the Syprine, I've got like a, I've got this tiny little gap for editing in the middle.
Um, whereas if that exact, the exact same screen used with Beaver builder, I can see the whole thing, literally all of it, you know, you just have you invoke the pop-up or the pop-out, whatever it's called, um, which has all the tools in it. And I can drag that if I want it to be over the left or move it to the left and just everything slides underneath, it just seems like that's.
That's where we want to get to, but we're not getting there. And I know that Bernard's wild, wild West. I think that's still there, but lovely to see people pushing the boundaries, these two articles, as you've said, really nice coming at it from sort of different directions. And this is, this is where it's going.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:28:01] I was having to chat with
Jan Koch: [00:28:02] nice question in the Facebook treads search and drop Nathan, Sean, Sean us is Gutenberg going to Kurt BeaverBuilder and ELA mentor. Fight.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:28:14] I think it will take a chunk out of their business because I think there'll come a time where people it's good enough for most people. And if there's a decent enough set of tutorials out there and you can achieve what you want to do, I think it probably will, you know, take some of those customers, but I don't suppose for a minute, it's going to take them all.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:28:35] I don't think it will take away from it, a mentor people there, at least if they stay a hat or iterate on what's already there. I think it's it's it's it's it's it's, we'll pull from others maybe. And, uh, enable people to build better sites without any additional tools. Like somebody who has just used the normal editor.
And how can you scoot in Brook for them? It's an improvement
Nathan Wrigley: [00:29:00] thing. Yeah.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:29:01] I think it's a different audience, like, like people builder and Elementor have a different audience. I just recently saw a video where it's become very clear that some designer focused people may be like elemental more because they can do more with it because you cannot almost.
Every CSS thing, you can this and that to know what they are, it's feels a little bit messy, but it works and it allows you more freedom. And then you have the people building for, for the more experienced, maybe developer focused minded guy, or for people who like stability and stuff. Yep. Gutenberg will always be there for people starting out.
Um, maybe the likes of VP bakery, or however, however you call them will go away. And when ish, because. There's no real advantage for them. Hopefully. Um, yeah, a lot of the page builders will still play their niche role, I think because the whole business is increasing. So I don't think it's really about the competition.
It's it's about getting your niche and your share of the market.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:30:06] Yeah, it feels to me like when full site editing comes along, I think that'll be enough for a significant amount of people. You know, they've got a site and. I would, I, I don't know what the statistics are, but I'm imagining that still WordPress is used for creating posts by a lot of people who log in, create posts, click, publish, or schedule, and then log out again.
In other words, they're just, they're just not updating content on a calendar schedule basis. And, and for that. If you can, if you can style the, you know, the main navigation, if you can add your logo and if you've got a photo, which is site-wide, and that can be done relatively easily with a blog. And to be honest, that's good enough, isn't it?
You know, I've got three horizontal blocks. I'm going to put the menu in there in the footer and I'll put a logo over there and I'll put some copyright text over there and my menu is the navigation. And then you just. I'll never need to look at that again. That's going to be fine, but I think the likes of Paul and probably burn it, I'm sure.
Um, Yan as well, you know, we've just got spoiled by this idea that every single page can be utterly bespoken. Amazing. Um, and yeah, well, flying was beginning
Jan Koch: [00:31:18] trying to build a page with Gutenberg right now. I don't like it, but I don't like it.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:31:26] Have you installed any of the third party, additional block packs?
You know, the cadence or the QT or the
Jan Koch: [00:31:33] Katie is on there and I'm using a cadence, a starter pack template, so that I'm not starting from scratch, but I'm just working on a very extensive blog post, which will probably end up around 10,000 words.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:31:45] And
Jan Koch: [00:31:46] that really is messy. Okay. It's messy in any editor
Nathan Wrigley: [00:31:50] I would assume.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm making quite a lot of reuse of reusable blocks just because of the fact that a lot of the content that I produce has got the exact same structure. So, you know, a podcast episode has a shortcode where the, where the audio player goes and I just copy and paste the, the actual MP3 URL. And, and then it's got the same text over and over again.
And for that it's absolutely brilliant. You know, you just drag in a reusable or click or reusable block, make it re what is it? What's the word for it when you make it editable or non? I can't remember. Anyway, editable. Editable make editable. Yeah. And then try not to click save because you've just overwritten it with this week's piece of news is that our last week's book for that?
It's brilliant. It's really good. I used all sorts of SAS apps in the past to try to achieve what Gutenberg now can do for me. I'm very happy, very happy with it.
Paul Lacey: [00:32:40] Um, I'm convinced that there's some bag isn't gonna, and the full thing isn't going to make a dent in a mentor or BeaverBuilder for at least three years.
That's where I'm at. Unless the only way I see making a difference is that if a third party, you know, like, you know, team element or something, I've got a secret project where they're basically saying, okay, we've figured out a way to use the elemental or UI that creates block layouts for full site editing.
And then that would be valuable to me. Uh, that would be like, Oh, that would get, you know, get people waking up. I think that. Personally, I think that Beaver builder and Elementor are constantly onboarding new customers and some of them go out the other end and move on to something different. And the ones that are moving on to something different are often the really techie ones.
Like for instance, if you see a lot of people in the January, press community, a lot of those are quitting elementary or B because they know what almost born does with his. Uh, generate blocks put in. Um, but having watched some clients struggling to create simple layout. So for example, um, I watched, uh, I didn't watch, but I cleaned up and fixed.
It took me ages, a client layout, they got a shock thing going on. So for a Christmas page, they've got a bunch of different things and Lincoln off the different websites. You can buy this, you can buy this, you can buy this. And they had a bunch of images. And then text them through each image and then a button under each image.
And so they used column with three images. Then they put another three columns in and put the text on them. So it totally messed up in response that didn't occur to them to worry about.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:34:25] That just looks fine on desktop.
Jan Koch: [00:34:30] I had an issue with Gutenberg because I had a friend to the same thing in ELA mentor justice
Nathan Wrigley: [00:34:36] weekend.
Paul Lacey: [00:34:37] Yeah, I'd say that it was, it would probably be more yes to their general people in elemental. They got that wrong because, because you are looking at the front end view and you've got this button to switch you to tablet and to maple, and you'd be like, Oh, why is my button completely nowhere near that image now.
Whereas, whereas when you even in good, even in generate blocks, when you switch between the different, uh, tablet and mobile options, you see no feedback. In your editor, you just, an often you can forget that you're in that tab because you know, you're not seeing any visual feedback or anything or that. So I don't, I don't see that, like the average user will make that choice.
I think that there will be a new. So it'll just be one of the choices that some of the people take to go down that route. But I think the other plugins will still keep onboarding people that read an article, like what we're going to talk about. I mean, it background cloud and guys, and see someone say like, what, what do you want to use?
You got the easy one, the stable one, or the really powerful advanced one say, you know, the, the easy one is going to be something like elemental, the stable one. That's going to be like Beaver builder. And then the really advanced one. But you've got to work really hard. We've been to stick with the, that there, and the pros and cons of each will be less bloke with the Gutenberg editor, et cetera.
I just think that just the massive people who use WordPress or not, and not going to get on well with the full site editing as it is, unless someone steps in and makes it. The front, um,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:36:12] uh, I think this is, this is worth mentioning. So we've got Peacher. Who's watching. Thank you, Peacher. Um, so she says it's not like a build that many websites, but when I do, I don't even touch Gutenberg.
I can't get used to it. Bear in mind that in a design career spanning at least two decades. I have used so many design tools. This one, I just can't find them. No, it's almost like a car that's half built. It's um, you know, the wheels turn round. It's going to, you're going to get wet,
Bernhard Gronau: [00:36:38] but I thought I get it because UX and UI, like peak, it tells wonderfully.
Sometimes it's a new thing. . Should be part of every product about how we approach that. And I don't know, wild, wild West Gutenberg. I don't know because they seem to have, I don't know how they started the, if, if the, if the whole staff works in the background, but it seems there is a missing link sometimes, but I don't know.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:37:08] Hi. Sorry. Yeah, that's it. And that's okay. I'm sorry. I think Paul and I had a conversation, maybe it was me and you, maybe it was just, maybe it was David Walmsley. I can't remember. And it occurred to us that maybe it would have been better just to buy out. You know what I mean? Automatic got fairly deep pockets just to buy out something like.
Beaver builder. I think probably now they couldn't buy elemental, even if they want,
Paul Lacey: [00:37:38] imagine
Jan Koch: [00:37:38] the waves that will make
Nathan Wrigley: [00:37:43] I, this was going back like, you know, when they, when they launched Gutenberg, uh, you know, eight months prior to that, So sometime in sort of 2017 or something just bought Beaver builder and said, this is what we're going to develop on top of clearly a controversial comment. But, um,
Paul Lacey: [00:37:59] uh, Lee, Jackson's got a very relevant comment.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:38:07] Oh, this one, the one that we're looking at now
for that. Yeah. It's the, yeah, it's the second tier row. Isn't it? You know, Jackson's thing. So polling Yana, my man crushes. I'm not afraid to it. Well, he's actually written, I'm not afraid to add him in this. So I'm sure he meant admit this. Um, this is therapeutic. Thank you. We aim to please, um, leave, lie down and tell me about your father.
Paul Lacey: [00:38:43] well, it's a cool it's actually, it looks like we've got all the Mavericks from cloud wise here. So
Jan Koch: [00:38:50] Brenda
Paul Lacey: [00:38:53] here as well, because Brent's one of the new Mavericks. Isn't he? So.
Jan Koch: [00:38:56] Yeah. PR Brenda's the latest addition to the team.
Paul Lacey: [00:38:58] Yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:38:59] Tell us about this then, because I'm always interested because this team, it seemed like it was a fairly solid little.
So we're talking about cloud-based first. We're going to be looking at an article called, uh, on WP shop called cloud ways versus wrong cloud and honest review. But, um, Lee Jackson, who's on the call and Peter who's on the call and Yan. I very often see you. Uh, doing stuff in the cloud ways, um, you know, on cloud ways, live streams like we're doing now, what is that program?
How does it work? What's the benefit? What is it? What's the purpose of it?
Jan Koch: [00:39:31] It's called CloudWatch metrics. And the purpose is that we provide value value. Quote unquote, or however you want to define that to the workers community. So we do that by hosting weekly, a UI and UX reviews from cloud-based users, where they can submit their website and then the pitcher.
And I share our thoughts on them. We do that by interviewing guests. We do that by creating written form content. A pitcher has been working on a UI and UX project with cloud-based recently we launched the. Partner program, the agency partner program, which Paul is a part of. So that is really, really exciting.
And, um, yeah, essentially, it's just not about setting cloud ways. It's about educating the WordPress community and sharing knowledge really.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:40:20] Is it something that, um, that you, is it sort of paywall around? Cause I mean, I get the emails, um, and I, I. I can watch those events. Do you have stuff which is sort of like pay world?
If you're a cloud-based customer, you can, you know, it's all available. Right, right. Just philanthropic stuff, just using a bunch of talented people to disseminate knowledge. Right. And on that,
Jan Koch: [00:40:40] I had a great comment for that. Thank
Nathan Wrigley: [00:40:42] you. What does she put, Oh, is it this last year? We just flag her on a daily basis on a number of platforms.
Excellent. I know this feeling, um, the, the asker is WP shouts and it's called cloud ways versus wrong cloud and honest review. So I'm guessing it's fair to say that cloud ways and run cloud do a very similar thing. Perhaps there's a few edge cases where. One service does one thing and another service does another.
So putting these things head to head does seem like a decent thing. And Paul, I know you've taken a read. What do you make of it?
Paul Lacey: [00:41:17] It's a really good article, but I do trust the people from dark Michelle because they've created some really good courses and stuff in the past that, uh, very, you know, show you how to do proper theme development in the old, in the, in the traditional sense, how to do proper plugin development and a note that they're kind of, they would go to a lot of the events and those sort of things.
So. But they've always wrote really nice articles that, um, that it just completely, uh, it seemed to me very honest. Um, and what, what this article is really good at doing is. Is showing the nuance differences and similarities between something like cloud ways and something like run cloud because they are similar, but they also are fundamentally different as well.
And so you get an idea reading this article, what you get into, if you've been listening to the hype about run cloud, the hype about cloud waste, for instance, and from my perspective, reading this. I basically agree with everything that they've said in this article, because I spend over $300 a month on cloud ways.
I spend over a hundred dollars a month on surface fire run cloud. I'm I'm a cloud race agency partner. Is that what I am is I'm in the partnership program, which is fantastic. Uh, I get, uh, a third tier of support and stuff like that, and I get a discount as well, which is cool. And, um, yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:42:38] Can I just interrupt you there?
Do you get that because, um, because you consume a certain amount of their product each month, or is that something,
Paul Lacey: [00:42:45] I mean, young young can say more about this from my perspective as an agency. If you spend a certain amount of money, there's different tiers of this new thing that the, uh, the Mavericks team have basically designed with the wrong cloud, uh, the, uh, cloud waste team and depending on, so if I, if I was to spend a lot more money, I could get even more cool things and stuff.
Um, but it's like, I like this article because I've got associations with both organizations. I know people in both of the companies, like I say, I'm an agency on the agency partner program, which. It's totally free to me and anyone else who is spending a certain amount of money. So it's just a bonus. Uh, and then as we're run cloud, I was kind of unofficially and probably identify I'm not unofficially anymore.
Like a, a brand and Buster. I never really did anything. And then COVID happened and stuff like that. So, um, but I know people in both organizations have got associations with them and they use both of those products. I know I read the article and I completely agree. With the use case for the different, you know, if you are, if you want it a bit easier than Glo go with cloud ways, if you're a bit more techie, but you're not that techie then run cloud is worth getting into.
And then they do a great cost comparison. That kind of shows that if you had 10 sites or one site. So in theory, cloud ways is. Cheaper with one site on one server run cloud gets cheaper as soon as you have more than it talks about the different tech stats stack. So at the moment, both of the products, both run cloud and cloud, those are both improving.
And catching up with each other on different things where they're ahead. So cloud-based, I'm sure is working on a, um, an engine X, uh, stack purely. It might even have it already, uh, run cloud already has that. Whereas a cloud-based has things like integrations with email, for, um, For sending, uh, transactional emails and one client doesn't have that yet, but that they're doing it.
And so there's all this, this is pros and cons essentially cloud-based is different because you buy your servers via cloud ways when you, when you, when you, um, buy a server. So if you're kind of nervous about things, you can feel like I've got one place to talk to. If there's something that goes wrong, I can talk to the cloud-based team, especially as an agency, whereas we run cloud.
You can talk to run cloud and they will support you in more or less exactly the same way, but they don't, they're not necessarily applied to do so. It does say at the end of the article as well, if you really want hands-off, none of them are a good choice. You should probably go with or something. But the cool thing is that the guy who wrote the article has migrated from psych ground.
So he's kind of put site ground behind him, which is a lot of us, all of us, more or less on that journey gets to that point where we put shared hosting behind us fundamentally, and we moved to sign us. And if we're a bit. If we, if we're interested in tech and value for money, we tend to go for VPSs with we've a cloud ways or run cloud or something like that.
If we want hands-off we go with . So that's all I'll say on that. I mean, um, great article, uh, it's it's horses for courses.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:45:53] The, the problem I think with this kind of technology is that if you're just beginning, it's almost impenetrable to read through because they're matching each other and they're trying to get parity for feature set.
Although, as you've said, Paul, because you, you know, the ins and outs much better, there's one thing which one has. And one thing which another one doesn't have, but from the outside, it would take me a really long time to figure that out. So an article like this really. Sort of surfaces that really quickly.
So yeah. I'm glad that you liked that one as well. And I'm sure you guys,
Jan Koch: [00:46:23] one thing that makes this article stand out for me is that it's not selling any of these. Most often. We see these were posting comparisons. They try to tell you on both because they get affiliate commissions for both. And this one is just a really.
As they say an honest review, it's really unbiased review.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:46:41] Um, so you're looking to go to w P shout.com forward CloudWave versus wrong cloud. An honest review. Uh, what day was it published? 34 now,
Bernhard Gronau: [00:46:50] um, there are a few others that do stuff like that. First comes to mind, like spin up, repeat from the guys behind the microwave, PP stuff
Nathan Wrigley: [00:47:00] like that.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:47:02] And another one, which is a little bit more known around deaths that think it's great pain. Which is, I think I would place it in between, uh, Kingston and cloudware so I don't know. Yeah. Or on cloud more, more on cloud because yeah, but they're more expensive. So, and there are others too, uh, or even use your own VTS locally, all stats class, or, or other stuff.
So it's, it's sometimes all of those options are a little bit better than just, uh, And shared hosting somewhere. If you going to do a little bit more than just host your blog, I mean,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:47:40] yeah. Yeah. Always nice to read an honest review of these kinds of things. Just putting two up against each other is really helpful to me because often it's like six, you just get lost, but just to, yeah.
Comparing the, you know, uh, this feature against this feature one at a time. Very nice. Very good.
Paul Lacey: [00:48:00] You know, one thing is that reminds me about this article is that it's similar to the one that Frank Kline did about creating a theme. You can tell that this article is unwritten because the author has.
Decided to weigh up the pros and cons of each one. And then, then it's, and then it's done deep research and then, you know, come up with a nose they attack as well. So they understand it, um, about run cloud. I will say that I did see in the Facebook group, but they're releasing this week. Um, the incremental backup, um, fuel to run cloud, which is something that cloud raises hard for a long, long time and, uh, was, you know, something that would hold a lot of people back from jumping to any kind of panel.
That wasn't cloud wise, uh, having like an incremental application level backup, which is a really nice feature. Um, that's a great thing. I don't understand what green paint is actually quite, so I don't, I don't know if you know what it is Bernard, but I know people that work there understand. What, what is it?
Is it a party
Bernhard Gronau: [00:49:02] it's been up? It's basically the same, like run cloud or spin up with it. It's just, they have fun and tech stack that get, that gets deployed on a server you provide at the end that all of them do. So you get the server at some point we'll cloud with you just. Get the server by cloud-based.
So they purchase it for you. I'm not sure if they allow you to provide your own server. I didn't look at softwares in that area, so they don't allow you to take your own server, but whoops, spin up weepy or reflux, run cloud or recruit pane. You can even enter just a server. You have staying at home. If it's on the internet or you have faulted for, from any local provider and let them configure your server.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:49:53] Sorry. Um, I had Patrick Gallagher on from grid pain on the podcast. I don't know. It must be a year ago now. And I don't know if they've pivoted at all since then, but the USP at that point was as few clicks as possible to get the whole thing going. So in other words, just one memorable thing was the fact that you've logged into grid pane.
In order to set up your WordPress website, they don't ask you for a username and password. They just provide the username and password that you've already given to grid pane to log in over there. And, and it's just little, that was the premise is just find an area where you can save a few seconds and implement it.
And I, I don't know, to be honest with you, I haven't really heard a lot. Of them. They were, they were very noisy for a long time and it's probably just the circles that I'm moving in. They, um, they don't seem to be making quite the noise that they were this time last year. Um, I don't know.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:50:46] Yeah, they had some really, really strong black Friday deals going on last
Nathan Wrigley: [00:50:51] year and they'll put them right here.
Jan Koch: [00:50:53] The, the lifetime, I think they were back the lifetime deals on black Friday. I think.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:50:59] Okay. Say maybe, maybe WP shell we'll have to do the four or five hosts article in the nephews, including the ones that we've just mentioned. I am going to shift it over a little bit because the time is sort of running out that the next one, a total change of direction.
Although we are back to Gutenberg, my, my ideal. Out of any editor basically, is that it is Google docs. That's what I want. Right. I want it. That is to say, if I'm writing text, I want it to be Google docs. I have this fabulous service called workable and, um, it's a SAS app. And basically you, you install the plugin over on the WordPress side and allow it access to your Google drive.
And you go into WordPress and you press a button and it finds every article that you've written in Google docs and you just press import. And it sucks in all the, all the H ones and HTS, and it works remarkably well. And the intention for that is because you can collaborate so well in Google, but I mean, it's just a joy to write collaboratively in Google docs and.
I think the intention in the next couple of years over on the WordPress side is that the, the, the B the ability to be able to concurrently edit things is, is, is hoped to happen. But I make use of quite a lot of comments in Google docs. In other words, I'll send something to somebody and expect a bunch of comments back.
And, and so we've got this lovely new plugin. Um, it's called, uh, what's it called? It's called multi dots. No, it's not. That's that it's called Google docs, style, Gutenberg block commenting. And it simply does that. It enables you if you've got a Gutenberg document to mimic the, the commenting element. And so if you were looking at the screen, you can basically highlight a piece of text, press the comment button.
And write something which attaches itself to that piece of tech. So I don't know, you might, for example, wish to change a word and you want send that over to your editor. And I just think this should be in core for a, from a CMS where for most people writing is the point. This would be absolutely fabulous.
I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. I don't know. In all honesty,
Jan Koch: [00:53:15] I agree that, that the collaboration with comments and exceptional.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:53:20] Yeah, yeah. I mean, can you imagine, do you remember the first time you saw that? The first time you actually saw somebody typing on your document. I mean, if you're anything under the age of 30, you'll just be like yawn what this is.
But for the rest of us who had to like send things via literal floppy desk to in the post, you know, and then wait five days for it to come out. And then Microsoft invented like modest collaboration. You could save comments and send it over the internet. And so, and now we're just spoiled and. I don't know if there's a CMS, which does this already.
I think it must be on the service side, incredibly intensive, but that's the, that's the promise. And it just feels like a little plugin, like this gets us, gets us a little way closer to it, so, yeah. Okay. Oh look. Yeah, we've got another comment. Um, about another Bonnie shell.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:54:13] It just started
Nathan Wrigley: [00:54:16] as another, another thing to add to the list, but, um, yeah.
I don't know if you guys collaborate on documents very much. Um, I do all the time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Bernhard Gronau: [00:54:26] And just use Google docs, use the result to, to put into WordPress while you can do many stuff with WordPress. It isn't always a good idea to do it.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:54:41] Yeah, well, certainly at the moment it's a poor, it's a poor relation.
It'll come I'm sure. But, um, I was reading the other day about how many photographs, Google process at each, you know, each day or something along those lines with this Google photo, that's sort of shuttering the free, free uploads. And you know, they've just got the manpower haven't they they've got the computer sitting there.
They can cope with any number of docks. Whereas your little, your little survey, a little shared hosting server is going to get hammered. Uh, if you start to collaborative documents, anybody want to add, or shall I quickly move on? Okay. In which case I will quickly move on. I got contacted by a couple of people in the community this week, and I did promise that I would mention the things that they put in my direction, because I thought they were worth mentioning this.
Oh, goodness me. Look at that as a great big pop up. This first one, um, came from Berkowitz. I hope I pronounce your name. Birgit correctly. There's a, a live Q and a. And if you click on the link, you'll have to wait until tomorrow morning, unless you can Google this. Basically it's not a webpage. It is a goo it's a zoom link.
And the topic is it's just a nice event that I think I would like to be part of. It's a case study the making of the open source story by Yoast. Um, with blocks and it's just exactly that you can see it here. We're thrilled to have the yolks partner and CTO. Omar. How do you say that? Is it Reese? Um, and blog team lead will.
And Carla back come, sorry. I don't know how to pronounce your names on the Gutenberg times. Q and a. So it's like a webinar. But it's all about the open source journey. So I thought that was worth mentioning. And the, the last one that I want to mention, this one came from Michelle for share. This could probably open up a, an interesting conversation or kind of worms, whichever way you want to look at it.
This is called on the represented in tech and I believe that's the URL. Yeah. On the represented in tech.com. Um, and it's a website designed by Michelle for Schatz. Paul, do you remember who else it was? . Allie Nimmons and possibly some others. It seems to have the support. I don't know if they're backing it financially or providing, I don't know what they're providing, but WP buffs GravityView term again and century who I think Michelle works for.
Um, and the intention is that if you are underrepresented, if you are part of a community, which is underrepresented, you can submit a profile to suggest that you would like to find work. And if you are minded to provide. Uh, opportunities to people who failed themselves to be underrepresented. You can do that over here.
I've never seen anything quite like this before. It's such an interesting, interesting idea. And
Paul Lacey: [00:57:25] Michelle is just somebody who just whatever she's involved in. She's always giving and helping people. I mean, she works for gift, you know, Just somebody who the community is lucky to have involved. I don't know.
Um, Allie Neiman's, uh, personally, I just, I, I, I, you know, Michelle and yeah, like I say, just one of those, like stars of the WordPress community, just doing good stuff for must be a lot of her personal time. I know she's involved in different organizations. Well, I bet a lot of this is a personal time invested in this kind of
Nathan Wrigley: [00:58:04] just wants to level the playing field.
I'd probably just read a little bit out. So is, are you a member of an underrepresented group working in tech, submit your profile above and we'll ask you a series of questions. I confess I haven't done it. So I don't know what the questions may be, uh, will help us index you in the database. Once your submission has been approved, you'll be added.
You will get an email with a confirmation. We're happy to change your profile if you need us to no longer looking, let us know. Um, and then the flip side of that coin. Yeah. Do you have a company or project or event that you would like to enrich by involving more underrepresented individuals, uh, select find contributors of choose the specialties that you require for this opportunity.
You'll be matched immediately with a filter database of profiles, contact the individual, using the contact information provided in that profile. So I don't know, um, who qualifies for that for filling it out. But anyway, there you go. Under represented in text.
Paul Lacey: [00:58:53] You can, you can get to the, you can take on fine contributors.
There as well, um, click on that and you can, you can take on the different categories and then it will show you a list of people you could hire. I like it cause it's just, there's there's no, um, you know, we've kind of marketplaces and stuff like that. There's always a business motivation, financial motivation between all the marketplaces and everything.
This is, this has got a different angle to it. It's this community project.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:59:24] Nice. Yeah, it is nice. One thing that I think Paul dropped off our list this weekend, which we may want to come back to next week is the, the abdomen, uh, overview. I think somehow we managed to not put that on. Did we have we missed that one?
I think we did. Oh, well, let's leave that for another week. I've got nothing else to add. That's perfect. Timing.
Jan Koch: [00:59:43] The updates,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:59:50] right. Full disclosure, earn that helps out on the pods project and drop your URL somewhere, which I'm endeavoring to find. No, he hasn't. You just want to take the stage and talk about it? Yeah.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:00:02] Yeah, there is no, because I guess we are lacking a little bit of. Communicating within the team of parks because, you know, comm community around staff.
And if there is no personal, it's really that picks up a spokesperson. Or I don't know, it just doesn't happen. But Scott posted a, some, a little bit of updates last week into the Slack channel, of course, but everybody can try it. So if you have any questions or want to help out, just feel free to chime or select titles, just like the pots that I owe, it's just simple.
And then you can join it. And, uh, we're making very good progress on the 2.8 release. So I think it's around three to 400 hours of. That was our first already put into it because there is a full rewrite going on to have everything working with react for the, for the user interface. We already have that partly for the dynamic team fuse, like the relationship stuff.
If everybody uses it, my personal favorite, um, that's not counting. Called us himself or, or support or whatever is going on besides step. So Anthony helped you have a release a better soon, you know what happens, especially with rewrites. It's hard to tell. And this, uh, listed the ground work for futures for features in the future, like, uh, repeating fields and stuff like that.
So I always say we've already have that work relationship fields. It's kind of a new field. Just the content is stored in a different custom post type. So there you go.
Paul Lacey: [01:01:41] It's
Bernhard Gronau: [01:01:42] most of the time, I think it's even better than her to have looping fields because it's, the content is separated. Like you would do it with a database table, so there are cases, but that doesn't make sense, I guess.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:01:54] So it's, it's, it's,
Bernhard Gronau: [01:01:55] it's good to that. We have the chance to implement
Nathan Wrigley: [01:01:58] that in the future. If, um, if I wanted to go and find out regularly where all of this stuff is updated, what's the URL for pods updates.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:02:08] Yeah. I mean, there's the blog, which gets not really comment. I will just put up I Oh,
Nathan Wrigley: [01:02:15] okay.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:02:16] Um, um, if you want to support pots, it's friends, stop pop style.
Um, I posting into private chat. Then you can
Nathan Wrigley: [01:02:25] copy and paste it.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:02:27] Like, it's just like
Nathan Wrigley: [01:02:32] Okie doke. So that's the, that's the main URL, if it will come up. Oh, I've just posted it in about 16 different places. That was kind of weird. Yeah. Um, I know, uh, is the main URL and if you wanted to become a friend and help contribute to the project, it's friends.pods.io. And if you want to join the Slack channel Slack.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:02:54] Yeah. Stuff like the blocks API, which is coming, uh, the groups, admin UI. So you can group your fields that's currently possible, but just you need code for it. So nobody really, nobody really uses it. Uh, yeah. And that's, that's helped out people who are maybe not that developer focused.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:03:17] Okay, thank you very much.
That is the, um, that's some good news coming up. Pots, 2.8 coming very, very soon. One would hope. Uh, well, knock on the head that was this week in WordPress. We'll be back next week. 2:00 PM. UK time. I don't know who my guests are. It will, no doubt includes both lately. And uh, some, at least one other person.
Uh, you, you, you guys, if you want to just sort of stick around for a few minutes, we'll have a little.
Paul Lacey: [01:03:41] Oh, something we could say as well that, uh, we are higher quality. But maybe not the content, but we are visually higher quality this week.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:03:53] The, the, the quality of the debates and the, and conversation largely driven by me is equally, you know, the, the usual mediocrity.
But, um, but the quality of the video has gone up this week. Like I said, we're using stream yard and I've, I've become less of a miser and I've decided to pay for there. The top tier and it comes out in 10 80 P slightly disappointing, you know, young said right at the beginning, uh, they only allowed seven 20 on Facebook.
Paul Lacey: [01:04:20] it's looking really clear,
Nathan Wrigley: [01:04:22] like in a team,
Jan Koch: [01:04:29] I have to look it.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:04:31] No, but no, but that was me as well. Um, Oh no, no, it was, it was Paul. Um,
I have a web account, just the ordinary webcam. I'm imagining Paul's the same. I know that Bernie is the same, whereas young you've taken it to the next level
Paul Lacey: [01:04:49] of
Bernhard Gronau: [01:04:50] my iPhone.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:04:51] Oh, you're using an iPhone. Okay. Which is, you know, it's still a modest camera compared to yam has gone right up. He's gone straight to the BBC.
Nick to one of their 50,000 pound cameras. And now what have you got gone? Tell us, cause some
Jan Koch: [01:05:04] people, if you 100 with, uh, a Sigma F 1.4 16 millimeter lens, I do have a video about that on my YouTube show.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:05:14] Oh, nice. You actually went to the level of like describing the setup. Oh, that's
Jan Koch: [01:05:18] I have this home office set up video.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:05:25] Thank you.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:05:27] It's on my list.
Jan Koch: [01:05:31] I've titled the video budget. It isn't it. The budget is 1.5. K.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:05:35] So
with that though, do you, do you think that was money well spent? I mean, are you like, obviously if. If like me, basically I'm on a screen one hour a week, that's it? You know, the rest of it would be web com chats with people on zoom and, and things like that. And I, I, it's a toss up for me whether that's worth it, but I think you're, I think you record yourself.
You're you're more equine on the screen.
Jan Koch: [01:06:01] Yeah. I tried to get the YouTube video video out at least two times a month. Okay. And then, then I do webinars at least four or five webinars a month.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:06:11] Yes. So
Jan Koch: [01:06:12] that I really value this and you can easily spend like five times of what I'm spending in terms of DSLR setups.
It really is a budget version. Okay, well, that's good enough.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:06:24] It is good enough. It looks actually
Paul Lacey: [01:06:26] frumpy visuals. I can see the difference you can see on mine. A very small set of weightlifting equipment is too blurry to notice how prophetic it is. And you want to split a fireplace? Yeah, it's almost
Nathan Wrigley: [01:06:42] always, Oh, I see it now.
I thought it was the part of the fire that stopped you falling in.
Paul Lacey: [01:06:49] No, so it doesn't even look like a set of plates. It's not
Nathan Wrigley: [01:06:54] elope to lift isn't it.
Paul Lacey: [01:06:57] But you will see in Bernard screen. The thing that we all know about, but not that nobody else does that. He's absolutely obsessed with elephants and you can see
Nathan Wrigley: [01:07:08] there's one over his shoulder
Paul Lacey: [01:07:12] everywhere.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:07:14] I'm not obsessed. I just happened to, I just, you know, always people bring your gifts and you don't meet them. So it's like, they both know what to give you and they just want to bring something. And at one point,
Jan Koch: [01:07:26] yeah,
Nathan Wrigley: [01:07:26] exactly. You must have suggested.
Bernhard Gronau: [01:07:29] Yeah. And that might be related to my father because he worked at the company.
Um, they are main, uh, most of the bank like this one. Can you see it? So that's the elephant from the bank. Um, maybe as a child, I just liked it, or I don't know. Whatever. And maybe I'm a little elephant myself. I don't know.
No, no. They're wonderful creatures. Um, yeah, I don't know what, just bring an elephant and then you get some of class and some of leather and some of like, like candles and I don't know, they exist in so many different variations.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:08:19] Send me a gift, please don't make it an elephant. Could it just be beer,
Xbox game, send Bernard and elephant young, young, well, I don't know. What does he want?
Paul Lacey: [01:08:38] Camera's from
Jan Koch: [01:08:38] uncle posts from other, wait a sec. Um, these are the figures,
by the way. That's why I paid $400 for the lens.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:08:53] What said that it does
Jan Koch: [01:08:55] because it goes into the, this blood pre-ground really is a lens effect. It's not a software.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:09:00] The thing is what's strange though, is I've met all three of these people in real life and both Paul and burner, they are quite blurry. You go up to them and there is this slight haze around the edge, but Yan is very crisp.
Um, he's much clearer. You can see him walking through a word camp arena
Paul Lacey: [01:09:22] really quickly is really focused, really quick.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:09:28] We've probably exhausted everything that there was about WordPress this week. Thank you for joining us. I'm going to end the show for the second time. We'll be back next week. Thanks for joining us. Take it easy. Bye guys.