[00:00:00] Welcome to the WP Builds podcast, bringing you the latest news from the WordPress community. Welcome your host, David Waumsley and Nathan Wrigley.
Hello there, and welcome to the WP Builds podcast. This is episode number 181 entitled how to visually build your WordPress translations with translate press. It was published on Thursday the 28th of May, 2020. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and just a few bits of housekeeping before you begin, if you wouldn't mind going over to the WP Builds podcast website over there, you'll find everything that we do.
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Speaking of the podcast this week, we have a really interesting one. This week I am joined by Adrian spack and we talk about, well, he's the cofounder of a plugin called translate press. Now, you may have found the need in the past to translate your website into multiple languages, and you've probably found a solution out there, but I venture to say that nothing will be quite.
like the translate press plugin, it's a little bit like a page builder in that it's very visual. You find something on the page that you would like to translate. You simply click it, use the the menu on the left hand side and add your translations. You want Japanese, you want French, you want German.
It's all in the left hand side panel. It's really, really straightforward to use. So we find out today why he built it, how it works as well as a whole bunch of. Premium add ons that you can throw in as well for all of your translation needs. So without further ado, I hope that you enjoy this week's podcast.
Hello there. Thank you for getting this far, making it to the interview. Part of the WP Builds podcast. Today I'm joined by Adrian Spiac. I hope I got that right. Wow. You got it. Perfect. Thank you for having me for, you're very welcome. It a little bit of coaching before, before I actually clicked record the, Adrian's joining us today because as we'll find out later, he, he and his team have got a fantastic product called translate press, but, we'll do some other chats before that just to sort of like familiarize ourselves with Adrian.
And the organization that he works for and his history and so on. So if it's all right with you, Adrian, I wouldn't mind beginning there. obviously you're in the WordPress space, you're on a WordPress related podcast. What's your, what's your background with WordPress? Do you, do you have, have you been using WordPress since the year.
Dot. I think my journey with WordPress started, around a decade ago. when I, you know, I first teamed up with one of my cofounders, Christian. And, we started like building websites and WordPress was really easy to use. It was, emerging due to its, user-friendliness and a growing community.
So we got into that and sort of never looked back. Yeah. How long ago was that? No, I think 10 years, maybe. 11 years. 2008 2009 beginning of 2009. Yeah. A nice long time ago. So you're sort of steeped in it. Were you, were you doing things with technology prior to that? Have you got a history of working with computers and.
You've got to particularly notable products. well one, one, some not so much a product, more of a kind of like a, an amalgamation of different things. We've got Cosmo labs, which you can find it. Cosmo with a Zed, Mo labs.com. And we've also got, translate press as well. Just wondering if we could spend a couple of minutes.
I know we hadn't necessarily scheduled to talk about this, but it might be nice to have a quick. Talk about Cosmo, Cosmo labs, what it is, what is it that you're doing over there? What have you, what have you collected together. And now that I think about it, I think that domain name, cosmos labs were definitely, was definitely taken.
You know, so we, we made a twist and cosmos labs and, yeah, so with cosmos labs, it started as a blog where, we wrote things, WordPress related. So, When we first started, we started a web development agency focusing on WordPress. And, Cosmos labs was, the blog where we started writing, you know, things we've learned, problems we had and so on.
And that's also where the place that, helped us launch our first product, which is called the profile builder, which is basically an all in one user registration and profile login. Aware of the can using it, you can easily create a custom user forms, add custom fields, list your users and so on. And why?
I'm saying that the blog helped us because, I think my colleague Christian wrote a post, regarding the limitation of the user registration in WordPress. The default user registration, everything was backend. You could not, collect any additional user data. And that post, I think was the most popular blog post on our blog for a year and something.
And due to that, you know, and got a lot of comments. So due to that, we, we decided to, you know, to take action and build something. So we built profile builder, which was our initial product. And, it was also the one which helped us make the transition from a web development agency, like from services to focusing solely on building WordPress products.
Right? So profile builder pro, is it still going strong or it has, yes. Up to this date, it's a, it's our best seller for cosmos labs, translate press, I think, well we'll get into that later, but, has even more potential. And then you've got a couple of others. You've got paid members. Sorry, I made a real hash of that.
Paid member subscriptions. And you've also got the WordPress creation kit. do you want to just briefly tell us what they are as well? So big member subscriptions, Built out of, several user feedback we received from profile builder users. They all wanted a simple way to create a paid user profiles, like allowing users to pay for their profiles and instead of building an add on or building something, strictly for profile builder, we decided to.
Why not build a membership plugin all together, like, which was already a super crowded space and competitive space. But we wanted to, our take on it was let's build something super simple and intuitive that looks exactly like the, you know, the WordPress interface. Nothing fancy, nothing, and people can use it without, and set it up really quickly.
So that's how paid members would cryption was born. And it's fully competitive with a profile builder. A lot of people use them together, but also paid members situation now is a standalone membership plugin, which powers, I think a round. I think more than 10,000 websites, active websites. Wow. The numbers in WordPress are astonishing.
Aren't like crazy, crazy. And one of the beauties, yeah. Well that's, that's why I suppose we're all here in a way. and then, okay, let, let's, let's change tack them because one of the reasons that, we ended up speaking and getting you on the podcast was, was because of this. Fabulous. Multilingual. I don't know what the right word is, but it's a translation plugin.
I don't know if the word multi-lingual is the exact word to use here, but it's a, it's a plugin which enables you to, let's say for example, like me, you are building a website and it's in English, and you wish to have proportion portions of that site to be translated, for example, into French. That's what translate press does.
Now you're coming into a crowded, crowded arena here. We've got old. Tranche of, of rival plugins that are, you know, been around for many years and probably got lots and lots of, users who are familiar with them. What is it that you felt, made translate press worthy of creating and spending so much time on?
Yeah. And eight 10 you are absolutely right. There are a lot of options, not just for translation, for pretty much everything in the WordPress space nowadays, but our take with translate press was to build something that's, Uniquely like really different and extremely intuitive and easy to use. We wanted to target people who have no coding skills, who have, don't want to learn or read a lot of documentation to be able to set up a multilingual website.
And I think you gave it an excellent description, in one of your tweets. It's basically a page builder for translations. So everything in translate press happens visually. You translate your website directly from the front end using a visual translation interface. You can browse it page by page and pretty much translate everything you see.
Yeah. There's a, if you go to the website, which is, I'm glad that you could get this URL cause it's exactly what you needed. Translate press.com. there's a, there's a video right at the very top of the page and it's about three and a three and a half minutes long. And it's, it's Adrian. explaining and showing how it all works, and that kind of encapsulates what we're going to talk about.
So it may be a good idea if you're near a computer, maybe go on pause, going to translate press.com, watch the video, and then come back and you have much more insight into what we're going to describe it because it's very visual. But, essentially you've got the, it's like a customizer type interface, so it will be familiar for people who use a page builder as well.
There's a. There's a, an admin bar, if you like. Where the work goes on is a, is a bar down the left hand side of the page, and you simply find a, find a bit of text on the page that you would like to translate, click on it and then type the translation and then click publish and you're done. Now. For the life of me.
Can't understand why this hasn't happened so far. It's a, it's a great breakthrough. It makes the whole process ridiculously easy. How difficult was it to create this where there are a lot of, problems that you didn't foresee? Has it been, you know, straightforward, or have you been tearing your hair out trying to make this all work?
it, it definitely wasn't straight forward. And yes, we, there was a, there were some problems we did not foresee, as always. But, I think that the main thing we were trying to solve, there are two pain points with, translation plugins nowadays. One is the compatibility. users always have to make sure, is my team compatible with the translation plugin?
Is my what? What happens if I use a page builder? What happens if I use a short code? How do I translate the R output of a short code? what happens if I set up a WooCommerce store? Can I translate, all my products or details or variations or things like that? And this is a big pain. So we translate press, we wanted to make sure this disappears.
And we work hard to, to make it, out of the box, compatible with any team plugin, page builder. so it doesn't matter how you created your content. What matter is, is that, whatever is displayed on the front end, it's translatable. We, we even took it like a step further. Like let's say you have media, like for example, an image with text.
Which obviously in a different language, you would want to change it with a different image with a translated text. Yeah. So you can do that exactly the same way as you translate a text. You just click on the image, you will, see, an option to upload a different one for a different language and, also translate the alt tag.
And so on. Okay. So intriguingly, you know, the way that WordPress works, the content can be coming from all sorts of different places. You know, it may have been pushed in by a, I don't know, a page builder, for example. It might be coming in from a widget, or it might be a shortcode, or there's just multiple, multiple different ways that that content could have arrived on the page.
But you're saying that's translate press can cope with any of that scenario. So that, I suppose that leads to this slightly technical question. How does it actually work? How is it locating. The portion that needs to be translated and then somehow storing that data away somewhere and making sure that that data is replaced with different data.
Well, the technical details are basically, we're waiting for all the page to load for all the content to load, and then we're adding the translation layer. That's a pretty much it. The details of it are, can be, can get quite complicated. But, in the end, Yeah, because it's pretty tricky to, to work with things like, for example, sliders, which we support.
If there is, I mean, goodness knows somebody's going to think it. If there's image in, if there's text in the image, you're not modifying the image. You're just saying, look, here's a different image for the Spanish page has a different image for the Italian page. Right. And you have to make those yourselves.
Exactly. Somebody somewhere. Created the most miraculous tool that can identify, no, we're not that good yet. So when you, when you are in this page, and you, you're in the sort of like, translate press editing mode, if you like you, you simply find things, you click on them and what have you. and then this, this panel appears on the left hand side, and it says, you know, here's the English translation.
Here's the French translation. Here's the Italian translation. Can you. Can you do an infinite number of translations? Can you just literally stack them on top of one of the other one, one or another? Do you have to have language skills to do this? So for example, in my case, I would be, I suffer greatly, or is this, can this be automated in some way?
Yes, it can. So translate press supports both manual and automatic translations. we're, integral. We have an integration with Google, translate to also Depot. It's a really high quality automated translation service. And basically you can set it, set it all up and have your websites, automatically translated in under a minute.
And then just. I mean instantly, I'm saying under a minute just because it sounds cool, but it is this, this happens instantly, like once you enter them your API key and clicked save changes. Once you navigate the website, the translation basically happens the first time you load the page. Right? And we're also making sure to store this translation in order to increase speed.
And our recommendation is to, once you have your site, automatically translated, like go and manually edit, everything that sounds weird or off or, does it have context? Yeah. And, and how, how do you do that then? is there a way that you can, so let's say for example, that I. go to the web page and it was in English, and I'm now looking at the French version.
Presumably there's some sort of like little flag icon or some little icon that you'd click to translate the page. and then can I go in and just in the way that I described a moment ago, can I go in and, and everything will now be in Italian, so I can just edit those one at a time. I don't have to sort of go back to the beginning and start with the English and then go through the Italian bits one by one.
No, you don't. Yes, you can do that. Okay. So that's, yeah. And how is there a, is there like a cost to be born for the instant translation? So for example, you, you said that it's instantaneous, presumably that those strings of texts are being fired off to some, remarkable engine somewhere, which is then.
Quickly translating them and sending them back again. I'm guessing that's not a free thing, or maybe it is. No, that's, I mean, translating it, it depends on the service you're using. Google has, a limit, I think up to 500,000 characters. It's free. So you, you get a good start up after that. I think you pay $20 per million calories characters or something like that, which is quite enough for a decent sized, website.
however, we're looking to mainstream this process. So. When using a premium version of translate press, we are looking to, I won't do this automatically for you and not make you use a different service, create an API key and have to. Pay some extra costs. So we will probably integrate this in the close future, our case.
So you'll acquire the plugin, somehow license it with you guys, and then you'll take on the burden of, like financing that part of it, if you like. Exactly. Yeah. Well that, I suppose that makes sense. One thing which removes friction from yes, yes. Yeah. Well that's good. But the less, the less that you've got to do yourself the best you're Israeli.
One thing that just suddenly occurred to me is we all spend, well, some of us do, spend quite a bit of time. Making sure that things which are not seen on the page. So for example, all the metadata and the SEO stuff, let's call it that SEO, for want of a better word, that all of that is taken care of. does that also come along for the ride?
Can we, can we change all of that on a page by page basis into our preferred languages as well? Yeah. So in the sidebar, which most, which looks like that, like the visual translation interface looks a little bit like the customizer. We, we wanted to use a very similar look just to, to make people feel comfortable, you know, with it not to create something completely new.
And, We have a string list. So there you can also find all the mater data. You can find. You can easily translate things like slugs or page title or description or so on, all the important SEO elements. so yes, the answer is yes. translate press is, SEO friendly and, you can translate everything, SEO related.
It's also integrated with, we have an SEO pack add on, which basically allows you to go further. Like, Let's say you're using Yoast, you can also translate the focus keywords. You can translate the meta description, you can create a multilingual site maps using the sitemap functionality in Yoast and so on.
we were talking when, when, when I was describing it, I kind of described it as a, as a page builder for, for translations, which seems to fit nicely into, and obviously, you know, page builders very much, of, of the moment, everybody seems to be enjoying them. And. Realizing the benefits of them. I'm just wondering though, and we'll get onto the wider Gothenburg thing in a moment, but, I'm just wondering, whether or not, let's say for example, in my case, when I write a blog post, I'm doing that in the text editor.
So it's not, it's not really a page, it's a post, but I'm doing it all in the text editor and it's paragraph after paragraph after paragraph. Block after block after block and, and so that's, that's kind of divorced from the, the translate press user interface. Do you have ways of, translating in, in the old fashioned, you know, the, the classic editor, if you like, all the, the Guttenberg block editor as well.
Yeah. we didn't look to go too much in that area. I think the, the foretell translate press is the visual translation interface. So basically it gives you context. You know exactly where a string is located. You don't have to assume anything that, and also, This makes it really easy for, for people just not very familiar with different areas of WordPress to say to say this.
Yeah, that's a really good point actually, because, maybe the job of translating is going to be handed over to somebody else and the, you know, they might have zero skills with using a CMS or WordPress WordPress in this case. And so the ability to just point, click, edit. Exactly, exactly. So we have a feature, for example, translator accounts where you can easily create a user and just sign them him as a translation term without giving him admin rights to their website and so on.
And he basically logs in and then, in the front end, he could, help you translate all your website without giving him any access to, to the backend, to the WordPress dashboard. I think this is really handy now, to answer your question, we also have things like four codes. For example, if you want to translate certain beats or I don't know, have a different type of text in a different language.
We have a thing called a conditional short code based, based on language which you can use inside the block editor or inside the text editor. So on. so you start to conditionally display different elements or texts. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. does the, does the, the plugin offer the, the sort of feature for kind of like geo locating you?
So let's say for example, I picked up my computer and went on holiday to Italy. Lucky me and, and I switched on, you know, translate press, configured site, does it, does it know about that? And can I, can I supply the Italian automatically or do I have to go through the process of sort of picking my language manually.
No, I mean, it does. We have a, we have an add on for that. It's called automatic user language detection. And you basically just in activated and it's all, and that's it. Yeah. It will take care of this. It will, redirect you to the language. You speak based on IP or browser language. Okay. And it has a really smart load.
Logic became it. Okay. And, okay. So I can see that you've got a very comprehensive free version with. It's a whole raft of things in it. Some notable things which I think might interest people are, that you can translate the sort of entire page in this page builder, format it supports, will commerce, which might be of great interest to a lot of you.
There's a whole ton in the free version. Presumably that's on the WordPress repository. Is it. Yes, it's on a WordPress repository. So you can go search for that. But you've also got a set, like a premium tier, and you've got these advanced ad-ons and pro ad-ons and so on. So maybe if we just get into the pricing and what those different, different pricing models enable you to do.
So I'll just quickly run by what the, what the tiers are. So we've got, got personal. Which is 79 euros. It's all priced in euros. That's for at one site you've got business, which is 139, which is for three sites, and you've got developer, which is one nine, nine for unlimited sites. but there's sort of different configurations.
So do you want to just run through what you will get with those different tiers and, and what some of those different add ons will enable you to do. Yes, absolutely. So, the free version, you can use it to translate, everything on your website. It's, it works out of the box with any team plugins, WooCommerce page builders.
the only limitation is that, it's limited to two, translation languages. So if you want more than that, the personal version of translate press has, If you want to add title five translation languages or basically an unlimited number, you, you find that in, Personally, the premium versions.
we also have the STL pack we discussed about, which has integrations with, SEO plugins. So allowing you to translate things like, page titles, slug, slug translations, and so on, like, Yoast SEO sitemaps support. And then some really cool ad-ons are found in the other versions. You have navigation based on language.
You can customize your menu, for example, to have different menu structures based on the language that the user browses. You have, automatic user language detection. You have translator accounts if you want to allow existing. Users to translate, you know, your site or hire a professional translator to translate your site without giving him admin rights and, things like, deeper support for automatic translation.
All these are found in the. Business specs. Okay. So there's absolutely tons. There's loads and loads of nice, additions. So there's one which has caught my eye as well, the browse as a, as a user role. So you can actually look at how it would say you, you can, you can change it based upon the role of the person logged in.
Can you as well. Exactly. Let's say you have some restricted content, or you have a form that's available or only for a certain user role, in order to translate it. Or you have two seats, so you can easily use this browse is used to display absolutely everything that's visible to that certain user world.
Yeah. Yeah. so the, the user interfaces is absolutely fantastic. I really like it and no doubt this is becoming more and more popular over time. you know, it have, how, how is it going, you know, is it justifying itself in terms of a business? At the minute. Yes, it's, it's growing nicely. It, currently powers, more than 50,000 websites.
if you [email protected], I think in the last year it, it went like from 20,000 to 50,000. And, I know, I see more and more people noticing it, using it, saying, They simply get it. You know, it doesn't need a lot of, introduction or description to on how to use it. Once you install it and click translate site, you're instantly understand how easy it is to modify and translate to certain pieces.
Yeah. In a sense, the, the fact that you were later to the market than, than some of the other plugins, kind of afforded you a certain benefit in that you, you got the, you got in after the sort of visual point click page builder interface was. It was a thing. and so I think in, in that sense, the fact that you built it after that has become quite a normal procedure, building pages with point, click, drag type, what have you.
we've been able to do that, which is nice. Yes. Yes. I mean, I think that if you want to build something in, it's to be, or either different or better or both. Otherwise, the, the competition being so fierce in, Appears in the WordPress plugging space or product page, it's really hard to get noticed and get people to use your product.
I'm not saying translate press, it's super popular, but I think it has a lot of potential and more and more people are using it and it has a really nice, it had a really nice growth. So we are very comfortable with, the perspectives. One of the things that I like to ask, is about support and what have you, because that's one of the things that people, you know, they find interesting once they've bought a product.
Do you, do you offer kind of support via chat or are you all via email or do you have a, like an area where you can log in and submit support tickets and what have you? Yeah, we, we offer email support, chat support. We found this too, to work with our, I know, our style of work and also maybe write more details and detailed and helpful answers.
Yeah. So we prefer this, like to offer all the premium versions are come with a priority in premium support. However, we will, and. Do visit the wordpress.org forums and answer there as well. So we're not, completely ignored those people who have, may bump into certain issues. Are there any areas, probably a difficult question for you to answer because nobody likes to admit that some things don't work, but are there any kind of problems that you've run into, where it would, you know, translate press, it found it insurmountable.
It was unable to do the translation, you know, quirky themes that misbehaved or some bizarre, I don't know, collection of plugins that meant that it just failed. Yeah. No, I have no problem answering this question. so for example, if you have completely different type of content for each language. Then, I, probably translate press is not the best solution for you.
You should look more into setting up a multisite or going with plugins like multilingual press for example. If you want to set, for example, a WooCommerce store, which has completely different pages and products in different languages, which, which is basically a different website in a different language, if you know what I mean.
Then papers is not, is not the right plugin for you. Okay. I think, I'm sorry, I interrupted. No worries. No, that's pretty much it. We are, I mean, there are some conflicts, with, I know certain teams mostly because they do not follow, you know, WordPress standards, but we're trying to fix and, everything in order to have full compatibility with everything.
This is a, a big thing. We. embarked on and try to offer just working out of the box with any team or plugging. That's a huge statement. And to back it up. And you have to, to work a lot on, you know, the things you mentioned before. It doesn't work with a certain team, which is not popular, but, you know.
So then you have to think to have a more general approach to it. Not a fixed that specific issue, but like thinking a more in a bigger way on how can you prevent this from happening from happening in the future. Mm. And that's, that. That can be pretty challenging at times. Speaking of the future, that was a nice segue.
speaking of the future, if you, if you've been paying close attention to, I don't mean you, I'm directing this at our listeners now. If you've been paying close attention to, The, the, the roadmap for the block editor, otherwise known as Guttenberg, then it's going to be sort of rolling out in four different stages.
And we're kind of onto the second stage now, which is kind of customization of the sites. So, for example, headers and footers, that kind of thing. And, one of the stages in the future, several years away by all accounts and certainly not being undertaken at all at the moment. Is native, integration with, with multilingual capabilities.
Now just this, does this bother you? Are you troubled? Are you thinking this is going to cause you problems or are you more looking forward to it and seeing where translate press can fit into that ecosystem? Yes. In a sense, I am looking forward to it because I think it's a good thing for WordPress users and, I'm really eager to find out more.
I know this is just, an idea now. It, it's not materialized into anything. There are some concepts are going around, but, I think there will always be a way that you can make your user's life easier. So I'm just a. And Gutenberg, and also be seen, you know, as a, as a threat into page builders for example.
But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. It probably will at some point, but I think, they will adapt as well. So I'm not, I don't think, and all of this is in the benefit of the end user, which is, which is great. Yes. Yeah. Another example I would give was would be with custom fields, like when native custom fields support was added in WordPress, I think super popular plugin, advanced custom fields, you know, people were concerned what would happen?
Would it disappear? And a thing, this was many years ago and now I transgressed the field is still more powerful than ever. So, I don't know. I'm not very concerned with this. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how this turns out and maybe we can contribute to it. So this is, something I would love to give you.
Yeah. It's interesting that the world and WordPress in particular has a, has a sort of habit of delivering unexpected things. And it may be that this is an app, you know? Absolutely. The best thing that ever happened for translate press primarily, you know, just the fact that it's on everybody's radar for a start.
You know, there's multi-lingual features, Oh, I should be making use of those. And then they may very well discover yourself. And you know, some rivals. along the way. So, yeah, absolutely fascinating product. I will just quickly mentioned the, the URL once more. It's translate press.com before we go, Adrian, I've got, I've got an interesting question to ask you because I share the show notes with, with our guests and they write things in.
I'm fascinated by something that you wrote and it's got nothing to do with translations, but it's got to do with work life balance because in there, in the. Show notes you wrote about the fact that you, you've made a decision as a company to just work for four days in each week. How's that going? Well, to, to put it simple, it all started like six years ago and we never looked back.
So I guess it's, it was a good decision. it has its challenges, but it allows us to. To get more like press, to spend more time with our families to have a really, really sane balance. I like work life balance, and I think it was one of the best decisions we took. our employees, our colleagues brag, you know, around, you know, I'm not working Friday, so this is also a good selling point for you as a company.
And, the extra day give you more time to, to rest. And, I don't think about things as a cofounder. For me, it's super useful, like Friday, either, you know, spend times with my family or. half time to think, we're so drawn into the day to day activities that, setting aside time to just think or do nothing is, is gone.
It's something no one does anymore. We all should. It's really commendable. I think it's such a fabulous idea. I wish, I wish I could get myself around to that way of thinking. I just saw it and it just just stood out on the page. I just thought, that's lovely. What you could do as an experiment is just try it, you know?
And then Friday, a little bit earlier, like around noon. See how that goes. Yeah. Cool. Okay. I'm going to do it. I'm going to give it a try. I'll, I'll, I'll let you know. please do that. Thank you for having us on. Now, we haven't really discussed this too much in detail, but Adrian was mentioning the fact that, around the, the release of the podcast, we may very well put a, Like a deal or a giveaway or something along those lines out. So, so keep your ears peeled for that. But yeah. Adrian thank you very much for coming on the podcast today and telling us about translate press. Thank you again. And they turn to naming was perfect again. Thanks a lot. I had a great time.
Thank you. Well, I hope that you enjoyed that. It was certainly fascinating. Chatting to Adrian about the translate press plugin looks really interesting. You can get a whole lot more information about it by going to the translate press website, click on the link in the show notes, and it'll take you right there.
You'll be able to see just how easy it is and how you can get yourself onto the premium tier. If that takes your fancy. The WP Bill's podcast was brought to you today by AB split test or wants to set up your AB split test in record time, the new AB split test plugin for WordPress. We'll have you up and running in a couple of minutes.
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Maybe you'll join us next week. We'll have a podcast next Thursday is likely to be a debate between David Walmsley and I, because that's the way we do it. A week of an interview and then a week of David and I debating, so join us for that also. What about Monday? Join us on Monday for the weekly WordPress news and the live that I mentioned at the top of the show.
You can find those each and every week at WP Bill's dot com forward slash live 2:00 PM UK time. I hope that you have a very safe week and I will fade in some cheesy music and say, bye bye for now.