This Week in WordPress #355

[00:00:03] Nathan Wrigley: It is time for This Week in WordPress, episode number 355 entitled I Forgot to Wave.

It was recorded on Monday, the 17th of November, 2025. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and today I am joined by Michelle Frechette and by Rhys Wynne.

It's a WordPress podcast, but we do spend quite a lot of time talking about the Kagi search engine. Rhys brings a few interesting bits and pieces that they are putting together. And we spend probably a good, I don't know, third of the episode talking about that. Is really interesting.

And then we talk about Michelle and her hunt for work. You can find out all about that in the episode.

And then we get onto the WordPressy bits and pieces.

6.9 is just around the corner. There is a whole ton of content related to all that is dropping in 6.9. So we touch on collaborative editing, so that's phase three. We talk about AI. We talk about WordPress ViP, and their efforts to get collaborative editing working.

We also spend a little bit of time talking about sponsorship and the global partnership program.

And then quite a bit on Telex, and how Telex might shake up the WordPress plugin ecosystem or block ecosystem in the near future. Is it a good idea, or as many in the audience think, do they think it's a bit of a security nightmare?

There's a whole load more. And it's all coming up next on This Week in WordPress.

This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of manage WordPress hosting that includes free domain, SSL, and 24 7 support. Bundle that with the hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients and get 30% of new purchases. Find out more at go.me/wpuilds.

Hello, hello, Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Wherever you are in the world. It's episode number 3, 5 5 of this week in WordPress is quite a lot. And, actually quite a milestone. I hadn't even realized it until somebody tweeted me. We, on the podcast side of things, we passed episode number 444, which is not really a thing, but it's all the fours.

It's quite nice. so between this and that, that's. Quite a lot actually. So there you go. That's my fact for the week. episode number 355, as you can see, I'm, if that's the question. Oh, go. Is episode 4 0 4 able to be found? No, that's never possible. That's can't be, planned. I actually did try that once.

I think it was with the, yeah, I think I did. Oh, no, I know what it was. By pure coincidence, episode 404 was related to like search and things like that. And so it was, yeah, it was pretty cool. Perfect. Yeah, it was pretty perfect actually. And it wasn't by design. Sometimes serendipity is cool. So you could see that this.

Two guests today. firstly, we were supposed to be joined by Tim Nash. I think some of the tweets that I sent out were to say that Tim Nash would be joining us. unfortunately this morning he, messaged me to say that he wasn't able to make it. So I hope that all is well, Tim, with you and yours. But, hopefully we'll have Tim back.

However, two extra guess is a nice number. I think sometimes that makes the conversation work in different ways. But we can see down here we have, Michelle, she, hello. How are you doing? Hello. I'm good, thank you. Nice to have you with us once more. So I'm gonna read Michelle's little bio out here. So Michel, oh, it's been strip slips.

Easy for me to say. Has it been stripped down? Did I strip that down accidentally or is it, I have no idea. Yeah. Okay. I'll read what we got. Michelle Fette is the Executive Director of Post Status. In addition to the work over there, Michelle is the podcast barista at WP Coffee Talk. Co-founder of Underrepresented in Tech, creator of WP Speakers, WP Career Pages, sponsor me wp, which she co-founded, along with Speed Network Online.

She is also an author, influencer, frequent organizer, and speaker at WordPress, and tech events. She lives outside of Rochester, New York, where she's an avid nature photographer. And if you want to learn more. The one handy URL is Meet michelle.online? No, it's the fact that it's in a Google doc and the font is smaller.

It just looks like, it, looks like it looks less. Yeah, it definitely looks less, but but it's not. So there we go. There's Michelle. Thank you for joining us. And, I want, so I think today's episode should be 4 0 4. Tim not found. Oh, Tim is, oh. Oh, okay. yeah, tachos jumping in there. He says, I missed 4 0 4.

Couldn't find it. Yeah, it's a joke. Only nerdy people, know. Speaking of nerdy people, look, there's Rhys. How you doing Rhys? How's it going? I'm, good. I was just about to say, I was trying to, I was trying to think of all the HT TP, sentences. I was like, if you're four 18, does that make you a tea?

I, once knew what all of those were, but those days have long gone. I dunno what any of them are now, apart from 4 0 4. But, Rhys has joined us. I think probably this is like the fourth or third time or something like that. Only the second. Is it only? Is it? Oh, it feels like so much more. Yeah. But I know what it is.

I know what it is. Rhys, because we met in person and spent a little bit of time not that long ago when we, when we were both in London, we spent quite a bit of time together in the pub, sat next to each other having breakfast. That will be what it is. Anyway, Rhys, I'll read the bio. Rhys Wynn is a Welsh freelance WordPress developer living in a small village in the northwest of England.

He co organizes the Manchester WordPress user group writes WordPress plugins and is the occasional speaker. His work tends to focus on performance, SEO and general backend WordPress and WooCommerce development for small and medium sized businesses and charities. He's also passionate about decentralized web and yearns to return to the days where everybody maintained their own blog.

Oh. Me too. Yeah. especially if those blogs were WordPress sites,

[00:06:14] Rhys Wynne: I've noticed.

[00:06:15] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, have you? Yes. Yes. Oh yeah.

[00:06:17] Michelle Frechette: Same. I've decided

[00:06:18] Nathan Wrigley: to write again

[00:06:19] Michelle Frechette: Prolifically blog. It's, yeah.

[00:06:23] Nathan Wrigley: anyway, I'm, finish your bio first. Hold on. you can find his WordPress services newsletter and plugin at, okay, I'm gonna have to spell it.

D-W-I-N-R-H-Y-S. So dw re.com. Yes. But, I've read it into the record now. and it rhymes with Tween and Rhys. Okay. So what is that? Dwe Rhys. Oh, okay. Oh, I feel bad now. It's all

[00:06:46] Rhys Wynne: right.

[00:06:46] Nathan Wrigley: And rhymes with police. Got it. or find less focus ramblings and link to whatever social profiles are popular at Rhys.

Wales. That's a good one. Rhys Wales. That's a good viewer. I was so pleased when I got that. Yeah, I'll keep holding that one. Yeah. Yeah. I managed to get the Nathan wrigley.com one and that's where I've started writing again. I dunno what happened. I woke up one morning about, I don't know, a few weeks ago and thought, really, why am I not using it?

'cause I absolutely love writing and I'm a bit of an insomniac at the minute and, I've got this period in the morning when I wake up and usually I just sit and consume buckets of coffee and I'm like, and and so now I've just started tapping random musings out on my, keyboard and I'm actually really enjoying it.

I don't suppose many people are reading it.

[00:07:33] Rhys Wynne: Are you? Is could it be after Luko maybe. 'cause I think I had a bit of a realization 'cause I, yeah. If you look at my post Luko and after Luko on Restock Wales, yeah. It's just. Night and day.

[00:07:49] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. It's interesting as well because I've, come, Michelle maybe, 'cause you've got loads of different properties all over the place.

I've come to the realization that almost nobody uses WordPress commenting on any commenting anymore. there's a few posts that I've written where one or one or maybe two people have written a comment, but the commentary largely happens, over on the other places, doesn't it? On the blue sky and the, Twitter or X or whatever it may be.

And and that kind of really bores me up a little bit, when I get, when I post something and then somebody replies and I'm not writing anything controversial, weird. But I'm with you Rhys. I'm totally with you. It's nice to have that. That being in my life back. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So the housekeeping rules are as follows, if you are joining us live, that's fabulous. Thank you so much. I know that lots of you are not, so just fast forward 30 seconds. So if you are joining us live and you want to comment, there's a variety of different options depending on where you are viewing it.

they will potentially show up in our platform. Lots of the platforms these days they're gatekeeping this kind of stuff. So for example, YouTube comments get through to us. But things like Facebook and Twitter, they do not. So if you comment over there, we just don't see it. So the best advice is to go to this URL.

So if you're watching it on some other platform, just maybe stop what you're doing and just go here. Wp builds.com/live. you'll be able to play it in much the same way as anywhere else, but over on the right is the YouTube comments embedded. So you can just start scribbling in there. But if you know you don't have a Google account, we've got you covered as well.

There's a little black box inside the actual video player. So top it says live chat. click on that and then you don't need to be logged into anything whatsoever. You can make your comments and we'll definitely get those. So wp build.com/live. And thank you to the few of you that have said hello and whatnot.

It's really nice when that happens. so Courtney Robertson is saying Good morning, Dave Gray, who's on the show, quite a little bit episode.

[00:09:55] Rhys Wynne: Yeah, that's

[00:09:56] Nathan Wrigley: that. I dunno what, I'm gonna do at that point. Episode 6, 6, 6 is when it gets real. That's right. Maybe I'll just avoid that one. There are certain things apparently the Chinese don't do.

There are certain things which, like at a government level, there are numbers which they don't do things with 'cause they're just.

[00:10:14] Rhys Wynne: Eight is apparently the number eight. Yeah. I want, yeah. I dunno why, but yeah, red is good luck. Eight is bad luck. I think Do, not quote me on that, but if I'm, yeah,

[00:10:22] Nathan Wrigley: because, eight's such a small one, you're gonna miss that out.

There's so many things where you get to do eight. Yeah. 666 is a little bit less.

[00:10:31] Michelle Frechette: I hope it coincides with Halloween. That would be like brilliant if it did.

[00:10:35] Rhys Wynne: Okay. Yeah, I reckon. I reckon if you started now. By episode 666, you'll be able to interview Brian. Yeah. Yeah. Brian Dickinson from

[00:10:43] Nathan Wrigley: Iron Maiden. That's right.

Okay. Alright, we got it. We got it dialed in. Teo says I can't wait for episode number 4, 5, 1 until it gets removed. Okay. He's being clever there, I'm guessing. Yes. Is that an error code? 4 5 1? It's been removed. I dunno whether off top. Keep it coming. Tacho, that's too clever. Elliot just down the road from me and Bri.

Hi. how you doing? Elliot? Nice to have you with us. he says he's always so proud when my post gets comments. Can I just ask, how did you get that letter o on the word? So it's got some kind of gr french accent on it. I dunno how you manage that, but Me too. It's the best feeling in the world, isn't it?

It's like a little slice of birthday cake when you, get the email

[00:11:27] Rhys Wynne: saying your post has received a new comment or a comment in moderation. He is just oh. Oh, Somebody has just sp time and read what I've done

[00:11:36] Nathan Wrigley: and until you go in and realize it's complete spam. Oh yeah. And then you've got, and then you've got to delete it.

Yeah. we'll get to a plugin in a minute. towards the end, which hopes to deal with that and what have you. It's

[00:11:47] Michelle Frechette: option, E, and then followed by the letter, we'll give you the accent over it.

[00:11:52] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Alright. I do see, look, the, hive mind. It's brilliant. it's spell the word

[00:11:56] Michelle Frechette: resume all the time so I know.

Okay. Yes.

[00:11:59] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So you have to add that on the end. Tcho says maybe that's because it's rare indeed. Oh, I see the full 5, 5 1 thing. Yeah. James says, good morning. Number 13 isn't a band, num isn't a bad number in Chinese culture. Okay. So that's a weird one for us, isn't it?

Unlucky, 13 kind of thing. Yeah. That's pretty low as well thinking about it.

[00:12:17] Rhys Wynne: Yeah.

[00:12:18] Nathan Wrigley: and then we're joined by Janet. Janet, sorry for butchering your name. Janet never had you on before. I don't think. Hello guys. Good day. Nice to have you with us and then we got this weird thing. Okay. Okay. See, I think it's gonna

[00:12:31] Michelle Frechette: depend on whether you're on a Mac or a pc.

Probably. Yeah, I

[00:12:34] Nathan Wrigley: What's

[00:12:35] Rhys Wynne: gr? It's a Mac key, but what is it? Which one does it Mac? It's like your, hang on, I need to have a look at my back.

[00:12:41] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I've never heard of the, does he mean control? No, I have a Mac

[00:12:46] Michelle Frechette: and I do Alt E or option E, so I dunno. Okay.

[00:12:49] Nathan Wrigley: We've totally got bogged down on the letter O. I dunno what GR is, Dave.

So if you can let us know, how did I get the o I've got this plank in front of me with a lot of Bos plank.

[00:13:00] Rhys Wynne: It's

[00:13:00] Nathan Wrigley: otherwise I, think.

[00:13:03] Rhys Wynne: Without, wanting to put words in. I have one too, without wanting to put words in TA's mouth, I think he just mistyped it.

[00:13:10] Nathan Wrigley: Ah, you do too. Go with that. and then James.

Okay, James, this is interesting. So it gets truncated, so I'll just read the rest of it off. he says number eight is considered a good number, not because of where it is in the numerical chart, but when pronounced in Cantonese and Mandarin. It sounds like the word wealth or money, which is a really, ah, and then he goes on to say, which is a happy coincidence.

Oh, that's fascinating.

[00:13:36] Rhys Wynne: I stand, corrected

[00:13:36] Nathan Wrigley: there. Yeah. Yeah, that's okay. I meanly. I didn't know either. Yeah. and then Friendly web do Dave Gray said it's the alt on the right side of the space bar. Okay. That's the Archy. Is it? Mine just looks the same as the alt on the other side of the keyboard, so that's weird that it's got its whole own thing.

Okay. At some point we're gonna have to get to the show, but the comments are coming in, so let's keep going. tacho says he's on a Mac holding the. EGO key, I guess EEG correct means example. Example, yeah. Okay. It's not like there's a key called the E key. Oh, okay. It will give you a little pop after which you can select what decoration one.

Okay. Oh, there you go. Thank you. Yeah, there you go. I just learned

[00:14:15] Michelle Frechette: something too.

[00:14:16] Nathan Wrigley: And James says number four is actually bad in Chinese culture because when it's pronounced in Cantonese, it sounds like the word dead or end, which is an unhappy coincidence I guess. There we go. Oh gosh. There we go. Thank you James.

Don't tell me that you don't learn something Every time, every time you watch this show, but you can tell me it's of no use whatsoever. But there we go. That's trivia. That's what we got. Trivia for you. I like trivia. Yeah, indeed. That was good. Little trivia. okay, let's get to the bits and pieces of our show.

This is us wp builds.com. If you fancy keeping up to date with what we do, stick your email into here and you will join many thousands of other people who receive an email twice a week. I get one on a Tuesday. We package this show up. So put, put a header on it and a footer on it, if you like, an audio form, and then repurpose it and stick it out on a Tuesday morning.

That'll come tomorrow. But then we also do our podcast and that comes out on a Thursday. You'll get an email about that. This is it. I had a chat this week with, oh. Oh, what a load of fun. Nick Hamey, Nick Hamey has the best. Rhys, I and Michelle. do you know what hams, Hamley, do you know what Nick does for a living?

Do either of

[00:15:32] Rhys Wynne: No.

[00:15:33] Nathan Wrigley: No. Okay, good. No, that's perfect. Guess. Just have a, just go for the most random possible thing and guess that, and it won't be as random as it is. He's a professional wrestler. No, it's more weird. He's, opened up, he sells like his entire life is selling Pokemon cards.

He's got a Pokemon dealership. and he, I thought Rhys might have a few sides. I have. I have, a saw that, he started it a few, like not that many months ago with his brother, and it is turned out to be, it's going gangbusters. Wow. and so he's doing that, but on the, side, what he's doing is creating a load of WordPress content and blocks and having a right old time with ai.

And his entire purpose is to just have a laugh with it. And it's such an interesting difference because for the, with the best will in the world, WordPress can get a bit stuck in the mud. It can be because we're, it's what we do for a living. We can beat all serious about it. it's not what Nick does for a living, and Nick just wants to have a bit of a riot.

And you can hear it in his voice, you can hear it in the way he speaks. And it's just a really fun episode. So go check it out. It's 4, 4, 5. you can go and check that out on our website. And then the last thing I want to mention is that we have our Black Friday deals page. I think at the moment we've got about 680 something, not 600.

That's a complete lie. Sorry, 6 66. Yeah. Two, yeah, that's right. 280. We've got about 280 deals on that page, so absolutely loads. it looks like a wall of deals at the moment, but the idea really is that you hit this yellow button and then you drill down. I don't know, I might type in something like SEO or something like that, and then hopefully that would filter down to something slightly more relevant, and then you can reset the filter and begin again and what have you and all of the, All of the deals, they're shown what the percentage offers. So you've got some kind of idea as to whether or not it might be for you. But by the end of the next week or two, there'll probably be about 400 on there. There typically is, it's at wp builds.com/black if you want to bookmark that.

And, I don't use affiliate links or anything, there's no sort of there's no one that I want to promote it over the others except this little bit at the top in order to make this thing pay for itself. I have these little sponsorship cards. I've got WS form, I've got a couple coming, in the next few days.

So if you want your. Product or service to go onto there. You can click these little get started links and, in exchange for some US dollars, I will, I will put you onto that page, like Ws form of Dom. Woo-hoo. Thank you, mark. West Guard. So that's wp builds.com/black. Last bit of self promotion. I chatted to Roger Williams this week.

it wasn't this week. I recorded him a little while ago. and this is over on the WP Tavern podcast, and he's talking about sponsoring, in the WordPress space, but a different kind of sponsoring, sponsoring people to do word pressy, things like write code and manage events and all of that kind of stuff.

And trying to help wrangle that over at Kin Stern, because he is doing it at Kinter. He is come up with a few intuitions, which he thinks are worth sharing. And so wp tavern.com and search for episode 1 9 3, if you can see that. Okay, that's all my promotion bits. The next few bits then are coming, directly from Rhys's keyboard.

So we've got three bits that Rhys wanted to share with us this week. The first one. Now I dunno if that page looks the same every time you click it. The link it. No. So if I refresh it, do we get something slightly different? Let's have a look. Yes, we do. What is this?

[00:19:08] Rhys Wynne: What the heck are we looking at? So last time I was on, I think I mentioned Cloud hiker, which is basically like a stumble upon replacement.

Yeah. in my quest to find replacements for the greatest website that's ever existed, which is stumble upon, I found this, and it actually is from you, Nathan, because you mentioned CGI a few weeks back on this podcast. Yeah, I checked it out and I was like, oh, this is good. And spoiler nerd, there's another CGI link coming on up a little bit later on, but this is, yeah.

So this is a small web randomized, so the way it is. Is anytime you visit it, you will get a blog post. And the blog post, the way in which it works, is that you have to submit your blog to it. And any, if you have posted within the last week, it will be, it can be shown randomly. Nice. So I have been, I my blog's on this.

and it does send a few people to it. Does it really? Gosh, yeah. Like about, not two or three a day. Literally not huge numbers, but two or three a day, just randomly. What's quite nice about it is a submission process in that you can submit yourself, but you have to submit three other people

[00:20:36] Nathan Wrigley: to it.

Oh, that's cool.

[00:20:38] Rhys Wynne: Yeah. So it won't allow you to submit your own blog, but. You will have to submit, two others. oh, that's great. What a neat idea. It's a way to just build it up. And this has replaced my doom scrolling to a degree. So I'm not, I reduce the amount of time that I've spent on like Reddit and Facebook and social media, and I'm spending it on this.

And whilst the blogs, it varies, I'm not saying that every single blog is hit or miss, but like the first one I got was how the new Ryanair. airline digital passes work. And I was like, this is fascinating. I never knew it was fascinating, but I am all in. And there was like 3000 words on it. I also discovered a blog that was, which is interested in, I'm really into video games that it had all Super Mario, like the Norwegian sticker book from 1992 all printed out.

And it's just, different and it's calming and it's nice and it's, it reduces my blood pressure and a lot of it, isn't great.

[00:22:01] Nathan Wrigley: it's not the content that you would necessarily go search for, but you just click the refresh button Yeah. Like this one

[00:22:06] Rhys Wynne: is just can I make the drinks from the movie cocktail?

It's just too random. It's just random. Yeah. And it's just great. And it just, it's, not. It's quite calming and it's, I,

[00:22:21] Nathan Wrigley: wonder if the, I wonder if the algorithm behind it is entirely, using the RAND function or something like that, so it really is random, or I wonder if it, I wonder if they, they have some intuitions as to what's, gets you clicked, I'm guessing, knowing what I know about this new-ish company cgi.

yeah. I think it will be totally random. I, the, everything about them screams not trying to game your conscience. Yeah. sorry. Your consciousness, not trying to game you with an algorithm. Yeah. So I'm gonna guess that it's entirely random. What's really interesting is when you look at them, have you seen how many are WordPress?

Yes. You can just see the, you can see the themes from days gone by, can't you? Yeah. Yeah. I dunno if that one is, that one's not screaming WordPress, but most of them are. Yeah. And so you can find this at cgi, so it's k aga.com/small web.

[00:23:18] Rhys Wynne: Yes.

[00:23:19] Nathan Wrigley: And, go there and click the recycle button, or you can just click the, the new post button and you get something different.

Oh. And you can flag, you can say that some things are, you wanna see videos or comics or, yeah, maybe. And there's a contribute button as well. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's interesting. all right. cgi.com/small web. Now the next thing that Rhys sent me was this. Oh, this, oh. This makes me quite annoyed actually.

Yes. So I'm gonna calm down and let you explain.

[00:23:50] Rhys Wynne: Okay. to try and explain it as best as I can, and it won't be as good as if Tim was here, he could explain it far more better. But FFM Pug is a long time open source project that its goal is to be able to read every single video that has ever been put out, no matter what it was originally on, and.

It's one of those projects a bit like Curl and a bit like, they talk about Lib XML that's used in everything. they think that it's probably in YouTube, I think is probably, they think it's probably in things like Amazon Prime, which are the two main proponents of why they are angry. FF Mpec also has quite a vocal, social media presence.

I will leave it to that. Okay. They are very, opinionated in their views and how things should work. Now, what has happened has been Google runs, its own, systems. I, forget what it's got a big sleep. I think

[00:24:56] Nathan Wrigley: it's like big. It's

[00:24:57] Rhys Wynne: like

[00:24:57] Nathan Wrigley: bug bounty

[00:24:58] Rhys Wynne: program isn't bug bounty programs. Yeah. And things like that because they're Google.

They also have their insecurity researchers and they use a lot of ai. What has happened has been. The open source contributors behind FFMP are getting to the point where it's going, we are overwhelmed with the amount of security holes you are finding in our system. Now if these are genuine security holes, then yeah, they should.

they, probably should get fixed. The problem is some of them aren't that big. So the one that they highlight in this blog post was that Google through AI and a couple of security researchers, who they, I assume they pay, I don't know, managed to find, flagged something as a medium security risk.

And this is where I came in, is that the issue was in a video game from 1995, for the pc, which meant that the first 10, frames. An FMV within the game, like a video within the game don't, doesn't run properly. So it's just, and, Google said this is a medium security risk. We need to get this fixed

[00:26:18] Nathan Wrigley: because the number of people who are playing that game, rendering the first 10 frames of that 1995 video game is zero and has been for at least two decades.

[00:26:31] Rhys Wynne: I'd, I wouldn't put zero 'cause it is a Star Wars rebel assault game and it's pretty good. Oh, okay. I get that. it's probably, it's not a lot though. It's probably in the tents. Yeah. at the absolute most, and there are two ways to look at this in the FFMP could turn around and go in the FM MPEG side is going, look, you're a billion dollar company, fund us, otherwise we're just going to ignore every single security.

or, a lot of these security bugs and the other half is going well. You need to fix this. I don't know. I probably on the side of fff m pg on this especially because YouTube uses FM peg, so Google make money off this and doesn't really support it or support it in just a way, in a way that's quite, hard to follow.

Like you support it on their terms rather than just go, here's a bunch of money, do something with it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, ridiculous. And I think that they talk about this Nick Wellen Hoffer as well, who've, who looked after Lib XML two, who just turned around and says, I'm not doing this anymore. Find somebody

[00:27:49] Nathan Wrigley: else.

Yeah. This is the problem. so f fm, peg, it really is embedded in so much stuff. Yeah. just the things like VLC player and a bunch of other stuff. Yeah. And it wouldn't surprise me if YouTube as it's, rendering, so you upload some random video format, from wherever the heck you are on the internet.

[00:28:08] Rhys Wynne: Yeah.

[00:28:08] Nathan Wrigley: And it'll make it so that you can see it. It wouldn't surprise me if that's just f fm peg sitting in the background doing stuff. Yeah. and, obviously now that AI is around and Google can, probe the software a thousand times a minute and discover some crazy unhuman discoverable, CVE score. Give it like a medium or what have you. It, does seem a little bit childish. Yeah. To go demanding of FFM peg, obviously, I get it from their point of view. If you just look at it entirely logically, it makes sense. They're doing a good thing. They're discovering vulnerabilities and they're disclosing them responsibly.

The problem is you can't deluge and they call it here, they call it CVE Slop. Yes. it's just like this tidal wave, this tsunami of problems coming your way. And you can't deal with them quickly enough unless you just stop working on the project. But what they're trying to say in this article is, we're just a bunch of volunteers.

If you keep feeding us these problems at the rate that you are giving them to us, that's gonna grind the project into the ground. So I, dunno what you do in the era of AI where this stuff is now possible, it does seem put the brakes on or do it on the quiet. I don't know. Or just give them a bu bunch of money.

[00:29:26] Rhys Wynne: Yeah. one of the solutions which was raised literally in the paragraph after

[00:29:30] Nathan Wrigley: the,

[00:29:31] Rhys Wynne: is like saying if Google finds it, Google can patch you. Yeah, that's an interesting

[00:29:36] Nathan Wrigley: idea. Wow. And I think that would

[00:29:38] Rhys Wynne: probably solve a lot of the problems. But again, does that kind of knock on another problem?

Because it's not just a case of patching it and here is the code that probably needs to be reviewed by somebody else. It's so

[00:29:50] Nathan Wrigley: interesting 'cause of the size of a project like that, it's just deployed absolutely all over the place and it's such an invisible thing. if you're watching, let's say It is on Amazon Prime or whatever, their video streaming service, if they're using it, you're never gonna know that.

You're never gonna know this. it's

[00:30:05] Rhys Wynne: probably, it's, let's be honest, it's probably in the video recording for this podcast.

[00:30:09] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, I would very much assume it is. I would imagine that's exactly what's going on. Because it's free, right? It's, free open source software. You, can put it on your server and what have you.

So it's a really new and interesting problem and, map this in the near future to a thousand other similar sized projects. Yeah. Which is just run by volunteers who are propping up the internet. And I don't know what we do with that. yeah. Interesting.

[00:30:33] Michelle Frechette: Is it really a new problem though? If you think about the past, like think about the plugin repo, right?

Yeah. And when we had a backlog of 800 plugins and they're working through them as, as quickly and efficiently as they can also with all volunteers, I think it's a, challenge for open source. Yeah. and it just gets stickier when it's a security issue as opposed to just a backlog of, new innovation.

[00:30:57] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Wow. That's a really interesting one. Okay. So I think I, I don't know how everybody will fall down on this one, but, it's a free project. if there was a, if there was a, I don't know, a SLA agreement that Google had signed with the FFMP people, maybe that'd be different, but it's not. It's free open source software, so it's different.

Tacho sent me a challenge. Oh, for goodness sake. So apparently. Apparently there is an actual phobia. if you've got fear of the number 666, how do you know this Tacho? I'm imagining you Googled it quickly and he wants me to pronou it. I'm gonna guess Pronou. You Googled

[00:31:36] Michelle Frechette: it,

[00:31:37] Nathan Wrigley: right? So it's, go for it.

So apparently I've got, pronounce it's about four, about 30 letters. I'd say Cooey, hhe phobia. I think I did pretty good. I think that's pretty good. I'm impressed. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that. yeah.

[00:31:52] Rhys Wynne: Next, next, next week when I'm safely in the chat, I'll send you some Welsh.

[00:31:57] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. no, don't send me any Welsh.

Do, go, and Google though the fear of long words because it is a massively a noticeable long word. It's so hysterical. okay, so there we go. So there, I have tried it. and just so that James says, Rex, Reddit is a talk successful, so go to cgi.com/whatever the heck it was. Where is it?

Small, web, slash small web to find out more. We've got one more from, Rhys before we move on to Michelle's piece. this is CGI again, but what's going on here?

[00:32:33] Rhys Wynne: Oh, this is just silly and it just made me laugh. CGI have on their website a bloopers section, so they, for their search, it is just.

Fun results that come up. And I think in the world of, AI being confidently wrong, having a page where we go, you know what, we are wrong. and it's just, it just, some of the ones just, if you scroll down, they're, re, they're let's say for work, and they're just.

Yeah, they're things,

[00:33:05] Nathan Wrigley: it's like screenshots of where people have gone to CGI as a search engine and asked it something and instead of getting anything right, it just totally freaked out. It gave up just nonsense. So yeah, somebody typed in 44 NZ or NZ dollars to us. And what that to me is saying is tell me how many dollars I get in US dollars if I've got 44 New Zealand dollars.

And instead of giving your number, it says One New Zealand dollar and microsecond, dollar compatible. I don't even know. How did it get microsecond? What the heck's that is an NZ a microsecond? Is that what that No, it's a user us. Oh, so yeah, I

[00:33:50] Michelle Frechette: think us instead of MS for microsecond.

[00:33:53] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, I see. Okay. Okay.

That's interesting. And then we've got another one here where somebody, somebody asked, I guess they typed in the word hacker or something. They want a description just of what the word hacker is. And normally it spells it out and gives you sound. it says one who works hard, one who works hard at boring tasks.

That's great. Synonyms are drudge and hack. That's a good one. And then some. This what made me, somebody's threatened. They wanted to know. They wanted to know. 1337 in French, you never seen to want the number, maybe the date. 1337 in French. So they got that and the answer they got out was pure numbers of French are not compatible.

So if you are French apologies, the CGI search engine has determined that you, none of you can count. Yeah. But I just

[00:34:55] Rhys Wynne: think that is in a world where it's funny, like everything just has to be almost perfect. Oh, the next one. in a world where it's just, see, I looked at this offline.

[00:35:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So this is why I'm not laughing.

Yeah, no, this is brilliant. I love it. So somebody's the next one, which made me sitter as well. Got Michelle going. It says half pony. Oh. The answer is not, 0.5 US ponies. I dunno. I dunno why it's got me a US pony, but it's, so they've, what's nice here is whatever their algorithm is, they've clearly identified, areas for improvement, but they've, rather than doing it on the quiet there, they're publishing.

'cause they're hilarious.

[00:35:42] Rhys Wynne: Yeah. And

[00:35:42] Nathan Wrigley: one, one, the next one is one password manage. Sorry. One password. Password generator. They're obviously trying to know a little bit more about that software and all they get back is the answer. Five.

[00:35:55] Michelle Frechette: Five.

This could be a real time suck though. I could spend hours reading this.

[00:36:03] Nathan Wrigley: Do you think that, do you think that's, they're giving you that password? You use the password five. 'cause that's secure. Very secure. And it goes on. There's a few more, but that will stop there.

[00:36:14] Michelle Frechette: Oh my goodness. That's hysterical. Oh, it's

[00:36:16] Nathan Wrigley: so good.

That's brilliant. And it's just made me laugh. 1330. So we've got some more. Commentary here. Courtney Robertson says 1337 equals elite speak. 1337 means elite. Throw back to, oh, predictive typing. I see. Kids these days will never know. I did not know that microsecond is, oh look, tacho says it's steep.

What is that character again in green? It's mu, so it's mu s. Which looks like us. Yeah. But you gotta imagine the search engine is not, it's not looking at the search. You gotta imagine it, it got the character you from that search. Anyway. That's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. what else have we got? And then Tacho follows up by, oh,

[00:37:02] Michelle Frechette: I'm lead speak.

You sold too.

[00:37:04] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's good. I love that.

[00:37:07] Rhys Wynne: I saw something on, on online, which is this, is, I'm an elite Hackel. I'm elite Hackel. I'm, 40 years old with a hery back saw.

[00:37:18] Nathan Wrigley: I don't even know what that means, but I like it 'cause it rhymes. Yeah. That's all that I need to know. Okay. So that comedy will presumably get more and more over time.

That's, the link will be in the show notes, but it's help.cgi.com/cgi. Forward slash bloopers and you two can, go and enjoy the, and if you get any, go and add 'em in. yeah, just so that CGI is the search engine that I prefer these days. I've completely been Google, literally everything that is to do with search is now done for me via cgi.

Go and check it out. There's quite a few interesting little features they've got there, including, you can wait your search. So for example, you can tell it that you like some websites more than others. you have to pay. So there's that. You have to pay a fee every year or every month if you want to use it.

But I think there's a, free tier, but it, you quickly use, you burn through that pretty quickly. I've paid for it and I really like it. Okay. That was re's stuff. Gosh, Rhys, you stopped half the show. Sorry. That was so good though. Well done. So to Michelle. Michelle, what have you got for us here?

[00:38:26] Michelle Frechette: Yeah, all of my. Contracts that I had this year have, expired. And so I am on a two month semi sabbatical. So November and December I am working for myself and post status. And so I've been working on a marketing boutique Oh, which is basically just the store on my website, but I'm a marketer, so I had to call it something fun.

and I have created a whole bunch of services that I have to offer. So for, example, DEIB consulting, pick my brain, personal branding, coaching, public speaking, coaching, blogging for other people, custom 4 0 4 page content and wire framing, all of those different kinds of things. And so these are my, and, by the way.

Custom 4 0 4 pages is $404 and that was not

[00:39:11] Rhys Wynne: Ah, nice. Not accidental.

[00:39:13] Nathan Wrigley: Very good.

[00:39:14] Michelle Frechette: That was Mark West Guard's idea. I love that.

[00:39:16] Rhys Wynne: I can't find that. Why is it? Yeah. Yeah, I know, right? That was good. That was good. So good.

[00:39:23] Michelle Frechette: and there's gonna be more, I have some, do I have one downloadable right now I'm creating more downloadables, so that was take a little bit more time than just putting some things up on the web.

So I'm gonna be creating a lot more and I'm going to be launching, a intensive. Probably 20 week, marketing workshop for plugin developers who are working on their own and could use a little marketing help. So that's gonna be coming, I'm working on the, the, outline for that right now. And so I'm gonna be launching that probably in December.

I'll, put it out there and it'll begin in February. So if there are plugin developers who think I just really need some help getting these things out there, I, will only take five people because it's going to be an intensive. And so I wanna be able to make sure everybody gets the attention that they need.

yes, during my semi sabbatical, I'm also very busy just working on my own things right now, so That's

[00:40:17] Nathan Wrigley: lovely. So I'll just read the URL into the record so that you can get it if you're just consuming this on audio. so it's michelle frache.com. Slash marketing dash boutique, and you can see all the different bits and pieces that Michelle is available for.

And if you know anything about Michelle, she's ubiquitous. Let's go with that word. She's everywhere all at once and, really gets this sort of stuff inside and out. So DEIB cur, consulting, there's a pick my brain session, personal branding, coaching, personal, sorry, public speaking and a whole bunch of other stuff.

So thank you. That's great. We, yeah, thank you for

[00:40:53] Michelle Frechette: letting me share.

[00:40:53] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, no, of course. That's absolutely fine.

[00:40:55] Michelle Frechette: Yeah.

[00:40:56] Nathan Wrigley: and then we'll get to the WordPresses stuff. So we're gonna have to race through a bunch of these. Maybe some of the bits that I dropped into the show notes, panelists will just drop because we might not have time, but here we go.

WordPress 6.9 is coming around the corner. we're on release candidate one, if you are unfamiliar with how this works. we have all these alpha and beta testing cycles. And then finally, just before the software is released into the wild, we have these release candidates, typically three, something like that, where it's.

More or less finished. The hope is it is finished. but there's just this last little chance to hoover up any bogs that may have crept in. And so if you want to be a part of this and test it, which many people would think is a really great thing to do, then please go and check this, post out it, the links will be in the show notes, and there's a few bits and pieces here just saying what's in there probably in terms of what to look out for.

So it's the, things like the site editor improvements that we'll come onto in a minute. There's a bunch of developed developer updates and. Some performance improvements as well. So if you are not new and this is your, this is your bag and you've done it lots and lots of times, it'll give you guidance.

And then importantly, how you do it, there's steps here about how you can, get involved and what people really need. Testing. So accordion blocks, ability to hide blocks, blah, blah, blah. Loads of stuff in there. So go check that out. I don't suppose either of you have got anything to say about that, so I'll just press on it.

I

[00:42:19] Michelle Frechette: was just gonna say, I, did a little search the other day to find out what version was the first version of WordPress I used and discovered it was 3.1 and it's like we're on 6.9 already. That's crazy.

[00:42:30] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. That's a, that's really old. That was when the dinosaurs was still, Steger source was using, WordPress 3.1, so go check it out.

So we will move on quickly. a new thing launching in 6.9, pretty seismic. I, think it's entirely possible if you're a casual user of WordPress, entirely possible that this will. Pass you by entirely. But it, lays the groundwork for developers in particular to do a lot of really clever stuff.

So if you think about WordPress, if you think about it, every time you go into WordPress, you're just doing stuff all the time. You are clicking buttons, creating posts, deleting stuff, adding users, creating blocks, changing themes. You think of the myriad things, the hundreds, possibly thousands of things that you can do.

Imagine calling those instead of just sort saying that's a thing. Call it an ability. And that's basically what this new WordPress API enables developers to do. They're able to hook into all of those things in this totally standardized way so that in the future developers of any kind, but I'm thinking particularly about ai.

What it might be able to do, we'll be able to hook into this new sort of first class citizen inside of WordPress and be able to do some pretty funky things. Like I said, if you're not a developer, it's probably a little bit in the weeds, but if you are a developer, then Jonathan Boser, wrote up exactly what it is that you can do, what it offers to developers and so on and so forth, and it gets into the weeds and the code.

And so it's not really suitable for an audio podcast. But if you haven't heard of this and you're not familiar with it, then I think it's gonna be like really game changing, for WordPress, especially in the advent of ai because this will allow ais, if you ask it to do stuff, it will be able to do the things 'cause it knows how to do the things, if that makes sense.

Anything to add about that? Not

[00:44:28] Rhys Wynne: really. No.

[00:44:29] Nathan Wrigley: Lovely. That's fine. But, yeah, good, article. We've been talking about it for absolutely ages, but Jonathan's kind of encapsulated it just in the run up to the latest version of WordPress. Now, this is an interesting one. So I'm showing on the screen a post by Adam Silverstein.

It's called Notes, and it's coming in the next few weeks to your WordPress install. So the idea is in the very near future, you'll be able to have okay, collaborative editing. It is not, but it's the capacity for you to add a note inside of the WordPress block editor. It's. Fairly constrained where you can use it.

So like in a PO post or a page totally available and you can, excuse me, you can add a note on a block by block basis. So for example, you could the paragraph, add a little note saying, I don't know, oh, I don't know, editorial team, will you please check the spelling of this paragraph? Or something like that.

And then you can save it and it'll be there forever more for people to look at. And you'll be able to do things like track changes. you'll be able to take actions on that, confirm that it's been resolved and what have you, what kind of things you might do in Google Docs. What it can't do though is it can't step out of the constraints of like things like post or pages.

So it's limited in use. You can't use it, I dunno, in the back end of WordPress, for check out this new plugin that I've uploaded or anything. So it's gonna be used inside of those. And you can't do bits inside of, blocks. You're gonna do the whole paragraph. It's a note by block only. So that's coming and I just thought that was worth mentioning and, slipped onto the radar a lot.

But it's a cool new feature and it's steps into the sphere of collaborative editing, which we'll get into in a little bit. But it's coming your way. And there's a post here. again, it's a developer post, so I won't go into it. I'll, Adam Silverstein suggests how you might wish to implement this in various different scenarios.

[00:46:23] Rhys Wynne: One, one thing which I think could be really useful, and it may be like an add-on plugin, it is to get the notes de displaying on the front end. And I, but only to logged in individuals for like developers and builders. When you are receiving feedback for a design. It could be quite a useful way.

'cause as somebody who does this professionally, I get feedback in Google Docs. I get feedback in emails, I get feedback in Figma files. I get, I have to sign up to a, this is a screenshot with us commenting on it. I've had like print outs before and people just writing their printouts. yeah.

Having a standard, a way to maybe do it within WordPress. Could be interesting. Yeah. But it may be probably couple of steps too far, just yet. Yep. So maybe just like a plugin to begin with. Yep. But that was the first thing that I thought of was,

[00:47:22] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. I, guess to, me, the most use gi given the constraints that I have around the, way that I interact with WordPress, I no longer build clients websites for me, like note to self is like a really credible thing, like I'll write a paragraph and I'll, but I'll just end halfway through and I'll put something in saying, okay, come back to this later.

Yeah, finish it off. The language is wrong. It's too long, it's too short, whatever. Yeah. So even as a note to self, it might be quite interesting, but you can definitely assign it to other users and what have you. But it's, the beginning, right? It's, we're not at the end of this journey. Exactly. yeah.

Michelle, anything or should we crack on?

[00:47:56] Michelle Frechette: I just think it's a great idea. Yeah, and I think it's a good, it's really definitely a forward moving and growth in WordPress, and I think that, especially for people who are in the writing part of it, right? So you're maybe running a blog for a company and there's seven or eight different writers.

It's really a good feedback tool and it will move us out of Google Docs and write into, into the WordPress editor.

[00:48:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. that's the perfect segue because the next few bits are about exactly this broader definition called collaborative editing. So many years ago, it's got lost a bit in the weeds of the different bits and pieces, but we got, we're in this four phase project for Word, for the, block editor.

and we're in the third one at the moment, which is collaborative editing. And the idea is to create something akin to Google Docs. So this, bit that we're looking at now, notes feels like a little bit of that, but over here. We have a post on the make wordpress.org website by Anne McCarthy where she, describes a little bit more about the, where we're at with collaboration efforts within WordPress.

And, there's a, few bits around realtime collaboration. So this, the idea I guess would be to get to what you would see in Google Docs, but when you look at Google Docs, all of the magic that you see there, if you imagine all of that is just going in and out of Google's, billions and billions of dollars worth of infrastructure, piece of cake for Google.

If you are on like super affordable, cheap hosting, doing that kind of real time collaborative effort is. Either gonna be impossible or certainly it's gonna add some, I don't know. It's gonna be difficult, let's put it that way. And so this project is in a, an in progress state. And Anne goes on to describe where we're at and what the possible things are in the future.

However, curiously, mentions here that WordPress VIP, which is, I don't know how to describe that. It's like the fast lane for, lots of major, websites. think something like the White House or something like that is probably with VIP. so the constraints are much less, there's probably lots of money being spent.

There's what have you. And the team over there are really aligned with the cutting edge of WordPress. They have a working implementation of this, which is demonstrated here. And again, I'll link to this in the show notes, but you can Google this for yourself or cgi, this for yourself. That's never gonna be a noun, is it?

Or a verb to cgi. so this one's called For Humans Who Work Together, the Future of Collabor Collaborative Editing in WordPress, VIP. And although you don't actually see it, there's a lot of text here and there's a video somewhere. I think it's probably, I don't know, it's probably this, it's, if you scroll Yeah, right there.

Yeah. I scrolled past it. It looked like an image, didn't it? Yeah. The video, although it purports to show what we want to see, it doesn't, it's like a video of, it's like a graphic, version of what you want. See, it's clearly not inside a WordPress website. apparently anyway, they've cracked this knot.

But the idea is that they probably haven't cracked it with the infrastructure that you or I. No,

[00:51:11] Michelle Frechette: I won't have access to that in my website. No,

[00:51:13] Nathan Wrigley: exactly. but, what if though, what if, say somebody like Jet Pack. To offer. I'm just gonna make up numbers, five, $10 a month or something.

And they give you that infrastructure. I can see that as something which may come online. who needs collaborative editing? if you really need it and you're on a cheap post in every other way, here's $10. We'll give you the infrastructure to make that happen. Rhys, it feels like you've got something to say.

[00:51:42] Rhys Wynne: Oh no, I think it's, I think you do raise a good point. you pretty much set the point I was probably going to make. I was going to say there will be somebody who will break from the pack and go, what we can offer. Yeah. Because, he uses, the, W-P-V-I-P uses web socket, which Yeah.

Is quite a, you need a pretty good host to, to offer it. so yeah, they, somebody will break from the pack and go, we are gonna offer web sockets for. Cheap, and then all of a sudden you can use, that.

[00:52:24] Nathan Wrigley: I had a, piece somewhere where they, and I, can't remember if it was this piece or another piece, but there was something that I looked at sometime this week where they described three different approaches Yeah.

For how this may be tackled.

[00:52:36] Rhys Wynne: Yeah.

[00:52:36] Nathan Wrigley: and I'm looking at a variety of different pieces here. So I got, I think

[00:52:39] Rhys Wynne: it was the,

[00:52:40] Nathan Wrigley: was it the, oh, here we go. There you go. Is that it? Is that the one? No, it's, no it's not. No, it's not. It was the three different. Is a repository. It was like, yeah, maybe. Let's have a look here.

So I'm, also looking at a repository piece. There's a few bits that have dropped this week all around this collaborative editing. Let's just have a little look, see if we can find something with a three bullet point list. So there we go. Yeah, that's lovely. So here are three different, so again, excuse me, I'll just mention it in full.

This piece is on the repository by Ray Morrie. it's called Realtime Collaboration Flagged for WordPress 7.0 amid ongoing technical challenges. So if you want to find it, go Google that. I got an email from somebody the other day saying, you mentioned a piece and you didn't say what it was called. So I'm definitely trying harder to say, say what they're called, so that I don't get told off again.

So here we go. The first one is HTTP, long polling, which auto saves work periodically. Obviously you can imagine the downside of that. It might not have saved it when you clicked. Close. Yeah. it might do it every 30 seconds, in which case things might not be saved in a current way. You can see the downsides of that.

The other one, is web RTC, peer to peer, which enables direct browsers to browser connections, which is great, better performance. and it doesn't require web sockets. So maybe that's gonna be something to look at. And then this one feels like the Premier League version of it. Web Sockets provides the first experience for sites, who's hosting supports them.

This approach is the one that WordPress VIP use, but a lot of, for technical reasons, a lot of cheaper, for one of a better word, web host will not have this enabled in your, account. So anyway, we've no idea how we're gonna cross that Rubicon. But there are different technical approaches. WordPress VIP have cracked that knot, it's gonna be difficult in the future.

So loads and loads of different pieces around all that. So there's the first one from Anne, second one by Ray. And then this third one, which that mega menu you really does get in the way there. Yeah. A minute. You go anywhere near the top. and then this third one by W-P-V-I-P, enterprise WordPress.

Anything else or shall we move on? Okay. Just to say, Here we go. Mark West Card says Good morning. That's, hello. nice to have you with us, mark. And I'm gonna make that go away, Moving on then. lots of the WordPress events that you attend, if you have a go, you're probably aware that there's some sort of sponsorship going on in the background.

familiar companies appearing over and over again. And that may be because of this thing. The Global Partner program, it goes on an annual basis. So companies sign up and then in order, because they've signed up, they get access to the sort of global network. So it doesn't just cover the flagship events like the word Camp Asias and US and EU and that kind of thing.

It also covers a, whole bunch of other things. for example, let me see if I can find it. There was a little list somewhere of. Things that were included. I can't find it now. Oh yeah, here we go. it covers sponsorship of local WordPress events. So for example, things like meetups and things like that, it will cover the meetup license for, it will help cover the cost of a meetup license for the people who are organizing those meetups.

It will also cover the administrative costs of things like insurance, banking and annual or financial audits that ensure transparent operations. But from a sponsorship point of view, I guess the thing that you are interested in is that you get exposure at all of those different things. So depending on the tier that you go in at, you will get a different level of representation and you can see the cost.

Here when I look at these numbers, they just seem so eye watering. But, I guess if you're a big company, these kind of numbers are just, eh. Yeah, it is what it is. So three levels. Global leader is $180,000. Regional powerhouse is $110,000. Community builder is $60,000 and there's like a tick list here of all the different things.

I read somewhere this week about this whole thing becoming more flat. I dunno if there was much more sort of nuance or you could cherry pick what you wanted in the past. But anyway, they're the they're the different bits and pieces. Anybody got anything on that?

[00:57:04] Michelle Frechette: I'm just grateful to the sponsors.

Yeah.

[00:57:06] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, too, right? Yeah. It's a funny one, isn't it? Because you don't really know that they are global sponsor unless you're like really in the weeds of it all. You wouldn't know that they were a global sponsor. You'd just assume that they've paid. But I, don't know what the ROI is on a lot of those things.

I'm imagining there's a lot of philanthropy in that, I don't suppose you're gonna turn up to all of those WordPress events and get a return specifically on the investment. But the fact that you are doing it, and you probably have your logo and badge put in all sorts of places where kudos is acquired.

[00:57:40] Michelle Frechette: As somebody who has organized a lot of word camps. I will say though, that like when, you get your list of global sponsors that you have to put on the website for the word camp, it'll say these ones are gold sponsors, these ones are silver sponsors, that kind of thing. And I think it leads to a misinformation to people who are attending or looking to also sponsor.

So for example, from the global pool of money, your word camp might get $2,500, but you've listed three gold and a silver sponsor, which looks like you've gotten, maybe. $3,500 or it's, bigger camps that cost more when the reality is you haven't got that much, oh, I would much rather, List that these are our global sponsors. These are the ones who've paid a thousand, these are the ones who paid 500, et cetera. So I think it leads to a little bit of misinformation. People think that you might be overfunded or that you don't need more sponsors when that isn't always the case.

[00:58:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay.

So just to prize that apart because that money is going to the central repository for want of a better word. If you are running a meet up and you are ru you are showing those global sponsors, it might look as if you are just awash with sponsor. Whereas in fact, you might be struggling financially to run that thing.

I see. Yeah.

[00:58:57] Michelle Frechette: but the meetup itself doesn't necessarily have like different levels, but the work camps do, and that's where it really becomes this thing that looks like a little bit of a disparity. Actually. It doesn't look like disparity. It is disparity, but people don't know that there is one. And so like you may actually still need a lot of sponsorship because you didn't get a lot from the general fund.

Yeah, okay. But it looks like you're overfunded from the general fund.

[00:59:18] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. That's interesting. Rhys, something there to add there. Sorry.

[00:59:22] Rhys Wynne: No, I was just, I'm just nodding a go and agree with Michelle. It's the way in which it works is, and this is, again, this is, eight years ago when I did, work at Manchester was we were told that the global sponsors need to have the same level as the, we had a local host who sponsored us, like a UK based host who, was like the top tier sponsor.

And whilst. They, we had to put them at the same level. Got it. so one of them, I don't not signalling 'em out, but it's the one I remember with Jet Pack. So we had to put Jet pack on the same level as, The host. Yeah, I got it. And we were explicitly told that this is what you need.

Whatever you offered them, you offer us. Okay.

[01:00:16] Nathan Wrigley: So yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? Because then if you, then it looks like you got two lots of whatever the, so the host, the, sponsorship company who went to you and paid you X amount of pounds. Yeah. It would look to them as if Jet Pack had paid that X amount of pounds directly to Exactly.

You as well. I see what you mean. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. I know that a lot of WordPress event meet, organizers. This, conversation goes backwards and forwards all the time, doesn't it? I sadly, I don't have the perfect answer for anybody. Yeah. But, anyway, if you are interested and you have the pockets that are deep enough to satisfy those amounts of dollars, then that's up and available.

I will link to it in the show notes. Okay. Moving on, a bit more sort of designy, staring into the future kind of work. This is, rich Tabor. If you haven't heard of Rich Tabor. He is an, he's now, he has been for several years an automation and, he's launched this little new project called WordPress Explorations.

And he is right, he's one of these key figures in, automatic where I think he, gets to make quite a few decisions about the way WordPress is gonna behave in the future, certainly probably the way it looks and things like that. And I'll just read the very top of his article 'cause it's interesting.

And so there's not a lot to say about what's happening now, but this is more of a, maybe bookmark this because, hopefully Rich will produce some content in the near future. He says, I've been thinking about WordPress differently lately. Taking a step back from the accumulated complexity and simply imagining how it could exist.

WordPress has grown both in capability and in many different shapes. It can take that evolution enables millions of people to publish online, but it also adds layers of complexity that have built up over time. So in this new series of posts I'm exploring what else could be, what if we could rebuild the ship with the knowledge of everything we've learned along the way?

What could we do differently today? And I'll just read the last little paragraph. I want to question every assumption, challenge, requirements, carved in stone, strip concepts down to their core and ask what's actually needed. Because what, that's often where innovation happens when you stop accepting constraints as given.

Now, if this had been me writing this blog post, I think you could basically ignore, it, because you know what lever do I get to pull about this? But I'm curious as to why Rich is doing this. maybe it's just a, an experiment he's running in his own mind. he just wants to see what, he can come up with and what people like the look of and so on.

But also at the same time, I'm wondering, okay. Is he doing this so that he gets some intuitions about what he actually wants to happen and what might get implemented inside a WordPress. So that was on the 10th of November. And then following on more or less, immediately on the same day, the first one of these ideas dropped and it was all about the, way that pages and layers work.

Now, I dunno if you've worked inside of full site editing or just the block editor. It is a hot mess, knowing where the heck you're gonna end up. Like I now know that if I click on the logo, top left, if I'm in the block editor, I click it, wait for five seconds, then I click it again and wait for another five seconds, and then I get back to where I'm expecting to be.

But unfamiliar users, this UI is just. A total, like it's, there's just so many ways to get lost and not know where you're going. And so this is the first thing that he's tackling. He's trying to make it so that you click on things and they sensibly go to other things. There's tiny little short video here, but you can see he's got this sort of slightly different UI that he's playing with and exploring, and it's laid out differently like this.

So he is got pages in one tab and layers in another tab, and so on and so forth. And, yeah. And so it goes, and I made a little comment, at the bottom because I thought, oh, he's gonna be delighted. I made a comment. I was gonna, he's gonna wake up and have that happy Monday morning feeling. Oh, great. but I think it's an interesting experiment to follow, because he is definitely a, somebody that can make that change happen.

I talked way too much about that. I'm sorry. Do you want to talk about that, either of you?

[01:04:28] Rhys Wynne: I, don't use

[01:04:29] Michelle Frechette: that. Yeah.

[01:04:30] Rhys Wynne: No, I, don't use it. I think it's interesting that he's. say these are the problems. 'cause I think they're probably, they probably are.

[01:04:42] Nathan Wrigley: it is interesting if you are, if you, can easily get trapped inside the ui and there is no, you, know how in WordPress you can always figure out a way round it so you can, yeah, I don't know.

you you just learn the muscle memory in the original, in the normal WordPress with the admin bar along the top, and then the, the menu down the left. It's ever present and it's always there. Yeah. But in, in what we've got now, things get hidden. Menus disappear. you end up in different random places that you weren't expecting and you've, gotta know that you've gotta click the back arrow at the top.

Yeah. And on you go. And, where you are at the moment, you click the logo in the top left corner gets you to a different spot, basically. It's easy to screw up. And if you're not persevering and you're not willing to accept those faults. And so I think, this is gonna be an interesting experiment.

I think there's just definitely some, some ideas that will come out of his mind, I'm sure to make this, thing a whole lot easier. So anyway, there we go. So go and check it out. Maybe subscribe to his blog and see what he's doing over the next week or so. weeks, I'm guessing. Shall I move on? Yeah.

Alright. Okay. In which case, speaking of, so this is a video. I don't actually want to watch this. It was just an interesting one. This was, this was a little video from somebody who did a presentation at Word Camp Canada. and I, posted something I. On, XI think it was this week where I said I'm really enjoying full site editing.

And there's quite a few people out there at the moment who I think have come into the same realization. I know there's a lot of people who don't use it, will never use it, refuse to use it, on all of that. But there are some bits of it that have just the pennies dropped for me over the last, I don't know, four or five weeks.

And I really enjoy it, especially the templating. And so I'm just curious looking around to see what other people are finding the same initiative. So this was a piece, which came from Joe Simpson. I'm sure Michelle knows Joe pretty well. I don't, I

[01:06:45] Rhys Wynne: do. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:46] Nathan Wrigley: and it was his talk about why he's decided after many, months of saying I'm not going, or years even of saying I'm not going near full sight anything, why he is decided to give it another go.

And I'm right there. I was classic themes all the way happy with how they worked. Familiar with a few themes that I was familiar with and they did everything I wanted them to do. And then more recently I started playing with full site editing, particularly Ollie, I dunno if you've come across that theme by Mike McAllister.

And really enjoyed what he's done over there and just made life a little bit easier. So. that was the piece from Joe Simpson. I'll put that in the show notes. And then this piece came from Human Made, which was almost like made for me to read it. and it's about them, them having this project where they decided they would lean into full site editing.

I'm sure that human made were probably doing that anyway. But the, reason it fitted for me perfectly was because they decided that they would just, rather than reinvent the wheel and come up with their own thing, they were just gonna use Ollie.

[01:07:44] Rhys Wynne: Yeah.

[01:07:44] Nathan Wrigley: This seen by Mike McAllister because of, it's a full site editing theme, so it uses all the full site editing features, but the killer that they've got is these patterns.

They've got these, this suite of hundreds and hundreds of really nicely designed patterns. And really for most projects, there's probably something in there. You can point, click, modify slightly, uses core blocks. And, and so human Made for this particular project decided to just go with that stack, FSE, Ollie, and then whatever the heck else they built into it.

And, this is a, an article explaining exactly why they did that and how they did it. Anything on that one? Anybody?

[01:08:24] Rhys Wynne: No, it's interesting they've gone with Ollie. it's something I've found. Probably myself, I'm, not, I'm a freelancer, not an agency.

Yeah. But I have, I would say in the last three, four years, like certainly in the last two to three years, I have gone from building themes, from scratch using, a, framework to Ollie Cadence. One of those things where it's just, yeah. 'cause you can do it a lot quicker.

Yeah. And I think this is what this article says is, yeah, you can get the same result and it'll probably work going forward. even now, I go back to a couple of my older sites or, some of the ones that I built myself, they weren't wrong. I, wasn't doing it wrong, but it was, it's, just like something new has come on board.

to use The, for example, something like the padding, like on blocks. Yeah. Which wasn't when I started part of, the full site editing. Amazing. That has to be added on now. So I have to go in and go, okay, this is, has to be done with something like, it's should be.

[01:09:46] Nathan Wrigley: he's leveraging, he just uses core blocks as far as I can see. Yeah. He's, but also the, there's him, and I forget who else he's with. He's with somebody else he's partnered up with. and between them they've launched quite a few things. Recently. They've got this menu designer, which enables you to have an, a sort of nice mobile menu or something, like a mega menu or something like that.

But then also this week I see that he's working on some sort of CSS. Wrangler. I dunno how that works. I saw a video and I can't really remember, but it's, enabling you to, add your own custom CSS and I think there's a bunch of conditions that you can add to it so that it only renders certain CSS in certain situations which may be appropriate, given that you only want it on a certain page or in a certain part of your website or what have you.

So there seem to be doing a lot, and I know it's not for everybody. the Elementor crowd who are wedded to that will love element or depend, whatever tool you are using. I'm not saying you should drop that. If it works for you, you do it, But, I'm enjoying what's coming out with the full site editing side of things at the moment and, yeah, really loving what they're doing over at Ollie.

Anything else? Or shall we move on? I will take that as a move on. Yeah. In which case, let us go here. Ha. So have either of you played with Telex yet? Not

[01:11:06] Rhys Wynne: yet.

[01:11:07] Nathan Wrigley: Briefly, So te, oh, I don't even know where to begin, like this sort of stuff. Two years ago was the, is the stuff of dreams you can go to telex and basically you type in a prompt.

So imagine, I dunno, you wanna go to chat GPT or something and it'll spit out a block based upon what you tell it to do. So it is blocks, I'm sure that it'll come to a much more, different aspects of WordPress. Hope, maybe it'll do plugins and maybe it'll do themes and that kind of thing. But you just tell it to go and make you a block.

Blow me. I tried a couple of fairly straightforward things. It nailed, honestly, I can't tell you whether the output CSS and all of that was great, but it did the thing that I asked it to fairly straightforward. I wanted, I don't know, adaptations to text. I wanted a real estate block where I could upload ha information about houses, this kind of thing.

It did, it, it just totally got it first time. And and I think this is gonna become a really powerful thing in the future. imagine a WordPress website in which you, just need a block right now and you haven't got the time to go look for one that might satisfy your criteria. You just want snowflakes falling 'cause it's coming up to Christmas.

You could just go build the block with telex. If it works on your site, it's fine. I guess the security thing is, a thing, but maybe, I don't know, because it's just on your site. Maybe there's something to be said about that, and then you could dispose of it at the other end. This is a blog post from wordpress.com where they find 12, examples out in the wild where people have built stuff using telex and it's a block and what the heck?

Somebody built Minesweeper the game. Minesweeper. like, how hard is that? And I, can only imagine the prompt was fairly straightforward. can I have minesweeper in a block?

[01:13:03] Rhys Wynne: It's also, looking at that it's, you can change the options. Yeah. Like you could change the society.

Incredible thing,

[01:13:10] Nathan Wrigley: isn't it? Isn't it just stunning? So yeah, you can change the number of rows, the number of columns, the number of mines. I dunno if that came as part of the prompt, given the amount of information out there about minesweeper on the web, I'm sure the AI can probably have quite a few of those intuitions all by itself.

So that's the whole thing. So somebody just did that. And then confetti, you want somebody when they click the submit now button to get inundated with confetti, you can see it, right? You can totally see, you are like, I don't need a whole plugin that I need to waste time searching for that might do this one thing.

It's just build it telex and then I'll use it and I'll bin it when I'm, I've had it. Personality quiz. God knows what that would be like if I went through that. it's a quiz, personality quiz or otherwise you can imagine using that and accordion shipping to a WordPress install near you fairly soon.

out by default. But the accordion block, if you wanted an accordion block, somebody built that. Scratcher. Somebody built a text block where you can like, I don't know, it's like a ca like a scratch card that you want something to be revealed as you scrape over it. It's a gimmick. But it's a cool little gimmick.

Poker Nick Ziel, like this Pokemon Fun facts. what else have we got? One more bite. I didn't actually look at this one. It was something to do with recipes or what? Recipes,

[01:14:36] Rhys Wynne: yeah. Yeah.

[01:14:36] Nathan Wrigley: Space dots. You get the idea. Yeah. Yeah. and if you prize this, like this article isn't the point. Like what we see as these 12 things is not the point.

The point is. Possibilities. That's possible. Yeah. Yeah. Inside of the WordPress system, inside the interface, and I have no doubt this is gonna drop into just WordPress core at some point, some version of this in the sidebar where you'll build it, it'll install that block for as long as you need it, and then you'll be able to bin it.

And that is utterly remarkable. And so this promise of blocks, which many people dislike, it enables this, which is like a little mini application inside of a block. And it can be whatever the heck you are, your AI can imagine. Not you are not doing it. the AI's gonna do it for you. Isn't that cool though?

Don't you think that's remarkable? Yeah.

[01:15:38] Michelle Frechette: Can you scroll all the way back to the top?

[01:15:40] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah. The mind switcher one. Yeah.

[01:15:43] Michelle Frechette: no. Above that,

[01:15:44] Nathan Wrigley: oh,

[01:15:45] Michelle Frechette: I want, I, would wear that sweater. I just wanna say,

[01:15:47] Nathan Wrigley: oh, okay. See, there's a block sweater designer, like right off the bat, I want a load of like low res eight bit images that I could use for my sweater designs.

And it'll just give you, you just click refresh, get another one, get,

[01:16:01] Rhys Wynne: just wow. If, I may, I think taco's making a few points to thank you on, able to see, remain slightly on the parade a little bit. I think I let's go back. Agreed. Agree. Thank you so much. A bit with Taco.

[01:16:14] Nathan Wrigley: How far do I need to go back?

It's,

[01:16:16] Rhys Wynne: 1313.

[01:16:17] Nathan Wrigley: 13. 13. Lovely. Okay, let's go for it. I love taco's comments. Here we go. I love telex and I worry about it because no one is responsible for maintaining it. Okay. I didn't know that. That's interesting. no,

[01:16:27] Rhys Wynne: I, think, what he's, saying is that when you build a plugin with telex, if you don't have the ability to go right, what could be wrong with this, and this is something I've found a little bit with AI coding is.

How, like somebody made this comment to me and I was like, this is actually really sensible. Is the, I'm not, I know this is probably a dangerous thing for me to say as a, freelancer on a public forum, I make mistakes. I think everybody who codes does make mistakes, but almost like I know the mistakes that I make

[01:17:04] Nathan Wrigley: and yes, AI yeah.

[01:17:07] Rhys Wynne: May make mistakes that I'm not familiar with, and I think telex would make, it would write blocks in the way that it has been programmed to write blocks.

[01:17:19] Nathan Wrigley: I think Tao's, I think Tao's entirely right to bring that up, don't you? That was why I, so I dunno if you noticed when I said that I, mentioned right at the outset it might be a security problem.

[01:17:30] Rhys Wynne: Yeah.

[01:17:30] Nathan Wrigley: It might be mitigated by the fact that you are the only one that has that particular block. There's that, but it would presumably make the same mistakes. Over and over again across multiple websites. Yeah. So that's interesting.

[01:17:44] Rhys Wynne: not necessarily, the, when I've played with, Telex before, I've managed to get two, two blocks to do exactly the same thing, built completely differently.

[01:17:55] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[01:17:57] Rhys Wynne: it, is one of those things if you, put a prompt in, you will get almost two different ways of, of building it. And Yeah. It, and also I'm with the greatest of respect to the wordpress.com blog, and I'm, when they say called a lot of the blog, a lot of those ones that you highlighted, they're quite with the greatest respect.

They're quite simple. Like they're Yeah, they're, it's a mine. you're not building a massive e-commerce. And I think there was the, it was funny. One of the things that I noticed was on the weather block, there was a permission denied error because it couldn't access, Access. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't

[01:18:47] Nathan Wrigley: have access to, it's again, the actual weather. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I, think for me, the, thing that was interesting is the potential of this. Yes. And I completely agree. There was one further comment from Tacho, which I should put up. Tacho, said, I'll just read it out.

He says, I love telex and I worry about it because no one was responsible for maintaining it. And then he went on saying, maintaining its results. That is, yeah. We'll have a lot of never updated little plugins on, live websites because of this. Yeah. It's a security nightmare waiting to happen. I'm afraid.

I, I think you're absolutely right. My, my intuitions about, AI are not good. I think a lot of that kind of stuff, where I'm coming from with this is more just, I'm just intrigued by it, and I think you are right, tko. If we got to the point where like thousands of people were putting thousands of these telex blocks for want of a better.

Out there into the real world that would be concerning. Mark West Guard's got an interesting idea. He said it'd be interesting to pass the output through the plugin checker, which we're gonna come onto just before we finish this show today. So that might be an interesting, yeah. Way to calm for us about that.

That's an interesting one. and Courtney says, I've inquired without reply regarding the adherence of telex to, W-P-C-S-P-H-P-C-S. So coding standards. Yeah. or other standards. I want to know just that much of the Secret source. and then she says, what if we ensure the code, it creates this adheres to w CAG standards.

So we're now talking about accessibility as well. yeah. So the, floodgates are opening, aren't they? And as with all ai. The floodgates just opened and we just got deluged with slop. This has the capacity to do exactly that, but not just like slop, but security problematic slop. Yeah. I'm not minimizing any of that, tacho.

And I just thought it was interesting that these capabilities were now gonna be, available. Not that they should be deployed necessarily. And then Tao's got one more piece just before we finish, even if it does it today, Courtney. So he is replying to Courtney. No one's going to update that little block plugin.

And so 10 years down the line, it's vulnerable, to problems we don't know about today.

[01:21:06] Rhys Wynne: Yeah. Yes. to, lead on from what Tako has said, is it is also built with the WordPress of that day. So if the, whatever, let's say 6.8, 6.9 is the WordPress version, the code that. Pulls something in from the block, for example, doesn't necessarily is no guarantee to be present in seven, 7.1.

7.2, 7.3. Yeah. Or something may change. So yeah, Tucker makes a really, good point there in the, it's builds for the WordPress to be used today. If it is to be used as a very, small, like you said, a let's put some snow on it and then, let's release a plugin that will produce flow, snow on your website and, delete it after a month, then yeah, I think that, you know that, it is probably a really good.

Upfront. It's an

[01:22:04] Nathan Wrigley: interesting idea, isn't it? But I think Tachos probably got the right intuition where the best one in the world, nobody's gonna delete it. It's like the media library, how many images have you got in the media library that you knew at the point of op the minute you'd uploaded it, you knew that you didn't need it, but you just can't be bothered to go back and delete it.

So it sits there on no post, no page. Yeah. Just consuming resources, but it's ah, I'll just leave it there. Yeah. so Tacho point, made, and Courtney, thank you. the output is in question. It's more the, technological miracle that I think is going on. and again, just, Tammy will, let you know about this.

I am no proponent of ai. I, on the whole, I'm fairly nervous about what it's doing to all of us, but I just thought that was curious, curious implementation anymore on that, or should we move on? I. But thank you for your commentary, all of you about that, that every week there's one thing which gets the comments going.

And that week, this week, it was that one, wasn't it? It's always AI at the minute. It's always ai. so here as if, oh, segue. here we go. oh, serendipitous. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, definitely. So the WordPress plugin team, is rolling out automatic security scans for all plugin updates. So this is on the repository.

There's not much more to say than that, really, apart from to say that they all plugins that are now, getting updated, on wordpress.org are also getting the security scan with the automated scanning technology that they've got. So that not only means that when it's uploaded. Initially it has to pass the tests.

I'm guessing that it has to also maintain the test, the passing of those tests as it goes through its, life cycle and what have you. Amber Hines, who from Equalized Digital, she said it'd be interesting in the, future to be able to see telemetry coming out the back of that so that it would be more transparent to the general public perhaps through things like badges or data displayed on plugins pages.

So in other words, be nice to see did it pass those tests? How well did it pass those tests? Which bits did it fail and how quickly was it updated? Those kind of things. Now the, interesting thing there is, I know with the fair project going on, the acronym fair, going on, TECO will no doubt be able to speak to, to this.

And I know that Rhys is very keen on it. Is that right Rhys? You are like, you are fascinated by that project as well. Yeah. It'd be interesting to see, what, the alignment is between Fair 'cause obviously this is being done by.org on the repository that they maintain and as fair rolls out.

Oh, and there's Courtney in the comments as well. as fair rolls out, it'd be interesting to see if this is some sort of, I don't know, thing that they'll want to match with their own, system Pres. Presumably the system that they, that or dot org is using to check those plugins is open source and available.

I don't know if it can be used on other mirrors of, or any other repository. So yeah,

[01:25:23] Rhys Wynne: if there is the plugin, the PCP Health Check plugin is publicly available, so that I would assume is what they're using for this.

[01:25:34] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[01:25:36] Rhys Wynne: so yeah, I, think that would potentially be used. This is gonna be an interesting couple of weeks.

'cause you, if dependent on how this is implemented, and I apologize, I don't know how this is implemented. I think it talks about it that it, if you upload an update to a plugin, what happens then? Because next week or in two weeks, 6.9 comes out. And there's going to be a lot of plugins that currently are on the repository, that would, that were put on the repository before this security plugin check plugin that you have to pass.

Oh, I see. To, to, to, go on the repository that, there's a lot of plugins Oh yeah. That are currently out there that are probably going to be updated within the next month. Just to go, okay, we tested to do a 6.9, it works, but there's also, we've discovered these security bugs, gosh.

[01:26:39] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's, yeah. That's really interesting. It's a bit like suddenly somebody turning around to me and saying, you got your driving license back in the day, but you, actually, do you know what? We've decided to do all the driving tests again. Yeah, you gotta pass the driving test again. And me going, oh really?

What?

[01:26:55] Rhys Wynne: Yeah.

[01:26:56] Nathan Wrigley: It's a bit like that, isn't it? yeah, that, I hadn't even thought about that. That's fascinating.

[01:27:00] Rhys Wynne: It's, I don't know what I think it just says at the moment, we're just gotta run it. We are not going to. Do anything with it. Yeah, I dunno. Yeah. Says

[01:27:11] Nathan Wrigley: all it says in here, regarding that, it says for now the results are visible to the plugins team while monitoring how PCP behaves during updates and make and makes improvements.

Yeah. So I don't know if anything's gonna be communicated back to plugin developers. Maybe they're just getting, heuristics about what happens and, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I dunno. fast. I hadn't thought about that, but that's really interesting. Tacho is back. the better solution would be if every plugin owner would run this check on their plugin before submitting it.

Yeah, that makes sense. And that's fairly easy to do through GitHub actions. There you go. wise advice, we're fast running of time, aren't there?

[01:27:49] Michelle Frechette: Sorry. Aren't there some, perhaps some plugin developers who game the system by uploading a plugin and then updating it with things that would not have passed the first inspection.

[01:28:00] Nathan Wrigley: Oh. And that. Yeah. You mean in the current setup? You mean the way that it's run at the bank? Yes.

[01:28:05] Michelle Frechette: Prior to this, right? Yeah. When, they don't, if they're not running any checks on updates, then you could, submit your plugin that meets all of the criteria and then update it to not meet the criteria.

[01:28:18] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, we've, so I think that this

[01:28:20] Michelle Frechette: is gonna put some checks and balances in there too.

[01:28:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's interesting. 'cause we've had whole plugins that just got completely upended. Like somebody buys the plugin and then like you, like three days later it's okay, it's a, it's now an LMS, is it? whereas before it just did this one thing.

yeah, that has happened. That's definitely happened. And so this may well mitigate that a little bit. Yeah.

[01:28:42] Rhys Wynne: Yeah. I, for the record, I think this is a good thing. this is a good thing. I

[01:28:47] Nathan Wrigley: just,

[01:28:47] Rhys Wynne: I'm just trying to think of,

[01:28:49] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, I, think so too. I think so too. the, because time's not really available to us anymore.

I'll just quickly say, so repository, it's called WordPress Plugin Team rolls out automatic security scans for all plugin updates, 30th of October. It's a little bit stale, but I've missed a couple of these episodes and so that's why I'm mentioning it. I'm just gonna mention just because time really is running out.

There is a, what's New for developers article written by, big at Powery, hack with a whole, a ton of stuff, in about all of the different bits and pieces that you can check if you are a developer with 6.9 features and so on. lots and lots of detail in there. What else did we have? Oh, this I'll probably roll over to next week.

'cause gosh, this was fascinating to me. Reddit, WooCommerce is bringing some sort of. Connection, with Reddit, and I'm just gonna drop this sentence in and that's all I'm gonna say about it, over half of all online. On, I'm not gonna say it. over half of all online conversations related to purchasing decisions occur on Reddit.

What, how is that even really? Okay. Apparently that's true. and that's all we've got time for. I'm going to put that one in next week's show 'cause I think that's really interesting. But we don't have time for it this week. key dokey, right? That's it. We've run out of time. Yeah, I'm normally, I'll run over a little bit, but I've got an absolute hard stop today 'cause I've gotta go and do something, in a few.

No worries. Yeah, something nice. So I'm quite looking forward to it. So, I wanna end this show as, as quickly as possible. No, I'm joking. so it only remains for me say, firstly thank you to the. We've got our co-host, which is Michelle Cher joining us today. Thank you very much. And we've also got Rhys win joining us today as well.

That the show is all well and good, but it's way better, when people comment. And there's been quite a lot of commentary today, so I really appreciate that Marcus Burnett just joined us. Yeah, maybe call this episode goodbye, Marcus, or something like that. But, appreciate you commenting, appreciate you joining us.

We should be back this time next week for another, this week in WordPress. So Rhys, Michelle, thank you very much. We'll see you next time. Take bye bye. Bye. Bye

[01:31:13] Rhys Wynne: bye.