This Week in WordPress #338

It is time for this week in WordPress, episode number 338 entitled Correctamundo. It was recorded on Monday, the 30th of June, 2025. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and today I am joined by my co-host, Michelle Frechette. I'm also joined by Tim Nash and by Bud Kraus.

We spend a bit of time at the beginning going through some miscellaneous, which our guests have brought to the show.

So for example, we talk about Let's Encrypt and a specific configuration of that you might need to concern yourself about.

Tim also mentions the fact that apparently over 25% of UK businesses have been affected by a cyber attack at some point.

And then we get into the WordPressy stuff. We talk about the fact that quite a few repositories and Slack channels and plugins have been removed from the WordPress project. You can find out more about that.

We find out about what it means to be a contributor to Core for over 10 years from Felix Arntz. He also talks about View Transitions as well.

Then we get into a slightly alarming story about WordCamp Asia, and how it's being put on in the year 2026, and a whole bruhaha about the organization of that.

The Incident Response team is looking for some new members.

WPLDN is looking for some new speakers.

And then we get into some plugins, things like Able Player. Filter AI and Groundworx, which is a new navigation block.

And then we spend a bit of time looking at a few random SaaS apps towards the end, and it is all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

[00:01:46] Nathan Wrigley: This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of manage WordPress hosting that includes free domain, SSL, and 24 7 support. Bundle that with the hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients and get 30% of new purchases. Find out more at go.me/wpuilds.

And by Bluehost. Redefine your web hosting experience with Bluehost Cloud. Managed WordPress hosting that comes with lightning fast websites, 100% network uptime, and 24 7 priority support. With Bluehost Cloud, the possibilities are out of this world. Experience it today at bluehost.com/cloud.

And by Omnisend. Do you sell your stuff online? Then meet Omnisend. Yes, that Omnisend. The email and SMS tool that helps you make 73 bucks for every dollar spent. The one that's so good, it's almost boring. Hate the excitement of rollercoaster sales? Prefer a steady line going up? Try Omnisend today at omnisend.com.

Good. Good afternoon, good morning, good evening. Hello everybody. This is this week in WordPress. It's episode number 388. we bud's having a fun time there with this camera. That's, excellent. those of you who are listening won't appreciate his camera was sort wobbling all over the place. It is, it's 2:00 PM in the UK time.

I don't know exactly what that means, for example, if you're in Australia or the us different time zones. But thank you for anybody who has actually joined us. I really appreciate it. both Tim and I are in the UK where it is on Seasonably Hot. It's like eye wateringly hot. But it's not that hot.

it's also, it's UK hot. Yeah, it's very, it's also in the UK summer. Yeah, that's true. So it's not even unseasonably hot, is it? Yeah. okay. Okay. I take that. Is it summer though? Is it, I don't actually, I'm always confused by when summer actually kicks in and, spring is left behind us.

Nevertheless, it's very hot. I've got a fan on, Tim's got his window open. I think Michelle's got some fans going on as well, so there's a lot background noise. I've got my central air on. Oh, okay. if there's a load of background noise, I apologize, but we're going, with it because we're going to melt.

Otherwise it's very nice to have you, the audience with us. If you wouldn't mind sharing a URL with your social networks, that would that would be great. 'cause we love it when comments come in. And probably the best one to share. I do it each week, so if you're familiar with this show, it's nothing new, but there it is.

Tim is sporting it for us. It's, wp builds.com/live. Once more, wp builds.com/live. If you go there, then, hopefully the video will be embedded and playing and all of that. It's a, it's an embed from the video platform that we use. And as such, it's got a little comment box in the top right hand corner.

So if you don't wanna log into the, YouTube comments, which are on the right, on a desktop, then just feel free to hit that button and you can give us some comments and they should drop into the, chat here and we can display them. however, this show would not be happening, were it, not for the, guests that we've got.

But, first of all, there's our co-host over there, Michelle Ette. Hello. Hello. Hello. How's life going? I've got my voice back, which is good. I attended a Word camp this weekend, and if you've ever met me, you know that I usually don't have a voice right after Word Camp. I. yeah. we'll get into that in a minute actually, 'cause we've got that odd here and I think the pair of you had a right old shin wag.

let's just do the, quick bios from everybody first. So first up, Michelle Ette. As we just said, Michelle is the executive director at post status and addition. And in addition to the post status work, Michelle is the podcast barista at WP Coffee Talk. Co-founder of underrepresented in Tech, creator of WP Speakers and WP Career pages author and a frequent organizer and speaker at WordPress events.

She lives outside of Rochester, New York, where she likes to take nature photographs. And you can learn more about Michelle at the one URL Meet. Michelle on.online meet michelle.online. Thank you for joining us. I, need to add a few things. Yes, you're welcome. We have now over 115 people in the sponsor me wp.com, site, and I have neglected to the edit to my bio Yeah.

[00:06:30] Michelle Frechette: For next time. Yeah, that's, yeah, we mentioned it last week, didn't we? This new initiative with Marcus Burnett to, assist people get sponsored in their WordPress endeavors. That's really nice. Yeah. okay, we'll, definitely try to squeeze that in for next time. Also down there is, Tim Nash.

[00:06:46] Nathan Wrigley: Hello Tim. Hello. Tim. Normally joins us with some kind of like song or dance that I've got to do, and I haven't Oh, I have read it actually. And there isn't sufficient doo Mike concluded. In all honesty, there's, I'm sorry. No, it's fine. I'll read Tim's, out, but before you do that, there is an awful lot of bleeding behind me, and I'm very conscious that all I can hear is bleeding of sheep in our backers.

You can, bud or Michelle here, a single. I can't hear it, sadly. No, I really wish I could. Yeah. I wanna hear. Yeah. Oh, nevermind. No, it, however profoundly loud it is for you. We're not hearing. Okay. Okay. Carry on. Very good. We should do sheep impressions. okay. Here's Tim's bio written by him this week. Every few weeks Tim comes on.

WP builds and tries to do something funny or witty for a bio. Over the years, he has made Nathan Sing, read poetry, though we skipped the Did that were you meant meaning to write Vogue on there by any chance? Yes. You wrote, yeah, the Vogue on Poetry last time in the name of entertainment. It's from Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

So this week he thought, let's be serious for a minute. The world can often feel really dark and quite. Short word beginning with S. It's got four letters and it doesn't mean good. So instead of visiting his site or buying his course, he hopes you will instead reach out to someone you haven't spoken to in a while and say Hi.

Brighten up your and lovely sentiment. So off you go. Clear off everybody. Just disappear. Go and say hi to somebody. Then come back. Come back right away. that's lovely. Thank you so much for joining us, Tim. I was, it was really nice. Tim and I managed to, we sat next to each other and both had a soft drink, the other day in, in London because it was the W-P-L-V-N, the meetup that we do for the WordPress community in London.

And, we were lucky enough to spend a bit of time together. Thank you. that was great. glad And I had a hug on Saturday, so we okay. Tim and I did an arm wrestle. Beat that. Yeah. We actually didn't, but I learned a lot about Tim, I'm not gonna divulge it, but let's just say Tim. Tim has had a, a life very different to what I would have imagined, and I don't mean that in a negative way.

It was like really expansive. You've made that, that sound terrifying. Okay. Really? He almost access the dark web to find Tim's background. No, Tim's got a whole background. Which has got nothing to do with the internet really. And I just, it was fascinating. So one day, if, you corner in a room, you can get that out of him.

But it was really interesting. I was genuinely quite amazed by that. I think you need to have him on, the jukebox to tell us is That's right. yeah. I, will divulge nothing. But it's very interesting what a life you have had is all I can say. and the last one joining us today is Bud.

Bud over there. Bud joined us late and he was having terrible gremlins with his headphones and audio and video and what have you. But hopefully we're all sorted. Is everything, akay now? No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. That was good. I got you. Totally. I'm like, I'm not buying it. Oh, okay.

[00:09:56] Bud Kraus: Okay. You right. No. Hey, hello everybody, and especially Tim, because I don't think we've ever met. We've never met, we don't know each other, right? No, we've stalked each other online, but yeah, no, this is probably the first time we've. It's not like I've never seen your name before, but I, we, I know we don't know you.

I know I don't know you. So can I just say that stalking people online is not part of Tim's past? Just so that you know that is not true. That's not what I was talking about. I have what is a very long bio for Bos. Really? I truncate it a little bit, if that's alright. Yeah, you put a long bio and it may take too long, so I'm just gonna Alright.

[00:10:35] Nathan Wrigley: I'm just gonna truncate it a little bit. Sure. And Bud Kraus has been working with WordPress as an inline and on, as an in class and online instructor since, site developer and content creator for 15 years. He's been hanging around in the WordPress community even before his first talk at WordCamp New York in 27.

This is Line. Yeah, it is. and Bo hosts the Seriously Bo podcast where he has a weekly unexpected conversation with someone in the WordPress community. And you can find that at seriously, bo. Dot com. Seriously, we have to put a question mark in there, Comly. Yeah. You can't have a question mark in a, top level domain.

maybe you can, I don't know. It feels like that. No, can't. No, you really can't. I can see a source of reasons why that wouldn't work. but there's our panel. Thank you very much to the three of you for joining us. Let's see if anybody's hopped into the chat. Oh, it would seem like they have. Oh, yes.

Ryan, influence, WP is joining us from Sunny Charlotte. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. He doesn't have the AC on. It's hotter than it is in the uk and he is what are they complaining about? Yeah. what the heck? Yeah. Paul HPE from Letchworth, it says in Letchworth Garden City in the uk says, good afternoon.

From what feels like the center of the Sun's core, we're such a, we've known about the cold in the winter, the heat in the summer, the lack of a good summer. we love the weather in the uk. Thank you very much, Paul. That's brilliant. Tim Nash is obviously joining us as a couple of comments there.

And Michelle, Tammy Lister. Hello, welcome to the, you see, she's another UK person straight in on the weather. welcome to the hottest day of the year. I have a nice lolly. Oh, that's nice. That's lovely. Guys. Guys, how hot is it? A crazy hot, it's 20 degrees, so that's really, it's 78 degrees, man.

[00:12:29] Bud Kraus: Honestly, I know that. The thing is, we're just not set up for stuff like extreme cold. We're not set up for, so our systems all collapse when it snows. Even like a single snowflake falls, the entire rail network goes away. And, and in the summer when it gets slightly above com, the normal level of comfortable, we all know because we don't, nobody has air conditioning units because it's just not, they're not typically worth the investment.

[00:12:54] Nathan Wrigley: You, you know that your country is older than ours, right? So you should have had this infrastructure a long time ago. We should have done, but we just don't have the climate to justify the air con units. Okay. So Michelle's, an i lolly, yeah, you call them popsicles. So it's basically like watery.

You just like a. frozen fruit juice. Exactly. I call you that. Yeah, that. what do you call a popsicle then? Oh, because a popsicle here is like a sweet that you pop up, but it's like a it's like, crystallized. Those are called push pops. Push pop. Okay. I'm so glad we are covering all the important stuff at the beginning.

It's great's. I love this. I love all this. This is the best bit of the show. Tammy's come back with. Also, UK heat is different because of humidity and no air con. Yes, Tammy, preach it. the humidity here is brutal. So that's all we can say. James low is joining us. Hello. Good morning. He says, I see that Tim has deployed the UK ac, but yeah, this is it.

He's opened the window and he's afraid that the, yeah, the sheep are out there making a lot of noise. Good afternoon, says Elliot. So good. Elliot, could I ask you to check your direct messages on Blue Sky please? 'cause I've sent you, I've sent you a message about two weeks ago and I haven't had a reply yet.

And, you've probably never logged into, literally walk down the street and knock on his door. Yeah, I really could. For him to respond in Blue Sky. It just occurred to me. Yeah, I just saw his name and I thought, oh yeah, there's that thing that I wrote. Tim's back. I have, it's pretty in effect. Oh, okay.

It's a breeze. We got the, the whole thing about windows and things like that. Where can we go now? Michelle from James Lau. It's a very, gave a very moving talk this past weekend. Tears accepted. I cried for the first time ever. I cried in my own stock. Oh, good. A word. You can tell us about that in a minute.

Happy tears. Happy tears. I promise we will get to that. Jackson, who was also at the W-P-L-D-N Meetup, he says Chow from a very Sonny Bright, and I'm sure it is over there. Steve Burge has fallen foul of this. Platform's, inability to show emojis. hand pink waving. Let's, we can imagine what that is, from Rainy, rainy Florida.

Aha. Got the one day of the year where we eclipse your weather. 77 degrees in Boston. da. I think we've got it. Okay, here we go. Last one. You guys are getting our recent heat wave from last week. Boston hit 102 Fahrenheit. Oh yeah, that is a lot. 30. We hit a hundred here as well. Can I just say that's the most precise, that's the most precise 38.89.

Yeah. 38.89. That's very, I think that's more to do with the fact that Boston hit 102. Oh, okay. Not, but he was sitting there going. 38.8. Yeah. Pleasure. Oh look, he's 102. That's really easy number to Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And maybe it does map on some conversion system. That's actually what it is. and then brilliant.

You see my prayers answered, Elliot, I'll have a look. I've not been on blue sky for a while. Elliot, don't answer him on blue sky. Walk down the street, knock on his door and go, no, he's not. What did you want? It's like a good, 30 minute drive, which in the uk, my goodness is halfway across the country, right?

We really should get to some stock. Okay, let's do that very, quickly. We've spent nearly 20 minutes doing that. So first thing to say, this is our website, WP build.com. If you like what we do and you'd like to be informed when we have pushed out an episode, just put your email address in here.

And we'll send you two emails a week, typically one when this show, basically, we're recording this show now and it gets pushed out as an audio podcast tomorrow morning. and as, we've got to record it with the four of us, I thought many, years ago, why not just do it live at the same time? 'cause it's, it's much nicer that way.

So that's what we're doing it for. So we'll get an email about that, but then also I'll send you an email about the Thursday podcast, which we do on a weekly basis. Every Thursday we drop a an episode, and this is what the archive for that looks like. You can see that in the more recent past. I've talked to Brad Williams about, theme Switcher Pro.

Talked to, Bob Dom about well do the Woo and Open channels and his podcasting journey. And then this last week, this is really worth looking at. Actually, I com commend this to you. very good. It's called Independent Analytics and it's a WordPress plugin, which is a bit of a direct swap out for, Google Analytics only.

It stores all the bits and pieces in your WordPress database. So you'd be the owner of that data with all of the caveats that go with that. But it, I installed it and how to play. It's really credible. There's an awful lot of stuff in there. They've been in the market for ages, but they haven't been shouting about themselves.

And, so this was the first bit of kind of podcasty media content that they've done. And, if you, like the look of it, then they've actually out the blue gave me a coupon code the other day. You can get 10% off if you like the look of it. With this code here. You imagine WP Builds is the code, so maybe go and check it out.

It's certainly worth looking at. Okay. That is that, The other thing to mention is that I, as I said a minute ago, Tim and I were both at the WordPress. the, I've gotta be careful about the way I phrase this these days. W-P-L-D-N-A WordPress Meetup for the WordPress community, if you like something along those lines.

we have them at the end of each month on a Thursday, and Tim was there for the last one. We're looking for some speakers to round out the year, and if you fancy, if you're in the London kind of area or you're willing to travel in, it's a great event. Last year's was great. Tim basically was relegating into a corner to mark all of the quizzes.

Thank you, Tim. I've got a nice picture of you looking like a teacher with this stack of papers to Mark. we gave an iPad away, which was really nice. Who won it? Yeah. who did win it? Who was the winner? I can't remember now. It was, chap from nimbus snell hosting.com. That's right. Yeah. Nice. Thank you.

Yeah, it was nice. He was in the room. You have to be in the room if you wanna actually walk away with it. So multiple dips would happen, but his name came out first, and we did a quiz and we did some silly awards as well. And it was all a bit of a laugh, but we're returning to the normal schedule of having speakers to speakers.

And so if you fancy, giving us your knowledge, this is the place to go. It's wpdn uk slash speak, wpdn uk slash speak. And we've got quite a few slots open and we would very much welcome, your contribution in person events. It's definitely an in. Yeah, you need to be In. Yeah. Either willing to get to London somehow, or obviously living in London already.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So there's the first bit. Now, as per Michelle's suggestion, a few months ago, what we're doing now with this show is if the guests bring anything that they wanna draw the attention of the audience to, we're doing those at the top of the show so that they actually happen as opposed to being forgotten about at the end.

So here we go. The first view are gonna be coming from the, the, repository of Tim Nash. What's this one, Tim? I can see the title. expiration notification Service has ended. This is from Let's Encrypt, tell us more. So this is more a public service announcement than anything else. let's Encrypt is there's a reasonable chance that if you have a website, that, and it's got a, a TLS or SSL certificate, that it's actually underneath being powered by.

[00:20:16] Tim Nash: Lets encrypts most hosting companies these days use Lets encrypt under the hood. But if you manage your own, lets Encrypt setup. you might have been regularly getting an email that says your, certificate has been renewed. Your certificate has failed. Your certificate has been renewed. They've probably been coming into your inbox for years, and you've probably ignoring them.

I guess the good news is they're not coming into your inbox anymore because they're turning off that service, okay? Where they notify you, when something's due to expire and when something has expired. It's worth just spending a second to say what scale this is at because this is like millions upon millions of certificates and that means millions upon millions of emails.

Oh, they've also had to hold this DA that data. So they have all these email addresses, and so from Let's Gripps point of view, they're like, we don't need these email addresses. We can get rid of them. That's good. We don't want these email addresses and we don't need to be clogging up everybody's inboxes.

Everything's, we're now in a place where this is, it's such a robust system that actually we only care about failures anyway. So they're, they are slowly, sunset the whole experience. if you rely on those emails for some reason, for example, if you've got a system which forwards that email on and it does something else, you just need to know about it.

But otherwise, I thought it was mainly to highlight, wow, what an amazing job they do. So do you remember when this kind of all rolled out? I honestly, I don't remember the number of years. I'm gonna say eight or nine years, or maybe a decade ago. Keep going. Yeah. Decade. Decade, yeah. Wow. And the whole faf, the, and getting a certificate was, and getting the, the relevant pieces of that certificate and finding the place in, I don't know, a c panel or something like that, where it would go and binding it to the different bits of your website, which you wanted to encrypt.

[00:22:09] Nathan Wrigley: So maybe the cart page or something like that. It was a right old faf. And then this thing came along and I remember the promise was. You'll just click a button and thinking, woo. And how much will it cost? No, it won't cost anything. Ooh, even better. And now everybody using it and because everybody's using it, like you say, millions of unnecessary emails from their point of view, probably quite costly, I would've thought to, send That Let's Encrypt is in, is entirely supported through donations.

[00:22:37] Tim Nash: And there are organizations be who, provide, volunteer the infrastructure as well. So while it might not be a direct cost, just the, saving on. Infrastructure overall and to the environment. Because if you imagine how many emails, they can just stop, they're just, that's an immediate saving for the environment as well.

So it is a really good thing and we don't need them. Yeah, I don't want another email. I'm happy. And if you do want them, there are services that still do this and you can still monitor, they still have their API endpoints. They still, you can still actually just interrogate your own site and say, boy, when's my certificate gonna expire?

'cause So there's still plenty of ways for you to get that information. You just. Don't get it in an email anymore. Yeah, I think a lot of the, like the op time monitoring tools will provide you with this kind of stuff, as out of the box. So if you are monitoring your website, there's probably a tick box somewhere to be notified about things like this.

[00:23:32] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So that was really timely. Thank you very much for giving us that one. And then we move on to this one. Which, like the headline, so this is a regular newspaper in the uk. It's not a tech journalist paper. and it's called The Guardian. And the headline is quite shocking. Maybe it's not as bad as that, but more than 25% of UK businesses hit by cyber attack in the last year report.

Finds what? Why did you bring this to our attention apart from that alone? apart, I, love that whenever something says more than 25%, which you take to meaning, it's not 26%, is it's somewhere some number between 25 and 26, according to, James Lau, it's 25.38%. There we go. It's got the precise data.

That's good. Yeah. Yeah. The main reason highlighting this is just to highlight that this covers all a whole range of what. Loosely can be defined as cyber attacks from, not being able to have access to your, banking because a, your bank has been having an issue through to your site being compromised through to, I don't know, your Bluetooth enabled toilet roll dispenser not working because it's been hacked.

[00:24:47] Tim Nash: Done. Yeah. Or, it doesn't just include cyber as in online as in your website, but it's still a shocking statistic and it is a, I think more shocking is that every, the, within the article it talks about how people are like, yeah, this is happening and we're scared about it, and what are you doing about it?

Nothing. Okay. So I thought it was great. I thought it was a really good article. Just to give a little bit of a prompt. this is one of those articles you accidentally leave on your screen when you screen share with one of your clients. they just see it there, just to give, or you probably can't just hand it straight to them, but if you just leave it around, lying around for them to see, that might give them a little bit of a, nudge that actually you should probably do more than going, yeah, this is gonna be a problem.

Can I ask you a question? And this is apropos of nothing. It's certainly not WordPress, but it, is right in your wheelhouse. So Tim, obviously, as we didn't say in the bio at the beginning, his, background is very much internet security, but WordPress is obviously the niche that he's in here. like more or less, everything these days is connected to a computer.

[00:25:57] Nathan Wrigley: my banking system is inextricably connected to computers, more or less all the transactions that I do involving money and all of that kind of thing. And it, did, it does periodically occur to me like, if somebody, if some malicious actor, state level, let's go with that, decided that they really wanted to just take us out.

Is, that a credible threat, or is that just such pie in the sky nonsense, or do you, does that kind of stuff concern you as well? And so I'm talking here about a blanket, and I'm gonna use the word nuclear, which is obviously slightly different context, but do you know what I mean? Would it be possible to wipe out all the things in one hit?

[00:26:36] Tim Nash: so the way the internet work is meant in theory to be decentralized, but to me, whenever you decentralize something and you federate it or make it spread everything out, they still have to interact and talk to each other. And you end up with these like nexus. So these points that become points of failure, and we have that in, for example, our DNS system.

So how DNS works, we have points of failure there. How, and how domain names work, things like ICAN and similar, our single points of failure. We also have large waves of infrastructure that have grouped together. So we see it all the time. If you, if some AWS Amazon web services, they're, east and west coast data centers.

If one of those goes out, you know about it. 'cause half the internet seems to be offline. Yeah. If CloudFlare have an issue, you suddenly know about it. So it really is a case of you don't need to take out that much. To destabilize an awful lot of things. Yeah. You only need to target three or four places.

and you could do that pretty effectively if you were a state level actor. Ultimately, you could also just cut cables and Cause Yeah, exactly. Cut the cable across the Atlantic course. I guess what I'm, what as occurred to me occasionally more recently, was that a cat, Michelle? I hope it was a cat.

[00:27:58] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. there was a cat just wandered into the picture there. The, is, our reliance on it really. And the fact that we now trust it in, it, we regard it as completely immutable. It's almost like a human right. It's gonna be there, it will never fail. So the little occurrences where it does fail are really shocking.

But that whole idea of like systemic collapse where it all fails. especially in, this country, probably in, the US I'm sure is the case as well. Really, all the things have gone online. just my subscription to the gym is online. My shopping is all done online. if not, if I go and buy things in person, I'm still using a, phone or something equivalent to pay with it.

So it is that, it's the fact that all of it is connected kind of concerns me and it, feels like we've gone all in. But isn't it actually even, I'm sure you're right, Nathan, but it's broader than that. when you think about it, it's the stoplights, it's the, I mean it's all the safety infrastructure we have, it's everything.

[00:28:57] Bud Kraus: It isn't just the stuff that, It's, yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. imagine taking out just all the safety infrastructure across the United States, or a large portion of it. Wow. Yeah. And this is happy side with Tim. Yeah, Tim, you were just moaning about me not providing a doom. And you only week where your bio doesn't prophesy doom is the week where I bring it in space.

[00:29:21] Nathan Wrigley: Let's move on. there, we go. 25% of all UK businesses have apparently been hit by, a cyber attack. However, I felt like staying with the Guardian, because they're obviously onto the doom treadmill at the moment. I just thought this was quite an interesting one and again, really illustrates how, our stuff is all in the cloud to some extent.

I, I won't pause the article particularly, but basically this article is saying internet users advise to change passwords after 16 billion logins exposed. we have no idea whether those 16 billion logins is one person not registering to 16 billion sites, or if it's 16 billion people registering to, one site.

And I. Cool. I chose to read that as six 16 bazillion. Oh, okay. In the, it's really big, But the point, I think what they're basically trying to say is, we don't know how many of those passwords are overlapping from different services, but it, really what they're saying is just be mindful of this.

this stuff can leak. The repository came online for a little while and then the, somebody was able to download it. It's a bit of scare. Mon Greg, really there. I'm sure there's not enough details, just to emphasize that 16 billion logins can't be from one single source. No, that's, yeah. When, someone says, oh, the vast majority of mysite bots, when you have more logins than people on the planet, it's probably a hint.

Yeah, that's true source. Anyway. Be, mindful out there. somebody is definitely willing to steal your password if you can. So there's two things from the Guardian. Let's move on. Let's go to this one. This is very much WordPress, right? We're right into the we. Oh, no. sorry. Michelle, what did you have?

There was one that you wanted me to mention before we get into this. Oh, I just wanted to talk about the fact that we have so many fewer word camps happening right now. I just attended Word Camp Montclair saw, I saw Bud there, with somebody else's name tag. I don't know who he was this weekend, but oh boy.

[00:31:21] Michelle Frechette: he was able to join us with, towards, because I crash. That's why I crashed. Word, Camp Montclair. Did you? He did. You just stuck. Don't say it out loud.

But there were, some no shows. He just picked up a badge. It was not good. Nice. Nice. but, it was my first word camp in North America for this year, and it was almost July. And I, in other years I might have been to five or six already. just within driving distance of where I live.

And so the fact that it was the first one, it really just really speaks to the fact that, number one, we're doing fewer and fewer of those ki kinds of events since COVID. I think it's really been hard to bring comeback here in the, in North America. And then, and I can only speak to North America because I know Spain and India are like going like gangbusters with the events right now.

But, but here it's become more and more difficult, which means that if I want to attend them, it's a more expensive endeavor for me to do that, right? Because I am independent right now and everything is coming out of my own pocket unless a company wants to sponsor me to attend, which hopefully they will.

The fact that it's, there was a hundred, almost 150 people there this weekend. I did get to speak, I did cry at my talk because it was, I moved myself, let's just say that I was very happy tears, about the work that underrepresented Head Tech has been doing over the years and the people who've partnered with me.

[00:32:53] Bud Kraus: Yeah. But it's, just, there's not a there and there are more events that are not, that are WordPress adjacent or WordPress tangential. Yeah. That isn't even, like I, I spoke at Color Code earlier this year. I at Tested Press. I attended Press Conf, some conf is coming up. we have WordPress Accessibility Day, WP Accessibility Day online every year.

[00:33:14] Michelle Frechette: So there's a lot of events that are happening, just not necessarily official word camps, but Michelle, let's just face it, word camp. The word camp model in the United States is dead. It made it really, we need to move on and reinvent what it is that we need when we get together. And we do start together.

[00:33:35] Bud Kraus: I've just got comment on, I think that depends though. I've got a comment on the screen. Sorry. Just ever so quickly. Tammy is saying that, the UK hasn't got one. Tim and I were saying before we hit record, it was roughly this time last year, so 12 months since the previous one. And, and I wonder if the appetite is there.

[00:33:54] Nathan Wrigley: I wonder if the people that fell away, were maybe some of the more crucial people. And what I mean by that is the people that were involved in so fell away during COVID, I wonder if they were in some way the people that were doing all of the, difficult work organizing and making them happen.

And so when those crucial people went away, they just didn't exist. Maybe the appetite is there for attendees, but the organizers are not. I'm with you in a bit, in a way, bud. I, don't mean that it's a dead idea, but I do wonder if it's as popular as it once was. And the other thing is the term word camp, right?

[00:34:34] Bud Kraus: right off the bat, every time I explain, I have to, I always have to say what that means. That is a marketing problem right there. It's a ridiculous thing. I have to explain. Word camps are WordPress events, are already, you're behind the eight ball. Yeah. But you have to do that for any tech camp, really.

[00:34:51] Michelle Frechette: Any tech event. I'm going to Cloud Fest. What's a Cloud fest? Are you talking about the environment? No, we're talking about cloud. Cloud hosting. So any tech event you have to explain to non-tech people, but I think, yeah, but what's the purpose of a word camp? Is it just for techie people to get, or a broader range of people who use WordPress who don't know anything about camps?

but that's still a tech person there. You still centered around technology. We had this idea. Oh, sorry. You can, I'm agreeing though. I'm also agreeing though that we do have a marketing issue around it, but because I think that what we've done, so we have the flagship events, that have come into play more in the last 10 years.

And prior to that we also had. Just more, a lot more localized events. And then the localized events started to try to look like the flagship events. And that's wrong because you can't run 150 word person cam. And expect it to be like, a flagship event because we're not going to attract the, casual users, the everyday users, the new users.

We're only going to continue to attract the people who are, for lack of a better term, insiders to the whole thing. And so we have to be really careful about how we do that and how we encourage other people. I am doing tiktoks now for wordpress.org, and I had posted something on there and said, Mont, Montclair, somebody had seen something about one of the camps in Europe and she said, there's.

There used to be one in New York City, was there ever gonna be another one again? And I responded and said, oh, word Camp Montclair is this weekend. She went online, she found it. She registered two days before and she came and I met her face to face. Because we were able to reach people through TikTok.

But how did we not, how did she not know about it? She's a WordPress or she's, all over the place and she had not seen this. So what are we doing to make sure that we encourage, people to see the fact that these events are happening? It's not enough to put it in the dashboard. People who are using WordPress on a regular basis don't read their dashboard when they log in.

We log in for a purpose to fix and to add and to do those things. So we're very seldom looking at that first screen that says, oh, by the way, there's some events coming up in your area. Bob, can I just say, I've muted your microphone because we were getting quite a lot of feedback. I wonder if it's possible for you to chuck some headphones in the, mix.

[00:37:08] Nathan Wrigley: thank you. that would be great. We were getting, I think, just echoes of voices and things like that, so ch chuck em in and give, I can hear myself back little, a little bit. Yeah. Give us a thumb, give us a thumbs up when you've, when you've done that and I'll see if it's all working. Oh, so yeah, I do, agree that there's a better, there's an issue with marketing.

we'll find out in a moment. It was periodic. Sometimes it was worse than others. But anyway, let's assume that it's gonna be working. Yeah. So there we are. So that was what Michelle was gonna bring to bear. This is, I dunno if this is related. It's certainly there's some overlap I guess.

this is a piece on the make.wordpress.org, website and it's by Jonathan Deros. published just a few days ago, five days ago, and it's called a little Late Spring Cleaning. You may, if you are involved in the, WordPress Slack, you may have woken up just the other day to get a few notifications to say that things that you might have signed up to, channels that you might have subscribed to were no more.

And, that was part of what we're talking about here. I'll just read quickly. Following up on the codified criteria for a repository to live under the WordPress organization on GitHub, a comprehensive audit of all repositories under both WordPress and bbPress, GitHub organizations has been conducted.

To support this effort, every repository was cataloged in a spreadsheet along with metadata to assess, which met the established criteria. This includes factors such as ongoing maintenance, alignment with active wordpress.org team or initiative, and whether the repository serves a continuing purpose. And as a result of that, a bunch of repositories, have been archived.

I can't quite tell you how many it looks to be about. I'm gonna go for about 20, something like that. so for example, it's block theme examples was one contributor, covenant was another one. Gutenberg's starter theme Matrix bots and a bunch more. They were all archived, but it didn't quite stop there 'cause that was obviously those.

Then we, a bunch of plugins were closed. Similar idea, I won't bother reading it out, but, ones that haven't been receiving some attention have been gotten rid of things like background image, cropper, lazy loading, memory bump, and a few more. There's probably about 10 or 12 there, something like that. And as I mentioned, the a bunch of channel, in fact, many, channels were archived.

I reckon there's about 30 odd something. Oh yeah, there, it says that 30 channels were archived, including things like, oh, I don't know, media, core council ops, core tiny MCE core site maps, and a whole bunch of others. they've now gone. I dunno if the panel have any thoughts on that, but there it is.

It has now happened, so there you go. Any thoughts or shall we move on? Okay. In which case, a pruning of the, WordPress stuff, apropos of nothing really, except that Jonathan Deia wrote that piece. I thought, why not? I, did a podcast episode with Jonathan and Joe Dolson, which got released this week.

So that's the only, I just call you to, Tammy's comment I think is, pertinent for, oh yeah, I think I missed that. Yeah. Okay. I'll just pop that up quickly. for context, they were all checked by Jonathan with teams not just closed. It had a lot of diligence. Yeah. Sorry, I maybe didn't, draw on that too much.

I mentioned what It's okay. Just wanted to make sure people heard that. Yeah. Thank you. sure. So yeah, Jonathan, and Joe Dolson and I sat down, at Word Camp Europe the other day and we had, a fine discussion about whether or not accessibility should become the domain of a canonical plugin as opposed to, something that would involve shipping in core.

And if you don't know what a canonical plugin. Probably you'll get more out of that conversation by listening to the first couple of minutes 'cause we explain what all of that is. But that was a really interesting conversation and keeping that thread going just for a teeny, tiny bit of time. So that was Jonathan.

There's two bits there. I just wanna mention Joe a second time because Joe, has this, which is, called Able Player. And, he's recently taken a custodianship, is that even a word? He's taken custody of able player, which is, a video player, media player, but primarily video player. But Joe's background is on accessibility, so the endeavor is to make this the most accessible player on the internet.

he's taken it over and he's doing a lot of updating. He's in that process where he wants to hear from people about what needs updating, but he has begun that process. And, so I thought I'd just give that a quick shout. He's just shipped his first version, I think 4.6 0.0. So it's, it isn't directly a WordPress thing, but I, like Joe.

So I thought we'd quickly mention that. I don't suppose anybody has anything to add there. If they do, I will pause quickly. No. Okay. In which case, not that one. I want to go to this one. So we were speaking about whether things should be canonical plugins or in core Felix s who is a Googler. he's been working with WordPress for many, years, 10 years at least.

contributing to core, presumably quite a lot more time before that. He is involved a lot with performance, with the performance team, things like that. And, he's written a piece which I just thought was really nice. He 10 lessons learned from 10 years contributing to WordPress call. It's on the Felix hyphen s me blog.

And I'll just quickly, just go through what is. Top 10 items are, and the reason that this made it in was just 'cause I just resonate with all of this. So very much. Having spoken to Felix a few times, I, really like him as an individual, but all of these things that he's written down made make me think, yeah, we didn't cover any of this when we spoke, but just really nice.

So here's his top 10 tips to being a good person, in the WordPress community. And, yeah, contributing. So the first one was communicate and communicate well. I think we can understand what that means. Assume good intent. I think this is in the world of 2025. This, one seems to be sorely lacking, not just in the WordPress space.

in fact, I think really the WordPress space is a pretty good example of doing this over and over again. But we do seem to be lacking this empathy. But I think that's lovely. Just assume that people are gonna do the right thing and then if it doesn't turn out, then you can draw different conclusions.

Be persistent. Then he caveats that with as long as it's appropriate. So just basically keep going, which I think is lovely. Pay attention to the detail. I clearly am not a core committer. I won't even ever get close to that. But I imagine you are a core committer. This one is utterly crucial. Think it's scale.

I've never really encapsulated that one in my head. I just assume that these people, that's how they behave. But I guess you've gotta have some sort of mind shift into not thinking about your own environment and the things that you are doing. Thinking at scale. Increase scope gradually. Don't do it all at once.

Find your niche. This, I guess is the thing. Joe Dolson is the accessibility person or one of many, that's his niche. Felix's performance. So you know, find your thing, be helpful, adapt well, and then finally build personal relationships. And I think really he's left this one. To the end. 'cause he does go into it in quite a, long way and he is basically saying, you do get a lot out of going to things like word camps, fostering personal relationships.

That's where the real value comes. You just do everything via Slack or you just do everything via Zoom calls or what have you. It's probably not gonna be as effective anyway, I don't know if you've, any of you have got anything to say about that, but it was a nice community piece and I would commend anybody to read what Felix said there.

So over to you if you want to add anything. I'm meeting with him in about an hour, a little more than an hour to, interview him for one of my podcasts. So I'm excited to, I think you will find a conversation. Him. Yep. A very, thoughtful individual. Yeah. He's one of these people. He's delightful person.

He turn, he'll turn up to the podcast incredibly well prepared. I do shared show notes and, Felix fills them out, let's put it that way. There's much detail has gone into his head before he joins you on the mic. So anyway, there we go. okay, so this is a, this, honestly, I didn't know really anything about this, but this one kind of captured my attention.

I dunno how much we want to dig into this one. This is over at the repository and it's probably the longest piece that I've seen from Ray. So Ray Moray, who writes the repository, it's one of the longest pieces that I've seen come from the repository in a very, long time. So there is far too much for us to say, but the, headline kind of sums it up.

Word Camp Asia 2026 Handover sparks tensions between organizers and Word Camp Central. I'll try and summarize it. Essentially the story goes a bit like this. in 2025, we obviously had Word Camp in, word Camp Asia, in Manila. And then it was announced that, the, at the end of that Word camp, it's announced what the next one is, and it was announced that Mumbai in India was gonna be the next one.

So it turns out that behind the scenes it might have been in Japan. it might not have been anywhere at all because it seems like quite a few of the organizers were feeling a little bit burnt out and a little bit sidelined and marginalized. So there was even a suggestion that 2026 was just skipped altogether.

Yeah. However, on scene hands I think got involved. And the, sort of accusation, maybe that's the wrong word, maybe that's too strong a word. The accusation is that kind of Mumbai was, just selected, just arbitrarily selected by somebody somewhere. And you can imagine the sort of disagreements that might come as a result of that.

So there, there's a lot. There is an awful lot here. but it would appear that the word Camp Asia. Whole enterprise is not the sort of smooth sailing ship. That certainly from my perspective when I showed up, it looked like, so there's a definite simmering of discontent and disagreement about the way things have been done and handled.

And let's just hope that event does carry on and that it's a success, in Mumbai. I'm sure that you guys maybe have read this one, I don't know, but if you didn't, do you have any thoughts on it? Or even if you did. So let's go. Let's go with Tim. Let's go with Tim first and then, I was gonna link this back to the previous.

[00:47:45] Tim Nash: Piece Michelle was talking about. And the, so I very much have come to the conclusion that we, the big events were Camp Europe. Were Camp Asia and were, Camp US shouldn't exist or should be not Word camps. I think almost the exact opposite to Bud. I think Word camps are grassroots events organized by small volunteers who are passionate about something and they should be allowed to do what the hell they like, organize how they like and just be let loose to do what they need to do for their communities.

These big events, they need all large organizational teams. They need lots of money. They need, there is a level of professionalism that is very different and we lump this onto a bunch of volunteers. Who burnout get stressed and then hand over to somebody else to burn out and get stressed. And it makes no real sense.

It's just we lose any, gain you get from those two years of being a Word camp lead is lost immediately the following year. We wipe that, the slate key. Absolutely. They move from country to country, so there's not as, there is very little of the, some of the playbook can be handed down quite often, especially for Word Camp Asia, I imagine they lose an awful lot of that playbook has to be thrown out and restarted because there is completely, you are in a completely different country with a different set of cultural norms, different set of infrastructure, and a completely different team on the ground.

So it may, it doesn't make sense to try and use that mo that try and use the old work camp model with these events. And we've got all these smaller word camps trying to emulate those, but their model doesn't work for them either. So I'd much rather see that we got rid of Word Camp. Insert big name, give it a whole new name, turn it into a professional conference if you want to.

But it doesn't seem, it, but it feels like we're putting, we should just not have volunteers running those conferences. Yeah. Or if you have them as an advisory panel to dictate the direction, but not necessarily doing the hands to hands running, of course, that does mean they need to be funded in some way, and whether that means that those big word camps have to have an increase in ticket price, bringing in more sponsors.

I don't know how that works, but I feel like the immense amount of pressure. I, if someone asked me, told me, oh, I'm gonna volunteer to do a, word camp, one of these big word camps, I would probably, I have taken someone to one side and gone, are you sure that's what you want to do? And when they, because.

It's not necessarily good for you to be doing that on top of a full-time job on top of X, Y, and Z. So yeah, I'm not surprised to see the, and I've read through the article and obviously there's lots of other stuff. There's lots of interpersonal stuff going on. There is of course the shadowy hand from, of unknown people fiddling with things which, but to move something forward that doesn't necessarily even needed to have been moved forward.

So I think reform is needed in some form, in some way with these bigger events. And I think if we can do that, we actually are then freeing up the smaller events to go back to what they should be, which is the grassroots community events. Yeah. Network camps be that, let these fly off and be monstrous conferences on their own.

[00:51:17] Nathan Wrigley: Bob, you do wanna say something? Oh, sorry, Michelle. I think Bob, this idea of organizer burnout is so true. I know it's probably stating the obvious, but COVID really killed a lot of this stuff because I was about to be for the third time, speaker Wrangler or whatever, an organizer at WordCamp.

[00:51:38] Bud Kraus: New York, which was pretty successful, and then COVID and not just, and then that, and this has happened to word camps everywhere. That, that, that cohesion the talent, it just dissipated. And then there's and then there is burnout. I don't wanna do this anymore and I'm just too old for it, but other people do it.

But, I, don't have any really good way to segue into this, but look at work camp. This year. Does anybody have any ideas on how that can be rescued, for lack of a better word? given that we're so close now to it? wow. It is. When you, do you mean in terms of attendees? 'cause that was everything.

Okay. I'm not, yeah, I'm talking about, and I'm not knocking the sponsors 'cause the organizers 'cause they're all new. that's a whole nother issue. I know that they're getting advice from I got, but, what can be done? Does anybody have an idea of what can be done to increase sponsorship, increase attendance?

everybody, I'm talking to a lot of people that normally go, they say, I. I don't know why I would go, I'm going, but I'm also questioning why I'm going. So it's just yeah, it's depressing, is what I'm saying. Yeah, I get it. So Tcho was just saying, basically what the heck, yeah. we're talking about, word camps and in particular the, piece in the repository, which has described the, sort of, I don't wanna use the word chaos, but there seems to be a fair little bit of chaos around the, event for 2026 and what have you.

[00:53:23] Nathan Wrigley: and prior to that, we were having a discussion about whether or not word camps themselves, maybe Tim was suggesting that Tim, that the word camps ought to be given a free reign and the. The word big word camps. The flagship events ought to be, more corporate or just more professional inverted comm where the staff all get paid or you hire an agency in to just run the whole thing or something like that.

Yeah, that's interesting. It's really, interesting. I do not know, what the answer is in all honesty, but it would be a shame. I like that idea. Yeah. I like the idea for the flagships to be professionally run, but wouldn't you have to have a commensurate fee attached to it? going up from, I don't know, let's say 60 US dollars or something like that, that they are at the moment.

I'm imagining you're more into the sort of four, $500 level if, yeah. So that might make the attendee just shrink beyond all, worse. I don't know, Michelle, you wanted to crack in I think. I was gonna say that, that yes, there's a WordPress. Issue as far as, some of these Campa tenants.

[00:54:36] Michelle Frechette: But I think that we see this year, a lot of people that normally would come from outside of the United States are not wanting to travel to the United States, given our current political environment. Part of that's part of it. and you hear about people who are not brown people, because we know that internally it's a very much a minority, brown skinned, dark, darker skinned person issue that we have here in the United States with our current administration.

But people who are white people coming into the United States on vacation visas and things like that have been denied entry because of social media posts and things like that. yeah. Yeah. and it's not just a, it's, not just that. I think I heard this kind of thing as opposed to, I know people who have been denied and whose vacations were completely thwarted because of this, and others who are canceling because they were worried about.

Coming all the way here, spending all the money and not being allowed entrance into the United States. So I, read something, wanna registered that as well as part of the issue. That's an interesting point. It's just a WordPress issue. It's def absolutely. A United States political issue right now too.

Yeah, it's, I read something, in, I can't remember where. And so again, cavi mTOR, I think it was probably from a social media platform. So I don't know the validity of it. May, maybe you can confirm or deny it. Maybe you've seen the same thing. And it was, this piece was saying that. In the future, if you do wanna cross, the, border, the administration at the border of the us you might have to have unlocked social media accounts.

[00:56:04] Nathan Wrigley: So you would have to be, so let's say for example, your phone was opened up either by you or somebody got into your phone, the requirement then would also be able to access your social media account. oh no, it was different to that. It's that they would, you, your social media account must be public.

[00:56:24] Tim Nash: Public so that they can previously already have a look at it. Great. Okay. So it's not a question of looking in the back end of your account and see, right? It's more that you can't have a social media account that's private. Wouldn't you imagine that in that scenario people will just go that little extra mile and just delete everything prior to getting on the plane?

we imagine you having that conversation with a lovely agent regardless of where it is in the world, and you are there going, yeah, Twitter. Yeah, I deleted that. Yeah. Oh, why do you not, did you, why? Yeah. Dunno, I did it years ago. Let's go to the way back machine, shall we, Mr. Nash? Yes. And you can see where that conversation is gonna go, which leaves you into a really, it does lead into a really awkward position.

'cause somebody may well have deleted it for various reasons. And there are absolutely loads of reasons why the vast majority of private, let's say Twitter accounts are private and should remain that way. Okay? Okay. And you don't want them public. And what do you do if you want to go on holiday? it's a really odd position.

[00:57:24] Nathan Wrigley: Speaking of that, here's, Paul. HPE says, I'm off to the US on vacation in two weeks and I would really like to get in. Yeah, no kidding. Be a bit of a blow, wouldn't it? Getting to the US on holiday and then just going home. To be fair, I don't think it's a widespread issue. I think it's very much a case by case issue and I don't think it, we're seeing it in droves, and I think there is some fear mongering around it, but I think it's keeping ticket sales down right now.

So that's an added piece into the wrinkle of the whole thing. Absolutely. so Tammy's just, yeah, confirming what Tim said. This is a public thing. You have to have your account, public and, okay. So there we go. And it apparently, I think that's the, in fact, okay, let's move on slightly, unless any of you three have something to add, but, I'll just raise this on the screen.

So this is Isot, I'm gonna say it wrong. There. There you go. You see I got it wrong. So what, Michelle just said. the incident response team. Yeah. Sorry. I'm so bad with names. The incident response team is looking for new members. So I dunno if there's some kind of overlap here between the story that we had a moment ago and, and what have you.

If you read the repository story, there might be some indications that maybe there is a bit of an overlap. If you read it from top to bottom. the incident response team, you may well not know about it. Again, I didn't know that this thing existed. We're expanding the incident response team IRT, and are looking for new contributors.

The mission of the IRT is to provide a clear channel for community members to report and address incidents. They violate the WordPress community Code of Conduct, ensuring safe and respectful environment for all participants. If you are committed to fostering a respectful community and have experience in community moderation, community, conflict resolution, gosh, DEIB practices, we'd love to hear from you.

And there is a button right here which leads you to this form and you obviously have to declare your WordPress username and things like that where you are based. And there's a bunch of questions drilling down to all of that. I didn't even know this team was a thing. I dunno, who do you.

[00:59:31] Michelle Frechette: How do, who do you think pro when you report a code of conduct violation, where does that go? Yeah, exactly. Now I know, just ask a very simplistic question. Why would anybody wanna be involved in this? I applied. There you go. You ask directly, Michelle, let's have the answer. I don't know, so I am very much committed to a very fair and. Okay, working community where we have mutual respect for one another. I have not to, to my knowledge, I've not broken any codes of conduct, but I've had people break a code of conduct against me and I was on the receiving end of some fair negativity and I didn't even report it, but others who were within an earshot did.

And so I was able to see what that looked like from the perspective of somebody who has been, I don't wanna say victimized 'cause it makes it sound like I was, beaten and left in an alley. But basically the recipient of the code of conduct violation and Having seen what that looks like, having known what it feels like to be the person who has had some negative things said about them in a public forum, literally in person public forum, Makes me want to make sure that for others who experience the same thing, that there is a form of justice and that we are listening, we are conferring with the person who's been injured and that we're working with people who break codes of conduct to understand how to work within the community. And if that means censoring them or, putting some kind of a, one year ban of attending events or speaking at events or whatever that looks like, I wanna see those things happen so that we move forward in a much more positive way.

[01:01:11] Nathan Wrigley: So they're the teeth that you have is it, is the teeth would be, things like banning, I guess re removing accounts, for example, from.org or Slack and things like that? Sure. a very basic example is that I am a moderator on the photos. Channel for the photo directory. I have the been so far the lucky, unlucky person who two times we've had pornography put into the directory.

[01:01:40] Michelle Frechette: It gets held in moderation and only those of us moderating from the United States and a very select few of us have access to that channel because of legalities. So I have been the person to see both female pornography and male pornography. Submitted into there and I was able to get those accounts banned because that is absolutely a quote violation, I'm sure there weren't even really people who are working within our community, I think, but that's one example of bad behavior and a swift action to make sure that others aren't privy to those kinds of things. And might I say also, neither of them should have been very proud because they didn't really have much to offer in those photos.

I'm just gonna, don't leave that there. That's gotta be the title of this episode. They didn't have much to offer in those photos. You carry on. I'm gonna write that there. I knew that. I knew that. But are you concerned of like retribution or recrimination or anything like Michelle, like you say something about somebody's code of conduct and.

[01:02:44] Bud Kraus: I'm like, they retaliate against you or something like that. You know what I mean? I'm not saying it. No. Oh yeah, I can aren't. So when somebody reports it, I'm I'm victimized, somebody else reports it. Person you report, I have bad behavior. What a surprise. And then you report as a violation of code of conduct.

And then I just take after you, Michelle did this and you know what I'm saying? Like the, I don't think we've seen that. I don't think we've seen that. You're concerned about that kind of thing. I'm not concerned about that at all. Okay. if I am on the IRT and somebody has been a bad, I think we've seen it a little bit like we know what Mika went through with, when she was in charge of plugins and those kinds of things.

[01:03:26] Michelle Frechette: I think And Tammy's saying that's incredibly rare. I agree. That's incredibly rare. That's terrible when it happens. Yeah. And I don't wanna downplay it at all, of course. But it's incredibly rare and I think that we have the ability to deal with those situations. I'll just, there's a few comments that have come from Tammy and I'll just read them in order.

[01:03:41] Nathan Wrigley: So the first one is, that is incredibly rare. I'm imagining that co that comment coincided with the. Photograph, uploading? I think so, yeah. We were talking about, yeah. and then t Tammy goes on to say, I've also been involved with this work, and it isn't at all normal for the highest level to be implemented, but you need the process.

You also need, to do a rotation and an out to have breaks though. Yeah. This is the sort of thing you hear about these content moderation, farms, platforms like Facebook where these people are just relentlessly exposed to this horrific stuff and don't get a break from it. and yeah, so there is that.

Then, just returning to the story from a moment ago, tacho vaon shop, he's saying, word camp us this year will be the first flagship WordPress event that he's not attending. He said it hurts. I know, but it doesn't really make sense to travel right now. He's in afraid. he, says, I'm afraid.

I guess he means I'm afraid about. not about the comment, not afraid of traveling. Maybe he means both. I've been on the IRT at various WP events and I'm convinced it's a great way to make a positive impact on our community. I have as well. Yeah. Okay. unfortunately, it's not for everyone.

Not everyone in our community is this tacho. Again, not everyone in our community seems to be treated equally, which is why I'm hesitant to apply for the global role. and that's one of the reasons I want to apply for the global role, so that perhaps I'll have, be able to have a positive impact on having people treated more equally.

[01:05:17] Michelle Frechette: So maybe that's pie, in the sky, dreaming and maybe taco's laughing at me right now. And if he is, that's fine, but I, still. I live in poll my Pollyanna world that I think I can help make the world a better place. Honestly, it's such a, it such a strange world we live in, isn't it? I keep saying this over and over again, but if you rewind the clock just 30 years, just this conversation would've seemed like something outta Star Trek.

[01:05:40] Nathan Wrigley: What do you mean moderating things? To be fair, we wouldn't be having this conversation 30 years ago. You'd be a square. I would be a square and there'd be some mid noise happening That's right on our dial up lines. That's right. Yeah. We'd have to meet in a pub somewhere though. Yeah. But, the fact that we're trying to run these go global communities, right?

we're trying to convince people to, stick to a set of morals, which we hope will bind to people's consciousness. The fact that we've got, almost trying to police things and obviously you can't actually police things 'cause you are not the police hoping that people will be moral.

What I'm trying to say is it's Difficult to imagine all of the scenarios and the right, the sort of justice that you might administer and all of that. Also, you don't want only politicians, you don't want only people who work for automatic to be on this. You want community members, right? Actually, because we have a stake in the community.

[01:06:33] Michelle Frechette: when I worked at the University of Rochester 30 years ago, so definitely before the internet was what it is today, I was on the IRT if, or their version of it, for code of conduct violations, student to student, to teacher, to student, all of those things up, peer to peer. And so that I would help evaluate what those, and I've had extensive training on what that looks like and how we help, move a community forward when violations have happened.

So I'm hoping that I can have, and I see that talker says he is not laughing at me, really hopes I succeed in that. I hope that people like me help succeed at that too. So we'll see how it goes. Also, just to emphasize sort of what Michelle just said, we, this is, none of this is new. No. 30 years ago we were doing this in BB forums.

[01:07:18] Tim Nash: We were in at events, I was working things like, at live music events. Yeah. Back then I was quite, I was part of the same team that was, look, just looking out for people and making sure people were safe. This is what. It should be our government. We have juries of our peers. all of that works for the same kind of reason, whether it's successful always or not.

[01:07:43] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So there we go. The incident response team is looking for new members. If you fancy that role and you can accommodate those proclivities, go and check it out. I will put it in the show notes, which will of course be published tomorrow morning. Nice. Love to taco at his comments to me. yeah, that's nice.

yeah. Oh, has he put something else? He'll be there if I need him for help. Always. Yeah. Okay. So I'll be okay. Thank you. Alright. so Paul HPE was, is, I dunno, in the comments and a couple of bits I might have given a heads up we're talk about this. Oh, did you? Okay. Thank you. so in that case, if you've given him a heads up, we won't cover these two 'cause, he's gonna get all, gonna get all bighead no's.

So first thing, the. The company filter, which Paul, heads up has a new product in the marketplace. it's called Filter AI for WordPress. You can find it at filter agency slash filter ai. put a link in the show notes, and a brand new product. and I'll just. Quickly read the blurb. It brings the power of AI to WordPress, streamlining content and creation, and enhancing your editorial workflows.

I think probably the bit you wanna see is this bit, what does it do? it's got settings. You've probably seen something similar elsewhere. But, you've got the option to modify the kind of voice that you use. It's got, Yost, SEO metadata. it will be able to create alt text for you. post-its product descriptions.

It has the capacity to, write, rewrite, and change the tones. excerpts and tags. stop words. I, don't even know what that is. Set stop words up at a global level to ensure that AI responses don't include specific words or phrases. Oh, like naughty words, that kind of thing. Or the competitor or something like that, and then you can remember the M dashes. Yeah. or the m dash. Honestly, that's such a clue. nobody uses m dashes. Apparently there's one person somewhere who uses m dashes. and it's a bit a giveaway. My trivia question on Friday was, was, where is it? College kids are turning in papers with typos on purpose.

[01:09:48] Michelle Frechette: Why? And it's support the AI readers, right? Oh, purposely come to that in a minutely making mistakes. Yeah. Purpose. I'll raise that in a second. And then the last one on here is the choice of a, a AI platform. So you can bring your own ai. API key if you like as well. So congratulations for filter for, creating that, but also secondary, personalized.

[01:10:10] Nathan Wrigley: WP is also created by, filter and this week they've announced, that the pro version, is gonna be free. I think we've got that right. Tim and I weren't a hundred percent sure when we, when we, before we hit record, but I think judging from this, that, it still looks like there's two versions, a light and a pro, but it looks like the pro, so maybe the light is now, you can't pay for it.

Just, just they just switch just to be a bit different. Yeah, that's right. I'm guessing that basically everything is now free, but maybe they're keeping the light version separate. Correct ao, but I'm not sure one of the Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. What I think it's all free now.

so we think it's all free. Correct. Correcto? Yeah, that's, I love it. Maybe that should be the title. That should be the title of the Yeah. The other one's quite weird, isn't it? Okay. Correct. you know that, actually, personalized DP with a Z is free. The personalized with s is spelled it correctly.

[01:11:11] Tim Nash: Spelled correctly Spelled one. He's charged. Charged appropriately. Yeah, that's right. Wait, did he lose his British card by spelling it with a Z? That's right. Instead of an S he says, we've not done a very good job of explaining it. No, I think you have. Basically I'm gonna sell it like this personalized, WP whatever version you had is now free.

[01:11:29] Nathan Wrigley: It looks like they're shipping all of the bits and pieces as free. So two bits outta filter. thank you Paul, to you and your team for doing all of that Again. Links in the show notes. Anybody wanna add anything or shall we move on? just the, oh, I was gonna say is a very good. Product. And I'm glad they made it free because I, felt really sorry for them.

[01:11:52] Tim Nash: 'cause it's one of those products that's it never felt like it had quite the right market when it was a paid for products. 'cause there was like, if you have a dev team, you probably didn't need to build it, but if you didn't have a dev team, you probably couldn't make use of it. Whereas now I think it will be used by a lot more people.

[01:12:12] Nathan Wrigley: There you go. That's great. thanks for the mention. You are absolutely welcome. That said, and then Tacho says, that said, personalized WP Pro is pretty epic. Play with it if you haven't yet. I guess what you're saying is what Tim said. Yeah. Nice. Oh, and the last, the very last comment. Throw on some love Tim's way.

Thanks, Tim. Love you. Oh, he even says I love you. Okay. okay, there's some more here. Hold on. He says, Paul says it, it will all be one product soon. We just want to make it free as soon. Okay. So it will just be personalized, WP. Let's call it one personalized WP one, just to make it more, more confusing.

We're gonna fold it in together, folded the cheese refers to the weight of your wallet after purchasing it, as it says taco. I love stuff like that. Keep it coming. That's great. The more we have, the better. thanks for the positive feedback. You're very welcome. The, the check I hope is in the mail, Paul, if, not there will be a rebuttal of everything I just said in next week's episode.

Okay, let's move on. So we are back to Felix Ants, the, Mighty Felix that we spoke about a moment ago with his 10 things that he's learned from 10 years of, contributions to core this time. a browser feature which is being leveraged, in the near future by a WordPress website near you. It's called View Transitions.

And View Transitions is the capacity to move from one. Place on a website to another place, but make it feel a bit more oh, I dunno, an iOS or Android app. Let's go with that. So much more seamless. A perfect visual definition of that would be this, right? So this is Felix's site. He's in installed his own plugin.

and I apologize if you are listening to this, I'll try to describe it. But we're on the homepage of his website and there is a small archive of three of his latest posts. And if we click on the bottom to view the posts, what I'm expecting to happen is for the page to disappear and the new page to replace it.

Whereas now that doesn't happen. So if you, I don't know if the rendering of this video will work well enough for it to look as good as it actually does, but if I click on it, did you see that? Could you take that in the, featured image from the, little archive. Did you see that? It's so basically we've got this page refresh.

So that is actually happening. The URL has changed, but it's managed to capture the image from the little archive, the loop. And then it's, migrated. It, slowly transitioned. It moved, it expanded it up to where it would be the featured image of the post. And that's just one example.

Pretty slick, right? Yeah. unfortunately, but Bud, can you mute yourself? There's so much feedback coming through Bud Speakers. Yeah. Pete Bud, would you mind muting yourself? again, I didn't do anything. No, it's, it don't need to do anything. Whatever the heck it's doing, it all by itself. but the, idea really is that your website will become a much more fluid experience.

However, Tim points out that he can't use it because Tim's. Because I'm a grownup and I use a browser. Love it. So this is not, I'm bringing that up in my podcast with him in an hour. Yeah. Tim is a grownup. he uses Firefox. And so that begs the question, so this is not really a WordPress plugin in the, in, in the sense of what we're used to.

This is a WordPress plugin leveraging browser features, and in this case a chromium based feature. so there's a range of browser, I think actually is available in Safari as well. So it is just Firefox that's lagging. But this is the problem with all of these sort of newer standards. It takes time for them to be deployed and in the case of some browsers, it might never get deployed in there.

[01:16:10] Tim Nash: So there may well be a case that I might never see a transition. Pretty transitions except on your show. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. Yeah. This doesn't impact people negatively, by not having it, it is not gonna change my, doesn't change the experience dramatically. it's not gonna affect anything other than you lose out on a little bit of prettiness.

That's okay. So it's the standard of, it's if your parallax doesn't work, it's okay. Like it's okay that it didn't roll over. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's a progressive enhancement as we might say. If you can't use it, nobody will be any other wiser. But if you can use it, it's quite nice. And I do think there is a fallback like JavaScript, shim that will allow it to work with things like Firefox.

but obviously adding that adds a lot of pe extra, extra page weight that you might not want. c can I ask you, I don't know if you're a devotee of the MDN sort of documentation or anything like that, but does, is this a feature which. Do you think it's quite likely to drop into Mozilla? Because I'm really hoping that we can all just forget about the browser walls and the feature compatibility and that stuff like this, which feels like it's gonna be leveraged all over the place would be maybe adopted by Mozilla.

I am not a hundred percent sure, but I think this is one of those times where Google pushed something they thought was called forwards. Okay. And other people went, yeah, actually that's quite cool. Let's go and implement that. Yeah. in which case it's less likely to be adopted in the short term by Firefox than if it came through, one of the more standardized ways for coming up with new features.

[01:17:48] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. but ask, say wouldn't, can I just ask a quick question about my noise level now? Because a cement mixer has started outside my open window. Can you hear it? No, Okay. That's great. There all this technology going on inside the platform, which hopefully identifies, a consistent background or so, That's great. So anyway, here's Felix's article, introducing the View Transitions plugin for WordPress. bud, just to let you know, I have muted you 'cause it was, for want of a better word, intolerably loud. so if you can figure that out, that would be great and you can unmute yourself at any moment.

so this is it, and he describes why he's built it and how you can leverage, a different set of customizations. So it doesn't have to just do this one thing. You can customize it with code and, add theme support and things like that. But, it looks like there's possibilities for sliding, swiping, wiping, whatever the difference is.

I don't know the difference between a, slide, a swipe and a wipe, but, I feel there's a good. Nursery rhyme in there somewhere? Don't know. I, remember them from my days using, PowerPoint. Yeah. They did different things like, yeah, but I'm not exactly sure a slide. It feels to me as if the content moves, the whole content moves over.

A white feels like one sort of moves over the top of it. But a swipe. I don't know what the heck a swipe is. I've not, I don't know. A swipe replaces. Okay. I like it. A replaces, yeah. Wave just gets rid and things. A swipe replaces Sounds like a, Shakespeare play or something. Okay. Anyway, there you go.

Thank you Felix, for giving us, that plugin. You can, you can go and download it and play it to your heart's content. Let's move on quickly 'cause we are running out time. Bob, like I said, if you can figure it out, please unmute yourself. that's great. one of the things which I think most people who are using the block editor have complained about, if you're using ForSight editing is, the problem of navigation.

The defaults that you have are. Let's go with basic. There's not a great deal you can do with the defaults. So it feels like at the minute there's quite a few, plugins and things come out to try and tackle that cadence. I know you can do, your own menus with cadence. I know that generate blocks have just dropped something like this.

And, here's another one. This is by, groundwork, or at least it's called Groundworks with an X, not a K, navigation. and you can get early access for It, it does exactly what you'd expect. It takes the, BOG standard, capacity of the navigation block and hopefully adds other things. For example, it adds what you might call, I don't know, let's go with an accordion, although it might be a details block or something like that.

It also adds, nesting so you can do UI and uls, that kind of thing, or nesting without the icons. Anyway. Just thought that it might improve your WordPress website if you are using full site editing. Anybody wanna comment on that? Probably not. X That's not a UK thing, right? what's that? Z What's that spelling with an X?

[01:20:56] Michelle Frechette: That's not a UK thing. Like the and Yeah. OUGH or OU in color. Yeah. Yeah. honestly, if you do step away from the, the the motherland and go your own way with spelling, actually color's are much better color. It makes no sense to have a U in it. Color's much more sensible. But, yeah.

[01:21:16] Nathan Wrigley: Anyway, let's not get into that. I have thoughts, Yeah. Tim, do you wanna get into this? We're very short of time, so you'd have to summarize it quickly. Automated hosting test run a service. Yeah. you've, you love having hosting companies that, and you really like it when WordPress works on them, to get that sort of level of compatibility, WordPress needs to test along amongst large quantities of hosting companies and lots of their interesting little setups that they decided that they were gonna be so specific about, 'cause it was gonna be amazing for them.

[01:21:53] Tim Nash: And then it turns out that nothing will run on it. this is a solution to basically help create those, that automated testing process. and it's really good and really cool and really useful. And it means that hosting companies will be able to feed back information. Back into, to WordPress about new, whenever there's new releases and things.

[01:22:14] Nathan Wrigley: I'm just gonna make another comment, Bob, if you, if you fiddle with papers in front of your microphone, it is stupendously loud. or we just got this sort of noise.

Dear podcast listeners, we're sorry. Yeah. Try kick your hands in the air. That's it. Yeah, you go. So I've, unfortunately, I've had to mute you again. This feels like you're in the bin playing ice hockey or. Something like, do apologize. I don't wish to do that, but it's just Can we have visual countdown timers to show how long he's in the city for?

[01:22:48] Tim Nash: Yeah, that's right. You could come back in after 30 seconds. okay. Can I just say that? Okay. I'm gonna come back. Go ahead. I just, Nathan, I like sin been better than penalty box. That's a really cool, I can't do your show. I, every time I do this show, it's a disaster. It's okay. We're very, we're totally happy with.

[01:23:09] Nathan Wrigley: I just have to hang my head. And shame, honestly, don't worry. It's the question of muting you. That's the, I know, but every time, what was the word thing that we dealt with a moment ago? What was that, thing called, it was the, what's it called? Rt? The I rt. Yeah.

We, I'm being the IRT gonna be recorded. Exactly. So anyway, that one, was by CSU, C-R-I-X-U. It's called, it's on make wordpress.org. It'll be in the show notes tomorrow. And, as Tim said, it's it's the, endeavor to make it so that your, WordPress host just basically works. So that's fabulous.

Nice. We've got about five minutes left. What should we tackle? What have we got left? do you wanna do that security one, Tim, or can I just rifle through my pick of the weeks? just rifle for your pick of the weeks. That one looks way scarier than it sounds. There's nothing steal about it. I love that image.

Yeah, I like the image as well. Yeah, it's good image. Great. Okay, so here's my pick of the weeks. I didn't know this existed, but I, here it is. So it's, and it's also an coincidentally, it's an automatic product. It's a, grammar checker, but it's called Harper. you can find [email protected].

I haven't, honestly, I've not explored it 'cause I've got an option already. mine's not called Grammarly. It's called, I don't actually know what it's called. Pro writing aid is the one I use. And but this appears to be a free version. It's got a GitHub repo. You've got Chrome obsidian, obsidian, I think.

Quite a few people who watch this seem to be obsessed with obsidian, vs. Code plugin and what have you. And yeah, it does exactly what you'd expect. I honestly can't tell you how good it is, but I know that, Grammarly can be very expensive, can't it? So maybe worth checking out. That's called Harper.

The, next one, which is, we were talking a minute ago about teachers, weren't we? This is the article that I brought up last week. It's on 4 0 4 media and it was all about, honestly, I feel like this is so demoralizing if you are a regular teacher, teaching kids in a school and they're handing in work and you've got this strong intuition that it's been written by an ai and yet you are compelled by the job description to read it and it takes you half an hour to mark it and in the back of your mind that it took the child four seconds to press a button.

That's, that is a real, that's a real worry. I think like a societal systemic worry that we've, and we've gotta figure out ways to do this. Anyway, this article encapsulates that whole thing, and it's called teachers are Not. Okay. So definitely, worth a read if you're into that kind of thing.

yeah. 15 years, 10 years ago, we were saying, you're not allowed to use Wikipedia. It's not, you can't use that as a resource. Now we're like, Wikipedia is, because it's community monitored is so much better than any encyclopedia that you, for those of you who are really young, encyclopedia, are books that we had on shelves.

[01:26:02] Michelle Frechette: And now we're gonna remember we're saying chat, GPT, blah, blah. I think that there's gonna be a way to incorporate things going forward where we can use things to the best of our abilities without actually just not doing any of the research. And I think we're working towards that. Yeah. Yeah. certainly it's here, isn't it?

[01:26:17] Nathan Wrigley: We're, it's here to stay. I don't suppose it's that. But that is all gonna go back in the box. But it would seem fairly in unjust for a teacher to spend half an hour marking a piece of work that no child ever had any contact with, apart from clicking the print icon. Agreed. so anyway, there was that, was interesting.

if you're into CSS you'll have noticed that of late over the last year or two. it has been moving ahead at a real clip. And, every year the state of the CSS survey comes out. So I will link to this one in the show notes. it seems like a lot of the people on the CSS side of things are actually asking for it to slow down a bit.

if would, it would appear that many people are getting lost and there's too much innovation. we'll see if that transpires, but. There you go. And then a couple more. This one I thought was nice. It's called Pocket Cal. this is the ability for you to, it's, a, it's an online service, but it's not a SaaS.

It's, you've got the ability to share with different people the kind of the timescale that you've got for setting up an event and various people can come and everything is contained in the URL. So if you save it and then send that URL, it will have bound your data to it, you know the dates that you can and can't do.

You pass it on to somebody else and then they do the same thing. And your dates and their dates get coalesced. And anyway, I just thought that was a nice online free tool. PNG is. Back baby. Where did it go? Yeah, where did it go? nowhere apparently, but a good old PNG, which everybody's been using for ages, has now, after two decades, is now, being updated so that it comes into line with things more I don't know, web P and Avis.

And it's gonna have all the different bits and pieces that, you know, background gradients and blah, blah, blah, all of that kind of stuff. So I thought that was interesting. And Michelle wanted me to mention this one that me press, have got a, security survey they're offering, they're calling it the state No, what they call it the 2025 WordPress Security s survey.

I will drop that into the show notes as well. Takes 10 minutes. It's just I think another week and a half that's available to respond to. Okay, guys, fill it in. Yeah, please. not least they will give you like, there is actual prize and the enterprise includes like some of their plugins, which are.

[01:28:42] Tim Nash: Pretty good plugins. Depends. Nice. You need to use them. So Nice. But it's also really useful and I take, people like me will take that information from the survey and we will insert it into talks and use it as selling features, et cetera. So it is really useful to get an actual understanding of what people's feelings are about the state of WordPress security.

[01:29:03] Nathan Wrigley: The URL is, is not gonna be something that I'm gonna be able to read out. It's not that bad, but equally it's got some capital and not capitals, but you can just go to mela press.com/survey. It will redirect to that. Oh, nice. Okay. mela press.com forward slash survey. I will put this in the show notes so you can just click a link in the email that comes out tomorrow.

And lastly, this is why the internet was invented. Frankly, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. Excluding my marriage and the birth of my children, but it comes pretty close. like the caveat. Yeah. Thank you. This is, this is Wiki radio, right? So the URL is monon, M-O-N-K-E-O-N, dot co do UK slash wiki radio.

And I won't be able to demonstrate it 'cause this platform doesn't consume my system audio. It will only, consume the audio from my microphone and so on. But basically you'll press a button and it will pick a random file, a random audio file from Wikipedia and just play it to you. Oh my God. Like the rap, it's I love, like general knowledge and trivia and miscellaneous.

And so you just click it and most of the time you'll be like, I have no idea what this person's talking about, because it's in a different language. Or then you'll just get some like Bolivian choir singing followed by, Clement Atley talking from the 19 hundreds. it just, it's just brilliant.

It so you, I, lost half a day to this, just over and over again. So what I'm really saying is don't go to this URL. 'cause if you're anything like me, you'll lose half a day. But I can only imagine you. And the days I stumble upon click, it was so good. You know that serendipity when something, and you just you click it, you don't like it, you click it and then it's what is that?

And it was some random choir in Papua New Guinea. Doing some chant. Oh, it was absolutely wonderful. And then of course she can go. Isn't there one where you can look out of other people's windows? Isn't that something too? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. But, let's see if I can find that one. Yeah. I'm not sure, but just confirm out of other people's windows.

[01:31:14] Tim Nash: Yeah. Yeah. Does this subtract from the time that you listen to those weather reports for vestment? Oh, no. So you know what I went onto, Bud's podcast and bud was, bud, we got into this whole thing. Tim, you maybe know about this. Do you ever listen to the shipping forecast? I have listened to the shipping forecast.

Okay. Oh my God. just so that in the UK we have this radio station called Radio four and ev every evening or morning at about one o'clock it go, it shuts down for the night and just before they shut down, they play this music called Sailing by, which is beautiful, very tranquil. but also they read out the shipping forecast, which is a vestige from, I don't know, from the advent of radio.

[01:31:55] Nathan Wrigley: And the intention is to give information in a really concise way so that fishermen out in the sea can have some indication of what's gonna happen in the next 24 hours. But it is sublimely weird to listen to. It goes a bit like this. I'll, shall I do a demo? Is that Absolutely yes. Okay. And then we'll finish.

So it goes a bit like this goes Cty 612, rising slowly north at Sierra, south at Sierra. Then it might say something like, falling more slowly and it just goes on, it goes on like that for about 10 minutes. But it's so great. It's just such a part of my, growing up, I couldn't sleep at night, so I put the radio on and that would, oh.

Anyway, there we go. you are so British. Even if you haven't listened, you are even British if you haven't listened to the ship. No. Tammy, frankly, if you haven't, no, you're not. If you haven't listened to the shipping forecast, no. I said send me the url. I said it wasn't as good as the birth of my children.

but I did say it was pretty close. and we got a fun fact. So here's some miscellaneous from Tacho. Fun fact, this weekend I walked what? Yes, I walked 84 kilometers. Oh, wow. Is that real? Did you actually do that Tacho this weekend? I walked 84 kilometers whilst listening to Bud's podcast. Is that the limits that Bud's podcast has driven you to?

What were you doing Tacho? I, simply don't understand. I'm guessing it was some sort of sponsored event or I did notice there was a binge listener to Seriously, bud in the last couple of days. Oh, there you go. It was him. now you've got, was it double sponsored? Was it sponsored? Both to listen to Bud and to do the war.

Yeah. Which one was the sponsorship for? Yeah, that's right. The the thing is now Tako, you can know all you need is Wiki radio. That's, you're gonna be your best friend going forward. You can listen to that for your 84 kilometers. No, he says, I didn't, it was a typo. It was 86.

Good grief. okay. Really on, on that bombshell. I have nothing to, nothing to eclipse that we will knock it on the head. and he said, okay, one more. He says, it was just a training weekend. I. Some people put you to shame, don't they? I sat on a sofa. I still, my comment didn't, my comment didn't come through.

[01:34:19] Michelle Frechette: But window swap, if anybody's interested in seeing those window, you can, it's window swap.com. You don't have to clear it up now, but I just wanted to include it. Case people show. You can add that into the show notes. Tim, were you gonna say something before we Yeah, just, I have more questions now about what he's trading for.

[01:34:34] Tim Nash: Is he trading for More Bud's podcast? Yeah, it's a, full on odd marathon that he's trading. I dunno. Yeah, I dunno. thank you so much to my, three guests, my co-host over there, Michelle Ette, also to Tim Nash to Doom Speaker he says. And also to seriously bo thank you for sticking with us.

[01:34:55] Nathan Wrigley: Seriously, Bob, thank you. Thank you. and thank you for those of you that joined us in the comments. We appreciate it. It really keeps the shows ticking along very nicely. Yeah, we will be back in about a week's time, hopefully, for a different show with a different set of panelists. But, yeah. Thank you very much.

Before we go though, one last thing we have to do, the humiliating hand wave and oh, Michelle's poking through the eyes. There we go. I think we've got everybody more, or, yeah, that'll do. That's great. Thank you so much. We'll be back in week. Is that a cow behind you now, Tim? Oh yeah. I believe it's a pair.

[01:35:32] Tim Nash: It's, oh, okay. Is it, oh, yeah. Yeah. There are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6 horses and Okay, about eight alpacas. And on that bombshell, we will leave you until next week. Take it easy.