This Week in WordPress #332

[00:00:04] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for This Week in WordPress, episode number 332, entitled In support of the chickens. It was recorded on Monday, the 28th of April, 2025. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and as always, I'm joined by some fabulous guests. I'm joined by Michelle Frechette and Tim Nash. Our third guest couldn't make it this week.

Incidentally, if you want to join us live and add to the comments, as many people did to today, as you will hear, you can head to wpbuilds.com/live, at 2:00 PM most Mondays and join in. We would really appreciate that.

So what do we talk about this week? We talk about PressConf, an event that just happened. Michelle and many other people went. What was it like, and what did they think of it?

There's a new theme switcher, which enables you to have multiple themes on a single website at the same time. We discussed where that might or might not be useful.

There's a new piece by Joost, the person, who is talking all about SEO and whether or not in the past plugins like Yoast from the company Yoast, have made it too easy for people to produce content which is formulaic.

We also talk about the fact that WordCamp Canada is around the corner.

Tim has got a new course. We are urging everybody to sign up. It's at wpsecurity101.com, and Tim outlines all of the different bits and pieces which are in there.

He also shares news of a Firefox customization. It's called BetterFox, and it will enable you to make Firefox exactly what you want.

We also talk about Patchstack's updates, which they released recently.

And WordPress 6.8 along with the fact that some people, many people, are going to be unblocked from things like WordPress Slack, and wordpress.org. Those are people that have been blocked in the more recent past.

We end the podcast talking about Elementor version four, and how it's going to become CSS first.

And also WP Descriptor, an AI based plugin, which will help you create alt tags and so on for your images.

It's all coming up next on This Week in WordPress.

This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of manage WordPress hosting that includes free domain, SSL, and 24 7 support. Bundle that with the hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients and get 30% of new purchases. Find out more at go.me/wpuilds.

And by Bluehost. Redefine your web hosting experience with Bluehost Cloud. Managed WordPress hosting that comes with lightning fast websites, 100% network uptime, and 24 7 priority support. With Bluehost Cloud, the possibilities are out of this world. Experience it today at bluehost.com/cloud.

And by Omnisend. Do you sell your stuff online? Then meet Omnisend. Yes, that Omnisend. The email and SMS tool that helps you make 73 bucks for every dollar spent. The one that's so good, it's almost boring. Hate the excitement of rollercoaster sales? Prefer a steady line going up? Try Omnisend today at omnisend.com.

Hello. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. In E World, is it just me who hums the last few mo, gets the last piece and I hum and then I'm like, oh no, I've gotta be quiet for this bit. No, you totally good. Yeah, it's too long. Two minutes. I've never hummed it. I know.

[00:03:59] Michelle Frechette: Yeah, you should just, we could change it to one minute. do you know what I did? I, when I started doing this show and put it on live, I did some Googling and and the recommendation from most of the people who did things like this was give everybody a couple of minutes, like literally two minutes.

[00:04:14] Nathan Wrigley: So that's what I did. And it feels too long 'cause we're stuck in this two minute cycle, but I guess true. We'll get an email from YouTube or what have you and then open it up. So it's probably about the right, it just feels a little bit Yes. I.

So I can precisely, ah, you have a little, okay, so this is going off piece, but nevermind. I, whenever I click go, I make sure that video starts, and then I have this little set of things that I do. I get out the chair, run downstairs and get a water. No, like the water's already here. That would be banana.

But if I, yeah, the banana. I've already eaten the banana. The, no, I go around and close the windows because there's quite a lot of noise typically. And, so I go around and I just make sure all the windows are shut and behind that thing, that logo there is a door. And if I've got the windows open, that door can rattle quite a lot and make a lot noise.

This is so interesting. I'm so sorry. Oh dear. I love it. Oh, there we go. it is this week in WordPress, it's episode number 332. There was supposed to be three. Four us, me plus three others. But we seem to have, we seem to have been missing a guest, but if the other guest, shows up in a few moments, we'll let them in.

but I am thankfully joined by, two fabulous people today. Down there is the co-host of today's show, and it's. Michelle Frechette. Hello Michelle. How are you doing?

[00:05:39] Michelle Frechette: Hello. I'm a little jet lagged and a little tired 'cause I've just spent, four days in a three hour time difference at Press Con down in.

Yeah,

[00:05:50] Nathan Wrigley: we'll, get into that. It sound, from everything that I saw, it seemed like everybody had rapturously nice things to say about it. But let's, park that just for a second of course. And then course you can get into the full thing. anyway, here's Michelle's bio. Michelle is the executive director at Post Status and in addition to that, she is the podcast barista, WP Coffee Talk, co-founder of Underrepresented in Tech, creator of WP Speakers and WP Career pages.

She's an author, frequent organizer and speaker at WordPress events. Her home is Rochester, New York and she likes to take nature photography. She knows she doesn't. She likes to do nature photography and the one URL if you want just catch up on the whole thing is meet Michelle online. Thank you for joining us today, even though you are Jet Pleasure.

I appreciate that. And of course also over there, Tim Nash. Hello Tim. Hello. Nice to, nice to have you with us as always, Tim supplies a, an intriguing biography. I try not to read it just

[00:06:50] Tim Nash: to be, clear. I was told I do not sell myself enough. Yes. So I've done you an advert.

[00:06:55] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. That's perfect. You do.

I read. It's lovely. You don't sell yourself enough. So here we go. This is Tim's bio, which includes a small ad, and you'll find out about the thing that he's mentioning in a moment. Have you or your family been affected by poor security? Do you lie in bed wondering, is my site secure? Then you probably have been in one of Tim's talks and know the answer is no, they are not.

Nine out of 10 people say, hiring Tim, however relieves such symptoms as he is a WordPress security consultant. Hire Tim today. For better security. what's the URL Tim, quickly just insert it there. tim

[00:07:31] Tim Nash: nash.co uk.

[00:07:32] Nathan Wrigley: Nice, easy. listening to Tim may induce paranoia, panic and cause the development of a slight twitch hiring Tim does not guarantee security or better sleep.

Nine out of 10 people was based on a sample of two people, two people next. I didn't read that until the end. That was lovely. Tim's is going to be forced whether he likes it or not, to promote something that he's been working on lately. So we'll definitely get into that. If you are joining us, few bits of housekeeping if you're joining us, we would love your comments.

It's really appreciated when people drop in some comments. It keeps the show, ticking along nicely. the best way to do that, let me find my captions. The best way to do that is to go probably here. WP builds.com/live. If you go there, it's it's an embedded, video from the platform that we're using and embedded into that is a little live chat box.

And if you want to use that, you don't have to be logged into anything. However, to the right I. If you're on a desktop to the right of the, the window where the video is, YouTube comments, and obviously you would need a Google account and a YouTube account and so on and so forth. So take your pick at wp builds.com/live is the place to go.

Send your, colleagues and friends there. We'd really appreciate it. and we've got a few comments coming in. Thank you very much indeed. We've got Aaron. Oh, hello Aaron. nice to catch up again. How's things going? it says hi all. Also Cameron Jones joining us from the other side of the planet.

Good evening. Can't say I'm enjoying the very British weather here in Vita Harbor, Australia. Ah, you mean really sunny and what? Yeah, really sunny. What about it, Tim? It's 21 degrees here at the moment, Cameron. I dunno what it is where you are, but presumably, to be

[00:09:14] Tim Nash: fair, it's not here. it's about 16 and gray.

Oh,

[00:09:18] Nathan Wrigley: I have beautiful sunshine and, 21 degrees. Very, happy. good morning, says James. Hello James. Nice to have you with us. Lawrence, I presume, is joining us from Australia as well. Hello? Oh yeah, there we go. Next comment says, good

[00:09:31] Michelle Frechette: evening. He says

[00:09:32] Nathan Wrigley: 15 degrees Celsius here in Melbourne. It is 21 degrees Celsius here.

I dunno what that is in that other unit that only America, it's,

[00:09:40] Michelle Frechette: 11 here.

[00:09:42] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, 11.

[00:09:43] Tim Nash: Oh, hang on. Cel Fahrenheit. Off Celsius. No, 52

[00:09:47] Michelle Frechette: Fahrenheit. 11 Celsius. And then the news app says that it's Harley cloudy. But I don't know how it determines if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny. 'cause it's doing both.

So

[00:09:58] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, that's the glass half empty, isn't it? Definitely. The glass is half empty there. Marcus Burnett is joining us as well. I think he was joining you at PO at Press conf, which we'll find out in just a moment. hello Marcus. Nice to have you with us. And, Aaron saying, trying to work and not get eaten by my puppy.

I, I gotta say you are, you're watching the right show if you wanna get on with your work. This is, this is the, I remember somebody once said my podcast was the best cure for insomnia. It's a bit. Like that. And, Cameron says freedom units. What, he's talking about Fahrenheit, I'm guessing.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. thank you anyway for making the comments. If you, wanna do that, just drop us a comment. We really appreciate it. We try to get as many of them on the show as we possibly can. it's a WordPress podcast and so the intention is to cover mainly WordPress, but we do stray off into other subjects as well.

And, this is our website. It's wp builds.com if you want to keep in touch with what we do. So we do this episode, we record it live on a Monday, and that's what you are watching now live. If you're joining us, you obviously know it's Monday, I would hope. but we also just repurpose it. We package it up as a podcast episode, which drops on a Tuesday.

So if you sign up using that subscribe form that you can see here, you'll get notified when that comes out. Tuesday morning, UK time, but also when we drop a podcast episode as well. And if you go to the sort of archive section here, WP Builds podcast, you'll be able to see a list of the podcasts that we've had.

And, the most recent one, which we might get time to talk about at the end is, all about Elementor. but if you go back, you can see that the likes of Tim Nash there. Look at that. So episode number 419 if is what we dropped. So we'll drop you a couple of, emails a week. And another bit of self-promotion, is to say that the, the page builder summit.

which is a summit that I've been running with an, and now I'm joined by Dan maybe as well. it's taking place in the very near future, 12th to the 16th of May. It's totally free if you, wanna consume the content for the first 48 hours. That's how we make it work. it is, like I said, free for those 48 hours.

And then after that we have a, we have an upsell, but it's, page builder summit.com. If you, if you fancy sponsoring that event, we've got a few slots open. We've actually done quite well with the sponsorship this time around, but there are still a few slots open. And if you add sponsors to that, so WP, sorry, page builder summit.com/sponsors.

You can find out about that. But, yeah, it's looking like it's gonna be a really nice event. the speakers you can see are all lined up at the bottom of that page, and although we haven't got, I don't think every single one of them on the page just yet. The majority of them are there.

And you can see it's a, broad selection of the great and the good from the WordPress community. And a very, heartfelt thanks for anybody who's given up their time for making content for the summit. So there you go. Page builder summit.com. I think that's all the self-promotional bits that I've got.

However, something quirky happened to me. I was out on a walk the other day. I'm gonna throw this one out there. Let's see if anybody responds. And I saw this, I, have no idea why this made me laugh as much, but I saw this sign and took a picture of it. Have you ever had one of those moments in life, like honestly, these moments in life?

I can count all of them on one hand. You know those moments where you absolutely cannot stop laughing. Indescribable laughter that you want to stop. 'cause it's so painful. This sign induced it. And it's probably the fourth time in my life when that's happened and I have no idea why. But if you're listening to this and you can't see it, it's a sort of beaten up old sign.

It was on like a farm, fence and it just says of the chickens. And there's a great out picture of some chickens. And I posted this on, I posted this on Twitter and blue sky and things like that. And I was really surprised that people started replying with what the missing word might have been.

Now I think that probably said beware. Of the chickens. Why would you want to be aware of the chickens in the first place?

[00:14:12] Tim Nash: I've just fought an alternative. Yeah, gone on. Free of the chickens. Free of the chickens. I got, it's not there anymore. The chickens have gone. Yeah. Yeah. That's why they've gone,

[00:14:23] Michelle Frechette: doesn't it look like they're a blaze though?

It should be. Bonfire of the chicken. Aware

[00:14:26] Nathan Wrigley: of. So this was the intention. I'm gonna see if anybody drops in a one word comment. Put it in all caps so that we can see what it was. But in Twitter, people wrote the, first one that came through was Planet, which I thought was Great. Planet of the Chickens.

And then I think David Wamsley wrote Revenge of the Chickens. What did you just say, Tim? Free of the chickens. Free of the Chickens. So if you've got anything you wanna add to that's just a bit of fun. Which we'll, we'll continue during the show. Put it in all caps and, that's funny. Something.

The chickens. It's got absolutely nothing to do with WordPress, but there we go. Okay.

[00:15:00] Michelle Frechette: Barbecue

[00:15:01] Nathan Wrigley: bar.

Aw. I feel a bit sad for the poor chickens now. Okay. I might be hungry. Barbecue. I dunno. Barbecue of the chickens. I like it. Okay. It's not in all caps, but I'll go. I'll go. That one's well. Podcast of the chickens. Podcast of the

[00:15:18] Michelle Frechette: chickens. I nice it if you wait. If you add WP in front of it doesn't look. W WordPress Podcast

[00:15:22] Nathan Wrigley: of the Chickens.

Okay. Reese. Reese Win. I knew this would be funny. Attack of the mutant job. Last. Suppose you got for of take the of the out attack of the mutant chickens. just attack

[00:15:36] Tim Nash: of the chickens.

[00:15:37] Nathan Wrigley: Attack of the chicken. Exactly. True attack of the chickens. Kf Kfs. Kfs. What's Kfs? Is that an acronym for something?

I just, I think. Kx C. Okay. Kf C kfc, the chickens. And because it's been very popular and it's the perfect segue. Thank you so much, Cameron. press con.

[00:15:57] Michelle Frechette: Press cards. Press con. The chicken

[00:15:59] Nathan Wrigley: of the chickens. That's perfect. Okay. Keep, them coming. If you've got any and you wanna add 'em in, that's, that's absolutely great.

I would love that. Something. Of the chickens. Let's move into WordPress gear.

[00:16:10] Michelle Frechette: Camby says Good morning, but good morning of the chickens. Good morning. Of

[00:16:13] Nathan Wrigley: the chicken. No, I don't think she meant, I don't think she meant that. okay. So over to Michelle on this one. Really, we've been mentioning this for absolutely ages.

Raquel, a very long time ago, started organizing what turned out to be press conf. It felt like it was the, the sort of child, if you like, of, Pressonomics, which is an event that I've I never went to, I really wasn't in the word press space when that had its glory days, I think. And, but you went, Michelle, and I think I did.

You just got us, you just gonna sum up what you thought of it. So tell us about, so

[00:16:44] Michelle Frechette: first of all, what happens at press Comp stays at press cof. So I really can't talk about, no. Okay. no, I'll say it's, you can look at the speakers and the topics, but, on the schedule. But I will say that, it, because it's not filmed.

Recorded, whatever the word we use. Now, every time I say film or tape, I just age myself. I know. Yeah, But because it's not recorded and we don't record it as, attendees and we're not taking pictures of slides to put out, it really does create, a freer space for the speakers to be, raw and vulnerable in how they present their topics.

And I will say that some of the speakers hit your heart so much. About what they were talking about, that it was, if only for two or three of the talks, I would have spent the money to be there and in the room for those. But all of them were amazing and the networking opportunities and their extra day at the end to hang out and go kart or golf or just hang around, the pool or whatever you wanted to do, and, go to lunch with people, go to dinner with people.

I'm never early up, early enough to go to breakfast with anybody, but that's another story. some people are jogging in the morning and I'm like, my scooter's not charged yet. Sorry.

[00:18:10] Nathan Wrigley: So the, but it was really

[00:18:12] Michelle Frechette: worth it.

[00:18:12] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. the stuff that I, obviously, my only interaction really with it was on the social media kind of things. And what I was quite surprised by was in the build up. There was a very large amount of social media posting about, I'm going, and then, the inevitable, here I am at the airport kind of post and all that.

And then I was expecting to be this cavalcade of social media posts at the event, and actually the opposite happened. It went dead quiet. And I'm presuming that's because there was some sort of mutual agreement that, you know, no. no. It was just steps? No, not

[00:18:45] Michelle Frechette: really. It, we weren't really supposed to tweet about the, what people are saying in their sessions.

Per se. usually you'd still see a lot of selfies and things like that. It's that there was, it was such an, it created such an intimate environment that you didn't even think to pull out your phone to take those photos. Too often. Like we were having such great conversations that it wasn't like, oh, and by the way, say cheese kind of thing, So. how do you, like I usually take a ton of pictures and I hardly took anything.

[00:19:13] Nathan Wrigley: how, what is it that, what's the metric? So when you say having great conversations, what, is it, what's the sort of slightly different secret source, if that separates it? Obviously you've described that it, the numbers, you didn't say this, but I know the numbers were much, much smaller.

So I think it was somewhere in the region of 140, something like that. 140,

[00:19:33] Michelle Frechette: 150, something like that. Yeah.

[00:19:34] Nathan Wrigley: Everything happened on, in the same place. So there was one track. No meals were provided outside, so you had to organize that. So that kind of also created this mechanism getting together with people and things.

Yeah. So what if you could try to put your finger on it, the one thing that was it, what would it be?

[00:19:57] Michelle Frechette: I think, so there's a couple things that really led to that. It had a higher price tag and it was in kind of a. Distant location for a lot of people. So I think what that did is, and I hate to say it, made it a more elite event in that the people who were there spending more money to be there tended to be some of the bigger names or more insider WordPress people, as opposed to, we didn't, I don't think I saw a single person who was like, Hey, I just learned WordPress and I wanna know more.

Like you would get at a Word camp, for example. And because you had to be intentional about who you're going to lunch with, it wasn't like, I got my tray, where am I gonna sit? So you were choosing small groups, it happens naturally, of course, but to get together with and be like, Hey, a bunch of us are going to this place for dinner.

Who wants to come? I think the most people I ate with at any one time was, eight or nine. And that was out with Kami in one evening. And she's, in the comments here. and it, I don't know how to explain it really, but like the first, not the first very first night, 'cause I got in really late, but the first.

Full day I had dinner with Marcus and Bud, and we laughed and had so much fun together that I think I was gonna cause, Marcus to spit out his tea at one point because of some jokes that we were telling. And Bud, of course, bud and I like to, bounce off one another and I call him curmudgeon, he calls me insufferable.

and yet he picked up the tab for my meal at the end. so it was that kind of event. I, it's hard to really explain it, but yeah,

[00:21:31] Nathan Wrigley: I think these things are hard to encapsulate. Okay. Let me phrase it another way, which might give you a way in, if you could transport one or two of the features that you witnessed there and bring them into a Word camp.

what can you think of anything which might translate well into a word camp that might be, that a word camp needs to be modified or it might be just something brand new that you never saw before.

[00:21:55] Michelle Frechette: Oh gosh. I think, not every word camp records itself, right? So that's already a thing with a lot of word camps.

But it, but creating an environment that allowed attendees as well as speakers to, to be vulnerable with one another and share their real, struggles and their real selves, I think was what really came through in this, for me anyway, I had never been to Pronos, so I had nothing to compare it to, but it was one of those events where you really do leave.

Like I, I don't take notes very often, and I left with, pages of notes that I took while I was there. and a lot of those notes are ideas of things I want to do to create some side incomes while I'm looking for my next big gig. And and I made some really good connections with people about how I can do those things and who I can partner with for some of those.

So it just, yeah.

[00:22:54] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So recommendation for the future. Would, will you be attending again, if they, if, Raquel puts this event on, is it on your list of things to check out? Absolutely. 100%. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, Tim, any insights, any thoughts on that?

[00:23:09] Tim Nash: I obviously, you, get the fomo, the fear of missing out, and obviously you had that massively over the weekend.

I would say that it wasn't a really difficult place to get to if you're not in the us. and especially coming from Europe, it felt and I did, I did price it up and went. No,

[00:23:27] Michelle Frechette: it's just not, it's not feasible for a lot of people. Yeah. It's, it

[00:23:30] Tim Nash: just is too expensive. That said, I, think it has all the nice things.

the smaller intimate conferences are what I really enjoy. I don't like the big mega conferences. I don't find them rewarding and I don't think you get the same knowledge that you can get from a smaller one. And I'm becoming much more of a fan of a one track event. 'cause I've sit down and I watch things and I watch things that I might not have wanted to, that I would've naturally veered away from watching.

And that's the way we learn. we, it's very easy conference to go and sit in the hallway rather than watch the talks. and everybody says how valuable the hallway track is and it is. But there's also great value in those talks, having an event like that.

[00:24:16] Michelle Frechette: There were a couple, I sat out to have conversations, really deep conversations with people.

I know nothing about blockchain and sitting through an hour of blockchain would've been incredibly painful for me. So instead, I chose to have a deep conversation with somebody, outside of the room, for that one. but the other thing that was really good for me, and I did put this on, Twitter, was that press, press Pressable was giving away a giant Lego set that is the Pacman.

Lego builder and I won. So that's coming to my home very soon, yay. We're Lego.

[00:24:57] Tim Nash: did you take that on the plane? Yeah,

[00:24:59] Michelle Frechette: no, they said they would ship it to me 'cause it would've fit in my suitcase. Okay. Try to carry that on a scooter onto a plane would've been very challenging. And also

[00:25:07] Nathan Wrigley: just, what the heck?

You know what, why are you, yeah. yeah, so one of the things that I saw, I think it was Katie, Keith who was there, I dunno if she's returned home or not, but she tweeted about it and she said one of the nice things that she thought was that the low numbers meant that you, there was more sort of chance for serendipity to take hold, Yes. You would bump into the same person, Three or four times, just because, it's a small cohort of 140 odd people, so you end up with more conversations with the same person. You get to know them better. Yeah.

[00:25:41] Michelle Frechette: There was a snack shack that is part, there's two snack shacks at this hotel, and there are separate little tiny buildings in the courtyard.

And one snack shack was our snack shack. And you could go in there anytime during the conference and get an ice cream, get coffee, get a soda, get. Corn dogs. there was all these things all day, every day where if like you were just a little ish or you wanted to like, have coffee with somebody, you could do that.

And I was like, that's actually pretty brilliant. yeah, because everybody connects over food, right? Yeah. that's one of the things we connect over. So

[00:26:14] Nathan Wrigley: one of those things that the all inclusive kind of holiday package always seems to drag people in with. Yeah. the little snack thing.

couple of ideas, in the comments. So Lauren, I'm not necessarily suggesting it, but just, an option might be, press Con Europe and Asia. You never know.

[00:26:31] Michelle Frechette: I assume Raquel is sleeping right now. Yeah. Let's, I'm sure the idea

[00:26:36] Nathan Wrigley: has occurred to Raquel. Lawrence

[00:26:38] Michelle Frechette: Send her, an email.

[00:26:39] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And then, Dave joining us, he says, plus one for Europe and Kami, who you obviously spent quite a bit of time with, it says, I'll definitely go again.

And my favorite part was the weather in, how do you pronounce that? Is it Tempe Tempe in Tempe. I don't feel like I just went on a trip to a conference. I feel like I went on a vacation with my friends. It's truncated it in the comments on the screen, but it was, it's in the desert.

[00:27:05] Michelle Frechette: So Phoenix and Tempe.

It's the same airport there. Very, it was only 12 minutes to the Phoenix Airport, or in a desert. So I did not appreciate how dry it was. My lips are so swollen and sore from being dry. Oh, and I was like, drinking, drinking, drinking. It did not matter. So you do have to hydrate incredibly well while you're there.

[00:27:30] Nathan Wrigley: He said, says, last one. Kami got something of value from every talk that was attended. Absolutely. Okay. So it sounds like a total thumbs up from everybody so far. Yes. bravo to Raquel for putting that on and it sounds like it was a, fabulous event. Let's hope.

[00:27:46] Michelle Frechette: to be fair, there was a whole group of organizers that did a ton of work,

[00:27:50] Nathan Wrigley: okay.

Okay. Yeah. Apologies for, to them. I dunno who they are, but, yeah. Thank you for Raquel for putting it on at the beginning anyway, at least. Okay. Let's move on. Michelle wanted to mention this piece as well, and this is, a new thing, which actually I've not, it's come across before. Theme Switcher Pro.

Why have you raised this one into the show this week? So

[00:28:12] Michelle Frechette: this is, the newest, release from Web Dov Studios. I was talking to, Brad Williams, and, they said you and Dan are gonna be on post status live this Wednesday to talk about, page Builder Summit. Next week, Brad will be on to give more information about Theme Switcher Pro.

But what's really cool about this, 'cause he demoed it for me, which was phenomenal, is you could have a different theme on pages and posts than you do on the overall site. Like you can switch granularly within your website. So let's say you wanna landing, you wanna create a landing page that's a different theme altogether that lends itself really well to what you wanna do, or you want your blog to have a different look than your main theme.

You can do that without causing any issues in your site. Oh,

[00:29:01] Nathan Wrigley: that's interesting. So it's almost, yeah. Yeah. So basically you can theme different things separately. that's always been part of the deal when you sign up for WordPress Yeah. Is you get a theme and if you really wanna change things, you're gonna be Fiddling with template files, or I guess in the era of FSE, it's a little bit easier than me.

[00:29:17] Michelle Frechette: and you think about it, a lot of times people will put, they'll put LearnDash or Lifter on their website and they create a subdomain for it because they want it to have a different theme.

This way you wouldn't have to do that because you could theme it for your LMS, or you could theme it for, whatever accessory you wanna put on your website. Maybe it's a store or something like that. You can do that very, easily and you can start to switch over your site, page by page if you do wanna switch your theme without.

Ruining the whole site and having to redo it.

[00:29:48] Nathan Wrigley: Oddly, that strikes me as one of the most beneficial uses of it. Yeah, absolutely. I imagine for most people the idea of having two themes is probably more than they want, but if you are in the process of just wanting to, I don't know, you don't want to have a staging site.

You want to just over a many, weeks. You want to just slowly morph one site into another. That's so interesting. Okay, so it's, I'll just read the, blurb on it. It says, we're thrilled to unveil theme Switcher Pro, a powerful new WordPress plugin that empowers you to run multiple themes on your WordPress site simultaneously.

All built on, oh, sorry. All based on customizable conditions. that's means to me it's a classic theme. However, it says whether you are transitioning to the block editor or managing diverse content types, theme Switcher Pro offers you the flexibility you need seem. I, guess that this offer is still valid because it's on the top of the webpage.

There, there seems to be some sort of discount. 20% offer the first a hundred customers using that code there. Let's see how much it is. 'cause that's always of interest. Ah, so yeah. There and

[00:30:49] Michelle Frechette: there is no light version. This is so elite and such an amazing product that they didn't even wanna deal with.

Putting it through a light version into the repo. It really is worth a 2 99 a year for your site or your agency at 600

[00:31:04] Nathan Wrigley: that is fairly. Powerful pricing. Let's just put it that way. 299 for one website, and then opt to five websites. So that's per annum, dollars I should say. And, 5 9 9. So $600 if you want.

Opt to five websites. interesting pricing. Okay. So that's at, you can find [email protected]. Theme switcher.com. interesting.

[00:31:30] Tim Nash: Any thoughts, Tim? I quite, I was, while we were chatting and I was like, oh yeah, the sort of thing I could definitely use. I've got my, main website is, Bod, is the best way to describe it. and it's taken years to get it to migrate to a new theme because it's too bod in places and it's oh yeah, this is a process that I wanna do. Over time, I'll be honest, I was, up to the point going, oh, after this I might go and buy that. I'll be honest, when I saw the price, I went for a personal site.

Maybe not, but I can certainly see where in a professional agency you might want to use it

[00:32:05] Michelle Frechette: or let's say you just wanna switch over one site, then you really only need it for one year. You won't need it to have a subscription for it. that's

[00:32:14] Tim Nash: not how projects work.

[00:32:15] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah. One year to switch over a site you have in a laugh.

but I think that's kinda curious because if you did adopt that, you could literally change your website from one theme to another. So let's say you've got old theme and you've got this target theme where you, want it to get, and you, I don't know, you've got many, different layouts and templates and what have you.

Just being able to do it in your, hobby, spare time and just, okay, this week I'll just, I've tackled one of the pages or one of the templates, and then I'll just do another in a month or so that I can see it's, that's in fact in many ways. That feels to me like an untapped market. I wonder if it speaks to that on the, in the content of that website.

I didn't spot it that way, but that feels to me almost like a really interesting pivot to, to offer it to those very people. Okay, so theme switcher.com. Can I interrupt

[00:33:07] Michelle Frechette: you really quickly to say that I did get a text back from our. Fourth guest today, and he uses, speak to Text because the very first part as partners, especially in flight crew, I'd like to say thank you to everyone for joining us today.

Looking forward to being back here in the friendly skies. Enjoy the rest of your day and have a great weekend. Safe travel. Bye-bye now. So

[00:33:27] Nathan Wrigley: we know where that person is. That's great. Okay. That's brilliant. and then

[00:33:33] Michelle Frechette: he did say if we wanted to send him a link, he could do it from the plane on his phone, but no.

Let's let, I think we'll Fargo that

[00:33:40] Nathan Wrigley: so as Bud Kraus was supposed to be joining us, it's it, what's weird though is that I've had a morning full of Bud 'cause he is gonna be on the Tavern podcast in a few days time, and I've spent the whole morning listening to the interview and editing it. So it's I've had much, I've had Max Bo Bo during the course of this morning.

Oh, I'm sorry that it didn't work out. maybe the flights got delayed or something like that. We're back to the chickens. By the way, I'm just gonna put this out there for people who joined us slightly later. This is our. This is what we're running during the course of this episode. If you, I saw this sign something of the chickens.

If you're fancy putting something into the, the comments, you can put your own thing, doom Speaker.

[00:34:25] Michelle Frechette: The

[00:34:26] Nathan Wrigley: chicken. I like that. That's, oh, airport. That's actually really good. I like that airport announcement of the chicken.

[00:34:38] Tim Nash: Cameron, just to check, is Cameron in play? That bud or that the, yeah, Oh, I see. Wait, where we spread this?

[00:34:46] Michelle Frechette: I dunno, but man, I'm camera was 30 years older. I'd marry that man.

[00:34:51] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, okay. So this doesn't contain the words chickens, but I've gotta say it's profoundly good what

Dave has written in just what, the clock. That's great. So back to the, plugin in question. Where's it gone? There we go. Theme switch approach. Switch approach. at that price point, Lawrence is saying, we'll soon see alternatives, price lower. That's interesting. So first, first mover.

Yeah. First mover, is the idea there. dah, And then plug WordPress plugins from A to Z. Oh, thank you. Hello. Nice to have you with us. Have not seen this in years, but there was a plugin years ago for something like this. Glad that it might be, glad to see it might be perfected.

[00:35:39] Michelle Frechette: That's great. Okay. Who's behind the, who's behind that?

[00:35:43] Nathan Wrigley: plugins. A to Z. oh. Oh my goodness. Do when you forget a name and you feel really bad about it? Oh, my, Hey, A to Z tell

[00:35:52] Michelle Frechette: us who's the person behind this person.

[00:35:55] Nathan Wrigley: I respect this person. I go back a long way listening to this person's podcast now I've completely blanked on their name.

I am so sorry about that. I feel terrible. Wow.

[00:36:07] Michelle Frechette: Maybe they'll, fill in the blank for us.

[00:36:12] Nathan Wrigley: brain there. I do apologize. He's gonna put his name in there and I'm just gonna slap, actually, I can't slap my forehead. I've got this one. but let's move on. So the next one, this was brought into the show today by Michelle as well, is Yost DeVol, not the person. And this is called the unintended consequences of making SEO for everybody.

what did you make of this? What was, the reason you brought this to our attention?

[00:36:37] Michelle Frechette: I just love when somebody can look back on a project and say, this is what went really well. This is where we wish we'd done something a little bit different. And I think we can all learn from those kinds of things.

And he's not saying by any stretch of the imagination that yo's the plugin, you should just give up on it, for sure. Not like that at all. But the idea that you create a tool that people then use over rely on the tool is what I got from it. So like you have, I am only writing to make it turn green, in the, traffic light type situation.

And that makes sense, right? if you write first and then you keep changing your keyword so that it turns green, you did not write it well, right? So you should have your keyword first write around what you're talking about as opposed to, what did I write? Okay? We keep changing the keyword until I, it matches what I wrote kind of thing.

So you really, you should be planning for content, not planning for the tool. Is

[00:37:37] Nathan Wrigley: what

[00:37:37] Michelle Frechette: I got outta it.

[00:37:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it was interesting. by the way, John overall, hang on, just to check, is

[00:37:44] Tim Nash: that John of the chickens

[00:37:46] Nathan Wrigley: say that? Oh, that's so good. no, it's John or Jonathan overall as I know him as Jonathan.

and it says, where did John go? and yeah, so I took from this article that, that in some ways there were bits and pieces that they built into the tool, which if they had their time again, they wouldn't add in. 'cause there came to be this reliance on, the tool. Tells us, like one of the things that he says is the green, the traffic light system that they put in.

That in hindsight became a crutch for many people. If it wasn't green, it wasn't Right. And, this sort of anecdotal thing that he said one day, Google likes 300 words articles that got mis misinterpreted as Google said, write 300 words at least. Whereas that wasn't the case.

And I think it's a call for just, authoritative, genuine, human innovative content as opposed to don't just follow the check marks. Don't just do the thing that the plugin says.

[00:38:50] Michelle Frechette: I have a, confession. I will often hit publish without a green light. And how Jim's coming after me. Yeah, I know.

[00:39:00] Tim Nash: I was gonna say, there's an even better solution.

There's a filter to turn it off, which I have done. I've worked at a company that I worked at for previously. We had, an employee who would write blog posts to meet this traffic lights. And they were, rubbish. Yeah. And, but, and they got obsessed about it and they were slowing down. And so I just, I, one day I just turned the filter off so the traffic lights weren't there.

[00:39:25] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:39:26] Tim Nash: And they went, where'd they go? And it's I dunno. Just vanished.

[00:39:29] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah. they've dis discontinued that feature. Absolutely. Gone.

[00:39:33] Michelle Frechette: Better, and they may come

[00:39:34] Tim Nash: back. Yeah. Our, the content went up much, started, they started writing with their voice again, because

[00:39:41] Michelle Frechette: Yeah. They

[00:39:41] Tim Nash: lost the way that they wrote, the whole point for bringing them on was that, that they were the character, they were that voice.

And they, this was obviously before generative ai, but that's what they, effectively, they became so robotic, they might as well have just written the content by ai. I guess

[00:39:59] Nathan Wrigley: if you, have a voice or you're a good writer. Then you, probably never really relied on that stuff all that much, although you may have relied on it as a cue for what, when is it, optimized.

But if you imagine that you are writing just for the optimization algorithm, you, it's not gonna be probably the thing that most people wish to read. But the flip side of that is if you are a, an un-confident writer and you know the blank page is some kind of version of hell for you, then I guess it does give you something to aim towards.

have you got the right keywords in it? yeah, But maybe Yost is speaking of a day where, certainly at the moment it does seem like the algorithms are changing. People are relying on, chat GPT and that kind of thing as a mechanism for search. And I don't suppose for a minute that chat GPT will care.

Too much about, not too much, getting a green traffic light. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:55] Michelle Frechette: It's a good, it's a good check for yourself, right? I will sometimes forget to put at the bottom, if you have questions, contact us on our contact page, which is an internal link. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll be like, oh yeah, that, seeing that there are no internal links reminds me that I wanted to put that at the bottom.

Yeah. Or perhaps I forgot to write, the excerpt. Yeah. Yeah. It'll tell you things like that. So I use it for more for that than did it turn green? but it's a good, and did I get all my alt texts in where it needed to be and things like that,

[00:41:24] Nathan Wrigley: okay. this was Yost, obviously of the company, Yost as was now with project, sorry, progress planner.

And, may, maybe some of this is, serves their goal as well, in a way. So it's, the piece was called The Unintended Consequences of Making, SEO for everyone. And, you can find it on Yost, JO Ost blog.

[00:41:48] Michelle Frechette: Technically my boss for the only job I do have. okay.

[00:41:51] Nathan Wrigley: The post status. That's true. yeah, yeah.

yeah, that's good. by the way, now we've got traffic light of the chickens. I,

[00:41:58] Michelle Frechette: okay. I cannot drink coffee in the show. I'll be, it's

[00:42:03] Nathan Wrigley: gonna go everywhere. were the chickens behind the fence? No, there wasn't a chicken in sight. There was no chickens. So that's why I said maybe that's why it was blank.

there's Steve.

[00:42:14] Michelle Frechette: That's what, there's

[00:42:14] Nathan Wrigley: no chicken, Steve. That's what makes it

[00:42:15] Michelle Frechette: so funny is that there's no chickens. I Absence of the chickens.

[00:42:20] Nathan Wrigley: Abs go, absence of the chickens. okay, so there we go. That was Yost. And we have something else. If no, rapture, raptured, they've been

[00:42:33] Michelle Frechette: raptured, but would you not see feathers everywhere?

Those Dean? I'm

[00:42:36] Nathan Wrigley: just, there were no feathers. It was a blank, field with just grass in it. Oh, goodness. Ah,

[00:42:42] Tim Nash: Oh, see, there's a joke around, egg of the chicken. Chicken and the egg. I'm just trying to go with it.

[00:42:48] Nathan Wrigley: No. Oh, this, show's going downhill. I'm gonna be, there's gonna be too many titles for me this time around, but it's gonna be something I'll just probably, it, I think

[00:42:56] Michelle Frechette: it should just be blank of the chickens.

[00:42:58] Nathan Wrigley: Blank of the chickens. I like it. Okay. all right, let's move on. So that was, and the last

[00:43:02] Michelle Frechette: thing I just had, is that the next, no, the next tab. I'm sorry. Was mine as well as that, word Camp Canada's call for speakers is open. Sorry. Thank you. Yeah. And And, last year was the very first, the inaugural word, camp Canada.

and I was a, speaker last year and on a panel, which it was a phenomenal event. It was smaller than they wanted it to be. They really were hoping more people would attend. and so I'm hoping that because last year was such a success and it was such an amazing event that we'll get more people there and get your talk, applications in.

It happens to be the weekend of my birthday, so I wanna celebrate my birthday in Canada with some of my closest who press friends. So please think about attending and think about speaking.

[00:43:47] Nathan Wrigley: October the 16th to the 17th is gonna be the date. And, this piece,

[00:43:52] Michelle Frechette: it does, overlap. WordPress Accessibility day and I'm also Oh, on that.

so you have to like, listen to car or something you can all at.

[00:44:00] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that'll be interesting. okay, so there is, they could have it up

[00:44:04] Tim Nash: in one of the, one of, have a chat, have a track, which is just it's on the screen in one of the rooms. That's a great idea.

[00:44:13] Michelle Frechette: I'll put that out there for him with your idea is a really idea.

I'll put your name on it though. Tim. A idea.

[00:44:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Why wouldn't you do that? That's curious. Okay. That's interesting. Okay. Anyway, call for speakers. Word Camp Canada, or it's actually called Word Camp A, WCEH 2025 happening, like I said, middle of October 16th to the 17th, 2025. And the call for speakers is open until the 15th of June.

So you've got plenty of time to think about that. what's this say? Copy, friends, naming. There you go. The one, with all the chickens. I don't

[00:44:47] Michelle Frechette: So the fr the friends television program always was the one with, and they would

[00:44:51] Nathan Wrigley: fill in the blank. Okay. The one with, of the chickens. I get it. I get it.

Okay. Thank you Dave. I appreciate that. That makes sense to me now. Perfect. I never was a big friends watcher. Everybody else seemed to find it astonishingly funny. I found it like watching. Paint dry. But anyway, we go, I've just aged myself, right? So we're onto to Tim's stuff. Tim comes on this show very frequently and Tim does a lot of stuff.

But Tim, as he admitted at the beginning of the show, he is not, he's not that familiar with self-promotion. He's, very good at giving a lot of himself, but doesn't ask for much in return. However, we're gonna make him promote his, let's see how uncomfortable this gets. We're gonna make him from you.

Yeah, we're gonna make him promote. You'll

[00:45:34] Michelle Frechette: do it. Yeah, you'll do it

[00:45:35] Nathan Wrigley: and you'll enjoy it. Damn it. he has got a, new offering. the website is gonna be dead easy to remember. It's WP Security 1 0 1, so the numbers 1 0 1 com WP security oh one.com. And, the headline is, take your WordPress security skills to the next level.

Tim Nash. Okay. Tim. Engage difficult, difficult part of your brain. Yeah. To to engage, but engage it. Anyway, give us the marketing speak. Tell us why you've done this, who is it aimed at, and, all of that good stuff.

[00:46:10] Tim Nash: So before I do that, to give you an idea how terrible I'm. Yeah, I've owned this domain name for nearly 10 years.

Okay. That's,

[00:46:18] Michelle Frechette: I am proud of you.

[00:46:20] Nathan Wrigley: Can I just for doing something with it

[00:46:21] Michelle Frechette: eventually,

[00:46:22] Nathan Wrigley: just to be clear, I don't think there were too many problems in WordPress security until about the 28th of April, I reckon 2025. Then it got really serious. There were just, and I can see the future being really bleak, okay.

With that said, go on. yes,

[00:46:39] Tim Nash: so that's why I've owed this to me name for a while. I've been thinking about this for a very long time. I originally, when I was first, I, when I finished I, many years ago, I was running a dev agency and as I was coming to the close, I was thinking, what do I want to do?

And actually at the time then I was thinking, I really think wish there was a really good WordPress security course. 'cause what tends to be is a either these very superficial courses, which ultimately are install, plug in to have a nice day. Everything will be fine sort of level or.

There are a few super, super deep, really complicated courses designed for penetration testers and people in the security space. What there wasn't was an in-depth sort of fundamentals course on WordPress security for WordPress professionals themselves and. So I was like, I'm gonna do this, but I need to do it justice.

And so I ended up going along and it took about, six years or so from going I think I've got the idea basics down now for making this into a course. And I've ran parts of this before as workshops, and I've worked with agencies to train their staff. So I've taken all of that knowledge. I've distilled it down into a professional development course.

So this is meant as a professional development course for WordPress professionals. It's not a course necessarily for developers or for, system administrators. You don't need to know how to run servers and the, and how to write code. But it is for somebody who works with WordPress every day. And it's probably best suited for people who have cl WordPress who work with WordPress for on behalf of clients.

the course is going to be made up of nine modules. it's a learn at your own pace, but there are modules. There are labs, there are quizzes. At the end, there is an examination at the end to see if you've done, if you've got all of it

[00:48:38] Michelle Frechette: serious

[00:48:39] Tim Nash: and certification, which will be valid for a specific period of time.

So it's something that I hope over time will become a standard that will be, people will be able to, you'll be able to say, I did this course, here is my certificate, and there'll be a way of your employer verifying that. So I, am hoping that means that it comes with a little bit of, gives a little bit of professionalism to a space that currently actually lacks that unless you go down a security pen testing qualification route.

And yeah, it's not for sale today. Today I launched the website. A lot of it's been done. I'm, not willing to put anything on sale, even a massive discounted price until I've completely, filmed all of the content. But if you register your interest, you can get on the mailing list. I'm gonna be sharing some of the modules ahead of time with the mailing list exclusively.

So you'll be able to see some of the content. And once I finished recording and I have another block of recording to do, I need to go get a haircut and beard. What, once that recording block's done, I'm gonna put the course on for presale just to the mailing list at a discounted price. The goal is to have, give it, open it up to everybody else and launch it fully launched at the end of May.

[00:50:02] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. Is that salesy enough? Yeah, no. Firstly, well done. I know that doesn't come naturally to you, but that was brilliant. Secondly, dear listener, Tim comes onto the show and obviously we all adopt a bit of a persona, don't we? We're all jolly and we talk and have a nice time, Tim.

Is the real thing. Tim knows his stuff. I'm not really a developer. I can hack my way at PHP and I'm dangerous. Tim is not me. Tim really understands what he's talking about. And so this won't be some sort of Tin Pot course thrown together without thought. I'm saying that I haven't seen it, but I know you, I trust you.

And, the version I'm

[00:50:44] Tim Nash: sending to Nathan is gonna be Yeah. Yes.

[00:50:47] Nathan Wrigley: Install plugin smile. Yeah, that's right. I unlock. Can I ask you to

[00:50:51] Michelle Frechette: scroll all the way to the very bottom? I can. The absolute last thing on here. I was delighted. Where is the cookie banner? The site doesn't use tracking cookies for its analytics.

[00:51:01] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. I

[00:51:01] Michelle Frechette: love that.

[00:51:02] Nathan Wrigley: nice, nice. That is very

[00:51:03] Michelle Frechette: cool.

[00:51:04] Nathan Wrigley: because you

[00:51:04] Michelle Frechette: expect, especially from out of the uk, you expect that banner pop up to be like, yeah. Do allow.

[00:51:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. so let's just run through the form, sorry, the nine modules. So just to give you some sort of oversight I suppose, of what's going on.

The first module is introduction to WordPress security. There's a bullet point list. I won't go through it all, but then, then, Discussion of user management. That's module two. Module three is update management, all crucial things, browser security. That's interesting. That is fascinating. I, didn't even think that would be something I would need to worry about, but of course it is.

configuration management is module five. Then we move to module six, hosting and backups. module seven monitoring. Module eight. The real hole in my knowledge, would be this one, compliance. And then, module nine is called that one, putting it all together. So the intention is to have this launch by the end of May, but if you were listening carefully there, you'll have noticed that there's a register, form on the page.

And if you put your name into that email list there, then you are gonna get a special offer when the course first drops available only to the people on that list. So once more, WP Security 1 0 1, learn from one of the best from Tim Nash, all about WordPress security and good luck with that. Tim. How far have I gone?

Right through the, recording of it. 'cause that is a painful process. I know. Only too well

[00:52:31] Tim Nash: Yeah, we, are. Over the two thirds mark now. Oh, great. Okay. Wow. And everything, most of this is now scripted out,

[00:52:38] Nathan Wrigley: so yeah, that is well done. Okay. So it's definitely coming around. self-promotion of the chickens.

That's so good. That's so good. Kami says she's excited to sign up. That's brilliant. oh, that's lovely. Certification is a good idea. Showcase on their LinkedIn and Resumers. Just out of interest, obviously in, in the uk so I'm directing this question at Tim, but it's, in reply to what, Patricia just said.

When you are thinking about your certification, what does that mean? Will it just be a sort of authorized by Tim Nash kind of thing or is there some other thing in the background that you can bring to bear on that? And I'm sorry, that sounds very ignorant

[00:53:24] Tim Nash: that no, it's not, and it's something that, there are like professional level bodies that will allow you sub-license use to use their name on your certification.

But it, researching it, it really was like, oh wait, I just have to pay you. And then you are saying my certificate's valid. That doesn't make my certificate valid, that means I've just paid you.

[00:53:48] Michelle Frechette: Yeah. Surely

[00:53:49] Tim Nash: that's not how this works. Yeah. And the more I dug in, the more I realized, oh, it's exactly how it works.

so there are those sort of bodies, and you can even people like, Citi in guilds you can, which is and then you probably haven't heard of for a long time, but, yeah, it was, so there are those sort of bodies Initially on the first version, it is going to be, hey, slightly relying on my own name and saying this has been, you've been on the course by Tim.

This is, and. What I'd love to do is be able to ultimately partner with a a, another body as well so we can combine those, that certification. But that's a down the road, that's not something that's gonna be offered initially and it's finding the right partner because as I say, the ones that I've come across pretty much just want me to give them a large quantity of money so that their name is on the certificate.

Which doesn't seem to bring any more value to, and it certainly wouldn't bring value if I had to raise the price of the course up by a grand to. Pay for somebody's name that nobody's gonna care about, that's not gonna work in anyone's interest. No, that's

[00:54:56] Nathan Wrigley: not in anybody's best interest. Okay. Thanks for answering that.

Patricia has a different thing. She says, all the best for the launch, Tim, I know the feeling to have the idea take years before you actually do it. Yeah. Lawrence is, it's either don of the chickens or, it means that he spelled out your email, list. I imagine it's that. so Kami, I think I said already is excited to sign up and a very technical question.

what LMS did you use? Maybe that's decided.

[00:55:26] Tim Nash: I was gonna say, this is a, this is the fun bit I have. I, knew that if I stood did the LMS and built the site out first, what would happen is the course would never get launched. Yeah. So when the course content's in place, then I'm going to work on the LMS side of

[00:55:41] Nathan Wrigley: things.

Yeah. Too, right? 'cause you end up worrying about all the padding and margins and obsessing for days about how the LMS will fit around your content.

[00:55:49] Tim Nash: Yeah. so at the moment there is one

[00:55:51] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:55:52] Michelle Frechette: Have you, you don't have to say which, but have you selected one?

[00:55:56] Tim Nash: I have it narrowed down to two, one of which is a WordPress platform plugin.

free because there's also the option of custom coding something, which is the one I'm tending to lean to I thought I am looking at. there is an LMS PLA plugin that I'm looking at. I've discounted most of them for various personal reasons, and then I've also been looking at, SaaS product because ultimately do I want to.

Deliver the course and manage the course, or do I want to manage the WordPress side? And it is finding that balancing point. I think because of the nature of the course, it would be really odd if I went down the SaaS product route. So I'm probably going to lean into doing something.

[00:56:40] Michelle Frechette: It would say, do your work elsewise, because maybe it's not secure as the security expert did not do work.

[00:56:53] Tim Nash: I but they, then again, I, always try to use the tool that's best for the job and sometimes we're processing the best tool at that time. It doesn't mean it can't be made the best all, and it can't, doesn't mean that the, you couldn't make it the right tool, but if you need something quickly building something out.

In WordPress doesn't always gets just the next

[00:57:11] Michelle Frechette: communicated from the WordPress community. Goodbye. Yeah.

[00:57:17] Tim Nash: this is why I'm not allowed to sell anything. Michelle. here's, I've often said,

[00:57:20] Michelle Frechette: just because you have a hammer, every problem is not a nail. And WordPress applies to that as well.

[00:57:25] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's true.

Just a quick question, Tim, do you intend to do community around this? In other words, are you, 'cause part of the thing that I think is quite interesting about these kind of things is collaborative learning. And I don't know if that's something you wanna be involved.

Having a community is hard but also rewarding

[00:57:44] Tim Nash: it. It is. so what I've, done a fair bit of a little bit of feedback and the feedback was overwhelmingly, we don't want a community for security because everybody wants to learn about security. I hope everybody does, but it's very difficult space for you to open up your problems.

[00:58:02] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay.

[00:58:04] Tim Nash: and so that community's gonna be a very weird community. It's not gonna be a community that shares,

[00:58:09] Nathan Wrigley: yeah,

[00:58:10] Tim Nash: it's gonna be a community that wants to broadcast, maybe its successes, but a very unlikely to broadcast it. Their failures. Okay. And a community is only really useful. When you get a mix of both.

[00:58:21] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's a good point. I like it. That's a good answer to that question. Lawrence is saying it could be a one one course with one lesson. Do not use wp. Okay. and I dunno what I did wrong here. it says, wait. Cameron says, wait, can we get Nathan to say that word again? That was funny. I say resumes.

What

[00:58:44] Tim Nash: is that? I think, resume is the,

[00:58:48] Nathan Wrigley: how do you say it,

[00:58:49] Tim Nash: Tim? Resume.

[00:58:52] Nathan Wrigley: You say resume as well. I say resume. I always have said, everybody that I know says that as well. Not that I. Have a great deal of, interactions with people where we all gather around. And same as well, I've got news for you,

[00:59:03] Michelle Frechette: Nathan.

That is a very small pocket of the population the way you do.

[00:59:09] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. There's the title then Resume of the Chickens. Okay. What you actually say is

[00:59:15] Tim Nash: cv.

[00:59:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's the easiest way to do it. Yeah. Thank you.

[00:59:19] Michelle Frechette: Much better.

[00:59:20] Nathan Wrigley: okay, so there we go. There was Tim's, first bit, however he has more to share with us.

This week's it's,

[00:59:25] Michelle Frechette: we're already an hour in and we haven't Oh, I know. No, but this is

[00:59:28] Nathan Wrigley: nice. It's really nice. This is awesome, isn't it? It's so lovely. I'm really enjoying this and it's really nice that the content isn't all driven by me 'cause I have proclivities that are not, what everybody wants.

Okay. I'm looking at a GitHub repo. It's called Better Fox. What is it, Tim?

[00:59:44] Tim Nash: as most people who are regulars, probably know through the various technical glitches that happen with this platform. And me in particular, I'm a Firefox user. I think it's really important that we have an open source browser that is a good competitor to Chrome, whether or not you use a chromium based brow.

So day-to-day it's really important that we still have this open source browser available. And so this is DataFox, it's a set of, configuration files to make Firefox better, from a security perspective, a privacy perspective, but also from performance, lots of tweaks and edits and things you can do.

And it's one of these, awesome list type repos where there's just lots of little things you can pull out of. So if you're a Firefox user, you haven't seen this check outfox, you can pinch bits that you like for your browser. 'cause that's the real, one of the really nice things about Firefox is that you can.

really customize it, turn into anything. Can I just ask,

[01:00:52] Nathan Wrigley: is this basically changing things in the config file of the break? So it's not extending Firefox, it's just, it's setting settings which might be available, flags and things like that, might be available, but hidden from the, UI and things.

yeah,

[01:01:07] Tim Nash: though, the config file itself in Firefox can be modified with JavaScript. So these are your notes. These are all JS files. Yep. So you can then do all sorts of if you can have, configs change based on certain things happening and you can get JavaScript to change it and variables and bits in it.

So it's a very much, it is ultimately just changing config flags, but you can do that on a per tab basis or however you want it.

[01:01:35] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, great. So, better Fox, I'm gonna put the link in the show notes, but it's, it's no, it's not that difficult. Difficult, you can get, you can Google it if you Google.

Yeah, you Google it. Okay. That's probably the best way to do it. better Fox. and also, interestingly, you just before we hit the record button, I said, I downloaded and installed on my Mac a Firefox derivative, which looked like Arc. Do you remember the browser that everybody raved about for a while?

And actually there's a file in here called Zen, and I imagine that's something to do with it because that, browser is called Zen. I've forgotten. And it's, basically the arc skin. with Firefox under the, belly. and I loved the akin, it's multiple windows at the same time, or three or four windows.

You can tile the windows that as you see fit there. There wasn't much beyond that was of interest, but that was particularly useful. okay. Better Fox was one of the ones. And then, back to Tim's, stomping ground. We've got a security piece fake. It's patch stack, fake security vulnerability.

Phishing campaign targets WooCommerce users. Of course it does. oh, why, but tell us, what's going on.

[01:02:50] Tim Nash: I picked up this article for two reasons. the first was there's a fake security vulnerability for paid targeting Blue Commerce users doing rounds. yeah. actually when I went to start to do a little bit of digging to, for this, 'cause I was gonna contact my own clients, I actually realized that it's a relatively small, I know they describe it as widespread big scale.

Big scale spam and this sort of phishing campaign. It's not that big, but it's, what it is interesting is to see when people pick up that these phishing campaigns have been happening and they're developing. And there's a, I think I, I read the article and I was a bit, it was a bit of a mean comment, but I read the article at the end of this, I, turned around to a friend and said, do you think they got caught in this scam?

'cause this is the sort of thing that you see how, 'cause that's how these would make the news in the first place. But I think it's a really important that we do these articles and we do tell people when these are happening because it is so easy to fall for it. Oh God. And phishing emails are getting better.

so much better. Historically, you could spot a phishing email because of the spelling mistakes, the weird grammar issues, the fact that it looked wrong. But now. Bad actors have access to chat GPT.

[01:04:12] Michelle Frechette: Yeah. Yeah. They can

[01:04:13] Tim Nash: just say, make convincing email phishing attack chat. GT goes, sure. I'll make you a convincing phishing attack.

Here you go. They don't even need to have to guess what might pull on your heartstrings. 'cause they can just get the AI to do it for them. So this is a really good example where you end up on a page that looks like a WOO page and it's telling you to download the patch. Now that should ring alarm bells for a lot of people.

Yeah. And it doesn't know. Yeah, because a pa, that's not how WooCommerce does. Its updates. You do your updates through the WordPress admin area, or if you are in a dev agency that's using Composer or something like that, you do it that way. You would never have a patch that you'd have to download and install.

But plenty of other pieces of software do have a patch that you can download and install. So we, you recognize the words. It sounds super scary. And obviously anything with security we take seriously and we deal with straight away,

[01:05:14] Nathan Wrigley: like making a course, for example. Yeah, we do. They definitely don't, they don't gla on

[01:05:18] Tim Nash: that, but so people will go and install it and once you've installed the patch Oh, things happen.

Yeah. Mix all your passwords and sets you up to DDoS, other people's sites. I'm not so worried about this particular phishing attack I wanted, I thought it was a really good, that Patch Decker highlighting this is a concept and as always, never ever trust something that comes in an email that says download something.

[01:05:42] Michelle Frechette: Yeah. Or

[01:05:43] Tim Nash: even click me as a link. Especially if you didn't ask for it.

[01:05:47] Nathan Wrigley: I just think the playbook that these people must be running off is so refined now. there's just so many errors that they've made in the decades that they've been doing it, and now it's, like even to, to the point that, I don't know, they bought the domain security woocommerce.com.

That all looks legit. if you just glance your eye up to, where's this, you see the word woocommerce.com, you might not pause the bit in front of it, but also the landing page where they send you looks really legit. I'm showing it on the screen. it just, I, actually don't know what the Woo landing page for this might look like, but that looks fairly credible.

It's

[01:06:23] Tim Nash: even got the new branding.

[01:06:25] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, exactly. yeah, there's no red flags. There is, there's nothing shouting at you as, look, this just looks poorly executed. And again, chat, GPT could quite easily scrape anything from anywhere and give you it back. but thank you. Thanks for your insight on that. And, that's led to scam.

The chickens. I, knew this game would work. I'm so pleased. That's great. Oh,

[01:06:49] Michelle Frechette: Cameron.

[01:06:50] Nathan Wrigley: and just back to the theme switcher plugin. John is back and he says it's, based upon a very old plugin. It looks to be from the same developer. Did you say Brad? I think, Brad Williams. yes. The original code is still on GitHub, so thank you for that.

That was good. Know, Okay. I'm gonna just whiz through a few of the bits and pieces that I thought we'd raised. There was a few bits in here, but basically if you haven't been inspecting your WordPress website over the last couple of weeks, it will have all ticked over, hopefully automatically onto WordPress 6.8.

There's quite a lot that has been unpacked on this show about that, but I wanted to just mention that Bigot and the crew at Gutenberg Times have created an article all about the different bits and pieces that is in there, along with, just some other content from around the WordPress space. So I will, I'll put that into the show notes and where am I gonna go next?

self-promotion. I'm sorry. I chatted to Ryan Welcher, who's an magician, and he spoke to me, when I was in Manila at Word Camp Asia, all about what is new in, 6.7 it was at the time, but also 6.8. And he talked a lot about, the APIs that are new in WordPress. I'll just highlight it here. the block Bindings, API, the template registration, API, preview options API.

And although it's not an API, the data views, as well. So if you wanna know about all of the different bits and pieces, Ryan really is a jolly good expert. One thing that Ryan does, he has a YouTube and a Twitch channel. And I, it is called Ryan, what is it called? Ryan Welcher Codes, I think all as one word, Ryan Welcher Codes.

And, if you've got a problem in the block editor, something that you as a developer can't see your way past, he does live coding and he's open to suggestions. So if you've got something that is really causing you to pull your hair out, and you can get it to Ryan, he, he does on a weekly basis, tries to unpick not only problems that he thinks are interesting, but other problems that people send him.

So that's could be interesting for people out there to watch as well. we stray away from this pro. We, stay away from this topic quite a lot, but, I thought it would be worth mentioning maybe there's a, I don't know, maybe there's some sort of sea change going on at the moment.

Matt Mullenweg posted a piece on the 20 sec, 22nd of April, and when I read it, I didn't quite, I didn't get the context of it, but it was just called WordPress Jubilee. It's on wordpress.org. So it, went out to, I don't know how many tens of thousands of people it was, obviously,

[01:09:27] Tim Nash: millions.

[01:09:28] Nathan Wrigley: Millions. Okay. Thank you. Because think

[01:09:30] Tim Nash: about it, it's installed on every WordPress website. Yeah.

[01:09:32] Nathan Wrigley: Good. yes. Thank you. Good point. and so the context of it was lost on me at the time because the piece just called WordPress Jubilee, and it turns out that Jubilee is a word which, Catholics resonate with, but I'm not Catholic and didn't know what that word meant.

So I didn't quite get the title. I thought Jubilee to me is like celebration. It's almost like you could substitute the word for party or something like that. and the piece says, as I said, we're dropping all the human blocks, community guides, directory, guidelines, and as such, and as such, we'll need to be followed going forward.

But whether blocks were in place, before are now cleared, it may take a few days, but pre-existing blocks are considered to be considered bogs to be fixed. And I, genuinely, I wasn't sure what that meant. But then, a little bit of context came the following day, and I think on Twitter and various other platforms, the.

There, there'd been a whole bunch of people being blocked from a variety of different things. for example, the WordPress, slack and make wordpress.org. And so it turns out I'm now looking at Matt's personal blog. It's ma tt and this piece is called Reflecting And I didn't realize that Matt is Catholic.

The, Pope. Obviously, if you are a Catholic, this would've been terribly important, but the Pope passed away, very recently and it seemingly, it caused Matt to have a reflective moment. And he said that he's gonna start on blocking. ev I think everything. So if you are one of the people that did get caught up in the block and there's a bunch of people in the UK who got caught up in that, the block should disappear.

And so then going back to this comment on WordPress, do org this bit here where it says, dah, pre-existing blocks are considered bugs to be fixed. What I'm reading in that is if you are still blocked, that's an error. and it should, your account should come back online. So I don't know if that, if I'm pausing that correctly, but it feels like anybody that had been blocked for.

Reasons concerning WP Engine and the litigation around that. Correct. Those blocks will be undone. I think anybody who was blocked, in ways prior to that or for, I'm using air quotes, legitimate reasons prior to that, they would presumably still be blocked.

[01:11:57] Michelle Frechette: I would hope so, because I. Have been instrumental in getting two bad people with fake accounts blocked for submitting pornography to the

[01:12:06] Tim Nash: Okay,

[01:12:07] Michelle Frechette: photo project.

So I would assume those blocks would remain in place, for example.

[01:12:11] Tim Nash: Okay. There is nothing to say that's the case. No. The implication, so the implication is what? That, that it's related, but the, there's either two there. The backend system is obviously less than transparent for WordPress and how things get blocked.

It's less than transparent. It just.

[01:12:30] Michelle Frechette: Happens. I've had conversations that would say that the people who have submitted pornography, for example, will not be unblocked

[01:12:38] Tim Nash: good, but the, there i, there isn't any indication as to whether reasons are lodged and explained in the blocking process. So there could wa the, if that's the case, then the only route really would be to go through them and either, oh, I see manually go, oh yeah, do you remember Matt?

Do you remember if you unblocked this guy? Do you remember this one? or that you have to take the opposite approach, which is unblock everybody and then reapply the blocks to the one. It is a

[01:13:06] Michelle Frechette: manual process in unblocking people is my understanding,

[01:13:10] Nathan Wrigley: because thinking about that, there is a, there is an opportunity for that to go quite badly wrong, isn't there?

So if, the unblocking were on mass and it was more or less of a, okay, tick the box. unblock all for want of a better word. Then there may be some people who, that

[01:13:28] Michelle Frechette: kind of amnesty is perhaps not warranted.

[01:13:31] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. But also, can you imagine if like people still in the community who might then, I don't know, suffer because somebody's been reintroduced who was legitimately kicked out, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So they're being very thoughtful

[01:13:45] Michelle Frechette: in how they're approaching it. Okay. I'll say that.

[01:13:46] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Anyway, so that marks a, an interesting shift in the relations with the community over the last few weeks. And let's just see how this goes. There was a call from there, people, I think for this to happen, whether or not bridges have been burned, I, don't know.

We will, let's wait and see, but there we go. WordPress Jubilee and reflecting over on the. Blog Right to What is useful for us to do in the time that remains? 'cause we don't have a great deal. Alright, let's we about 15 minutes left. Yeah, we've got 15 minutes. But there was a fair bit in there.

I'm just gonna raise this one first. Pascal Bler, who is a Googler, but working exclusively, I think a hundred percent on the WordPress project. he has created, or at least he's got a demo of how to create a, carousel block using just WordPress and CSS. Now, I know that carousels have maybe gone out of favor and what have you, and I think probably that's to do with, whether or not they're accessible, whether or not they bring in a massive JavaScript library.

But, Pascal is showing a way that you can do this now inside of, WordPress just basically using CSS. I'm really astonished I. By what CSS can now do. I am no expert and I don't really push the boundaries with anything like that. But when I watch people online doing things with just CSS, I'm amazed that, the lack of dependencies and the lack of JavaScript libraries that you need to bring over nowadays, I.

So this is that this is, Ryan building a CSS carousel inside of a WordPress block. And you can see, I, if you are listening to this, apologies, there's a bunch of, CSS files and, all the associated bits and pieces that I can't describe but well worth looking at. it's interesting

[01:15:40] Michelle Frechette: to me is how many carousels we still see in places like news and television.

So for example, if you go to Hulu and you log into your Hulu account, it's going to scroll through and show you a bunch of new movies they want you to watch.

[01:15:53] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it's a great.

[01:15:55] Michelle Frechette: It's a really great, it has its place.

[01:15:56] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. It's got a re That is a really great interface for that, isn't it? 'cause you basically on a tv, you've got what up, down, left.

Really that's all you've got on the controls and just clicking. You get into that doom scrolling sort of thing there don't you, trying to find the next film for tonight's viewing. The carousel runs out. I like it. I personally, I'm quite drawn to it and there are some really neat examples down here, leveraging CSS, which are not the norm.

So with it, with a slider, I'm usually anticipating things to go from left to But he's demonstrating that you could, I don't know, have buttons which are, arranged up to down Yeah. In a stack. Yeah. Horizontally or vertically. But also there was a curious one, I dunno if I can find it.

Where's it gone? There was a really unusual one where it almost looked like you were in some sort of 3D Oh, it's gone. Or maybe it was part of this video. I don't know where it looked like you were in some sort of 3D. I know everything was there. There. That, one. Where's it gone? Where's it gone? Come on, wait for it. No, I'm not gonna find it. Maybe I'll find it. Maybe I'll There that. Look at that. Don't you think? That's really cool. it's cool. Probably not accessible, but anyway. There you go. Well done Pascal. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.

[01:17:12] Tim Nash: Anything on that, Tim? slider goes. We,

[01:17:16] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. Yeah, it does.

It does. You need sliders on your security, for those nine modules, Tim? Yeah. There's a slider there waiting for it. Okay. speaking of courses, there's, this came across my, came on my radar. I actually don't remember who did this. It was one of those moments when I was scrolling on Twitter.

I saw it and then opened up a tab and then went on and did something else. So my insincere, apologies for the person who's obviously put their heart and soul into this, but I haven't remembered their name. I'm sorry about that. But it's the full stack digital.io, WordPress block creator series, and they have a, an entirely free course.

On how to, exactly as it says, how to create WordPress blocks. it's a work in progress. So if you sign up, then you're gonna be into a drip campaign, which will let you know when new content is created. But at the moment, there are 10 different courses available, or 10 different modules or lessons or what have you.

So if that's your thing, yeah, full stack digital.io/wordpress block Creator course. Does anybody off the top of their head know who it is? I wouldn to the About Me page.

[01:18:33] Michelle Frechette: I their name on it.

[01:18:35] Nathan Wrigley: I know. That was the other thing. I couldn't reverse engineer their name. I went to the about USS page. Like here. I went to a variety of different places and I couldn't, oh, let's try the contact page.

I didn't try that. I bet it's a form bet. It's a form. And even on

[01:18:50] Michelle Frechette: there, oh, it's Anton Plush.

[01:18:52] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Where does it say that? How are you seeing that? On

[01:18:55] Michelle Frechette: the Calendly? On there, Calendly. Okay.

[01:18:57] Nathan Wrigley: If you go to, anyway, in that case, thank you, Anton. I don't know. I haven't tried it. I haven't looked into it, but, it's worth mentioning on a show like this.

What else have we got? Oh, if you're an Elementor user, speaking of CSS, they've got a version four coming. Elementor is just this juggernaut. If you don't use it, you probably don't really pay close attention to it, particularly. Obviously those people that do are probably obsessing about what's coming, but it's massive.

I think it's, some crazy number, like 26% of all WordPress websites. I'm just making up numbers, but it's along those kind of lines. so it's truly huge.

[01:19:40] Michelle Frechette: They've just launched their, accessibility plugin. They've just launched their biz, theme. It's crazy. They're so busy.

[01:19:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. they've got a plugin called Ally, which is endeavoring to, to spot on your WordPress website.

It's things that can be improved, and it's not bound to Elementor. It's completely separate. So it's not like an add-on to Elementor, it's a direction that they're going in. So there is a paid level to that, or, at least there will be in the future. And, and so that's a whole different wing of Elementor, if But yeah, I was chatting to, Gabriela Lata all about Elementor V four, which is a fairly seismic change to their platform, the UI and the ux. Gabriela says will be very familiar, but there'll be far less of those sort of settings where you do things like type in numbers and drag sliders for things like margin and padding.

The idea in the future is that CSS. We were just talking about Pascal Ula, that CSS will be one of the important new components in an elemental website. And so you will set, like you might do with something like Tailwind or something like that, you will set a bunch of CSS classes at the beginning of the build process.

So you'll say button like this and then you'll say, rounded corners like this blue is this. And then you'll stack rounded corners blue button. And in that way out will hopefully come a, beautifully looking button. But the point is they're trying to leverage what CSS is gonna be doing in the near future.

And also hopefully upskilling you in your CSS knowledge as well. That's one of the things. But if you are an elemental user, you, I think this is one of those moments where you'll have to start looking at what they're gonna offer. And maybe if your clients are using it, let them know that this is all coming.

Sorry, anybody wanna mention Elementor or talk about that? No. Okay. In which case, where should we go next? What did we not do? Okay, this one, BrickX another very popular. I don't think they've got the numbers of Elementor, but I know amongst a certain cohort of people, BrickX is the thing. they've, they're moving over to, BrickX 2.0.

Again, another massive refresh. as far as I'm aware, I don't use it, so I can't really, speak to it however. as always, the founder of BrickX, pretty much seems to do most of the things themselves. They do a lot of the development work, and I think a lot of the videos and things like that as well, it's pretty remarkable.

they have a video here. It is one and a half hours long where they show all of the different bits and pieces, so there's a lot to take in, but I suppose in a way that also indicates there's, there is a lot of new stuff in there. So Brix 2.0. Out and you can find out all the different bits and pieces from them.

And what else have we got? We have also got, this one make this maybe the last one with a few minutes to spare. This is WP Descriptor. I don't know whether I am, I don't know whether I trust AI with these kind of things, but the idea here is that, WP Descriptor, you'll download the plugin, activate it, and it will attempt to take out the inverted commas.

I'm doing air quotes, the dull work of creating, alt tags and descriptions for your images. reading through the blurb, it seems like you invoke an ai. The AI does its work, injects things into the meta fields for description and what have you, depending on what you've got set up for images and, it'll just work out of the can.

pricing is 1000 credits is took $20, 5,000 credits is $50. I don't know what a credit actually equates to, but maybe this is something that you've gotta do on a daily basis and you want to get out of the grind. Like I said, I'm a little bit skeptical. No, not skeptical. That sounds a bit blunt, but do you know what I mean?

I'm not entirely sure I want to hand over. Control of this to an AI judging based upon the fact that it seems to go wrong about, I don't know, one 10th of the time it just goes off, the rails. Would you trust this either of you?

[01:24:01] Tim Nash: I think if it was, if you're doing bulk uploads via ai And you're not then editing and doing editorial control, then no.

As you say, it is inevitably going to do something terrifyingly bad and put the worst case scenario in there where you're gonna suddenly go, your picture of a, of an apple will get described as some sort of scene of torture.

[01:24:22] Michelle Frechette: you are

[01:24:23] Tim Nash: gonna be there going, obviously that wasn't what I meant, but if you are presumably still reading over the description

[01:24:31] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, there we go.

Yeah. That,

[01:24:34] Tim Nash: but whether is, if you are putting an image in a page for some reason, presumably you are doing it for a reason and you want to give something over about that image over to the reader, Doesn't it make more sense to what your thoughts were with the image and the reasoning for it? Yeah.

Rather than necessarily the wider, I know that an old text should be about giving a description of an of the image, but it's of the

[01:25:00] Nathan Wrigley: what's actually in the image. Yeah.

[01:25:03] Tim Nash: But it's all context. It's still context driven and there's gotta be some sort of an image portrays feelings as much as it does.

Physicality. So I can't help but feel that you'll be losing some of your own story if you let an AI do the description.

[01:25:20] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I feel some of this busy work that we've got to do. We've we're slowly but surely just saying, okay, none of those tasks need to be done by, if an AI can do it and AI can do it, and it should do it, and it does feel that anyway, there is the product, if, that is meaningful to you and you think you can make use of it, give it a whirl.

They, they go to, they say here, what makes it different? And they say, unlike other tools, WP Descriptor doesn't just stop at SEO. It creates human friendly, engaging descriptions that connect with your audience. your images will no longer be background elements. There'll be powerful assets that contribute to your content success.

You will caveat mTOR. You'll have to try it and, see how, again,

[01:26:07] Michelle Frechette: my relationship with AI is a trust but verify.

[01:26:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. so bulk maybe is not the best way to go about these kind of things, but if You if you're gonna do the things one at a time, maybe that will work. Let's just put a few different comments.

just

[01:26:23] Tim Nash: before then in the comments, John's, John, has actually used it.

[01:26:28] Nathan Wrigley: Perfect. There we go. Oh great. Okay. So there we go. Oh, that's lovely. So we've got a ringing endorsement from John. It's a fantastic plugin. And using it since Speeda saves tons of time. That's awesome. So we don't really have time, John, but if you can, does it do a credible job?

Like of the images that you've dropped in there, does it actually give something back that you think that. Does align with what's actually in there. Would you perhaps trust it to be on autopilot even? Because that's the bit where I would worry. I would worry that it would go do all the busy work in the background and then I would be left picking up the, the pieces when it just said something.

I Century one credit is one description. Okay, thank you. That's helpful. it also helps when going back through a site lacking in the info. Okay. So that, yeah. Okay. I can imagine in a scenario where you've picked up a site and there are thousands of images that have got nothing. Definitely better to have something than nothing.

Again, the caveats that we mentioned earlier, you also get an opportunity to modify what the AI offers off. Okay. So that's great. Say so. It says very credible. in support of the Chickens, says David Wamsley. Thank you. I appreciate that. but not on autopilot. That says Jonathan. Okay, that's it.

We've, run outta time. Were there any comments that might be worth. Courses, the chickens. I think we didn't get that one in. So there's, yeah. Another, what's your favorite one? What should be the title of this show?

[01:27:56] Michelle Frechette: Oh goodness.

[01:27:56] Nathan Wrigley: It's gonna be a Chickens. Shall I go with blank of the chickens? Like a couple of underscores or something?

Should I go with that? Alright, I'm getting a nod. I did like scam

[01:28:04] Tim Nash: of the chickens and I do actually like in support of the chickens, which I think for a title works quite well.

[01:28:11] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, we'll go for that then in support. warms. Drops in right at the end and offers us that bombshell. Thank you very much.

I really appreciate it. how can I make that one go away? There we go. That's perfect.

[01:28:25] Tim Nash: Lovely.

[01:28:26] Nathan Wrigley: So there we go. That's this episode. Thank you. Appreciate it. We'll be back next week for episode number 333 with a different range of guests. Hopefully Bud is safely on his plane journey now and I will, I'll have fun emailing him.

Emailing him later. Awkward wave of the chickens. Okay, here it comes. Here it comes. The awkward wave of the chicken. There we go. whoa. There we go. That's perfect. Thank you very much indeed. It only remains Nash. And Michelle Frechette, go check out Tim's course, WP security one oh one.com and, thank you to you all you lovely people who've taken out the time in your busy schedules to, to give us your fun things about chickens.

Who knew that was even a thing? One last comment. The extra s in the plural of chickens. Okay, I'll try just to get my right. We see you next week. Take it easy.

[01:29:21] Michelle Frechette: Bye bye.