This Week in WordPress #301

[00:00:04] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for this week in WordPress episode number 301 entitled 301 segue. It was recorded on Monday the 8th of July. 2024.

My name's Nathan Wrigley. And today I will be joined by three fabulous guests. I'm joined by Taco Verdonshot, by Alex Standiford and by Rob Cairns. Because it's a WordPress podcast, you know what, we're going to talk a lot about WordPress.

We start off talking about all of the new, exciting things coming in WordPress 6.6, and there sure are a lot of them. We then move on to talk about custom fields and how you can create those in amazing ways, in WordPress 6.6.

The 2025 theme has just begun, you can contribute to that if you like.

Major releases, minor releases, Aaron Jorbin talks to me on the WP Tavern podcast about that. And we talk about whether the WP Tavern podcast is dead or not. Hint, it's not.

We then spend a massive amount of the time talking about Joost de Valk's CMS report, where he brings all the data about the growth, the decline, the full of the different CMSs out there.

We then get into conversations about some events that are coming up. So for example, we talk about Stella Sparks conference, which is online. As well as the.edu WordPress in higher education conference. And a whole lot more as well.

And it's all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of manage WordPress hosting that includes free domain, SSL, and 24 7 support. Bundle that with the hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients and get 30% of new purchases. Find out more at go.me/wpuilds.

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Hello. How are you doing, that moment when you discover that you just swallow a, swallowed a fly in your nice glass of water that's nice and you cough your way three seconds. Yeah. Cough your way through the last two minutes. AC topic already. Yeah, that's right. There's a fly in my water. it's this week in WordPress number 301.

That means we had episode 300, puts us into a completely new centenary. so join us for the next 300. It'll only take us two years to get to 400, but I'm joined to by some fabulous guests. You can see them on the screen if you're joining us. First stop. We've got Tacho, tacho, Verdon shot. I never know where to put the rise and the fall in your surname.

Sometimes I wanna say Verdan shot and sometimes Verdon shot. And you tell me which, and then in, in Dutch would be ko. I'm not doing that. That's fine. That's, why I shortened my last name everywhere. okay, let me try it. Gimme one more. Go.

Hey, I'll take it. Yeah, Good enough. I feel I butchered the end, but, there we go. Anyway, that's ko. he's been on the show many times. He is, of course, representing Yost as you can see, and he is in fact the head of relations at Yost. Co-organizer of the WordPress meet up in nai, Megan, and generally strongly opinionated.

So he says, combined with his typical Don dump bluntness, his typical Dutch bluntness that sometimes leads to, interesting conversations. Basically he, he keeps inviting himself back because he's hoping he'll say something stupid or strong enough to make WP builds go viral. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Outside of WordPress, you can find Tacho with his family on the motor trials track, or volunteering at a local charity. I'm honing in on the motor trials. What the heck? Tell me more. yeah, you know what a motorcycle looks like, looks like Uhhuh. You take, away everything you don't really need, which leaves you with an engine, a frame, two wheels and a steer.

[00:05:15] Taco Verdonshot: Yeah. And brakes. and you use that hyper optimized, a vehicle to overcome obstacles. yeah. And, you do that voluntarily. It's not like there's any coercion there, No, this is, it's a lot of fun. it's not about speed. motocross and, motor racing is all about speed, but motor trials is about control and balance.

Oh, that's so nice. Neither of which I have so it's good friend. Even better. What fun. Oh, there you go. We learned something new about Tacho today. But thank you for joining us. as always, he's our regular co, one of our regular co-hosts, so thank you for joining us again. We're also joined by There he is Rob Cairns.

[00:06:01] Nathan Wrigley: How are you, Rob? Good. And you, Nathan? Yeah. Really, good. Rob's joining us from Canada and he is the chief creator of amazing ideas of stunning digital marketing. He's a WordPress security expert. We might touch on that a little bit later. he co moderates the WordPress Global Community Group on LinkedIn, which is absolutely huge.

By the way. I dunno what the membership count is now, but I'm gonna guess it's into the 10 thousands, 12,012 good reef, he said. and his latest hobby is flying drones. Okay. Let's unpack that one as well. New. That's a new thing for you. really in the last year, I, wrote a drone license. 'cause in Canada, if you wanna fly your drone above a certain height, you have to write a license.

[00:06:45] Rob Cairns: And I'm in the drones because I wanna shoot photography from the air. So that's the reason for doing it. So I am, the shots are amazing. I totally love the idea of doing that. I've got a real, I've never bought one, but I love the idea of doing it. I remember Mark West Guard showing me some images that he took in Scotland, like flying over, castles and glens and things like that.

[00:07:06] Nathan Wrigley: And it just seemed like a really nice thing to do. so great. I think you also need a license in the uk. Pretty sure you do. 'cause you can, yeah, I'm, at an addiction problem. I own five of them and counting, so there we go. So I get a bit of a problem. That's not a hobby, that's a habit. yeah.

[00:07:24] Rob Cairns: Thanks. It's a slight difference there. But, thank you for joining us and, last but by no means least there he is. there just, there is Alex Standiford. Hello Alex. Hey, how's it going? Oh, nice. You've got a lovely rich microphone there. That's a really, thank you. A beautiful sound. Alex has got the shortest biography of, anybody.

[00:07:44] Nathan Wrigley: really? Maybe he's gonna add some more, maybe, maybe he's into, oh, it's flying motorbikes or something like that. and he, his biography simply reads, founder of Siren Affiliates. Is that all it says? I updated it, I promise. Oh, no. Okay. Okay. I will click the button. wait, wait.

Here we go. Let's see what it actually says. yeah. It's way longer. Here we go. Let's do the real one. Alex is shaking there. We. Ready? Ready. Here we go. Alex is shaken up affiliate programs with Siren Affiliates and host of the Partnership podcast. Very cool. Name by the way. Partnership. Thank you.

Get it. he's been on the show a few times talking about things ranging from his four years in traveling full-time with his family in a camper to discussions about Mastodon and the open web. So yeah. Great. Thank you for updating that. And I apologize for not, clicking refresh in my browser. It is.

Okay. Yeah. Few bits of housekeeping just before we begin. the first thing to mention is that if you are joining us and you would like to in any way contribute, we would absolutely love that. The best, In fact, increasingly the only way to do that is to go here. Go to, wp builds.com/live because LinkedIn, if you're watching it over there, their comments don't come through.

If you're watching it over on a Facebook group, their comments, they've blocked all of those in the last couple of months. so go to the website, why not? It's on WordPress, WP builds.com/live, and you've got two options. If you're logged into a Google account, you can use the YouTube comments, which are at the side on a desktop, or click the little black button in the top right of the video.

It's actually in the video and it says live chat or something like that. And if you do that, you don't need to, be logged into anything at all. So go share it. WP belts.com/live. We are always joined by a bunch of people, from all over the world, many of them telling us what the weather is like. Where they live.

Let's see how it goes. this morning, this afternoon, this evening, Cameron Jones. It must be the evening. He's joining us from Australia. I'm gonna say Brisbane, but I have no idea where he might actually be, but that's where he is. He says, good evening, Tammy sees his good evening and raises it with a good morning.

And, Lawrence Ladore, who's also in Australia, I'm guessing, is gone, taken us back to the, evening and now big. It's, she's just shot into the front with good afternoon and seconded by Alan Fuller, who's also got a good afternoon. I should do this in like it's a horse race or something. Alex, you are muted.

I can't, I dunno if you are actually muted or if you are, if the platform has muted you. I dunno. No, you're there. What I would recommend Alex, is just click refresh and I'll let you straight in. Sometimes we have these technical gremlins, so yeah, don't worry about it. and then we've got web friendly guy says, waiter, there's a fly.

Oh, okay. Yeah, there's a fly in my soup. It was water, but yes, there's a fly in my water. Can we hear you, Alex? Yep. Should be able to. Got you. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. This time, Courtney's joining us saying good morning. We've also got James Roo saying hello. This is lovely, isn't it? Check it all out. Yeah. and Marcus Bonnet is saying, hello, gentlemen, joining from 30 thou.

Oh, that's neat. What the heck? He's joining from 30,000 feet in the air on the way to Word Camp Canada. No way is that possible. That's just I know, but it's voodoo, isn't it? Every time you connect to the internet on a plane, it's no. No, This is made up and, it makes me wonder if we can do a decent inter internet connection on a plane that why do we have so many places on earth where it's so bad?

[00:11:18] Alex Standiford: Yeah, that's, they're closer to the satellites. It's gotta be better, right? Yeah. I'm guessing it's prior to starting are so fast. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. How it works. I wonder if that connection, Marcus is family approved though.

[00:11:33] Nathan Wrigley: but tha amazing. Thank you, Marcus. I'm, I take my hat off to you. I can't, there's some headphones on the top, but metaphorically, my hat's coming off. Peter Ingersol, who always drops in the weather. Here we go. thank you, Peter. He says, hello everyone. It's 25 degrees Centigrade, 78 degrees Fahrenheit, and rising here in sunny Connecticut.

This week's forecast. Hazy hot and humid. I actually thought that said lazy, hot and humid first time around. And I thought that was cool. Alan's back, he says, hi, Lawrence says, Alex is on the show. I had to watch life. Oh, that's lovely. Hey, Alan. let me see if there's anyone else saying something new.

Courtney's saying 13 and a half. 13 K. What? What? Oh, probably we do Rob, ah, the group. She's updating, the group and Lawrence is in Melbourne. okay, so here we go. This is the, skinny on the, air Canada Internet. The internet speed on Air Canada isn't bad. Really go to speed test.net, Marcus and tell us, what actually is.

That would be fun. Okay, so you see what happens. Internet speed's not bad, but literally nobody else has a connection 'cause he is eating all the bandwidth on the screen. That's screen. That's right. Yeah. He's watching a live show and everybody else is grumbling. so that's what it's like. If you want to join in the comments, please feel free to do that.

It makes the whole show a lot more fun and interesting. because we're a WordPress based podcast, we are gonna drone on largely about WordPress. And, let us begin right here. And this is our website. that is to say wp builds.com. If you want to head over there, I would recommend that you fill out this form.

It's one field and if you do that, we will notify you a couple of times a week. Really, that's it. Just when new content has been created, And if you don't like 'em, you can always unsubscribe, but stick your name in that box and then click subscribe. I'd also like to point out that as for many weeks, many, weeks, the podcast has been sponsored by GoDaddy Pro and real big thanks to them, but also fairly recently, probably about eight weeks ago or something like that, we were joined by Bluehost, which is the sister, brother, uncle, aunt.

I'm not sure of Yost, but there's a connection there. so that's nice. So thank you to them as well. And then joining us, starting off their sponsorship, was Omnis Send, and that started last week. So go check 'em out. GoDaddy Pro anomaly send, and if you encounter anybody and talk about that, tell 'em that you heard about them here on the WP Builds podcast because you know they've gotta justify their spend and hopefully it is worth their while.

Move in on. So here's the first article. It's entirely white. No it isn't. It's coming. okay. And it's, Kinta And Kinta put an article together, which I thought was quite nice to share, and it's all about what's coming in WordPress. 6.6. We're not that far away, actually. Can anybody off the top of their head remember the date?

But it's 10 days away. July 16. Yeah. Okay. So we've got eight days, to wait before 6.6 drops, and I always think it's quite nice to share articles about what is coming up. And, you can get used to things before you see them. Let's just discuss some of the numbers. A total of 299 Core track tickets were included in 6.6, which includes 392 enhancements, 462 bug fixes, and 46 accessibility improvements inside the block editor.

This article says that block pattern overrides, which we'll get to in a minute, is their favorite. And I have to say that I think I agree. we've also, this is super cool. where's it gone? Sync pattern overrides. Now this is hard to explain, but in the past you had synced patterns and non synced patterns, and if you had a synced pattern, wherever you updated it on one part of the website, all of the changes would be, percolate out to the other places where that was used, not so anymore.

You are gonna be able to drop in patterns where portions of that pattern are uneditable. So hence partially synced and, You can do that with these sync pattern overrides and I'll just read out what Kinta say about it. It says, sync pattern overrides are somewhere in between of two extremes of sync block patterns and standard block patterns.

Thanks to the block bindings API, you can now build block patterns that keep the same structure everywhere on your website and change in sync with the customizations made to the pattern, structure and style in the editor. So this allows loads of customization for your clients, but you can bind certain things so that those pesky clients, can't interfere with the things that you don't want to interfere.

However, you can change the contents of the patterns on an individual instance without affecting other instances of the same pattern on the site. I'll stop there, but there's more to say. I think that is super cool. Yeah. Waiting and anybody waiting for you thinks otherwise is crazy. I've been I was like so excited whenever I saw this was coming 'cause.

[00:16:28] Alex Standiford: If you're, coming from a background in like Figma or using like Sketch or any of those tools, a lot of them have this concept of creating a component and then overriding certain parts of it everywhere. So my brain was already trained to do that, and not having access to that in the block editor was making it was, actually a pretty big point of, frustration for me personally.

So I'm, pretty excited to update all of my call to actions throughout my site just so that they have the same copy and I can update 'em in one spot. And it's so useful. I'm really excited about it. Yeah. Yeah. Really, useful. Anything from Rob on or Taco on that one before we move down the article?

[00:17:02] Taco Verdonshot: Yeah. So I'm really curious, what this will be like for, novice WordPress users. Yeah, because you now have, before you had something that was updated in one place and would update everywhere, but now it's half. Half. Yeah. And are we going to make the UI clear enough so that someone who doesn't have a deep understanding of WordPress will be able to understand what exactly they've just edited?

[00:17:37] Rob Cairns: Yeah. a, kind of an interesting thought. I hadn't really, that hadn't really occurred to me, but you could have this massive blocks all like partially sync blocks all over the place. And the client doesn't have the impression really, of what they're doing. So the assumption is, oh, I edited it, so there's a surprise.

[00:17:53] Nathan Wrigley: And then they see it pop up somewhere else and they think, oh, I thought I'd edited that. I probably didn't click publish or something. So I'll go and edit it again. And then now we've got three copies. I wonder if there's gonna be like a rollback. I wonder if there'll be like a reset to the original. So no matter where it inherited from, that'd be interesting.

[00:18:11] Alex Standiford: And, it's not even just novices. It would even just be if it was transferred from one professional to another if I was managing this site and I inherited it or something like that. there's a whole structure that was probably created and designed that I would, I need to be able to figure out quickly.

That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Rob, anything on that or should we press on through this article? No, we can press on, but I was gonna say Taco. That's a great point. I think where we're seeing a lot with blocks and FSE is that's where the novices are jumping into. I don't think, honestly, the novices are going to the, I.

[00:18:45] Rob Cairns: Traditional page builder, they're jumping in at the ground and I really, I think they're gonna get confused with some of this personally, but, but that's, interesting. not to derail this conversation, but Marcus has just, posted a speed test in the chat, by the way, of where can is in the air. So there you go, folks.

That's pretty good to say. Just moves me that are listening. He's got 66 megabytes, I'm guessing down. yeah. Yeah. It's not what he has at home, but it's good enough for watching. Yeah, that's 10 x what you need to watch a live video's. Dude, my entire family was running on that when we were camping.

[00:19:21] Alex Standiford: Like I'd be jumping for joy. Do you, oh, do you remember the days of dial up when you used to get the, let that noise that used to every time you got on with the internet, that was so fun. And then watching any image load, you just get that, that slow. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, those are the days. Totally. I should make my site when it switches to the retro mode load, all pictures like that.

Oh yeah. Do that. That's really fun actually. Yeah, that's a great idea. That'd be super fun. Yeah, I love that. and then Tammy Lister is joining us, said people understand patterns way more than blocks. It's actually one of the least confusing areas. Yeah, that's a good point. I think, I think what we were mentioning there, Tammy, I'm sure is that I wonder if it'll get confusing if you've got Just multiple, decoupled blocks that you as, sorry, patterns that you, assumed were locked together, but, yeah, good point. Tammy. Thank you very much. Okay, let's press on. Let's move down. So this article, by the way, I should say, is on kinsler's blog, kinsler.com/blog, WordPress dash six And it's called What's New in WordPress, 6.6 Pattern Overrides Block Bindings, API Data Views, new Design Tools, and much more. Okay, the other thing that I thought after the code, which is not really suitable for this show, oh yeah, really nice. This edit custom field values from connected blocks. So you know how it works at the moment.

[00:20:50] Nathan Wrigley: If you've got I don't know, a CF or some other con confection of, of, custom fields, you might even be using the WordPress way. Then you go into the, block editor and there they are all buried at the bottom or someone like that, and you update them in there. now you're gonna be able to edit them.

Just write in the block editor, so you know, you'll see the, I don't know, let's say it's the price of a property or something like that on a real estate website, and if you want to amend it, you just. Click into the area where the price is, amend it and it'll update wherever on your site that number is used.

And, brilliant. Like totally brilliant I think. And just apropos of that, Brian Cords, did a video. It's an 11 minute video where he shows this in action. About half the video is him, demoing it, and then the other half is like more code. So I think the first half is demo. The second half is like code, if I remember rightly, I watched it from start to finish.

But that's on brian cords.com and it was on the 28th of June, 2024. It's called WordPress. 6.6 is change in. The game for custom fields. So I said that my, the, my most exciting bit was the synced patterns. Actually, I've changed my mind now. It's this, I think this is super cool now that I think about it more.

we're all using custom fields. I'm imagining if you're shipping any sort of anything really these days. And this now enables your clients to do it inside, right? Where the numbers and the text and the images and everything else are. So that's cool. Over to you guys, if you wanna say anything.

[00:22:23] Alex Standiford: I'm, I just think it's really neat. Like Brian in that video was talking about how we probably won't even need the title section in the block editor anymore because the title would just naturally be a part of the content. as one of these custom fields where, and he actually shows it linked up. Yeah.

All the and swapped over. I can find the bit. Yeah, there you go. Somewhere around here he types in the title into the cus Into the block. Yeah. And it updates it instantly and I was like, yeah, it updates. Lemme see if I can get to it. never gonna find it. Am I, there we go. Just got the tail end of it there.

[00:22:57] Nathan Wrigley: There it is. He updated it inside the block and the actual title changed. So you can imagine a scenario where don't need the title anymore 'cause it's now in a block for this Right. Particular layer. Anyway, sorry I interrupted Karen. No, it's okay. But yeah, that's, that was basically it. But like I, on my personal site I've got different post formats like, I post tweets and videos and different things and I, I think that this, whenever you talk about interesting different post formats like that, they may or may not even have a title.

[00:23:24] Alex Standiford: It's just really cool to me to think that the editor is just getting with this, it's gonna get just that much closer to, creating a one-to-one relationship. It's been trying so hard to make. It's just really cool. Yeah. Yeah, really, cool. tacho, Rob, anything on that? Or I shall press on further into the article.

[00:23:40] Taco Verdonshot: I can't wait to see how this is going to be used to create even more awesome things. Yeah, I think it'll be a, little, there'll be a bit of a moment, won't be a bit of an aha moment. a probably a bit of a, where the heck has my stuff gone? Or something like that. Like I another example real quick, sorry.

[00:24:00] Alex Standiford: I have a, plugin in the WordPress repository where like every time something like this comes out, the first thing I do is create a plugin with a beer custom post type. 'cause it has a whole bunch of different custom fields and stuff like that. And the last iteration of this, all of that data, the SRM, the color, like the, a BV and all those different values, were all in the sidebar because it's the only place for it.

And I'm just excited to see this because it's also gonna probably clear out that sidebar. A lot, ton of stuff that's just kind shoved off to the side. 'cause it doesn't have anywhere to go in the actual content. It's probably actually gonna show up in the content. So this is. I'm actually really excited about the fact that it's just gonna clean up that sidebar a little bit too, just 'cause a lot of that stuff is now moved into the actual editor itself.

[00:24:42] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that. So you're saying, oh, I don't know, whatever the custom field may be. The, bits and the pieces of that, which might have been in a sidebar the, sliders and the toggles and the numbers that you type in for this, that, and the other thing, that's all gonna now be handled in the ui.

So freeing up space, it'll empty it out basically. Yeah, that's a really good point as well. A lot of that. Okay, so that was, editing custom values. Honestly, go and watch Brian's video if you haven't checked out 6.6, the beta version, because it is pretty profound and you will get an understanding of, meta boxes are just not, probably not gonna be of all that much interest in the future.

Again, more code from Kinter explaining how to do it, and then we get this. The thing that we've been praying for, ages, the beginnings of a different admin ui and in this case the data views enhancements. And so by data views it might be, oh, I don't know, the template parts, where you view all your template parts or where you view all your posts or pages.

And this is gonna be profound. actually this is gonna make a real big difference to the way that you interact with your WordPress website. So this is definitely worth checking out in advance if you can, because you're gonna get 6.6 and be like, what? Where's the stuff? Where's the six? Where's where?

WordPress since 3.3 or whatever it was. so here look at this perfect example there. There's your pages with this ability to click on a page and instantly see the page in question. So you don't have to click, right click, open page in new tab, edit page in new tab, just in case you got the wrong one.

and all of that kind of stuff. You just click, That's, it's, a sort of nothing, but at the same time, it's a dramatic, change. Loving it. Yeah. I'm gonna take a slurp of water. Watch for the flies. Ah, yeah, I think I've cleaned them out. so that's interesting.

So it says here, for pages, a new panel provides a list of pages and allows a preview of any page with a single click. what else have we got? You'll also be able to see, I do think that, Tammy's comment here is super relevant though. Sorry. Where are we? this one, the one well also, but, okay. this one.

[00:26:57] Taco Verdonshot: The latter one? Yeah. Okay. because this might also scare people like Oh yeah. Moving everything. Yeah. I'm being chicken little. Yeah. Yeah. every, all the old stuff will still be there. Yeah. Good. Thank you, Tammy. Thank you. taco, I have to throw out though. Because we're leaving the old stuff in there.

[00:27:18] Rob Cairns: Are we causing ourselves problems down the road because we're insisting on making everything backward, compatible again? And, it's always this, and Alex is smiling at me because he knows where I'm going. It's always this balancing act, right? Is backward compatibility good or are we impeding progress and enhancements by doing that?

So I think we gotta be really careful that we find that hard line. Do you know what I mean? Like it's Yeah, no, I, get what you're saying and part of the answer is look at the four most installed plugins. the classic editor is one of the four, and that says a lot, of, Yeah, a there's a lot of WordPress sites existing that can't just update every time that we release something new, because they've existed for ages.

[00:28:17] Taco Verdonshot: There's whatever. So I do think that the backwards compatibility is extremely important. and I almost feel like we should be dragging Tammy into our conversation here. Yeah, me too. She's adding in, so many, valid points. Yeah. Thank you. and she's just added, So in answer to the, are we creating this slide in a cognitive dissonance for the future, and problems of backwards compatibility?

[00:28:45] Nathan Wrigley: She says, no, we aren't, because at some point we can remove all the training wheels. Can I ask you a question? tco, I, don't actually know if you've got the answer. Is there, any, or maybe even Alex, because you're both plugin devs, I, is there any way to ab test your plugin so that changes that you make in the UI get seen by a proportion of people and you can get, obviously then there's phoning home and all that kind of weirdness, so I'm guessing you can't, but, but it would be nice to be able to roll out this to a few people.

that's the kind of stuff Squarespace can do 'cause of it's SaaS based nature. But I was just curious as whether you run experiments like that, at you or whether you, I don't know, have beta testers that fiddle with all that kind of stuff for you, and then give you feedback about whether it's gonna be, worth actually rolling it into the core product.

Alex, go ahead. Okay. Did I look like I was gonna explode? I'm sorry. Yeah,

[00:29:45] Alex Standiford: that's funny. I think it just needs to be opt in really. You just, you give people the opportunity to beta test or test out new UIs early and they will take, some of them will take you up on it and yeah, some of them won't. yep, Good point. Okay. Tacho, anything to add or should we, yeah.

[00:30:03] Taco Verdonshot: So is it possible to ab test to a certain extent, yes. Nice. Okay. And that's where my development knowledge ends. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. More it can be done, but how it's done and when it's done is no good, anybody's guess. we're back to the planes very quickly. Marcus is playing, Cameron says that's as fast as the, or almost as fast as the Australian internet.

[00:30:31] Nathan Wrigley: That's crazy. That's fascinating. okay, so here we go. Tammy's back. This has been opt-in for a while in the Gutenberg plugin. Yeah, of course. We should mention that. If you wanna keep up with the bleeding edge of anything going on the web, speaking of web press, yeah. Go and, go and download the Gutenberg plugin, which gets all of the different bits and pieces.

You can test it, on whatever local site or development site you've got there. So yeah, go and check that out. Okay. Let me see if I can finish up this article. and there's a new publishing workflow and it says with this iteration, the unification process between the post and site editor makes a step forward, but with both editors that now have the same publishing.

Workflow and makes sense. Yeah, I think that was basically it. Oh, no. One more. starting with WordPress 6.6, the block inserter shows two groups of blocks, that you can add to a selected block and blocks that you can add below the selected blocks. Oh. You can see that. So there we go. So you get some sort of impression of what's going on there.

[00:31:31] Rob Cairns: That's good news.

[00:31:36] Alex Standiford: I have a bad habit of, a lot of the stuff I make for my sites is I'll, design a block that's literally just a block that is just a container for specific other ones. And I'll, forget which ones have which ones sometimes. So that's actually really helpful. Yeah. Nice. and then also here, block patterns in classic themes starting with WordPress 6.6.

[00:31:56] Nathan Wrigley: Classic. Yeah. Classic theme support. Easy for you to say. Nathan, supports the same pattern interface as block themes. So if you use a classic themes on your WordPress website, and I'm sure a lot of people still do, you will enjoy the same rich experience in pattern management as block themes. So that's nice, bringing everybody into the same arena.

Makes sense. So that was, that was Kinsler's take on 6.6. As Tacho said, it's coming down the pike in about, what did we say? Eight, eight days time. Yeah. It's a lot of really good stuff. Yeah. Isn't it really exciting. Yeah, that's really exciting. There's a lot of good stuff there. They, I think sometimes the reason that we get excited about this is 'cause it's a lot of UI and you can see it, you can get, you can actually see the change that you're gonna receive.

Whereas often in with WordPress, we'll get onto that in a minute. if it's like a security update, it's ah, because you don't see it, it's going on in the background and we love the visuals. So, that's, it is a brilliant, update and pushing the whole project forward.

as mentioned, go check out Brian Cords, video about the, the custom fields bit. There's one more thing that I think is coming in the 6.6 that wasn't mentioned here that I'm really excited about, actually go. they're adding a shortcut key to group blocks. So if you do control G or command G or something like that, it'll, take those blocks and group 'em together.

[00:33:21] Alex Standiford: Oh. Which is, yeah, I've, I, again, I'm coming from Figma and like design tools in the past, and I just, every time I've, as I've been using the editor a lot over the last several months, building Siren site, like I just kept on selecting multiple ones and hitting control g, expecting it to just group 'em together.

And so I actually got on GitHub and I was like, can we do this? Is this something we can consider? And somebody was like, oh yeah, this is duplicate. It's coming in six, six. Yes, let's go. Nice. Didn't even have to do the work. And Cameron, classic theme, the bot Wellis Wick. if you watch Monty Python films, you'll get the, the joke.

[00:33:58] Nathan Wrigley: It wasn't actually that funny, but it was intended to be a joke. Okay. And Tammy? probably the final one on that at least. Anyway, so it means that the, that they can use the pattern library too. So that's people with a classic, theme, Tammy is mentioned in there, so yeah, really nice.

So there we go. WordPress 6.6. And, just in case you were interested, there was an article which was on the full stack digital website. By the way, anything that we mention today will be in the show notes that we put out tomorrow. like I said, at the top of the show, if you subscribe, you'll get the show notes into your email, you get all the links and whatnot.

and this is just how you can do the same sort of thing, custom post, like with structured meta fields in WordPress, without plugins like a CF. So it was it, it's a. I, we can't really talk about it 'cause it's a code based article, as you can see as I'm scrolling through. But it was just a, an interesting tutorial on how you can set up your own custom fields and all that without, without needing, a plugin like a CF.

And then here we go. where, are we more or less? Exactly Halfway through the year. 2024. And here it is, the repo for the 2025 theme. And, it's the usual stuff. Lots of people helping would make the theme a lot better. link in the show notes, but it's basically github.com/wordpress as it always is, forward slash you guessed it, 2025, all as one word.

And the bit that struck me, I thought, Not really that revelationary, but interesting. 2025 is a block theme, as you might expect. The theme aims to ship with as and is here's the declaration as little CSS as possible. Our goal is for all theme styles to be configured through theme Jason and editable through global styles.

So pushing the sort of default theme shipping with a recent a, a new version of WordPress so that everything's done through theme JSON. So if you're not into that whole thing, maybe now is the time to get into it. it says current status as of July 1st, 2024. The theme is in the planning stages. And the ideas are being collected.

There is no design to implement yet, but if you'd like to contribute code, the list of open issues is a great place to start looking. So you know how it works in WordPress. If you don't contribute, you don't get to have your say so there you go. github.com/wordpress pla forward slash 2025. Anybody want anything to add anything to that?

[00:36:29] Taco Verdonshot: Again, we have Tammy in the comments adding, oh gosh. Valuable information. She's the best. Yes. Here we go. What'll be post out today asking for input on 2025. Perfect. Nice. So I put together these show notes, on Friday. No, I didn't. I did it on Saturday this week as a naughty boy and missed it on Friday and and so I missed it.

[00:36:52] Nathan Wrigley: so anyway. That's great. Thank you Tammy. I'm sure we'll be able to add that into next week's show and Patricia is joining us. She's catching up the first 30 minutes at speed. One and a half. Oh. Who knows what that'll be like. Yeah. Good luck catching up with Marcus in full flight. yeah, that's right.

Oh, that's great. okay, so 2025. There it is, right? Just to say, all about releases and what have you. I did an a podcast episode on the WP Tavern website. By the way, the WP Tavern is not dead. It's not, I was, wondering Go ahead, please. It's not dead. It's not been done ever. Not really. it has let's be honest, unless you're into listening to podcasts, in which case it's been just trucking every week more or less, except Christmas and, I don't know, maybe when I had Covid or something like that.

But, we're on episode number 126, and this was quite exciting. This happened just the other day. If you go to wp tavern.com now, it's there, it's on the homepage, so it's totally not dead. The, most recent podcast ends up on the, ends up on the homepage, which is nice. And I did actually notice that, it's, if you can look, this is now wp tavern.com, which is yeah, interesting.

[00:38:10] Taco Verdonshot: So it's basically WP Podcasts getting loving it. No, let's be fair. The WP Tavern at the moment. Is a podcast, but we all want the writers back, don't we? We want, people of the caliber of, Sarah Gooding, Justin Tadlock, and anybody else who's written, one or two pieces. Yeah. We want it back.

[00:38:32] Nathan Wrigley: We, want it desperately. And actually curiously, I don't know, I don't know who started it may have been Mku, or at least Mku, was in that Twitter thread asking, can we assume that it's dead now? and Matt Mullenweg who has the, leavers, I guess is the right word. Yeah. to bring it back to life.

He, I think his words were, sorry. I think he started with the word sorry or something. It's apologetic. Yeah. It was an apology, basically saying, I am exceedingly busy, as you can imagine. and that's the reason. so anyway, hopefully I felt, for Matt whenever I saw that message, actually. 'cause I, get a little, I don't know, maybe it's just some something, but like I get triggered whenever I see somebody asking if a project is dead.

[00:39:20] Alex Standiford: especially with open source things or, contribution based things. 'cause it's thi this isn't a great example of that, but I saw that and I was like, oh my gosh, I hate it when people ask that question in that frame. it just, makes it sound So much worse. And it is usually 'cause like I have a, like any kind of open source thing I've ever worked on, where if I don't work on it for six months or something like that, it doesn't necessarily mean it's dead.

It just means I haven't been working on it in that moment, but, yeah. Yeah. But I digress. This is no, It's, fine. This is, I, just, I, hope with all my heart that it comes back. because for me it, I know that there's a load of other publications out there, and this is in no way, shape or form denigrating what they do.

[00:40:05] Nathan Wrigley: But for me, it genuinely did represent like the, I think the, thing in the strap line of the website is something like the newspaper of record. Or something like that, it really great. so anyway, the podcast has been alive, so go to wp tavern.com and this is what I wanted to feature.

It was, Aaron bin speaking of updates to WordPress. and he was talking to me about minor releases, verse versus major releases. And we do tend to obsess about the major ones, like 6.6 because they're, all these new features. Some of it visual, some of it exciting new buttons to click, new menu items, new stuff.

But don't forget the minor releases, because often it's the minor releases, which basically keep your website ticking, There's a, I don't know, A-A-C-V-E. There's a security vulnerability somewhere out on the internet. The minor release comes along. It all happens in the background automatically.

And this whole podcast episode was, how does that happen? Who makes those decisions? How many people contribute to that? And, the terror of Aaron having the capacity to click the button. Knowing that millions and millions of websites are, going to automatically update and that kind of moment of, ugh.

But there's there's 50 core contributors roughly at the moment. There have been a hundred at various times apparently, but it's a really interesting podcast, genuinely worth a listen. So anybody got anything about that? If not, we'll move on. can I jump in? Can I jump in? Rob? Go ahead Rob. So I'm gonna jump in on this.

[00:41:40] Rob Cairns: Minor releases for me and my business are probably even more important than major releases. 'cause I'm a security guy. So the way I look at these as. A lot of people when a major release likes to like to hold off for a couple days and they, what they wanna see is the stupid people like me, update 300 websites and what I blow up in the world and then they say, oh, if Rob can do it, we'll do it.

Or other people at big, websites that they're managing. What I would suggest is minor releases are even more important because the time from a vulnerability coming out to the time of exploit, we're seeing it's dropping by the day. It used to be months, then it was weeks. We're now into hours and days.

So from my perspective. the minor ones are probably even more important, and the only caveat I say folks, is if you're gonna update WordPress, say please do a backup first. Take the five minutes and do one and save us all the aggravation. Because I've looked at way too many sites recently where somebody didn't do a backup, something conflicted, something blew up, and then, then you're into hours of fun instead of minutes of fun.

but minors should be done sooner than later, in my opinion. I. Yeah. And of course with the miners, you've got the option to just accept what's coming automatically. you wake up in the morning and there's that slew of emails. your website has been updated to 6.5 0.1 or whatever it might be.

[00:43:14] Nathan Wrigley: but yeah, really interesting podcast. and, just fascinating getting the inside track on how those decisions are made and who gets to make them and what the priority is and how quickly those decisions sometimes have to be made and all of that kind of stuff. So I do think though that, for, the, minor releases happen in this small, small group, the small community.

[00:43:39] Alex Standiford: Yeah. but the major releases, and as we talked about before, there's one coming next week, if you've never attended a release party live. Go, you shoot. Yeah. Because it's absolutely magic to see people from competing companies all across the world in all the time zones come together to make the release of a major workplace version a success.

[00:44:05] Taco Verdonshot: Yeah. You'll have a lot of people joining in testing stuff. There's someone who's driving the entire script, which is just, it's open. You can follow exactly which step they're at and what's coming up next and all of that. But it's, it has some, magic to it to see all those people come together and do that major release.

[00:44:27] Nathan Wrigley: Isn't that a nice thing? The, that whole competitors doing things together? Yeah, it's, it, that's a pretty rare thing, and I never quite know what the thing is in WordPress that makes it so intriguing to me. That got me intrigued. But there's definitely some of that. In it, that whole, here we are, we're at a Word camp.

You are a hosting company, you are also a hosting company, but now it's five o'clock. Let's all go have a drink together and just be friends. It's, it's not we're all going back to our hotels and we're gonna, never speak to them. It's just absolutely fascinating. And you're right, those, those launch parties are pretty cool and definitely worth attending.

Absolutely. Anything on that, Alex, before we move on? the only thing I have to say is that usually the minor releases for me are always the, not even just the security things. It's oftentimes positioning the site so that it can be ready for a, major release. So there will be times where, we'll, I've done minor releases just to set up the database so that whenever a major release comes out, it's, as it happens as smooth as possible.

[00:45:39] Alex Standiford: I always think about minor releases as like moving chess pieces, like you're just Positioning yourself so that whenever the next major feature release comes out, it's, it's ready to go and it's smooth. And yeah, especially with plugins that we have now that are starting, they're getting older, they're aging, and there's, a lot of there's a lot of backwards compatibility concerns and there's a lot of migration concerns and updates and things just to make all that stuff work.

yeah, I agree with the, sentiment for sure. There's a lot, all of the work happens. So much work happens in those minors just to make sure the major is in a position to actually be successful in the first place. trigger warning. If you don't like talking about death, then switch off now because, Cameron, Jones says it's on life support.

[00:46:30] Nathan Wrigley: We're talking about the tavern. and it's not dead yet. Question mark says Courtney Robinson. it's, not dead, it's just sleeping. that's a nice way of looking about looking at it. It says friendly web guy. I can't remember who friendly web guy is, but I want to know 'cause I think I know and I've forgotten.

So apologies to you. I do apologize. and Marcus Bonnet. Here we go. Marcus says, A few limbs have been amputated, but it's still barely alive. And, Alan's reiterating that it's resting. It's every week. Every week Wednesday. and, on that, the fact that, it is leaving a gap. It's also obvious because as recent as this morning, there was a discussion in post status whether, one of the sort of, oh, yeah, go get into this on this is interesting.

Yeah, please. Yeah. would take over or, yes. add, to fill that gap. and that's, an a newsletter. Can I mention Oh, yeah, I know Ray. Yeah, it's right. So the, repository is probably the most rats newsletter by now in, in WordPress. And well, Ray was suggesting maybe I should start filling that gap on the Repository's website, by writing more on what's happening in WordPress.

[00:48:08] Taco Verdonshot: yeah, it is definitely, the, current status of WP different is leaving a gap. Yeah. If you've not, subscribed, go and I, honestly off the top of my head, I can't remember the, the URL, but go and sub, go and just Google the repository, email WordPress, something like that and go and subscribe to it.

[00:48:29] Nathan Wrigley: Ray is a, Ray has a background in actual, real journalism. Yeah. And, then brings actual real journalism into a newsletter. And it is just, it's just every week relentlessly worth reading. and it's probably, I don't know, a couple of maybe two, 3000 words. You can do it in 10 minutes from top to bottom.

but it's got all the stuff. And having some repository email, by the way. Yeah. Oh, the repository email. Perfect. What about that? There you go. the repository email. And she, just, she's got all the stories. Yeah. And she talks to all the people and she links to all the tweets and it's, just brilliant.

And so the idea of Ray interjecting into that. Oh, let's see what happens. Maybe she's got some, maybe she's got some legs with that. But, anyway, tavern's not dead. I can say it again. and it's Dave Gray Friendly web. Of course it is. It's Dave Gray from the uk. The king of Bad All good Dad jokes.

And Patricia, says, plus one to what Tacho said about the release party Core channel. Go and check that out again. Get yourself involved. there are. There are other news channels as well. Yeah. That, yes, you are right to point that out, Lawrence. Yeah. there's not just the repositories, whole bunch of newsletters.

I think we were just mentioning that because of the fact that it was just timely that had happened in post status. WP Minute comes to mind. WP Minute. There you go. Yeah. W and Lauren says Rem I think there's an opportunity. Remus. Of course. Yeah. He's got his, Remus. Yeah. What's this called?

I've totally blanked. It is. Ah, I get it. And read it every Friday. I'm gonna let you suffer on this. Ah, thank you. He's gonna appreciate it. It's in my inbox within word. Fascinating. Ready? Does it? Of course it's, yeah, of course. And I'll prove that I read it. 'cause every week you scroll to the bottom, there's two boxes side by side.

One's blue, one's white. There you go. Exactly. It's to the bottom every week. Lauren says, I think there's an opportunity to rethink and reposition the tab. Oh, I agree. So bring it back. But with different, kind of. A different way of doing it. Alright. Okay. Now you're turning. Is Lawrence now suggesting to remove the podcasts?

I have no words. Not Lawrence, the Betrayal, I The Arts of Betrayal. No. Oh yeah, of course. There's DDAs WB Weekly as well. Yeah, we're lucky, aren't we? We are in a, space full of different quirky newsletters and things like that you can really keep up to date. And, many of them use the same stories, 'cause there's only so much going on in WordPress, but depending on how you want dip into that, whether you just want links.

Oh, there's another one called w the, WP Mail, which comes out on a weekly basis. whether you just want links or you want editorial like Ray provides. Then, there's, so much to, yeah. Within WordPress. Yeah. There we go. no common what? No, You're supposed to ride in on a horse like a knight in shining armor and defend the podcast.

Lawrence. There's a, I'm gonna joking. Remus now needs to breathe.

Mku now needs to rerun his newsletter to weekly. Oh, that's great. Oh dear. there we go. Okay. So that was actually supposed to be not about the tavern. It was supposed to be about this podcast with Aaron job and about minor and major releases. But we, we got hijacked a little bit, which was fun. So let's move on to the next bit.

So now we're gonna be talking about Yost. But not Yost, the company yos the person. so you, I'm sure if you're an avid WordPress, you'll probably know that Yost Devo, was one of the person that founded, I guess is the right word. the company Yost, I dunno if there's any connection there now, but ostensibly, there's no connection.

Is that true? we're still good friends. Good mates, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. but every year he releases a CMS market share report, and I just wanna point out that this year was a little bit different because there's quite a few bits and pieces attached as ancillary posts. we'll, actually look at this market share report in a minute 'cause it's so interesting.

But there's also. These two things to look at. and they are linked in the post that we're gonna look at. There's one called the CMS Market Share, commentary. And so in previous years when we were looking at the market share report, yos would, start to make comments and things like that, and he's decided to strip that out and put it into a different article.

But also, he's got an article about how he's gathering the data, and he's called that CMS Market Share Measured. And, what he's tweaked and changed over the years. And I'm guessing that if you're wrangling this kind of data, there's no perfect mechanism for knowing absolutely everything.

But it's a, it is a work in progress. So you've got an update. All of it happened on the 2nd of July. All these three articles went out at the same time. And we can dig into those. But let's start here. a first of all. Totally credible, right? Whether or not Yost is a hundred percent confident in his data.

I, I've been reading this for years, and I just take it on face value and I'm happy to do that. So here we go. Let's look at some of these pie charts. 'cause they're the most exciting bits. most popular CMSs. Now you'd imagine this blue would be WordPress, right? Because we all know it's the big one and it's gone up to I don't know, 58% No, this is unrecognized. The little pink one is in fact, WordPress. So this is all the stuff that the, bots that are crawling it, for Yost or the companies that Yost takes the data from. They don't know who that is, but let's just ignore them for a bit, shall we? Let's just imagine they don't exist.

And Tacho showed me that. If you want to just click on something, if you wanna, I dunno, take WordPress out of the equation. And put WordPress back into the equation. Oh, let's do that a lot. 'cause that looks great. That looks really good. So let's take on recognized outta the equation, and now we see what the picture that we're normally looking at.

so there we go. That's what we're looking at the moment. 35.47%. Now I'm used to saying 43%. That seems to be the figure that is on everybody's lips. And so this is part of yos new metrics. He's gone from one data provider to another, throwing things around a little bit, and he's now got this figure of 35.47%.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna worry too much about that. It's still, honestly, if you bought a pizza into my house and said, Nathan, you have the pink bit, I'd be totally chuffed to bits with that. That looks pretty good to me. but let's take WordPress out of the equation. And now we see some interesting stuff.

So this is Shopify. Look at that. Nearly got a full quarter. If you take unrecognized and WordPress out the equation, there's Wix. You can imagine what's coming next. There's Squarespace, Jula, Drupal Press to shop, and then we get into these slices that really, you can't even hold in your fingers 'cause they're just too floppy.

But I just think, yeah, that's right. I just think that's fabulous. Makes me feel happy. glowing on the inside. Very nice indeed. Anybody wanna comment on that before we scroll on and look at some more fun charts? it's interesting, and that's also what Yost is writing in his commentary article is the history one.

[00:56:11] Taco Verdonshot: Which is there in, in the second or third Green, is a name that I hadn't heard of before. Yeah. This one here. This history one? Yeah. Which you can see it coming and going there. It's, not big, but it's yeah. Who'd heard of that? Not him. Not me. Nope. but it is not so it's halfway, the rest of them basically.

Yeah, in the top 20. so it's a reasonably sized, let's put it that way. if you, if I, just wait, make the graphic go. That's web flow coming and going. That's history coming and going. They're not that far off each other. They're about the same, this unknown. So there's some interesting data.

[00:56:55] Nathan Wrigley: There's bound to be a bunch of CMSs out there. I guess this unrecognized kind of fills the void in most cases. Yeah. What I like to do with this graph is this just go across, And you just get rid of all the others like that. And then that, I like that chart a lot. That's, the CMS used.

By WordPress charts. I'm very happy that, WordPress isn't the entire chart. No, that's right. Where would we get the innovation? Where would we get the news? Where would we get the, the stuff going on. Yeah. But let me put it back. Let's go back to where we were. So I think that's probably the most influential one.

Okay. So here we go. This is an interesting one. This is a graph, showing time versus, percentage or market share on the left hand side. And I, can't quite, I can't quite remember what would've caused this, drop here. Was there some sort of like data broker that went outta business or something?

Yeah. Oh, must be the, that must be, something measuring differently for a while. Yeah. Because if you notice, it's the same for all of them. If you actually just take WordPress outta the equation, look, they've all got this quirky bit. Yep. Around the same point. Anyway, so as you'd imagine, this is the WordPress line, and you can see that really since about 2022, it's more or less a flat line.

It goes up a little bit, it goes down a little bit. but it is more or less a flat line. Again, this was Tao's idea. Just get rid of WordPress just for a bit of foam and look at that. These are the, CMSs really like jockeying for position. All the, every line at some point gets crossed by every other line.

So we have Drupal backing. The growth in some of them is, yeah, insane. Or the decline. So let's make Shopify come and go. okay, Shopify's this one here, this yellow one. And you can see, it's just a precipitous. you have tiny little blips when it goes down, but it's more or less rise, down, rise, down, rise, it's five rises, one down. And and it's now up to, as we saw, it seems to be, second only to WordPress. the difference is still pretty dramatic After that. Wix again, just rise. Not quite as fast as Shopify. I dunno what's going on here, but there seems to have been a drop lately.

Squarespace, same thing. Jumbler seems to be a downward trend for Jumela. and then, there's history. Nothing, And then in, and we're here. Boom. There we're, yeah, we're in the data set. finally. Yeah. And then Cameron commented that history is the Korean equivalent of blogger's Korean thing.

That's fantastic. That's really cool. so that's, I dunno what to say. it doesn't, make me feel anything other than positive. It still seems to be going in the right direction. I guess the other thing to say is every percentage point for WordPress now is just so difficult to get.

Whereas I'm guessing for these other ones there's a little bit, it's a little bit more straightforward. anybody on that one? I just think it's interesting 'cause this is, I think I've been thinking a lot about just the fact that there's a lot of websites that there don't even necessarily, there's a lot of companies that don't even necessarily.

[01:00:38] Alex Standiford: Need a website as much as they used to, where they're not even necessarily using a CMS at all, or they're even using a web, like an actual site, like I've seen so many over the last several years that just redirect to the, to a specific like Google listing or a social listing. And of course they should have something on their site probably and be selling something.

But it's just interesting to me. I wonder how much, social in general contributes to the difficulty of the growth of some of these, some of the measurements here where it's not everybody's taken something necessarily at all. Yeah, Lawrence is, sorry Alex. It completely, oh, it's okay.

[01:01:19] Nathan Wrigley: Your face, this, you have to go right up to the top of the screen. it says Noel talk shared, sorry, showed an interesting graph at Work Camp Asia, I think it was. You're right. where he laid a graph relating to the rate of adoption on the market share one. And I think the, I think there was quite a few bits and pieces that got drawn out of that by Jamie Marsland about, the marketing budgets of certain companies like Wix, who, yeah, when, I talked to Jamie, I think he said there were 400 full-time personnel on Wix, just on the marketing team.

Yeah. And, how do you, how, does an open source project compete with that? pretty well it turns out, but, for, now, for, yeah. Okay. Good point. Can we be sanguine? Can we, yeah, that is a good point. Yeah. Okay. Let's move. was there anything else here? what I'd like, what I'd like to see Nathan, is I'd like them to take yo, to take the WordPress stuff.

[01:02:15] Rob Cairns: And break WooCommerce outta that and show that on a graph in comparison to Shopify. I'd like to see where that sits. 'cause I think it's closer than people think. And we keep talking in the WordPress place about not having a woo competitor. there is one Shopify, whether do you wanna admit that or not?

[01:02:33] Nathan Wrigley: so this is as close as I think we're gonna get for that data. So what we're showing on the screen here is, this is, basically any, kind of website where there's e-commerce functionality and you would've, again, you probably would've been forgiven for thinking that, this blue one might have been something like WooCommerce or something, but it's not, it's it's not e-commerce, which of course makes perfect sense.

Most websites probably don't have e-commerce. So let's just obliterate that one and start looking at it. And now we have this curious pink one, which they're just calling cart functionality. So that's, there's a trace of a cart somewhere. But we don't know what that is. We can't ascribe it to WooCommerce or Shopify, but there's some little PHP script bought off Code Canyon or something like that, who knows?

and then let's take that out again, and then we get what I think is probably the, picture that we are most interested in, which is, WooCommerce, Shopify Square Pace, Wix Press, the shop, and everything else all the way down. And you can see this one here is the Woo Commerce, and again, just going gangbusters.

Wow. Wow. Anything on that? I wonder how much of that cart functionality is just people connecting directly to Stripes API or something like that. Okay. Instead of actually creating subscription models directly through that. Oh. So if we put that one back in, somebody's just dropped a, I don't know, like a Stripe button or stripe cart page on there.

Oh yeah. It could be, couldn't it? Yeah. Yeah. That's the idea. It has something that resembles a web shop but isn't identifiable. Which one? Yeah. Just dealing with Patricia's comment here. back to the previous comment about Wix and marketing and all that. Patricia, that's a big says Wix partners with young influencers.

Yep. Yeah. It's their strategy, right? Is get the young cool kids on there who've got big YouTube followings and, and, just make it happen. Fascinating. I just shared a link in the private chat, Nathan. Thanks. Yeah. it was a talk by a former colleague of mine who is, still very young, even though this talk was, two years ago.

[01:04:44] Taco Verdonshot: and he basically asked a full room at We in Europe, have you heard of Mr. Beast? Oh, gosh, no. No. That's, oh boy. And he said, if you haven't, you're old. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. But, that works in, into, but that's bi-directional, because I have heard of Mr. Beast. And I'm old. That's fair. I do think that you do have kids in the right age too.

Oh yeah. Learn about, yeah. It's crazy. He's he has a following of a major like a huge nation, like a Yeah, Crazy. he recently tweeted, and it's a little sidestep, but he recently tweeted, if we lower the minimum age to run for president in the US I think I could win.

Kidding. No. And he's probably right. He is probably right. Oh yeah. That we live in that generation, don't we? Patricia says, she always talks about TKOs talk. So the one that Tacho just shared, I should say it's called Tomorrow's Generation's Perspectives on WordPress. And it was in, it was at Word Camp Europe in Athens 2023.

[01:05:54] Nathan Wrigley: so you can go and check. That was a short one. 10 minutes, little Lightning talk. So you can go and check that out. And, Patricia, she knows Mr. Beast as well. You're like me. or are you, I'm not implying anything. Maybe you are like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna stop digging that hole right away. Yeah.

That's not safe. okay. So back to here. most popular CMS is over time and again, what can we say about this? WordPress just was, nobody used it for, for the month of September in 2021. It just completely went to nothing. But there you go. Just precipitous rise for WordPress over time in second place, Shopify, Squarespace, Wix, and so on.

But do look, just look at the trend in Wix. There it is. That is a very steady, nice graph. Yeah. If you scroll down a little bit, you have the percentages. And that's where Wix is. Impressive. Look at that. So WooCommerce is, so again, we're talking about e-commerce specifically, WooCommerce, five point, sorry.

market share. it says here 6.98, with a rise of 5.60 off on that 6.98. And, where's it got? Wix, here we go. has a much smaller market share, 1.37, but, the market share, the growth rate is 20, nearly 27%, which is amazing. And then you've got one C brick, bit tricks growth rate of 70%, but starting out at, somewhere in the region of less than half of 1%.

yeah. Interesting. And here we go. This, is fascinating. WordPress page builders is what we're looking at now. and let's take away no page builder, I guess no page builder. What are we, what even is that, Gutenberg these days basically? Or is that people. Just got some kind of theme that they bought.

So who knows? Anything not recognizable as Yeah, one of the other page builders. Yeah, we'll go with that. take, that and you thing that Beaver builder is missing from this list, for example, and I know it will be added in the August data. Great, thank you. but you can see, the king still on that chart is, Elementor, followed by WP Bakery, divvy site origin, GoDaddy co blocks oxygen, and then things like, generate blocks.

So some of the block suites cropping in as page builders, like stackable generate blocks, co blocks. What else have we got? Yeah, that's, oh, and then BrickX is, is there, oh, is bricks on there? Yeah, it's very small at the moment, but I guess I'm thinking that the way that people keep talking about it on social media, I'm imagining that if this chart is done in 12 months time, that might have.

Found its way a little bit higher up the list. 'cause it does seem to be the, the poster child of page builders at the moment. And there it is. Page builder. look at that. Honestly, you could put a ruler on that element. Yeah, no kidding. Isn't that, incredible? It's just, it's relentlessly popular.

interesting comment. I had an intuition that it was less popular now than it was just because it seems to have, I don't know, it's not quite as hot for want of a better word, but No, according to this data, I am totally wrong. WP Baker. I'm just surprised by how smooth it is. It's not like it's, not like a exponential growth.

[01:09:16] Alex Standiford: It's just literally just a perfectly linear Yep. I could tell you what their growth is gonna be like in three years. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, According to this, that will be easy to predict. Yeah. So the yellow line is WP Bakery, followed by Divvy. And I think it's fair to say that in this chart, at least, WP Bakery seems to be declining.

[01:09:35] Nathan Wrigley: Divvy is flat lining, and then you've got all the other ones, which are so close to the bottom you can't see. But let's take out Elementor, let's take about WP Bakery. Let's take out divvy, see what that looks like. So site origin out. Ah, actually, mostly, in most cases, it's a rise, isn't it?

These little block suites, like generate blocks. Here we go. Let's have a look. Elementor up 23.3%. WP Bakery down seven. And that same given their size. Yeah. that's, the bizarre thing. They're already leading and they're still growing by, I. Deep, deep double digits. Yeah, Quite right.

Yeah. And then you get some curious big numbers like generate blocks. Obviously, it's a tiny fraction of the Elementor install base, but a really, there must, something must be happening over there. It, there's something in the water. People are talking about generate blocks, it would seem, 'cause that's a giant, nearly 60%, 57.14%.

And then, and then, I'm not saying that anybody's gonna have any bias here or anything, but then we're on to, most popular WordPress, Yost pla SEO plugin. and here we go. Yeah, we're not, we, haven't even got an unidentified here. It's just, look, good grief Tacho. What the heck?

[01:10:57] Taco Verdonshot: I know the plugin that's currently leading this. Do You've heard of that? Yeah. Oh yeah. that's pretty gosh, that does that graph must make you feel pretty good. but in line with what, Aaron Bin said is clicking that button and feeling responsible for updating so many sites, that's definitely true for us as well.

[01:11:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah. let's take Yost out and just see what that actually looks like. So if we taste that, take that out, the, but obviously, put it back in. You can see that Yost is, what are we looking at? Sick. I can't even guess what that would be. Something along the lines of 80% of this chart, something like that.

Take it out. And then you've got rank math, followed by all in one SEO, followed by the SEO framework and then slim. There, there is, something to notice and that is that the data for all in one is incorrect. Oh, is it? Go on. Yes. because it is, there was a name change in all in one SEO back from, all in one SEO pack to all in one SEO.

[01:12:10] Alex Standiford: Yeah. So it's currently tracking the old name. okay. Which will be updated in, in the tracker. so we should see more reliable data in one of the upcoming versions of this. Okay. Oh, that's good to know. Thank you. Only one is much bigger than it seems to be here in that one. All right. That's good to know.

[01:12:33] Nathan Wrigley: And then we see the, The chart, which is just the SEO plugins. Over time, we could probably spend hours dissecting all this data and I love it. It's fascinating. But we are at now nearly coming up to like quarter past three, so we've got 20 minutes to go roughly. So we'll, move on. Anyway, that is called CMS market share.

I will link to it in the show notes for tomorrow, but go to Yost. Which is JOOS t.blog, and you can find all of the three articles. It was the 2nd of July all of this data was released. And thank you to Yost for, taking the time and the trouble for collating all of that wonderful stuff for us.

Okay, very quickly then, there's not a lot to say here other than Word Camp Asia is obviously coming around. it is gonna be held in 2025. 2024 has obviously passed, and they are now on the lookout for speakers, for Lightning talks. Long talks are 40 minutes, joint talks. Also a 40 minutes, but that's with, a shared speaker.

So two speakers, panel discussions like fireside chats, 60 minutes, q and As. And then finally workshops where you, rather than talk to the audience, you show them things and work with them and they're 90 minutes to half a day. Gosh, half a day. Wow. You have to be so well prepared for that. asia dot word, wordcamp.org, if you're interested in speaking.

Do you know if they're looking for, speakers from Asia or, that's interesting. Are they targeting, the rest of the world as well? Yeah, it, I don't, I didn't see, do you know what, I read this, like I said, it was on Saturday and I didn't see that. It's your chance to share. No, You passionate. I, so here we go.

What we're looking for, are you passionate, insights to share, looking for speakers both full? No, they don't make that claim here. No. So there doesn't seem to be any caveat on that. so then everyone should just apply. Yeah, everybody go apply. okay, great. Thank you. I've actually forgotten the location.

Where is it? I've forgotten. In Manila, Philippines. Manila, yeah's, yeah. Nice. Manila, the Philippines. And this is a similar sort of thing, I guess Word Camp Europe has just closed its doors not that long ago, a few weeks ago and already. WordCamp Europe has got all of the videos from all of the presentations.

I remember the day when, WordCamps had finish and you'd wait I don't know, six months. Yeah. Six. Yeah. Really six months. but Tacho has an opinion why it's so rapid. and, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid that the team, doing this for WebPress TV is similar size as in previous years, but we do see a lot less events happening, so there might be less data to process.

[01:15:27] Taco Verdonshot: Yep. Which with the same number of people means it goes faster. Yeah. But I hope I'm wrong. no. I think you might be right. And segue, I've never done that before and I won't be doing it again. I apologize for my, slight singing of the word segue there. Nobody wants to hear that. we'll come to this article in a moment 'cause I've just had a revelation, reactivating inactive meetup groups.

[01:15:51] Nathan Wrigley: We'll come to that in a moment, but it's just occurred to me with this tacho Also, I wonder if the software's got better. I wonder if the, software that you can drop things like that into and it'll just do the stuff and it'll do the transcription and you don't have to wait for a human to listen to it and type it all out.

You can basically get AI to do it and then, tweak it and make sure it's a hundred percent correct. I wonder if that plays into it a bit as well. I've sat at a WordPress TV table at a contributor day once a couple of years ago. and I do know that there's an awful lot of work going into reviewing all those videos and there's a lot of manual work.

[01:16:31] Taco Verdonshot: I don't know if they've. been able to partially automate things, but I do know that team is not getting, the attention they deserve for all the work they put in. Yeah. It's, and honestly, trust me, I do a lot of video editing work. It, is, it, can be sometimes reasonably mind numbing. It's laborious for sure.

[01:16:54] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. It's fairly laborious. Yeah. does any, okay, so Lawrence is, asking the same question. Does anybody know what the selection criteria is? So we're back to Word Camp Asia. no, but he says he's also gonna write up about it. 'cause he has the stats for 24 and he says 27% of the Word Camp Asia speaker.

So I'm guessing this is last year in Taiwan, or this year rather in Taiwan. 27% were not from Asia. And, and then he says, and then he, says the opposite 27% of Word Camp Asia speakers were from Asia. So I don't quite, yeah, I wondered if there was type on there. He corrected himself. Yeah. Oh, he's correcting himself, right?

[01:17:34] Taco Verdonshot: Thank you. Yeah. Good, good. Okay, so we're saying 27%. Oh, that's interesting. That's much lower than I would've anticip. So yeah, what I, heard before is that, whereas worth in Europe, for example, is trying to showcase the best. Europe has to bring Asia, was aiming to bring the talks from the rest of the world so that the people, from Asia, who typically have a harder time traveling to Europe or to the US can also get access to the same content.

Okay. So I know that was true for 2024. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. And Lawrence just saying the second one? Yeah. Okay. So 27% were from Asia. That's interesting. And, Cameron says he's still waiting for his, talk for Word Camp Sunshine Coast. I should have said before I laughed, from 2016. Cameron, it's only eight years.

[01:18:31] Nathan Wrigley: and you can help the team out. Yeah, that's right. It's yourself, it's all open, all the make teams, you can just join them and get the work done. Yeah. I, yeah. So there we go. So Cameron, no, That was, yeah, tacho said it, not me. All right. Take, it out with Tacho. but anyway, segue. Oh no, I did it again.

here we are reactivating inactive meetup groups. So Devin, MAs tree. I so apologize to everybody whose name I butcher on this show. is, touching on this exact point that Tacho just raised about, has the community gone away so it's easier to edit stuff 'cause there's less stuff to edit?

our upcoming project aims at revitalizing inact inactive meetup groups within our community with over 762 WordPress meetup groups spanning 808 countries. Gosh, these numbers and hosting nearly 537,000 members count them. Actually don't. We'll be here all day. We recognize the importance of. Active engagement across our global network starting the 1st of July.

So just a week ago, they're gonna embark on a focus one month initiative to breathe new life into our meetup groups project. comes in response to data, recent data revealing that nearly half of our groups are currently inactive. So anyway, the idea of this is to just bring them back to life. If you're interested, you can see the name of the article there, reactivating inactive meetup groups.

If you're in a part of the world that is lacking, you've now got a focus. There are, things afoot if you want to join in that community, and bring it back to life. So yeah, get involved. It's all on the make wordpress.org and it'll be in the show notes. Anything on that? Or should we quickly move on?

'cause time really is pressing now. Yeah. So the tap that you're currently hovering, this is not the first time that we're trying to reactivate meetup groups. Yeah. Okay. So I, hope that it will be more successful now because the last time was just after Covid when we saw that people were still hesitant to, come together.

[01:20:38] Taco Verdonshot: And I hope that's changed by now. but it's not the first time that we've tried to react reactivate those meetup groups. So if you're in a location that doesn't have an active meetup. Please stand up and get some people together and start organizing again. Oh, nice. Call to action there. yeah, it's not the first time we can see an article here.

[01:21:00] Nathan Wrigley: You probably maybe can't see it on the screen, but it's, September 29th, in the year 2022. like a full two years ago nearly the idea mooted at a different time. Okay, let's move on. And I just want to quickly mention, BGE was on the show, was it last week, couple of weeks ago? Very recently.

Anyway, BGE Alza and she has written a post just the other day, called Addressing Overlapping Initiatives, improving Collaboration across Teams. This I will read, an in-person meeting during Word Camp Europe was convened to address the overlapping in initiatives among various word comp contributor groups and explore ways to enhance collaboration and streamline efforts.

The primary goal was to avoid duplication of work and ensure that all teams were aligned and work efficiently to towards shared objectives. So I'm presuming born out of frustration of. People just basically duplicating work within teams that didn't need to be. So if you are in a team and you feel that you have duplicated work that somebody else already did, there is now a place to go to help that initiative.

And bigger it has the, post and there it is addressing overlapping initiatives, improving collaboration across teams. Anything on that We're really short of time. Now. When she says that, does she mean, like people doing different, trying different things or something like, I'm a little worried about the wording of it.

[01:22:23] Alex Standiford: 'cause when I hear it without the context, it sounds to me like she would rather, they would rather have. Everybody working on a, like specific different APIs or specific different solutions instead of competing with each other for different ways to solve that. I'll just raise this bit. So again, I'm quoting from the article, the attendees recognized significant, so the attendees are listed here.

[01:22:44] Nathan Wrigley: There was a small cohort of people who, of which, Patricia, who's in the comments. And Courtney, we've got 'em all. Thank Courtney. That's nice. they said the following, and I can't scroll, my wheel has decided to jam up. There we go. the attendees. So those people, recognize significant overlaps in their projects, especially concerning contributor onboarding and sustainability.

Excuse me. Discussion highlighted the need for better coordination communication among teams. There was consensus on the value of a regular cross team check-ins and hangouts to share current projects and focus. Several challenges were identified, including the perception of the sustainability team.

Basically everybody just thinks the environment, whereas it's not just the environment, it's, the. Events being sustainable and all sorts of other things. so I think it's a bit more that, I think it's a bit more that the work within those teams is just being duplicated, somewhat needlessly.

so yeah. Sorry, I feel like I'm rushing everybody now. I do apologize. We have an event and, it's called Stellar Spark and the schedule is up. And look at these. Have you ever seen little icons like this, which are interesting, right? Like the palette that they've gone for. Normally it's like bright, but whereas they've gone for it's dark and I, my eye was drawn to it immediately and the event is gonna be taking place really soon, 11 days.

So it's, a free online event, 19th of July, 2024. You can obviously register with this button. And we scroll down. We've got Joseph Ser. We've got Tammy, she's in the comments. we've got Nestor. We've got Alex and Carolyn. I think these are both, both Sters. Yep. Zeva. and then it, we keep scrolling.

Keep scrolling. Let's chat with sunglasses on. He's, Hey, that's me. That's you. Check it out. and you are gonna be talking about, creating an affiliate program to affiliate programs and partnerships. That's basically all I talk about right now. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. No, that's good. Anyway, there it is.

Spark. Stella Spark. you can go and check out the schedule links in the show notes. One other event quickly online. this is the eighth. Do they overlap the day before? Oh, gosh, yeah. Goodness for that. Two days in a row. Two days in a row. So this one is the day before, and this is human made joining forces with WP Campus and a virtual event actually sponsored by you.

Look at that. discover Enterprise WordPress on a university budget and, WP Campus specialize in higher ed, WordPress installations and things like that. So if that's your bag, then you've got something to attend. Anything on either of those two events before I move on? Definitely go check out my colleagues talks.

Nice, nice. You are, you're all over the place. Look, you're sponsoring this one and you've got two, two people in the other one. Yeah. Carolyn speaking here as well. Ah, yeah. I didn't get down to that, did I? Yeah. Okay. So you're really all over it. that's even better. Even better. And then a couple of bits before we finish off, and I will try to give you a bit of time, Alex, to, explain about siren.

I apologize. It never got added. this came via Tacho. What's this? Yep. it's something that I'm quite proud of. there is, an event called the Global Search Awards. it's happening, annually. And this year we decided to enter that, competition, with, Yos, ASIO in the category BAS global search software tool.

[01:26:22] Taco Verdonshot: And I'm super happy to say that we've been shortlisted, so basically nominated for a win, in that category. So that is, a. Real big acknowledgement of the things that we've been doing in the past 12 months because that's what they're looking at. so we submitted just as EO with the focus on the AI generated descriptions and titles, and we made it to, to the final few for this category.

So I'm super happy about it. Nice. When do you find out if you are bagged an award? So on September 19th. Okay. So during World Camp us. Okay. Alright. Yeah, you might have something to that's, yeah. Have some pops going off in the party club. Yeah, no kidding. Going off in the, yeah, in the sponsor booth.

[01:27:15] Nathan Wrigley: That is nice. that's on LinkedIn, so I will try to link to that. I dunno how successful I'll be in my newsletter, which goes out with this. But, thank you for that. And I just wanted to point this out. I doubt anybody's gonna want to use it, but I just thought it was interesting. It's called Lady Bird.

it's a new, not new. Browser, I'd never heard of it before, but it's, open browser developed from the ground up. They say from scratch, using open source. but it's open source and it's based upon web standards, which I thought was interesting. I doubt that it's particularly useful, it's not gonna rival the likes of, Firefox or Chrome or anything like that quite yet, but I, no, but a couple remixes like that.

[01:27:56] Alex Standiford: Yeah. even if they don't become the big thing, some innovations they come up with can influence the web entirely. we saw that with Firefox years ago. Yeah. And have you seen this one called, that's a good thing. Have you seen this one called Arc a RC? Yeah, they might do a lot of cool stuff. Oh, everybody seems to be going on about Arc and using Arc when I watch, like Screencasts and things like that.

[01:28:15] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. and then, this is just apropos of nothing really. This is just, Google. so it's a search engine thing, not particularly about WordPress, but Google is, saying that its search results are going to try and get people who put content. Into Google, if they want it, I'll just read it.

It'll be a lot easier. Google sat on Monday. It would simplify the way advertisers disclose election ads that use digitally altered content to depict real or realistic looking people or events in its latest battle to tackle disinformation. The update to disclose to the disclosure requires under the political content policy requires marketers to select a checkbox in the altered or synthetic content select section of their campaign setting.

So if you're submitting ads to Google, obviously around the, the politics season, I think everybody's a bit mindful that it's easy these days to make, I don't know, make any politician say or do anything. sometimes for nefarious reasons, Google is going to request that you tick a box, which of course.

all these people are just gonna tick that box, aren't they? And just be really honest about it. Yeah, That was the first thing I thought was, yeah, you can count on them to check that. Yeah. Okay. That's, the content that I've got. I'm just gonna give Alex a couple of minutes. I know that at the end you said, have you got a moment to, to talk about, so affiliates, is there anything you want to say?

I can put the website on the screen if you like. Oh, yeah, sure. I'm just, I'm just, I've been working on Siren, but the big, like affiliates, which is an affiliate plugin for, WordPress that lets you manage multiple programs at one time, and it's got a couple of different really interesting, ways that it allows me to approach not just affiliate programs, but partnerships in general.

[01:30:00] Alex Standiford: So the big thing that I really wanted to talk about here was I actually just launched a podcast that I started doing because I realized, siren, the software, it's, for me, it's more than just an affiliate program. It's a plugin. It's like an entire. Way of thinking on running a business, an entire way of approaching business in general, and work whenever you're working with other people.

And I wanted to explore the different ways those kind of things can be done, and, different ways that we aren't, that our community especially hasn't really been utilizing as well as they should be for all of the collaborative efforts that we do in our space. there's just so many opportunities where we could work together, better.

So I built this software to help with a lot of those things, but I also started doing a lot of educational resources and, a podcast called Partnership. oh, Kyle Leva. Thank you. Yeah, I was really excited. and, yeah, so that's been, I've been talking a lot about, not just affiliate programs or what makes a good one a good affiliate program or anything like that, but like how to sell expensive things, for example, which is that talk, I'm one at Stellar, right?

so how to sell expensive things using Siren. How. WordPress agencies, for example, can create, and actually sell their services with partnership programs. How, you can create a multi-course platform using WordPress, lifter or LearnDash or whatever, plus siren to be able to like, basically create a Udemy clone with WordPress or, so there's just all kinds of different ways that it's approaching.

Partnership programs and incentivizing pay for performance type things. And I realized I could do a whole podcast just talking Oh boy. A ways to approach that. So we are, yeah, it's called partnership. So Yeah. It's called Partnership. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. I was, I was so excited. I, I, went to, I went and scooped up partnership fm and I was like, yeah, it was there.

This is mine now. Yeah. Yeah. There was that. That shouldn't have been allowed. That should have been taken. I know. I felt, I know. I was so excited. You got anything you, yeah. Exactly. Couldn't believe it. You, did well there. so there we go. siren affiliates.com. You can go and check it out.

[01:32:15] Nathan Wrigley: That is Alex's current project that he's working on and it's a hot take on affiliate programs. It does a whole load more than you'd imagine. So go and, yes, check it out. Siren affiliates.com. Let's just round off with a couple of comments. Courtney Robertson, I think we're back onto the story about the, Overlapping, initiatives, I commented on Ju Julia's post. I think it had helped to have several clearly defined reasons why, to seek new attendees contribution market. Yeah, I think this was on the, that was on the atte, the events, bringing events back. Yeah. Re yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that.

[01:32:51] Taco Verdonshot: Revitalizing. Yeah. That'll, Yeah, that's the right word. And then she goes on, Alex, the proposal is to move. Was there a comment by Alex somewhere? it was just me asking for clarification. Yeah. Oh, okay. You were just asking out loud the, oh, the proposal is to move the DEIB working group mentorship officially into the sustainability team.

[01:33:10] Nathan Wrigley: Some conversations we had about them naming the team, I commented about this. And then second to last, penultimate comment. it's mostly about overlapping between DEIB, IB group sustainability, the fight for the future, and contributor onboarding. Okay. So it's got a much more Gotcha. Much more narrow focused than we thought.

And then finally, Mr. Lacey. Yay. The trade, the Trader Show. I'm not saying it, I'm saying it. The traitor. He's back. He's back. I, he's, Paul Lacey's fine. He's made a, return visit, but he's, left only one minute. S great. Thank you Paul. And, especially in this episode, it's funny because Marcus is on a plane following our, entire show.

[01:33:52] Taco Verdonshot: And he's on a bus. He's on a bus. No excuses. That's hysterical. Yeah. Paul, when you finally get to it right at the beginning of the show, Marcus Burnett is, he is on a plane. He's on a plane watching it. And, and your comment was, hello everyone. Sorry me. I'm late. I missed the bus. That's great. I love Paul Lacey.

[01:34:10] Nathan Wrigley: He's, he's absolutely fabulous. We say it in jest, everybody knows I'm not serious about it. Okay. That's it. That's all I've got for you this week. all it remains for me to do is to say, I. Segue again? No, is to please go. Although it's funny I'm making you a transition. Yeah, it's funny though because, this is episode 3 0 1.

[01:34:33] Taco Verdonshot: Yep. Which is the redirect. Oh. Oh, there's a joke in there somewhere. Yeah. Alright. Okay. There's gotta be something about three hours. He's writing it down right now. yeah. I'm gonna write it down. They've gotta have the show tile. That's brilliant. love you two. Great show. Thank you. Says thanks. Paul says Paul Lacey.

[01:34:51] Nathan Wrigley: And Courtney's saying she, she's tuning in by train. There you go. Now who is, yeah. Yeah. Oh, who is? Oh, okay. I got it. Got it. That's it. So that's it. As no more segues, no more silliness. I just want to thank Tacho for joining us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I want to thank Rob Cairns for joining us.

Thank you very much. And I want to thank Where's he gone? Oh dang it. I did it wrong. So you'll never, ever, get that right term. It depends on the software. 'cause some of them mirror and some of them don't it. No, It's like when you put the USB, the old USB thing in you get it wrong every single time and then you turn it over and then you realize you actually got it right first time and you have to go back.

So it always takes three goes, isn't it? But that's all we got. Thank you for joining us. It makes the whole thing better when you comment and many of you did. And I really appreciate that. And we do have to do one more thing. we do. We've got one more thing to do and that is to do the hand wave.

Every week, Alex, we do the hand wave and we, do the hand wave there. We know we just keep 'em there for a few. That's all I got. That's it. That's all I need. So we'll be back next week for episode number 302. Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate your time and we'll see you soon. Take it easy.

Bye-Bye.