This Week in WordPress #236

[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for this week in WordPress, episode number 236. It was recorded on Monday the ninth of Jan, 2023. It's entitled, so Like It's So Go. My name's Nathan Wrigley and I will be joined today by my guests. They are in no particular order. Bob Dunn. I am also joined by Bud Kraus as well as Arindo Duque.

It's a WordPress podcast, so we spend about half. Of the podcast talking about WordPress, and here are the stories. First of all, we're talking about the things that have changed from 5.9 up until 6.2, and there's an awful lot. We also dwell on the subject of Gutenberg 14.9, some recent changes, which are really nice, especially in terms of global styles.

We talk about the Page Builder Summit, which was an event or is an event that I'm going to be putting on in February and whether or not you would like to sponsor us, and we also talk about something that I'm doing next week with Pete Jane Ne. It's a ux UI show and you are free to submit your sites for her expert opinions.

We also talk about a new project, which helps you design. Contact forms for contact form seven in the Gutenberg ui, and then we go down a real rabbit hole talking about last pass, and I really get all my anxiety out into the open because everything of mine is there and there's a few other bits and pieces that we touch on as well. It's all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of managed WordPress hosting that includes free domain SSL and 24 7 support. Bundle that with The Hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one, invoice clients and get 30% off new purchases. Find out more at go.me/WPBuilds.

Hello, episode number 236 of the this weekend WordPress show. Just a bit of advice if you are gonna eat a banana. Actually eat the banana, don't eat the skin, which is what I just did and it tastes awful, is all I'm gonna say.

And on that bombshell, we're gonna we're gonna introduce our guests today. We're joined like we are so many times by the fabulous. Bob, how you doing Bob?

[00:02:40] Bob Dunn: Hey, I'm doing good. I am still thinking about that banana. ? Yeah. There's

[00:02:45] Nathan Wrigley: no way that's getting out in your head. You should. Yeah. Yeah. That's gonna be with you.

I'm gonna do the proper introduction. Bob is the connector over at Do The Woo, which is a fabulous podcast, by the way. A community for Woo Commerce builders and is also work. And he is also working. I forgot about this. And he is also working with some Brit podcaster on a new project this year called WP Office Hours.

I have no idea what that is. If you see him wandering around aimlessly at word Sia, please guide him to the lost and found section. It's a pleasure. How was the New Year, Bob?

[00:03:18] Bob Dunn: It was very good. Nice and quiet and yeah, enjoyed it. Relax. I guess I'm all ready for the new year. Whatever it

[00:03:26] Nathan Wrigley: holds. Yeah.

Okay, let's see how it goes. 2023. We're also joined by Bo First time on the podcast. Bob Kraus. Kraus. Bo Bod. Sorry, I just called you Kraus. I'm sorry about that. It's, is your surname, in fact pronounced Krause or have I butchered that? It is

[00:03:43] Bud Kraus: with and note it's only one s and no e. Okay.

[00:03:48] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, got it.

Bay always k r a u s. Yeah. I'll do the proper introduction before we, Nat Bud is a WordPress instructor having taught thousands of online courses sorry, and in class from all over the world. He currently has recorded videos featuring the Gutenberg block editor as well as doing live hands-on classes, but doesn't help build new sites.

He rather focuses on bringing new life to broken down WordPress sites that are in need of remediation. He's been very active in the WordPress community, in and around the NYC area and beyond. As he often says, WordPress software is pretty good, but the community is so much better. Bravo. I applaud that sentiment.

That's great. And did you have an i c.

[00:04:33] Bud Kraus: I did, but I was really busy cuz I, all of a sudden I've just gotten so much different kinds of work and all that, that I was working through the holidays, but oh, when you enjoy your work, does it really work? Yeah. And it's not drudgery, let's

[00:04:51] Nathan Wrigley: say that.

Yes. Bob and I were chatting and had the exact opposite discussion a minute ago where we planned to do absolutely loads during the holidays and sat on a chair. Yeah. Anyway, very nice to have you with us. I hope you come back and I hope you thank you for having me. Yeah, you're very welcome. And last, but by no means, Lisa, we have Arin Duque.

How are you doing Arundo? I'm good. Yeah, Arin Ado is the the founder and main developer at WP tmo. If you are into w WordPress as a service, then go and check that out. WP tmo.com. It's a plugin that transforms WordPress multisite into the website as a service platform. When not in front of a computer drinking copious amounts of coffee, he can be found pretending to know how to play different instruments.

Go on. Which instruments do you pretend to play?

[00:05:45] Arindo Duque: We have this beautiful electronic drums set here right behind me. Yes. Which I not play in the moment cuz we recently discovered that my upstairs neighbor like his main bedroom, is right above. Oh, and he can listen to everything that I do. Oh, in the

[00:06:05] Nathan Wrigley: office.

So if it's an electronic one, can you not like, put headphones in and it just makes a sort of tapping sound, but I guess that's not quite as much

[00:06:12] Arindo Duque: problem, right? Yeah. But no. It is supposed to be as silent as you can get, but you are still hitting things with a piece of wood. So there's.

There's always this, a amount of sound that you can't get rid of. And it looks like that the walls here are pretty thin.

[00:06:32] Nathan Wrigley: You No, it's, it is it is really interesting to me when, because I interview quite a lot of people and very often we're on a camera, and I've said this before, it's always amazing to me the overlap between musical instruments and WordPress.

And it may be that, I don't know, Bob, maybe in your past there was music and maybe Bob there was in your past. Certainly there was

[00:06:50] Bud Kraus: in mine. Oh, I plead guilty. I plead guilty to the idea of tr of how did Ado say this? , trying to play or pretending to play. Pretending to know, pretend my keyboard, I pretend to play guitar.

And this pretension has been going on for years. . Yeah. That's

[00:07:10] Nathan Wrigley: all I. All I can say is that I very often see guitars and stuff lying around in the background. So you're not alone. We're here to talk about WordPress, but before we do that, a few bits of housekeeping. First of all, let's just, we've got one comment coming in.

It's from Peter who usually gives us a weather report at the beginning of the show. Oh. And, yep. Happy New Year from in the US New England, where it's currently 32 degrees zero on the mostly cloudy sky. I just love that he tos this every week's a little bit of weather forecasting. That's brilliant.

It's about the same here, actually, to be honest. There's cloudy skies and it's about zero degrees and an Easter, I think is how you pronounce that name. She's saying hello. Hello. Indeed. If anybody wants to share the show, I'd be most appreciative. The quickest way to do that is just to go to this url, WP Builds.com/live.

If you go there, you'll need to be logged into Google cuz it's YouTube comments. Alternatively, if you're in our Facebook group, you can go to the Facebook group and just search around until you find the live video. But you'll need to click a link in the, the thread at the top. The link is chat.restream.io/fb.

Otherwise you will be anonymous, which is fine if you want to be anonymous. That's fine. But some people prefer to actually show us their name and so on. So if you're fancy given us a comment, please do that. Let's get stuck into the show though. See what we've got in store for us this week, second week of January.

First thing to say is this is our website, WP Builds.com. If you fancy, keep in touch with what we do. Go and put your email address in there and click the subscribe button. We don't hammer. It's like basically when we produce content. So twice a week we'll send you an email and that's really about it.

So there's that. The other thing to say is we'll move on to the articles and the first thing is WP Tavern. We always end up at WP Tavern each week pretty much. Sarah Gooding wrote a piece on the 5th of January entitled Gutenberg 14.9 s. New Magic Push Block Changes to Global Styles. To be honest with you, there are several things in this article about other things that are, that have happened in Gutenberg 14.9, but the only one that I want to concentrate on is this, what I consider to be really cool new feature.

From now on, if you install the Gutenberg plugin in very soon, you'll have it in the WordPress Vanilla install. You'll be able to push a global. Styles button. The button is actually labeled push changes to global styles. And in any block that matches that. So let's say for example, I don't know, it's a headings block or it's a H one in a headings block or whatever, it will push it and make it global.

So you won't find yourself going around the website and discovering that titles over here look different to titles over there. It'll just push it out globally, it sounds like a little thing. But if you've got a website which is maintained by, I don't know, five or six different content editors, they might have their own variation on what a heading ought to look like, and you end up with this sort of patchy, patchy approach to your branding.

So hopefully this will solve that. You can see on the screen if you're watching this live. Basically, here it is. It's just this little button at the bottom, little blue button and it does that. So I just think that's dead. Cool. Another little incremental change. So if anybody's got anything to say about that, now is the moment to say it.

[00:10:43] Bud Kraus: that's not incremental. I think that's a big change. And what I was wondering as you're going through this, is how will third party block developers tie their work into this new feature? Because they're gonna need to do that. .

[00:10:57] Nathan Wrigley: So do so for example I dunno if anybody from, for example, cadence Kathy's aunts often in here, right?

I don't, I dunno how the, how that's approached in something like Cadence, for example. I'm imagining that there is a global setting somewhere in there where you can take care of this all by yourself. This is of course just the sort of default editor with no customization, right? It's just what drops into a WordPress site.

So it's, yeah, you're right. It's a kind of neat little feature. But I'm guessing that third parties have probably got their own variation on this already.

[00:11:31] Bob Dunn: Yeah, I could have used this. We'll see, couple days ago. Yeah, I, it was saved me about five hours of work, so

[00:11:38] Nathan Wrigley: Oh really? You just had to go back through and like what?

[00:11:41] Bob Dunn: Yeah, it's perfect for somebody that's psychotic like me. If I do get into actually changing stuff on my site, because, it's oh, I get this moment of, oh, there's, 200 other posts or 200, 600 other places this is, and I have to decide whether I'm gonna do it or not. Yeah, it's cool.

I, I love global stuff. Yeah,

[00:12:04] Arindo Duque: yeah. For not it, yeah, it, for me it's like a big quality of life improvement. I also had a couple of places where I could have used a feature like that the past couple of weeks because like you come up with a variation of a particular block in a.

Specific template and it looks better, and then you have to go to all the different templates and update and it takes a lot of time. Yeah, it's one of those like little small tweaks that can make you like a hundred times more productive. So I think it's a great improvement.

[00:12:45] Nathan Wrigley: I I imagine that in an ideal world, if you are in any way connected with a website, you'll have written all this stuff down and H one is this, H two is this, and it will always be thus, but when it was the theme taken care of all of this, that was fine.

But now blocks are just, Taking control of almost everything, and anybody who gets into a website can do anything with any block. Then it wrestles that control back to each individual person and you Yeah, it will go wrong. So if as roles and permissions come in and you can lock certain things down, all of this will be great.

Your H one will always look at this and the content editors won't be able to fiddle with this. So yeah, quality of life improvement, I'm sure that'll save us. The two of you, it would've saved you a ton of time. Yeah. There we go. All right, so that was,

[00:13:32] Arindo Duque: go on. I have one little other small comment on this post.

Like what, as you mentioned, there's a bunch of different announcements on that single post, even though the global push, the global styles is the main one highlighted in there. But as a developer, we develop plugins. So we are just starting to get. To know how block things work. A little bit more on the technical level now, but one change that I really appreciate is that starting at this version, you'd be able to limit the specific block patterns to specific right kinds of templates.

And for me, like once you get started, like install, installing different plugins that add a bunch of different block patterns, it starts to get a little bit confusing, messy, there's a lot of blocks in there patterns. So the option to limit specific patterns that are only relevant to specific templates, to those templates.

I also think that it's a great addition, makes things like easier to navigate for the end user.

[00:14:49] Nathan Wrigley: Are you making lots of use Arin with WP alt mode? Are you gonna be starting to make a lot of use of these kind of things? So your plugin, you can, I don't know, you can make it so that the, a website is you pick a template and that's your new website.

You click a button and , your new version of your website has got this particular layout and theme and so on. Are you gonna be starting to use these things the site editing capabilities and things like the REST API and theme dot j s om to enable this? Because it's just it's free and it's the way it's gonna be done in the future.

Yeah.

[00:15:27] Arindo Duque: We, we are , so one of the main challenges that we face right now is that we deal with multi-site and depending on the number of sites that you add, it can start to. Like performance starts to, to be an issue. And what we've seen is that most of the performance complaints that we get, they happen on the WP admin side of things, huh?

Because on the front end you can cash things pretty aggressively. So the complaints that we get about multi-site performance, they're mostly concentrated on the WP admin side of things. So the way that we're planning to solve this is to basically allow our customers to create custom admin panels on the front end.

That way we can make use of all the benefits of like aggressive catch caching and things like that. Prevent the loading of all the plugins that, that might be installed, and doing that with blocks and most more specifically block patterns. In a way that we can provide. Certain screens pretty much in a pre prebuilt Yep.

As a starting point is it's it was something that we were waiting to get to this point to be able to really make use of

[00:16:57] Nathan Wrigley: so in the future, rather than, let me under see if I understood this correct. In the future in WP tmo, rather than log into WordPress and then be in the traditional admin area that we all know about.

You'll be basically on a page fiddling with the settings for WP tmo. , have I got that right. It'll be a page made up of blocks with all the settings in so you can cash it and, okay. That's, yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, that's cool. , that's, yeah, I haven't really come across anybody doing that yet, so that's really interesting.

We, we, we should talk, there's a podcast in there, . probably. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you've got a different take on that. That's really interesting. Yeah. For me, the bit was all about the global styles, which in page builder land, we've been doing this for ages and now it's really nice to see this inside of a block.

[00:17:50] Bud Kraus: I've got a question about the patterns that you were talking about, arundo, which is the way I see it, or let me see if I understand what you're talking about, is that when I'm building a page, the PA or any kind of post type the patterns would only be for those particular templates or those particular post types.

Is that right? It would be just instead of just general patterns, it would be specific patterns that, say a developer created certain patterns. It would only be targeted for right now, there's the ability to do that through a modal. Is that how it would be done through a modal or just any inserter?

[00:18:35] Arindo Duque: I think it's something inserter, but I'm not sure how it works for post types.

The posts specifically about like specifically templates. So like a 4 0 4 templates. Search results, things like that. Which makes sense cuz you don't want. A 4 0 4 right block pattern with an error message to be showing up on every block editor page that you have and every single piece of content on your website.

So it contextualizes the different patterns in a way that I think it's more intuitive to the end user. . So I think it's a great addition. Yeah.

[00:19:20] Nathan Wrigley: But that's

[00:19:20] Bob Dunn: for the insert. I think

Okay.

[00:19:26] Nathan Wrigley: All right. I've now eaten some banana, so I'm gonna struggle through this.

Okay. I'm to the next thing.

[00:19:33] Bob Dunn: I'm just kidding. .

[00:19:34] Nathan Wrigley: Do, excuse me. The what I find remarkable about all this is that I watch WordPress fairly closely. I'm not quite as, studious as some other people without a doubt, but I watch it fairly closely and it's still amazing to me. How confusing a lot of this can be . There's just so much going on at the same time.

I watched a video recently with a bunch of people who were talking about theming and it was a lot of people from automatic and people who were interested in the future of full site editing and all of that. So you, you probably know who was on the screen, but I got lost so fast because it, there's just so much going on and they're talking about things which were happening probably days ago and, GitHub pull requests and all that kind of stuff.

And it was like, whoa, it's all moving really fast. And actually that leads me nicely. First segue of the year. Get in. It leads me nicely to this piece, which is a video actually. So I'm not gonna show the video cuz I'll get told off by YouTube. But this is a video by Anne McCarthy, which I wanted to alert people to.

I'm guessing that if you just go and Google this, I'll put a link in the show notes. But the video's called Site Building with WordPress 5.9 versus 6.2, which is still a work in progress. 6.2 is not yet out, out of the gate, but we're getting there. And she did this video not that long ago. And what's really amazing is how much has changed in the time since 5.9 to 6.2.

Now, honestly, I can't tell you how many months that is, but it's not that many, it's within a reasonable amount. , was it just 12 months? Yeah. Yeah. But it was really obvious looking. So she splits the video broadly in, in half. She shows what, how we did it in 5.9 which at the time felt, revolutionary new and interesting and usable and what have you.

And then she shows you what's gonna be coming in 6.2 and it's basically the exact same things, but with extra bells and whistles. And I just think it's a video worth watching because it, if you are, if you're faltering in your confidence in Gutenberg, and I know quite a lot of people are, they're they'd rather stick with their page builder or what have you, and can't quite see where the project is heading.

This is a real way of ReSTOR. your faith in it all. I think because it just goes to show in 11 minutes roughly how much work has been done and how people have been listened to and when people have suggested new features where possible they've been added in. So really it is just me saying Bravo. I've not yet seen anybody produce a piece of content like that where they just compare one year ago with this year in a video.

Normally it's just a tirade of, okay, this is coming next, this is coming next, and you really don't see what the context is. And so I thought that was a really nice video. I dunno if any of you three actually managed to see it, but I, it just made me feel like we were in, in safe hands, really.

[00:22:38] Bud Kraus: Yeah. And something that's, even if you go back to, I just real quick, if you go back to, WordPress 5.0 and look at that compared to, oh my Lord, where we're today.

Yeah, that's remarkable. Absolutely remarkable. It is literally, building a taking a, a twin engine airplane and turning it into a space shuttle while it's flying , that's so

[00:23:02] Nathan Wrigley: easy to do. No No, I think she did actually make remarkable, no. Yeah. Really remarkable. Sorry, Arin, I think I crosstalk to you.

No,

[00:23:10] Arindo Duque: yeah. Like I have conflicting views about this cuz I'm able to put myself in the shoes of the end user. The people that are like logs into the word browser admin, it's making changes to some pages. Adding a new post, stuff like that. And when I see this video like that person, it amazes me.

I get the same feeling, the same feelings that you guys get as a developer, though this video is extremely anxiety inducing because you get to see how every time that she displayed something that changed drastically, I had a corresponding open ticket, right? On our support system telling us that something on our blocks broke and that we need to fix it.

So it was like, it was a trip down memory lane on how fast a fast development cycle. It's great for the end user, I think, but at the same time, if you have to maintain compatibility with all of those changes happening at that pace, if you have a small team such hours, it can be, it can prove itself to be a challenge.

It's one of the reasons why it took us so long to really start to develop things for the block editor because I didn't feel like we had the resources to keep up with the pace of development and changes that they were making. But like now, nowadays the number of breaking changes that they're pushing is very small.

So it's almost it feels like it's stable now, at least in terms of development you can build for it. With a certain degree of confidence that things will not break from that point moving forward, which,

[00:25:24] Nathan Wrigley: which is great. It that's a really interesting perspective. And to be completely honest with you, it's not one that I had even considered.

I'm not a developer. I don't have a plugins and I don't have clients in that way. And yeah that's fascinating. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective. If memory serves in the video, I think she said that 6.2 marks the end of phase two of the Gutenberg project. Yeah. So site editing as it's, as we're now calling it is gonna be over.

by the end of this. It'll continue. Ok. Yeah. It's not gonna be the main focus is shifting over to consecutive or whatever the word is, consecutive editor. Collaboration. Collaboration, yeah. AKA Google Docs kind of thing. . But it did make me wonder a if the pace of development will slow down.

And so rather than there being a whole bucket load of things released every few months, it'll be more like one thing, each time of new fresh installer WordPress comes out. But also I did wonder it still feels like the whole site editing thing still feels really quite confusing to me. So I await to see what 6.2 brings and whether or not it's gonna be, do we throw the, do we throw our page builders under a boss yet, or do we do we still feel that they're like, way ahead in terms of the features.

[00:26:47] Bob Dunn: well, something like I can really induce. So a lot of feelings because you could be looking at it and thinking, my God, I didn't even know this was happening in 5.9. Now I really feel left behind . It can go to Spectrum there with the whole thing. Looking at that, depending who's inter I imagine most typical users wouldn't be interested in watching a video like that.

Kind of they're, they wanna focus on what's happening right now and stuff. . But I can understand the rendo and, the anxiety he felt because it can be like, oh my god, now what's the next one? Interesting stuff,

but

[00:27:24] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. Cool. Yeah, definitely. If there's nothing else to say, I think, Bob did you have anything to finish off on?

Yeah, just

[00:27:31] Bud Kraus: with the rapid change, especially in the Black Editor, it is impossible, I found to create any kind of course, prerecorded content. , it's just it's insane. I tried it and. I'm insane. So I happen to be teaching a live class next week, two, two days next week. And this is the only way you can teach WordPress now is through live classes because recorded is just ridiculous. It's just it's insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even know how to, and I think about it, I don't even know how to do this anymore because there's so much now that I consider fundamental teaching that how am I gonna do this in two days?

[00:28:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. On the one hand, we want it all to be progressing rapidly, and on the other hand, we want it to not be progressing rapidly.

Yes. Dunno. I d quite where that ends up as we,

[00:28:24] Bud Kraus: as one last thing. As people have seen through this whole progress process and been reminded of how slow people are to adopt a new changes, maybe all of us here are more readily accepting new changes, but the public forget about it. Yeah. It's just not, it's gonna take a very long time for most people to embrace Gutenberg.

They don't right now.

[00:28:50] Nathan Wrigley: No. I'm gonna just segue a little bit and throw in a couple of comments. The first one is from, it's from Max. Thank you Max. And he's just, it's just a nice, just a generally nice thing to say. He says, happy New Year, wishing you a successful and productive year ahead. May all of your goals and projects be met with success is to a great start to the year.

Yay. Thank you, max. That's so kind. I appreciate the sentiment and I hope that it's true. And reflecting it right back at you. And also Michelle Frette joining us from New, oh, New York State or New York City. I never know which I know you're in New York. She's Rochester. She's in Rochester, New York now.

That's right. But anyway, thank you Michelle for joining us. I appreciate it. Forgive the blatant promotion, but I'm going to blatantly promote something because Why not? We have the page builder Summit coming round again. It's actually version five of the page builder Summit. It's in it's in February, so it's actually not that far away.

It's in about six weeks or something like that, 20th of February. And we are, we're looking for a few sponsors. If you are connected in any way to, I don't know, WordPress company or a WordPress service or something like that, and you fancy being a part of the summit, it's a quid pro quo. It's the usual.

Thing we put your logo on, we've put ads in videos and things like that, but this is the page to go to. It's page builder summit.com/sponsors. And if you scroll down, there's, the usual laundry list of why I think at least. Anyway, this is a good idea. It's been pretty popular in the past.

As I said, we've done four, this is version five. So yeah, reach out. You can always reach me. My email address is, the usual, what you'd imagine it's admin at, and then. WP Builds.com or there's a contact form on our webpage if you want to go and check that out. That's the first thing. So there's number one bit of promotion out the way.

I'll be promoting it every week, , get used to it. I also, quick,

[00:31:01] Bud Kraus: Nathan, can I just interject real quick about the page builder or summary, because you and I don't really know each other and I do wanna say, I think it's one of the finest online presentations around period. The quality of your speakers and their presentations is first rate.

And I've enjoyed them so much. I usually don't pay attention to any of this stuff. I've almost always go to your as many of these sessions. So that's it.

[00:31:29] Nathan Wrigley: The, yeah. Thank you. The the check is in the mail. Thanks, bud. Yeah, that's what I'm

[00:31:33] Bud Kraus: looking for. . That's what I was looking for.

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:37] Nathan Wrigley: Thanks for sponsoring us. Yeah. But no, that's very kind of you. I appreciate that. I can't, in all honesty, claim to have any any jurisdiction over what the presenters say. It just so happens that we've got a bunch of really good people. I agree. Coming on, and this year is no different.

We've got a whole bunch of people coming on. Anyway, there we go. First thing, second thing is next week, not this week, we're doing the first of our u ui ux sessions with Peach and ne. We've got a few websites submitted already, but what she does basically is cast her eye over some WordPress websites and gives you a free appraisal.

She normally spends about 20 minutes, and it's just initial thoughts. She's very deliberate in that she doesn't look at it beforehand. So what she sees is what she's viscerally thinking when she sees the website. If you've got a project that you're working on and you would like somebody with her expertise to to have a look at it, feel free to go to this page.

It's WP Builds.com/ui. Fill in the. And also we're gonna be featuring some deceptive design, which used to be called dark patterns. So if you've got any examples of people on the web who are just really abusing your trust and making you click buttons that you never intended to click, I've come up with some Ws over Christmas, people trying to pull money out of my wallet for op sells to this and that, and it really feels like I'm doing something that I, different to what I am.

You can include that in the form as well. So there we go. That's gonna be on the 17th of January, which is a Tuesday, 3:00 PM UK time. Same page as your viewing. This probably WP Builds.com/live. Okay. The promotion is over. Sorry guys. Apologies. . Mania Kamal, who is just fabulous. Justin on the tavern, always used to love writing things about man's projects cuz he's done so many particularly around the block editor.

Just thought this was really nice. You might wanna pick this one up for your clients. So it's a free plugin and it's called Block Editor Kit for Contact Form seven or abbreviated CF seven Blocks. And what he's done I think is a bit of a stroke of Genius Contact. Form seven is a free, I'm sure there's loads of free plug plugins for form.

It seems to me almost like the default if you don't pay for Gravity forms or whatever, formidable forms or whatever it may be, then it feels like you're probably likely to have come across contact Form seven totally free. But the UI is a little bit lacking, shall we say. What Mania has on is he's created a block interface to build out.

Your forms, and if you are looking at the screen, which you may be doing, if not, just, if you're listening to us on audio apologies. But you imagine a thing like gravity forms where you've got a panel on the left with all of the different things that you could throw in. So it's a paragraph, it's a url, it's a telephone, it's a text area, it's an email.

You drag those in, rearrange them, put your, your title in and some prefilled form fields and what have you, and you're done. And it's just a really nice implementation. It is free contact. Form seven is free. And so now you've got an option to make fairly complicated forms, trivially easy.

So bravo. I have to be honest, I haven't installed it and I haven't played. But mania really genuinely does seem to be one of those people in the WordPress space who I'm gonna say I would trust it to work, let's just put it that way. I have every face that he would've done a good job. It's got one five star review at the moment and yeah, so it's it's on wordpress.org and as I said, the name of it is Block Editor Kit for contact form seven.

And the icon is like, of a little mountain. So bravo mania. I think that's really good. Any. Any thoughts on that?

[00:35:39] Bob Dunn: I think it's interesting because I'm I'm, I remember contact seven guys I don't even know when, forever, right? It was forever. Yeah. It was like a decade over a decade ago. Was it?

It's gotta be, it seems yeah. How many people maybe have used it for a long time? Simple sites that just, I'm not gonna change this. It does the job, it's all I need. Now he's given them an opportunity to, do a little bit more with it. And taking something, it's a different approach than most plug-in Bakers take, something that's been around that long and to add some spice to it a little bit more better, UI and everything.

Yeah, I think it's a, a. It's wow, you almost, when you first see it, you think, that's crazy. It's been around forever. And somebody I think before the show said, , why didn't this happen earlier? But it, yeah, it's it's interesting and I, yeah I think it's great what he's trying to do and, maybe it will bring, especially people that are, have been using it and, even New Year's.

So

[00:36:53] Nathan Wrigley: Cool. Yeah. I'm just trying to go through some of the screenshots on the show, but the zooming in on the wordpress.org web seems to drag the header in, so it's quite hard for me to actually show you. But essentially what you're looking at is a ui, which is really up to date, modern.

There's nothing weird about it. There's nothing janky, and I feel that. contact Form seven itself was a perfectly serviceable plugin. I feel that it maybe a, maybe it wasn't quite as easy to use, creating the actual form fields and all that. There's some sort of disconnect. But now that you can build this in a, what is a familiar ui, and I think you've hit the nail on the head, Bob, I think r really, if you've got a client who just has a little brochure website, they don't wanna get involved in licenses for a plugin where really all they want is a contact form.

It's not doing some sort of mortgage calculation or, uploading tremendously difficult, complicated fields or pricing calculations and all that. It's just a contact form. This now makes it easy for your clients to, to do just that. Yeah. Anyway, Bo Arin, if you've got anything?

[00:37:59] Bud Kraus: No,

[00:38:01] Arindo Duque: yeah.

Except the thing.

[00:38:03] Nathan Wrigley: Go ahead. No, go ahead. Let's go. Let's go for Arin first. Go. Yeah, the

[00:38:08] Arindo Duque: thing that contact form seven was the first, I think it was pretty much the first WordPress plugin that I ever installed, right? Because like when, whenever you're building your first website, the first thing that you want to build is a contact form and it's right there.

Like you don't even need to search for forms. It's right there on the first page when you go to the install a new plugins page. And I was thinking like, how would I go about

blocking contact form seven? And the thing that strikes me is that it I don't think it's that hard to do because the way you construct a form on site contact form seven is pretty much you add some text and then you drop a couple of short codes. Yeah. Whenever you, wherever you want a form input to show, which is pretty much what the block editor.

Does . So it's incredible that we had to wait this long for someone to come up with a block interface for contact form seven. It's it's truly mind boggling that it, it

[00:39:22] Nathan Wrigley: took this long. Yeah, it's interesting. So I'm just let me just put the screen on. So I, if this gives you some insight, but if you look at this screenshot you end up with this little generated short code on the side.

So we're obviously, we're in this radio bottom field. Please rate our website. And then we've got this output, short code here, radio user rating default and what have you. So I'm guessing it is literally using. The way that, the method that you just mentioned. But then it's putting all these different things, like you can turn the label on and off.

Looks like you can put a label first in the checkbox last. There's things like dimensions and as I said, I haven't played with it, so maybe there's some sort of styling options in there. You can see at the top, you can change it from a tick box, like a literal square box with a tick in it to a little radio button.

But I dunno if you can do things like rounded corners on the forms and change the colors of the borders and things like that. I dunno if he's gone that far with it, but Yeah. Yeah, it's great. I agree. It's been long in the making and mania. Thank you for doing it, bud. Sorry, you were gonna say No, the,

[00:40:28] Bud Kraus: no, I'll just be brief.

It's just, I remember this was one of the very first plug-ins I. like 12 years ago at Oh, in New York City. Yeah. And I, and the students didn't like it because they had to look at something like Code . Yes. Like short codes or whatever at HTML or markdown. I can't even remember what the heck it was.

But I in certain ways regret that we're losing all that. I know we're, in the no code era, and that's the wave of the future or the wave of. But as a guy that used to teach, html, css, little JavaScript and stuff like that you miss all that.

[00:41:09] Nathan Wrigley: Anyway, you you all you've gotta do Bud is just never use this plugin and keep banging the gong of the

[00:41:16] Bud Kraus: old That's right. Go back to contact form seven, which I haven't seen in years, right? ? Yes. Yeah.

[00:41:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yes. I confess I haven't used it. I've ended up with all sorts of different form plugins in my arsenal and contact Form seven just because the ones that I've opted for do a lot more.

I've always just installed them, but, This is free, completely free. The whole package is free. So yeah, if you've got client websites, simple website, just need a contact form. There you go. Oh look, pizza dropped in Peach and ne we were just mentioning to her, she says hello. Looks like she's arrived just in the, just at the right time.

We, no, we've finished your bit pizza. Sorry, . Yeah we've done. And yes, she says, please come. So that's, yeah, February the 17th, join us. And Michelle Frette says, WS form is the best though. Yes. I'm sure that Mark West Guard would agree. Yeah. Yeah. Tremendous. Yeah. Tremendous indeed. Ws form.

Go and check it out. It's worth looking at. Okay, let's move on. This is the next one. Bob brought this to my attention. Don't quite know how I missed this, but Bob thought brought this to my attention. It's as simple as the title word, camp Europe 2023 speaker applications, open organizers call for more interactive sessions.

Anything you wanna say, Bob, before I get into my screen? Yeah,

[00:42:37] Bob Dunn: I think what caught me on this was that and what's happened with, I don't know if anybody's gone to, listing. I know some people have Word Camp Europe, war, word camp. You as, I think the the sessions were a little bit light and I think that was due to two years of, us all being locked up and finally getting together.

So a lot of people spent more time talking with people and interacting and stuff. So I think that kind of had an effect on it. And I think this is something they're trying to pull people more into the. Sessions because I think over time, I don't know if you've noticed it at different word camps, that for the amount of people that are there, it seems like it's a, there could be lot fuller sessions and it's just a way, I think, to try to bring people in.

Instead of making it the, I don't wanna say same old sessions, cuz that's unfair to the speakers because they aren't, but just a little bit more interactive and get a little bit more creative. And I think they've been talking about this for a while. I've heard different mumblings about it, but it's just, I think it's a good approach to try to bring some variety and a little bit more hands-on rather than just sitting and listening to somebody all the time.

[00:44:03] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So the, there seemed, I dunno if it was like a survey or something, but they somehow got data from the attendees of Word camps and they, it seems that they, there was a general consensus they would like more interactive sessions. And the example that Sarah Gooding gives in this piece was there was a presentation, I don't remember where word Camp in the Czech Republic, it says where the security researcher set up a wifi hotspot.

and then probably didn't tell the participants maybe you did, I don't know. But demonstrated what was going on with their wifi and all of that interactivity makes it really engaging. And you would imagine that the workshops that are being put on at Word Camps at the moment, they seem to be in the ascendancy.

They seem to be getting a lot of interaction cuz people like to show up and open their laptop and try stuff out, don't they? Yeah. Anyway, it looks like the speaker application is gonna be open until I think early February is what I have in my mind. Let me see if I can find it in the article.

Yeah, first week of February. And you'll receive a response by the second week of March. And the event itself is gonna be on June the ninth to the 10th in Athens, Georgia. No. Athens, Ohio. Athens, Greece, . Yeah. Yeah. World Camp Europe in near Atlanta. No. Is anybody going Arin or are you gonna go, I know that you are based in Europe now, and I saw you at Word Camp Europe in Portugal.

That was really nice. We talked about sushi if memory serves. . Yeah, . But oh. And I've got a story about sushi with Bob as well. Oh, dead. Don't

[00:45:54] Bob Dunn: even listen. Let's, I can, we'll save that for another show. Yeah.

[00:45:58] Nathan Wrigley: Sushi. Sushi

[00:45:59] Arindo Duque: seems to be only story. Nathan. The last time that I saw my airbag, my, my AirPods Pro was that, that that time where when we, we sat down on that bench to talk about sushi.

That was the last time that I saw my AirPod, my AirPods Pro.

[00:46:18] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And funnily enough, that was the first time I ever found a pair of AirPods in. Oh,

[00:46:24] Arindo Duque: oh really? . .

[00:46:27] Nathan Wrigley: No. Cause I really, what? You left the bench when we were talking? Probably, yeah. Oh, got it. . Oh. That's the effect I have on people. They forget things.

Oh yeah. So sushi stories, but are in those stories. That's lovely memory. Yeah. It's do you think you'll be going, will you make the effort to go. Athens.

[00:46:46] Arindo Duque: Yeah, I will, I'm actually considering submitting a top proposal, but now that I know that I have to make it all interactive, I'm not sure

I'm, yeah, I don't think it's all interactive.

[00:47:00] Nathan Wrigley: It feels to me like they're gonna, maybe there's a little bit of a waiting towards interactive, but I think you could do a mind, you aren't there constraints around for example, you're not allowed, if you've got a, if you've got a a paid product, you can't show it on the screen or so that there are constrict common.

I think

[00:47:18] Arindo Duque: that there, there are restrictions to that. Yes. But the thing is I don't feel. The least bit comfortable doing that. Yeah, so whenever I do like talks and work camps and stuff like that. I try to distance myself as much as possible for, from talking anything related to one of our products.

[00:47:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yes. Just, oh, you're perfect then you are the ideal candidate for . Oh, yeah.

[00:47:43] Arindo Duque: Just fuel.

[00:47:44] Bob Dunn: Fuel, yeah. And I think it'll be a mix. Yeah. I'd say go for it. Because, you still want the sessions. People, sometimes somebody will go to a session and they don't wanna be interactive. They want to just.

sit and learn. So I think they just probably are hoping they'll look for a good balance.

[00:48:04] Nathan Wrigley: Peter just, yeah, comments, she says it's all lovely, but an interactive session takes even longer to prepare than a lecture, and the speaker needs to be very experienced, I imagine. Only the ones able to offer. And this will be, those paid to be that.

Yeah, it's an interesting point. The amount of time that you'd have to put in upfront, I know picture it is, it's a topic that is close to your heart about the equity of who gets to go to world camps and also, whether people are paid for their contributions and so on. So yeah, that's a good point.

If something does take a lot more time. And also there's, I guess there's just that risk that something will go wrong if you make it interactive. We've all been there, , Elon Musk with his little hammer on the the car window. It's unbreakable. Oh okay. Those kind of things, if it go, if it goes wrong in front of a crowd, it is a bit of egg on the face, isn't it?

Yeah. Good point. But I think ado, I think you should go for it. That's my personal Yeah. Thought. Second vote there. Yeah. Two votes. Two outta four, bud. What are you saying? Arundo should go for it or not?

[00:49:13] Bud Kraus: Oh, absolutely. And Natalie only, yeah.

[00:49:15] Nathan Wrigley: Three, three. Three .

[00:49:17] Bud Kraus: Wow. How could I be disagreeable?

No, actually I wanna apply to speak too, so you should not apply. Oh, . Oh, so there I wanna clear the field. Get outta the way. Anyway, no, I wasn't so much

pressure. outta my shoulders.

All right, thank you. So I wasn't going to apply to speak. We did get a WP Tavern post this week or last week about not, what you're, Nathan, what you were talking about, but also I know they're always interested in people speaking who have a disability, and I'm very fortunate to have one

I'm legally blind and I spoke at Word Camp Boston a bunch of years ago on a topic called My Way with WordPress and how I use computers and WordPress and teaching and all that as and how my legal blindness of fits into all that. And it's and then I also applied, I'll make this as quick as I can too.

Chicago and dc same topic, both accepted and of course Covid came in the way and blew that all out. So I am gonna apply to give this talk about , being disabled, not disabled, but visually impaired and how I use technology to achieve the things I do and the benefits, what I've learned would help other people too.

That's usually a popular kind of a topic and I hope that they get, they pick me now. The other thing that this post mentioned was a site called diversity in Tech. Yeah. So I registered with that. Hopefully if I get picked to speak, I may find a sponsor because. Going to Greece at that time of the year is pricey.

My wife and I have been talking, why do they do this in June? It's so expensive in June. Why can't you just do this in mart? We know, all that stuff. But we my wife has enough points to go. I don't have enough points, travel points, but I sure would like to go to Greece and be with everybody.

And yeah. And hopefully the first step would be in doing, in applying and maybe being accepted to speak. So we'll see. Yeah.

[00:51:36] Bob Dunn: Can I just interject something real quick, Nathan? Yeah, of course. Just very quick. Anybody that is interested in that, do join the word WordPress Slack channel. The diverse speaker support channel, cuz they will actually do some really good I follow it myself and just to see what's going on, but it is on the make WordPress slack channel.

I would, because they do have workshops. They do have different things to help give tips and they actually have mentors in there that will help you if you're thinking of speaking, at a Word camp and you've never done it and stuff. And so there's some yeah. So anyway for anybody listening or, Anyone.

Thank you. That's, it's a, it's

[00:52:22] Bud Kraus: a good channel. One other thing too, when you, when I filled out the form to, when I submitted to diversity in tech, one of the things they, they get a whole list of are you this, are you there? One of the things they said is are you over, are you of an age in which one does not expect you to be comfortable with technology?

Something like that. I go, oh, I can check that box. . , you always look for like box. So is the, if that helps. Not a problem, because none of my friends are. Comfortable with tech. So

[00:52:55] Nathan Wrigley: on that point, I think there are a few now the only one actually that comes to mind the name of it is Don't yos. Don't they have a diversity fund for attending?

. They do the event. In fact, I've got a feeling that PET might be able to speak to that. So pet, if you're still listening and you could clarify for Bob whether there's an application to be put in there. That'd be interesting to know. Yeah. And they also,

[00:53:21] Bob Dunn: The MERT Camp Asia, there's some, one of their pages I'm not on the site right now, but they are asking companies to let them know for, they can have a bucket list of companies that are willing to help support speakers to get to Word Camp. So they're going, they're putting. That together? I think it's on or is it? Yeah, I believe it was on Word Camp Europe, or is Word Camp Asia? I think all of 'em might be doing it now. Yeah, more and more. But go check out the sites cuz they do have, I saw something, something came across my radar just yesterday that was about that, and I think it was an announcement, might have been from Ward Camp here.

[00:54:03] Nathan Wrigley: I, it's, I'm not meaning to suggest Bob that this, these resources are abundant or anything, but I do know they are out there, so it might be a, I imagine you'd have to apply and probably be in a vetting procedure. Oh, there we go. Peach's written something. She says, yes, Bob. There is a general application.

Yeah, that's, so I

[00:54:23] Bob Dunn: think what you'll do is you'll apply to each of the companies, because the company's Word camp is gonna American decision. They're just gonna, and I know that we, hopefully by the time Word Camp Europe comes around, we have some. Funding we're gonna be doing for contributors for contributor day.

So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna promise anything, but I've gotta, if everything goes in place as timeline wise that's one gonna be one of our efforts to do the woo is supporting some funding too as well. So that's nice. Anyway. Yeah, so

[00:54:57] Bud Kraus: one of the one of the tricky things about speaking though is that they don't let you know until like early April, which is gonna be very tough to make plans

[00:55:05] Nathan Wrigley: to get Yeah.

They say

[00:55:07] Bud Kraus: here, that's one of the pr I think it's. Yeah, they say here,

[00:55:13] Nathan Wrigley: call for speakers will close first week of February and applications will receive a response by the second week of March. Ah, but I dunno if that's the second week of March or May. That's what it says. And then it says, speakers will be announced in the second week of April.

But I'm guessing that the announcement is, oh, now it's publicly assumption, right? Yeah. So maybe you'd find out if you were successful in the second week of March. Okay. So that gives you, what was the date of it? Enough time. The rest of March, April, may, yes. It's over two months. Its tight. Yeah, it's quite tight, isn't it?

If you've gotta make these applications right. Peaches. Throwing the comments in thick and fast here. They're very helpful. By the way, Amy says that she's loving the community sport support community sport , the community support happening in real time. Thank you Amy. Appreciate it. We, it's not normally like this in all honesty.

No. With this form, you don't have to apply to the individual companies. They'll do it for you. Okay. Which, wait,

[00:56:09] Bud Kraus: which form are you talking about?

[00:56:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, she says she's gonna find the site. So hold tight. Let's see if she,

[00:56:15] Bud Kraus: Chris, diversity in tech. I thought the idea of diversity in tech would be sponsors are also looking at that database to see, oh, I could sponsor this person or that person.

Yeah. Yeah. So she comes back. It's like a

[00:56:29] Nathan Wrigley: marketplace. Yeah. Yeah. She, so she can, if you want, that is to say, apply to them all one at a time. But the whole point of this. Yeah. Is that they handle it for you? Bo I really would rather you with it. Wait teacher, if you do, Bo, if you don't know Bob, I can give him your No, she knows me.

Swap your emails. Okay, perfect. We know each other. Okay. Ideal. Anyway, that's Word Camp Europe. I don't know if I'll be going. I'd very much like to, but We'll we'll see what we get, what we do. Okay. Acquisition news. We haven't had any for probably 28 minutes or something. So let's have one quickly.

This is to say that the Ju Duplicator plugin, I confess, I've never installed the Duplicator plugin, but 1.5 million other people have, so it's pretty darn popular . It does what you'd imagine. It's a duplicator plugin. It, I, it's, it's a copy the site, push it somewhere else kind of thing. But they do have a bunch of commercial licenses.

I don't know what you get for that, but they go from 49 to $300 a year. Basically, they have been bought by a company that's been buying a lot of late called Awesome Automotive. The people who are responsible for the plugin. A chap called Bob Riley and somebody called Corey Laley, I'm guessing you pronounce it, they're actually moving away.

They're no longer interested in this plugin, but the team that they've got surrounding it will be moving over to awesome automotive. It's the usual the usual caveat supply, but they basically said, we have shared our extensive feature with wishlist and we know that with awesome motives, resources, and experience, that wishlist will be, that wishlist will become a reality much faster.

So they're passing on the bat, they're not gonna be involved. So if you are using duplicator and you know this is of interest to you, you probably should be, I don't know, find out what the plan is. But yeah, more acquisitions. So this one's a big one though, because 1.5 million customers, man alive, that's a boatload of people.

That's pretty interesting. Yeah. So anybody want to chip in?

[00:58:43] Bob Dunn: No. The answer is it's no another day in WordPress.

[00:58:47] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Wait six minutes. There'll be another bus coming. Don't worry. Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, there you go. That's the thing. I'm pretty much done with directly WordPress news. Let me see if that's true. Yes, I am.

But we're gonna just stray for, I don't know, 25 minutes or so into some other weird stuff. I want to get I wanna get everybody's opinion on this story. It's written by Ithe, but honestly it could have been written by a whole bunch of different media outlets. Oh, last pass. Oh. How you have made my life difficult over the last few weeks, basically since you've dropped a bomb just before Christmas and then walked away.

LastPass has been my password manager of choice ever since it came out. Really early on I started throwing things in it and thought it was absolutely superb. If you haven't been following the story, Several months ago, they announced that some data that, that they'd had a breach, but that everything was okay.

Nothing to worry about, nothing to see here. And then just before Christmas, just before Christmas, like that was a good coincidence. They decided to let everybody know that everybody's data had been stolen. Actually they didn't say that, but by not saying it was everybody, I think the implication is that it was everybody.

Because if you're in charge of the PR at a company like Laspas, surely if it wasn't everybody's data that was stolen, you'd say not everybody's data was stolen. And they Yeah, definitely didn't say that. So rest assured though. The data is encrypted. They've nicked a blob of more or less encrypted data.

Some fields, like the U r l fields are in plain text, which I didn't know. , because obviously you can start to make connections, can't you? If if there's a, I don't know, expensive bank.com is in your password list. Where you gonna be attacking first? The . They're all encrypted.

But it turns out in a slightly interesting twist of events, they updated their encryption algorithm, I think it was about two years ago, and I forget the name of the one that they moved onto. But inside the settings for LastPass, there was this option to increase the number of hashes. In other words, the number of times it was encrypted the recommendation.

The last pass had was that you did this quite a bizarre number, but it's 100,100, so it's 1 0 0 1, 0 0. In other words, when you, when the vault is encrypted it's hashed 100,000 and a bit more. Times. Some people though, have , oh, some people have reported that their settings never got updated by last pass and have been stuck on 5,000.

And it's not like they issued a blog post or said, go and change this setting. It's ridiculous. They just, left it. And I think if it's a th if it's 5,000 hash. I think there's a pretty good chance in the next few years that some piece of technology will come along, which will crack that wide open.

I know the slow because everything's in there, literally everything. If you come across my account, please , just move on. So I've moved, I've decided I no longer trust slash class, like the technology and the crypto was probably all fine, but it was nicked. They didn't mention it straight away and then when they did mention it, it's yeah, we'll mention bits of it and we'll do it just before Christmas and we'll put it in a blog post and we won't really let you know what's going on.

And the biggest in love

[01:02:36] Arindo Duque: post. Yeah. There has a no index metadata.

[01:02:40] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, you are kidding. It gets No, I'm not but also the fact that they didn't reach out and say, Your vault was nicked. They just put out a generic blog post. So anyway, my trust in Las Pass has completely evaporated. I've moved over to Bit Warden and so I was saying to Bob earlier that I basically sat around during Christmas and didn't do very much.

Actually, that's not true. I spent quite a lot of time changing passwords on my high value stuff. The reason I wanna bring this story up though, is it really hit me pretty hard. How much of my life could be turned upside down on the basis of somebody finding out one thing that I know? If you get my last first master password, or let's say somebody brute forces, that I am in a lot of trouble and I really don't know, for example, what my credit card company would say.

I don't know what my, what my insurance company would say. I don't know what all of the companies would have to say if they said it's been out in the public domain for ages. We've known since December. You should have changed all your username and passwords. But I got into the habit of making a unique password for every service.

I've got something like 1800 passwords. I can't change them all. I'll be here until. Until I turn great. , but you get the idea, right? It's it's it's I've chucked everything at Laspas and I'm thinking I'm not sure this username, password methodology is gonna be good into the future.

Sorry, I've droned on a lot and I've vented. I have apologize. Yeah,

[01:04:25] Bob Dunn: I was gonna say, do you feel

[01:04:26] Nathan Wrigley: better after venting? Okay. Tell me about your father, . I'll lie down. Yeah, I do. I'm actually a little bit cross about it because this is a company and the whole pyramid is built upon trust, isn't it?

And if the trust evaporates, the whole businesses calmed down. I'm imagining they won't survive. I'm imagining there'll be class action lawsuits. I'm imagining that, the press will just get worse and worse. And the day somebody's vault is absolutely categorically cracked open, and it's provable that a hacker did it then.

Oh, I dunno what I'm gonna do, frankly. So first question, did anybody use last pass? And you can all smugly tell me you didn't, can't you now? Yeah. Look, everybody's shaking their head

Oh, that's why

[01:05:13] Bob Dunn: we let you have the floor buddy. Yeah,

[01:05:15] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. Oh dear. Yeah. I've moved over to a, an open source piece of software called Bit Warden, which basically does exactly the same thing. Someone really, I'm just scarlet fuck you outta the frying pan into the fire. There are a couple of reasons why I think bit warden's tech is superior, but I'm slowly moving everything over there.

I do believe that unique passwords is the way to go forward. And I know that my brain is pathetic at remembering things and I like to go for the big long pseudo random noise password of 50 characters. So I can't remember that. So I've got to trust something. And I've decided the bit warden is where I'm gonna go.

There was quite a lot of debate on Masteron about, things like one Password and key pass, which is another open source variant, which you can just keep on your own system, which is quite a nice thing. But I decided I needed it somewhere in, in an encrypted cloud. Yeah. There we go. I vented.

I'm sorry about that guys. But the wider debate, you must be storing your password somewhere. What are you

[01:06:20] Bob Dunn: doing? One password? One. One password. One password? Yeah. I just, it's been forever, it seems and I,

[01:06:27] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. So what's the thing? Why was that the superior choice in the day? Because when are you, I think there was a sale going on or

[01:06:34] Bob Dunn: something.

I don't know. I don't know. I honestly, yeah I can't even remember why I chose it. It just seemed like it was, I think it was between last pass and one password when I was choosing it. And for some reason I went with one password and that reasoning escapes me. But, I can't smugly say anything because in, never say never, but yeah.

That's it, that's why I don't understand. to make probably an informed decision. I'm not so in depth to be able to look at something and say, okay, this is definitely gonna be better, other than what you might read in their comparison marketing, which doesn't do anything. But yeah, it's it's served me so far.

So that's, that's,

[01:07:23] Nathan Wrigley: it's the comparison marketing at least there'll be like an easy last pass section. Yeah. There really is. Hacked cross wells. Hacked tick, yeah. . Yeah. But yeah I dunno, a lot of people. The two choices that kept coming up. So I put a little vote out and I also was contributing to other people's votes who were saying, where are you going?

Where are you going after last pass? The most popular one seems to have been bit warden, and I think that might have been a price thing because a personal account on Bit Warden in Bit Warden's cloud is te it's only $10 a year, so it's fairly affordable. . . Whereas I think one password was like 10 x that I think it was a

[01:08:05] Bob Dunn: hundred dollars year.

Yeah. It's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, and maybe that's one of the reasons I actually went to it. I thought, maybe it's a bit more in there, yes. But resources in that need to be put in, but that could be all a. A fallacy too

[01:08:21] Nathan Wrigley: I would say that, if you just take the pricing analogy, it must be at least 10 times more secure, cuz bit warden is 10 and one password.

Stack. Okay, yeah, we'll

[01:08:32] Bob Dunn: settle with that. That's what I'll say from here on in.

[01:08:35] Nathan Wrigley: I think broadly the technology is the same. There is this one little extra feature with Bit Warden where they've got this sort of what do they call it? Like a login code where not only do you get, you have to log in with the username and password and you can put two fa like I've got a what's it called? A YubiKey as well. But also there's this passphrase and it's made up of 10, no five random, but fairly long words. And in order for any, I think any external API or anything like that to connect, they have to. Not only that, you've got the username and password, but if a new service wants to get into it, then they have to provide that token as well.

And that's basically on guessable. So it's another layer whether or not it's as good as one password, I don't know. But yeah, I was a pile of liquid, a puddle of liquid during Christmas. Just, oh, my boy tearful Nathan crying, his last pass tears, .

[01:09:29] Arindo Duque: When I was shopping for a password manager, I was also divided between last pass and one password, and I'm not sure why, but I felt, yeah, that, yeah, that's, I'm not sure why visiting the different, like landing pages, one password communicated more.

Si like a more secure vibe. I'm not sure. . Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. That's something Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I followed the whole story about last pass on Hacker News, and as it was developing, people were posting new discoveries. And one thing that they, they found out is that LastPass U was using c s as like a feature.

So in order to disable certain features for certain users, they would add a display non to a block on the page. Oh, please. And that's not something you want to hear from the people that are like, keeping your credit card info and your password it's, and stuff like that. I I was so glad that I made the right choice.

[01:10:43] Nathan Wrigley: I listened to a podcast called Security Now, which is every week. It's a guy called Steve Gibson, and we'll talk a bit more about him in just a second. And if you go back like to 2008 or something like that, when the whole product started, it really was like the business. And it was created by this founder who was really inspired to do it all.

And it it was really great. But it, it seems that over the time that, they've added new features and all of these things have been creeping in, but also they sold to LogMeIn. And then it turns out that more recently, I dunno when this happened it's now owned by a venture capital company and I can barely imagine a worse custodian of something like a password manager, a company that wants to extract as much value out of the customers as possible.

And you can imagine the shortcuts, should we do this, it'll probably take about 50 hours of development time or we could just use Cs s and hide it. Yeah, . Okay. . Let's use the CSS trick, shall we? I don't really know, but yeah, here we go. So Amy says that she's a one password user. All right. I've definitely made the wrong decision here, haven't I?

I'm gonna have to wait till next Christmas and change all over again. Anyway, there you go. But that led me to this. I was mentioning the the guy from that podcast called Steve Gibson. He has this fabulous thing which nobody's using, but he spent quite a while building it a few years ago, and it's called Squirrel.

And honestly, I haven't the faints idea how this works, but he's explained it on numerous occasions on, in about minute three of a 60 minute podcast. You just can't keep up cuz it's just acronyms and things interacting with other things and ways of making sure it's secure. But he's come up with this idea of this passwordless login through QR codes.

And the Voodoo is this right? Website displays QR code on the webpage to log in. You have a mobile phone. With data that you put into it, you point it at the QR code, you are immediately logged in the website, knows nothing about you, that it never needed to know your your username. You didn't have to make one of those up.

It didn't need to know like an email address. It just needed to know that mobile phone connected. And from now on, if that mobile phone or wherever you export what's in that mobile phone to another device, it just knows that's an account and it's somebody's account and it's unique.

And I just think that's a actually quite a clever implementation of technology. Of course, , of course, the Achilles heel is if you lose the phone, you are utterly screwed. But then again, with my last pass account and bit warden, if I, if memory fails me and I can't remember my. Master password, basically.

This is true. So anyway, this is the WordPress plugin, which will allow you to be able to do that is called Squirrel login by Daniel person. I'm not gonna recommend that you do it cuz I think probably Steve Gibson and four other people on the planet are using it. But it's quite a neat idea.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry, I'm droning on. Let's move on quickly. Ambe Hines, this one's for you. I was chatting to Ambe Hines at Word Camp us and I, we, we were having a few drinks and there was several other people there and I told her that that the word awesome was used too much. And I just thought I'd mentioned that she posted a reply to me this week saying that apparent.

It's been decided that the word goat, greatest of all time is being used too much as well, .

[01:14:35] Bob Dunn: That's true. So is amazing. So what I'm thinking, can something be awesome and amazing at the same time?

[01:14:42] Nathan Wrigley: I think Awesome. Okay. Oh no, you've got me started now. The last past thing built me up and now I'm ready to go.

I think that on the spectrum of really bad over here, I dunno what the word for really bad is, but, you got awful and terrible and eventually it go. And I think at the end of the spectrum, the opposite end of really good is awesome. And once, once you've said the word awesome, awesome to me is like watching your first child being born.

It's literally in, you are in awe. Your jaw has hit the ground and there's dribble coming out. And everybody's looking at me going, what the hell? That's

[01:15:24] Bob Dunn: awesome. And that's awesome, right? That's

[01:15:27] Bud Kraus: a different

[01:15:28] Nathan Wrigley: in language now. It's like you post a tweet, some little nonsense and every awesome, it's awesome.

Yes, not

[01:15:36] Bob Dunn: awesome. , okay. It's the most overused. I won't

[01:15:41] Nathan Wrigley: get into it either. My, my conversation with Ambe Hines is, as soon as you've exhausted that end of the spectrum, where do you go? It's gotta be really awesome or amazingly awesome. And eventually the language means nothing. So anyway, goat, greatest of all time.

Not allowed to say it anymore. Apparently Resting Peace. It's the whole load of banished words from this year goat. I subscribe to the

[01:16:04] Arindo Duque: idea of banning

[01:16:04] Nathan Wrigley: goat. Yeah. Goats. Yeah. Greatest of all time. Yeah. You see it all the time now, don't you? On social media, especially around the World Cup mess, Leonor, Messi, steps onto goat.

Greatest footballer of all time. I have no idea. He's the greatest footballer of all time, but absolutely, apparently is another one. Gaslighting. Really? Okay. Yeah. Quiet, quitting. Quiet. Oh yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I think amazing should be substitute here

[01:16:32] Bob Dunn: regardless. Is one of those Yeah. That's like a non,

[01:16:36] Nathan Wrigley: it's a no word's, no word.

[01:16:38] Bob Dunn: No. It's like a word that's just interjected because it, you can actually say it without stumbling over. So you're quite, Phil, you're quite impressive that you can do that.

[01:16:48] Nathan Wrigley: But regardless, a bit like saying, I won't not do that.

[01:16:52] Bob Dunn: Is it like a, you've already said it and then you just add I regardless.

[01:16:58] Nathan Wrigley: So it's . We're learning things on this episode. So the list of things that this university lecturer thinks ought to be punished are goat. The acronym for greatest of all Time Inflection Point. Yeah. Quiet. Quitting, gaslighting, moving Forwards. I confess I am. So I use that one. I like that one I used.

You're, it's really not saying anything is it's like tomorrow or something like that. . Amazing. Does that make sense? Regardless, absolutely. It is what it is. And I'm going at another number 11, and that is using the phrase at the end of the. Yeah, judges just hear all the time. What happens at the end of the day?

We all go to bed. Surely that's, anyway, that'll be in the show notes. That's in, can I,

[01:17:50] Bud Kraus: I'm gonna add one to it. I'm gonna add the word now. It's not used quite as much, and this was a big bugaboo for me about 10, 15, 20 years ago, which, . So just the word. So every sentence at a start was yeah.

Yeah. When you, it's sort like a warmup.

[01:18:09] Nathan Wrigley: You just did it . Yeah. Did literally what's wrong with it? Every sentence that .

[01:18:16] Bud Kraus: But and it just drove me down. I do, said somebody would get up and start speaking and the first words. So today we're gonna, so whatever. And

[01:18:28] Bob Dunn: I podcast guests use it a lot.

Yes. Yeah. It's a, it's everybody. It's one of those segue words, Seth. It's a warmup. It's a warm it'ss. Like a, somebody has said something and you're thinking of it in your head, and then you're going on to. And it's, yeah,

[01:18:46] Nathan Wrigley: It's in interlocutor, I think. Yeah.

[01:18:49] Bob Dunn: Yeah. It's the word

[01:18:50] Bud Kraus: that's to trigger the brain for other stuff, so da, and it just, it's very easy, yeah. The great thing though is I don't hear it, or maybe I'm so used to it now. I don't hear it quite as much as I did or was conscious of it 15, 20 years

[01:19:08] Bob Dunn: ago. I'll send you one of my podcast scr transcription these times and you'll

[01:19:13] Nathan Wrigley: see search for the words. So please do. Yes. So please do.

The other one that I have found, which doesn't, nobody's really trying to describe anything with this word, so it's a bit like but one of the words that I found is crept into British English, which, and I think it's come from American English is is added around forever. Just it's peppered.

You could have four likes in a sentence and not one of them. Means anything. But it's become so common to drop it in. You

[01:19:46] Bud Kraus: haven't talked to my daughter lately. You know what

[01:19:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, like that. Yeah. Oh my God. When you actually listen to it and you're really paying attention to when the likes are used.

It's painful. It's whoa. That's such a, it's such a superfluous word. It's just, it's a word used

[01:20:04] Bob Dunn: for you. Dunno what else to say. That's it. But yeah.

[01:20:08] Arindo Duque: But the thing is as a non, like you just did it

So since English is not my first language, no. What I noticed very mean. I'm sorry. No, yeah, no, no problem. Like the thing that I noticed is that the more nervous I am, so if we play back this podcast. At the beginning I was like quite nervous because I'm always nervous when I do stuff like this.

But a as the show progresses and I start to feel more comfortable, the likes and the souls, they start to go away. Cause Good point. At the beginning I think it's just it's a way to buy time. I'm trying I'm trying like to find the words and

[01:21:02] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Is it like a, it's like a holding word.

It like buys you an extra half text half a second of time. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, it sure does. It is. We thought about that. That wasn't on the list, but I'm sorry we completely segued there. But there was a whole bunch of things, but I just thought it was a fascinating conversation to be had. Let's move on very quickly cuz I do apologize.

We're running outta time I'll try to get through them. We'll just briefly go onto some of these things. Ever. So briefly couple of YouTubers this week or last week or the week before, whatever it was, British YouTubers, I believe they came out with a new drink and it was so popular that almost immediately people were listing it on eBay for $10,000.

And I just thought can't give it to a hospital or something, rather than this bottle of drink, which is probably just full of sugar. But it did speak to me though of the power of YouTube in that people can be persuaded that something is so ground, breakly, culturally significant, that it's worth queuing up for.

And that was the real story about this. People queued up from the previous night, say cud through the night for this drink, which was gonna be available in a really popular supermarket chain. So it's not like there's 50 bottles, it was going to fill shelves. People queued up because a couple of YouTubers said, I've got this new drink if you're a YouTuber Yeah.

All power to you. Yeah. . Where are we now? Bob? Tell us about this open source website, cuz you brought this to mind.

[01:22:41] Bob Dunn: Yeah, somebody shared it on Twitter and I think it just caught me because, and I'll keep it short. Two things. One is, I think and depending on your resources, whether these are in person, whatever, if you're, in WordPress, into WordPress as much as you are, I think it's time to, people need to step out of the bubble and find good like-minded conferences to, say, enrich yourself and not always just say, Hey, when's the next word, camp.

When's the next word? Camp. I gone by this, in my previous life, gone to several different conferences. So I think it's just, yeah, it's step out the bubble and especially for people that are getting that. Hum, Drumm, WordPress, I'm getting burned out or whatever.

Sometimes something like this, reaching into other pockets of open source can revitalize you a little bit and just put a new perspective on things. So I think it's just something that isn't done enough and that, I'm sure there are plenty of people that do this and go to different conferences, but just don't get trapped into one, one focus expand your mind, pretty

[01:23:58] Nathan Wrigley: incredible, isn't it? The list is yeah. Really very long indeed. And they're dotted all over the world and many of them span multiple days. You name it, this page has got it. And I'm sure it's not an exhaustive list, the, I think we've passed things like Python Laravel, Linux.

Something called CubeCon Europe. I don't know what that is. Python Conference, Python in Namibia. There's a whole load in here yeah, really interesting. And I think you're right. If you are getting a bit fatigued, then yeah, this is a great resource. I will put it into the show notes cuz the. The U r L is long enough that I won't be able to say it very easily, so I'll put it in the show notes to come out tomorrow and Bob, you another one You submitted.

Did it? Oh, this is, oh, just really

[01:24:49] Bob Dunn: quick. Yeah. Yeah. This is something I've been on for a while and the only reason I wanted to mention is I think we're all, looking at social, what should we be on, and it's not really a social platform. I compare it to a LinkedIn for creators, and it's a little, it's a, a lot of people I'm a fan of LinkedIn.

A lot of people don't like LinkedIn. That's fine. It's a very, it, there's a lot of opportunities and one of the things is, I share a lot of my content on there, but you basically create all these little tags there that shows your interests. And if you're somebody that wants to just come across people, post opportunities, basically there, Hey I'm doing this podcast, I need Yes.

Or I'm a. person that's looking to speak on podcasts, and you can subscribe to different opportunities, see what's going on. Some can be a little salesy, but it's just, it's a way to it's a different perspective. Like I said, it's not a social site where you're talking to each other, but it's a good resource to see people put up, I want to collaborate.

Some of them are sometimes lame, but other times you, something might click and you might find somebody that's, Hey, this might be worth reaching out to this person. And it's not a, constant battering, people aren't battering you. They post it. You can subscribe to it and see what opportunities are available out there.

And if so, You've been looking or wanting to get into or speaking on a podcast or maybe even being on, some conference or something. So it's a very interesting site. It's I've enjoyed it. Just going to it every once in a while. Look at what's going on and I've had several people reach out.

I've, I swear that, I get several people, I haven't, done it yet, but they reach out and say, Hey, we'd like you to be on our podcast. And I, I look at what the podcast is about. Maybe it's not quite the right fit, but, at least they're, it's an opportunity.

And some people are always saying, where's the variety of a place where I can, see what podcasts are out there and what people are looking for or whatever. Yeah. And it just might give you, Perfect fit, you

[01:27:09] Nathan Wrigley: know, so I, anyway, I struggle with LinkedIn because it always feels a bit too, how to describe it.

There's just something which I don't gel with over there. I don't remember. You'll talk about that sometime. Yeah. Oh, I'll win you over. Oh, okay. Okay. . So you tag yourself, you've created these tags yourself, or are these predefined tags and you've just selected them?

[01:27:31] Bob Dunn: Yeah, and you can just put a bunch in it, and then you can see, obviously click on that and see other people that have tagged themselves as that and you can connect with them.

So it's just a, it is a very mellow. Networking. It's more of a opportunity type of networking versus just yeah, talking to each other and guess saying what, yay for breakfast.

[01:27:54] Nathan Wrigley: I guess the proof is if it gets you, any people contacting you. And if it has done, yeah, several people have come.

Yeah. That's really interesting. So this is poll work.com

[01:28:02] Bob Dunn: And one other thing, let me just throw in one other thing is a lot of people will do, it's not just posting stuff. You can post projects, you can actually instead of just highlighting a post or something, you can say, Hey, I'm working on this.

And you could almost make a, a live feed or n a feed of. Your project progress if you wanted to share it with people. Yeah. Or I'm working on this. It's just yeah it's very interesting. I just say that a lot of people out there that build sites and into it just look at it a bit.

It's, it's easy to open up a profile and stuff and and you're going to use it however. Decide to use it, but you'll get a feel

[01:28:46] Nathan Wrigley: for it. Can I ask how your content's getting in there? Are you

[01:28:50] Bob Dunn: I just posted in there? Yeah. I just go, you actually,

[01:28:53] Nathan Wrigley: right? Yeah. You're writing it into

[01:28:54] Bob Dunn: por Yeah. And how that's really the power of it.

I'm just putting it there just to have it be in another place. I think the real power of this is the opportunities that connecting with people, looking for partnerships or whatever. Yep. There's a lot buried there that could be used for a lot of people,

[01:29:12] Nathan Wrigley: so great idea. Okay. So poly work.com. Again, I'll link to it in the show notes and you can go and check it out for yourself.

And last, but by no means least no, not last, cuz Bob's got something I've just remembered. Second to last is this. basecamp.com/shape hop. This came from Arin, but I confess Arin. I didn't even have time to to examine it, so I'm all ears. What are we looking at?

[01:29:40] Arindo Duque: There's this project management software called Basecamp.

Not sure if you guys heard about it. , it's one of the first ones that, that came out. , and they have a pretty specific way of working and they've been shipping consistently for a very long time. And they are a tiny company for the amount of customers that they have. Up to a couple of months ago, maybe year, a couple of years ago, they were like, 30, 40 people tops.

And we're talking like multi-million users here. And we've been like on, on on our company. We've been transitioning from having, we've been growing the team like a lot. So we are 11 peop, 11 people now. Ooh. And I started to see myself in a position where I was spending most of my time trying to like, make sure that projects made sense and the finding like due dates and stuff like that.

And the scope kept changing and the we missed deadlines. And it, I, I think like l last year was the year that I most, that I spent pretty much the entirety of last year working. And when I look back at the things that we actually managed the ship it doesn't like the account. It doesn't make sense, right?

The amount of things that we put out to the world, it's not compatible with the amount of work that I did last year. So I realized that the, there was something wrong in there. So we decided to try this. It's a methodology. It's a book, but it's and it's entirety on that site.

And it's totally for free, huh? Yeah. It's totally for free. Yeah. And it's very easy to understand. The methodology is pretty simple. They have a couple of key ideas that I find pretty interesting. So one of the key points of the entire method is that you have a fixed time, but variable scope. . So you define the number of weeks each cycle of development will have, so in our case it's six weeks and whatever the problem you're trying to solve, there is a version of that problem that, of a solution to that problem that you and your team can develop in those six weeks.

Interesting.

[01:32:39] Arindo Duque: So if things start like to escape you in terms of like scope creep and things like that, you start to, to cut the scope. So start to cut features out. And the idea is that by the end of the six weeks you have something, you have a version of a solution for that problem. But the idea is to focus on the consistency of shipping and having a process that makes sense and to.

That is repeatable in the long run. So we'll be trying that .

[01:33:15] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, this sounds really interesting. I think everybody gets fixated with the other way, don't they? The, you've got a, the time, hopefully you can squeeze whatever the project features ought to be into the time available and then feel terrible guilt or indeed get told off by clients because you don't manage it that way.

So I, I do the little, the transformation there of it's a time thing. Yeah. That's interesting. So this is, I have read a book by Jason Fried before and I was looking for it on my shelf, cause I know it's up there somewhere, but it's hidden somewhere. He wrote a book with somebody, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago.

I feeling it was a silver cover, but he was it was a really interesting read. He's one of those like unbelievably successful people where you read the book and you think wouldn't it be nice to be Jason Fried multiple serial success story. So this is basecamp.com/shape op. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I will add it into the show notes as well. That's brilliant. And Bob, you wanted to say something but it wasn't a url, so I've not got it on a, I've not got a site up or anything.

[01:34:27] Bud Kraus: Yeah, I'm just gonna talk this through. So I've been hired by Insta WP, a company that where you can. Create websites in an instant.

Really. It's it's really a developer, an agency dream in that it's like having local development in the cloud, if that makes any sense. It does. Anyway, so one of the videos, hired to do a series of instructional videos for their clients and one of 'em is on initially it was how do you take an elementary site and turn it into a WordPress Gutenberg site?

And I did a lot of research on it and I've had some experience doing it, and it just really it's too idiosyncratic to really do a video on this instructional video. But one of the things that came across was the idea of using elementary and Gutenberg together, leveraging the best of both systems now.

Ooh, now, yeah. I had never really thought of doing it that way, but. , because everybody always, when they do a project, they always say what should we use elementary or Gutenberg? And that's not the question. The question is how do we use both? And to leverage the both. And there's definitely a way, and here's how it goes.

So for elementary, you're gonna use the theme builder parts. So headers, footers, big sections that repeat throughout the entire site. That's just the overall framework. And then the content area, if you will be done with Gutenberg. I found that a really good theme to use for this is generate press.

Because generate press lets you do all the settings and customizer that you would do in elementary. That settings meaning. Really style, appearance kind of settings. And the, so you might say what about if I wanna use like a widget in elementary, let's say there's a carousel widget or something that you don't get with natively with Gutenberg.

Not a problem. You just create a section in el in elementary, let's say you're doing a yeah. A carousel. Yep. And then you bring it in to Gutenberg with a short code, with an elementary short code. So that's really getting the best of both worlds because you're, elementary's got a lot of performance and overhead and all that.

You're not using a lot of that, just a little bit, but you're using all the, you have access to all of its widgets. In elementary you can just insert those into the Gutenberg blocks and it's phenomenal. It's just, I'm working on, so I'm gonna do that video, but at the same time, I'm developing a new site using this technique, and it is absolutely fantastic.

There's so many really cool things about it. I'm I'm gonna really I have a feeling spend this year on this entire concept of using both because there's, it's a very rich subject and there's just, a tremendous area to explore how do use both to the best ex. One of the nice things too is that you future proof your site.

So if one day you say, elementary, Gutenberg now is so good that we really don't need to use Yeah, you just element anymore perform out or. Exactly right. You keep your theme, but now you'll take out your, you're swapping your head as a foot in the foot. Exactly.

Into into Gutenberg. So a lot of

[01:38:04] Nathan Wrigley: really good things, isn't it? Isn't it nice when you yeah. Isn't it nice when you find something that you really like oh my, quite God. Quite often I go for weeks or possibly even Monson. It's oh, I haven't quite stumbled across something that's really excellent.

And when you do find it, it's a pleasure. Yeah. And it is

[01:38:21] Bud Kraus: so cool because this is a cross project finding, in other words, you'd be using this across different kinds of projects right now. , which is fantastic, which I love. So I wish I had thought of the idea. I, yeah. But I didn't, I did it through research, but it's really cool.

[01:38:38] Nathan Wrigley: Nice.

[01:38:38] Arindo Duque: You gave me a, you gave me an interesting idea. For maybe a plugging.

[01:38:44] Bob Dunn: Huh? Now what's that? Lemme

[01:38:46] Bud Kraus: hear what you have to, no. Are you thinking of a plugin to convert elementary to Gutenberg? No.

[01:38:53] Arindo Duque: No. But maybe a pluggin you can, that allows you to configure the elementary widget writing side. The editor as if it was a native.

Ooh.

[01:39:08] Bud Kraus: So you wouldn't have to use a short code. You wouldn't have to use a short code. Excellent. Very cool. Interesting. Very cool.

[01:39:17] Nathan Wrigley: So given that you've got this new Shape Up methodology we expect it in roughly six weeks, I'd say. Yeah, I was gonna say, or else somebody

[01:39:25] Bob Dunn: else will do it.

You've better get on it now. It's out in the wild .

Yeah.

[01:39:30] Nathan Wrigley: Oh sorry. I apologize to you. The three of you, we've kept you significantly longer than was intended. And Mark West Guard founder of WS forums. Typical shows up at the last minute and expects to mention, what can I say? . Hello, mark.

That's nice of you to join us. And Bob Amy says that she tried oh, what was it called? Poly work. Yeah.

[01:39:59] Bob Dunn: Lots. And I think the point is not to go to it as a social network. Don't think of it that way. Think of it as a resource for opportunities and connecting with people. Okay. It's not a social

network.

[01:40:14] Nathan Wrigley: Appreciate all of your contributions this week. We'll put this out tomorrow. It comes out 7:00 AM UK time. What was I thinking? But it always does . It's like the most glamorous time of day when everybody's paying attention. Of course. But it'll be out then. But I'm sorry, Bob, and I'm sorry.

Arundo. Bob knows what's coming. The slightly humiliating wave that we always do at the end of the show. Basically our hands up, you know what's coming. I've seen this. We've put the hands, I've seen this. We all have to do it at the same time. And then I use this as the album up. There we go. That's about as bad as it gets.

It didn't take too long. Bob Flickered at that point is Internet Connection. Rejected it. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:40:56] Bob Dunn: I've got a little button here. Yeah's.

[01:40:59] Nathan Wrigley: Huge . Thank you to anybody that's made a comment. Really appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back next week and we'll see you then. Thank you guys. Take, thank you, Nathan.