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Welcome to the WP Builds podcast. Bringing you the latest news from the WordPress community. Welcome your host, David Waumsley, and Nathan Wrigley.
Hello there. And welcome to this episode. Number 254 of the WPE belts podcast. Entitled automatic content creation with bertha.ai. It was published on Thursday, the 11th of November, 2020. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and I'll be joined by my guests in just a few moments, but as always a tiny bit of housekeeping before we begin, if you are in the market this year for some black Friday deals we know that they're all around the corner.
Very soon. We will be deluged by emails and perhaps you are already, but if on the WordPress side of things, you want to take a break from all that and just have one place where you can go and look and search and filter. We've got loads of deals on our black Friday page it's WP Builds.com forward slash black.
I'll say that one more WP Builds.com forward slash black. And as I say, it's a searchable filterable list of the deals which we have found thus far, if you're a product owner and you'd like your deal to be on there, there is a add your deal button on that page. So go ahead, fill that in. It's completely free.
And we'll endeavor to get that on the page for you. So once more WP Builds.com forward slash. Okay on the podcast today, we have Andrew Palmer and Vito Peleg. They've got a new plugin for WordPress called bertha.ai. What does it do? It helps you to, it's using AI or in this case to be more specific GPT three, to assist you with your writing process.
So the idea here really is that if you're stuck and you're short of ideas and you would like some help with that rather than turning to a colleague or a trusted friend, or indeed just staring at a blank screen, you give Bertha or some information about what it is that you want to write about. And it gives you more text back in return.
It's really clever. I must admit that I am constantly amazed by what AI can achieve. And as we go through the podcast today, you'll be able to get a hint of some of that. So I hope you enjoy the podcast. Hello there. Welcome. Once again to the WP Builds podcast, we've got an interview for you today. Two gentlemen that I'm sure you've heard of before we have, in no particular order, we have Andrew Peleg and Vito Palmer.
Welcome guys. How are, I'll find it a poor attempt at humor. It is of course, Vito Paluch and Andrew Palmer. They're joining us today on the podcast to talk about a brand new topic, but Andrew, first of all, how are you doing mate? I'm telling you. Okay. I'm telling I've just come back from Spain from a golf trip.
And I'm recovering from that bloggers. I think I might have COVID I've got a test again. I've been clear the last three days, including yesterday, but I'm just not, if I'm not answering questions too quickly, I'm just not very well. Okay. Did I say to him everything's good. Yeah, I did say to Andrew before we recorded, should we do this another day, but he was keen to soldier on, but let's hope you get through to the end and Vito, how are you?
I'm good. Andrew brought me as reinforcement if he can't if he's lagging with his answers. Yeah. The reason that we've got you on the podcast today is because of a new WordPress plugin that you've got that you guys have got out. First of all, I would recommend that if you don't know what we're talking about, that you pause the podcast and go to the Bertha.ai website it's spelled, as you would imagine, B E R T H a dot a, I didn't even know that.ai was a as a domain name, but yeah.
Yeah. And I, I don't care who answers the questions, if both of you want to interrupt and have a bit of a bond fight, that's completely fine by me. So I'm just going to ask them and hope that one of you decides I'll take that one. And the first one is, what on earth is it? What is Bertha AI?
What's it all about? Oh, I can answer that. Okay. So birthday is is a plugin that helps you generate content within your WordPress website. The idea is to systemize and automate a lot of the thinking process when it comes to facing a blank a blank page we say in the physical world, but basically a blank webpage, when you need to generate some ideas for content and get the ball rolling.
So Bertha uses the latest AI technology to give you ideas based on just a couple of lines of texts that you can write in your own words, describing what you're trying to do. And then they're just going to give you a bunch of ideas that you can pick from and and, and edit and, just make them.
So the intention really is to cut down the time it takes for you to think of things and make a start. It's it's a, it's a bit of a way of getting rid of writer's block and get you on the way. Is that kind of summing it up? I'll even call it like a writer assistant. Okay. So a lot of things we w when we're writing copy, we outsource to VAs, or we outsource to M a, or we just do the research ourselves and spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to approach this.
What would be the right messaging as well as just the thinking process or even the unknown of what. So especially the idea came specifically when I saw this new AI technology. And I was thinking about this with implementation into Ethereum, into the platform that I have that helps a web agencies collaborate with their clients since generating content or getting clients to give you the content is always a pain in the ass.
So so the idea was like, let's just help them help the agency by leveraging AI. And then as we're starting building this week it just, it just became very apparent that it's not just for web agencies. Everyone can get a whole bunch of benefit out of a tool like that. Being there always.
And so I reached out to Andrew and we started working on it. They the curious thing is you've kind struck up a really nice friendship over the last few years. And obviously veto, you just mentioned that you've got WP feedback, which is now at a rim, of course, and Andrew Palmer, you've had elegant marketplace page builder cloud.
So you both been busy in the WordPress space, but not necessarily in anything like this, particularly content creation and certainly AI. So I'm wondering how it is that you decided to build this. What was the sort of the moment where you both looked at each other or when there might be something? I think basically I was looking at other AI solutions out there and there's a few, there, there is one word press one, but it uses a block.
And that blocked the way if you like for want of not a pun. Yeah. And the other ones are SAS solutions and you have to log in and then you got problems copying and pasting and all that kind of thing. And they're fairly, actually fairly complex with Bertha. The way that we've trained Bertha is that through building, a few, literally a few thousand websites to get, as, as two individuals, we know what kind of content that people want.
You want a USP, you want a subheading, you want a section titled blurb generator and all that kind of stuff. So what we've done for the normal user, let's say the business owner that really is in a fog and doesn't know how to create content. Let's not forget that at a rim built for customers to be able to get the content to the web developer.
So going down the content road with, I was thinking, yeah, this is a great idea because. We are all suffering as web developers and web designers from content. Now, imagine if we can get customers to use Bertha to generate the content because you can say, okay. What's my company about, and there's a little paragraph description that you can put in the, in the setting up wizards.
And then you can go in and say, okay, we'll both think of unique value propositions for me. Then I want website headings, and I wants a section title generator. I want a blog post outline. And from those things specifically, the blog post outline is really powerful because it gives you maybe five or six subject lines, which then you can put into the intro paragraph each one individually, and then that will write paragraphs for.
Section, if you like, or for, for your outline. And then you've got a conclusion paragraph as well. So that's the blog post bit sorted, but also we've got an about us creation system as well. And you can basically put your page out on that, product descriptions, title to benefit section service, product benefit list.
There's, there's a whole thing. And also if you don't like it, you also got a content rephrase there's around. So if you think, oh, I've come up with four options or 10 options or whatever it is. And I don't like those. Maybe I'll have a look at the content, rephrase her as well, and just rephrase it in a different way.
And because it's AI. Every single word is unique. It's not, it's, you're not going to suffer from plagiarism issues or anything like that. There are every paragraph that it produces is going to be unique because it thinks about it and then writes it. Okay. Okay. Nathan, do you know how the AI works?
I was going to come to that a little bit later, if that's all right. I'm going to ask for an explanation of how it all works and how what is the go between, where does it go to, just to get the tape? Yeah, yeah. It just going to stick on the sort of WordPress side of things. You mentioned that obviously it can create this text.
I'm curious to know where that's happening. Obviously at the moment, we've got a whole different array of things where you can create your content, be that Gutenberg, the block editor, or a page builder you might be using, or you might be stuck in the tiny MCE classic editor. I'm just wondering how you actually interact with this.
How does it work? What does it work with? Are there any page builders that you have created? Links to another ones that don't work. So the way we structured, it was I'm taking inspiration from Grammarly, which I'm sure you you know of. So it's kind with Grammarly, what it does, it puts this little icon on every text area that you interact with.
Got it. And that is exactly how it would work. So this way it works within Gutenberg on any type of blog. It works within a, every page builder and that where you need it, it's there. And that's the that's. I think that's the real differentiator from needing to copy paste or anything to log into different areas.
This is happening where you're writing. And I think that's what a Grammarly. Grammar collections compared to any, anything else that you would need to copy into into like SAS tools or you know, cloud-based applications or even who used to do it in word, right? You would write it and paste it back into word in a word document.
Get it assaulted in there before Grammarly. So that's what we're doing for for AI creation. We brought it to where you were. So interact with the Bertha icon, which floats within the text area that you're working in beaver and Gothenburg or BeaverBuilder or elements or whatever. There it is.
You click on it. What happens then? So let's say for example I'm just creating a blog post. My title section, so obviously in there, I want a very short piece of text, but then I'm going to click in a block and I'm going to create a couple of paragraphs. And what have you, how do I tell Bertha?
Okay, this is a title. Just give me, I don't know, 12 words or something like that, and this is a paragraph. Make it feel I dunno, energetic. Give me some sort of sales copy, make it work for me. That kind of thing. How do we actually interact with it? What's going on? What buttons do we click on?
So as soon as you click inside this text area and you have the little Bertha out icon or her face, you just tap her face. And a slide in comes in from the side, a floating sidebar that have loads of we call them like templates, right? And they're not really templates in the form of that.
They are using the same type of content, but they are structured to, to churn out a certain type of of a a structure to the content. And then you can decide out of those 20 plus options in there, which one fits what you're trying to write. And it's just going to give you four ideas for every type of thing.
Now that the idea of what you feed into it, that happens even early on. And that's another cool thing that we did that doesn't happen on the market. Eh, usually you need to input the data every time you input the description, every time that you want to write something. But because we're on the website itself, we just created, eh, this kind of like general settings or global settings area that you go through a wizard in the beginning that asks you like.
Four simple questions, like the name of the brand give us like three lines of description of what you do and what is the sentiment like you're saying, what is the tone of voice? And even the tone of voice, that could be something like a, like you're saying, it's going to be like innovative or salesy if you will.
Or it could even be like a, in the voice of Arnold Schwartzenegger, stuff like that. But Frank Sinatra's really cool crooning. So yeah. So that, so once you got that thing in, all you gotta do is just choose the template for the type of content that you want to do. And it's just going to give you ideas, as soon as you get the ideas in you click each any of them.
And it's going to write it into the area where you started from. So with you, will you, it's a. Like a cooler, eh interface that you've, you feel like birthdays writing into the text area because you see it happening in real time and you hear the clicking you know, the keyboard clicking in the background a little bit.
Eh yeah, you literally allowing the AI to write into where you want. And then from there you can edit this so you can add more stuff from other ideas and play around at that point. So let's say I'm creating my title. That's probably the easiest thing to, for us to pause at the minute, if I'm creating a title and I want it to be, let's say a sales magnet type of thing, you tell it, okay, I want this to be promotional salesy.
Do you provide me with a range of different options? So in other words, let's say here's five pick the one that you like best and go with that one and edit it as you. Yeah. And the really neat thing about that is it's not just the five titles or the four titles, but you can also generate new ideas as well and say, you saw a great title and you've continued to generate new ideas and you think, oh, actually I could use that one.
You can go back into your history tab and hit the drop down of where you were generating that content. And it will produce the history. So recent history and long-term history. So even though you've generated a few thousand characters, a few thousand. Words, you can still go back into the history. It sits, it all sits within your web page and you can reuse and, or repurpose that as well.
So it doesn't just have to be in that particular blog post or that particular page, you can go back and say you know, I wrote something similar that. What was going on in the history tab. Yeah, that's interesting. So that useful, the cost burden of this is on the moment the actual text is created.
And from that moment, there's no cost to you of creating more. If you're just looking through stuff you've already done. So you provide that in the history area and you just use that over and over again. Yeah. That's nice to know. I'm just going to read through the list. If you go to bertha.ai and scroll down, I dunno, roughly halfway, you're going to get a list of the kinds of things that it can produce.
There's a, there's four or five of these that are. Mark does premium and there's a couple of them, which are marked as coming soon. But just to give you a flavor of the different types of content that you can create, we've got options for unique value proposition, website, subheading, section, title generator, blurb generator, blog, post topic ideas, blog posts, outlined blog posts, intro paragraphs, interesting blog posts, conclusion paragraph full on blog, post writer, button call to action service product benefit list.
I am going to keep going title to benefit sections content, rephrase a product service description. I'm nearly there full on about us page, personal bio or about me. Explain it to a child. That's interesting. Persuasive bullet points, SEO tag, title, sorry, SEO, title tag, and SEO description tag. What a long laundry list.
So really you've covered all the bases. Couple of them come in soon, but all of them there and a few of them marked. Premium, but yeah, there's a few, there's a few more coming. There's like a workflow coming as well. You know, while we're developing this, we're getting lots of feedback from the people that have downloaded the free version, which you get a thousand words to a thousand words a month.
You don't, it's not just a trial, it's a total free version. You know, lots of people are suggesting things and we'll be building those, some of them in, and maybe not building others in, but effectively. Designed for website builders, our website, people who are either using a website or they've built a website.
And that's, that's a pretty cool thing. Yeah. Okay. So that's pretty the way that we structured this from the beginning, because the way that we decided on the template is literally going to the different pages of a standard website and looking at the different elements that you would find on every modern website and said, all right, I'm on the, on on the homepage, on the top area, on the Hilo section, right?
You would need to have this unique selling proposition, this one-liner, that differentiates and describes what you do. And so let's start with that then below that you usually have a little tagline, a little sentence that expands on that, a unique USP, unique selling proposition. So that's why there is this thing.
Then you have those three icons, right? That you usually have the described benefits or services. So you have a model for this and so on. So basically if you just go through the list and just click each one of the templates, as you're building the page, you're going to find that the order matches the workflow that you already have when you're building the website.
Yeah. Got it. Makes perfect sense. I am curious, obviously you've done it because you're into websites and WordPress and all that. So it's a WordPress plugin and it will try to assist you through the typical things that you need to create for a typical website. I see. Yeah. Yes. I am also curious though, as to whether or not the.
Something in the future for this where it might be something, let's say like a a browser extension, like a Chrome extension or something like that, where there are a handful of people who they create their content in, let's say Google docs and that's their preferred way of doing it. Do you have any plans like that?
Does it work because of the nature of the fact that it's a bit like Grammarly and we know that's an extension in a browser. Are there any plans for that or does it even work like that? The, the art plants to do a lousy extension in the future. I think that because Andrew and I came from the work per space, eh, this was such a natural place to start.
But as you us Nathan, for both of, from from the other products that we've created and when we're starting, we're just starting, so there's a lot more things that are coming a lot of ideas, and even more than that, a lot of useful feedback. And we're a, in discussions that are happening inside our Facebook group that in the designated Facebook for Bertha, eh, that that we take into account BR bring up in our meetings and structure the roadmap.
We, we start here, but the, really the sky's the limit. And I always think that WordPress is a good place to, to get a, to get your hands dirty if you will, because first of all, you're already covering. 50 plus percent of the market, with one go. So that's a great place to get started then then you, keep expanding to whatever a, wherever the needs you know, with the, I know that we'll get into pricing in a minute and how all of that works, but is it possible for me, let's say I'm an agency owner and I've got a 50 website clients and they are all saying we'd like a tool like this built into our website is something like that built into the product.
Is it possible for me to install this on client websites so that I can assist them via my account? Or do they have to sign up themselves? Yeah, we actually encourage that there is a plan that is designated for this, with a limited websites at the moment as we're as we're rolling this out, eh, that allows you to install this on as many websites as you like.
And we've already had a few agencies that what they did is they made this an add on to their care plan. So you want the AI assistant or problem that's 20 bucks more, or something like that. And then eh, And, you can make a whole bunch of profit out of the scope out to the unlimited package.
If you have a lot of clients that, eh, that require this service, or they want to interact with their own websites, they have like shops with a lot of products, say a LMS that needs descriptions for the courses or for the lessons. You know, people that write blog posts for themselves. So those a whole lot of use cases that happen within the WordPress space that agencies serve.
And you can definitely do that through the unlimited plan. You just have like as many websites as you want. Yeah. That's really interesting. Okay. Let's get into the let's get into the tech then. So first question is around. What's actually being used to create this. We had a tiny chat around this just before we click record, but tell us what software is being used do the magic.
When you click the button and it produces text as if. And you do want to take this, I'll take this and it's the highest level of AI that you can get currently, and they're talking about GPT four as well. And obviously when that happens, we'll upgrade. But basis of it is that GBT three was an idea by, I think is a Romanian guy.
I can't remember actually, but you financed by Elon Musk as well in the initial stages. And they effectively scanned 10% of the web up to 2019. So to to kind of educate itself around, what's been written, why it's been written, et cetera, et cetera. So that's billions of web pages since the beginning of internet time.
And what that does is it. We know with artificial intelligence is really powerful, but it's only as powerful as the instructions to it. So these guys have spent gazillions of dollars making this system work. So we just plug into it with an API. We have certain, there are certain restrictions, actually we are restricted on long form currently we're on the waitlist for long form which is, thousands of words per request.
But the basic of it basis of it is that we can literally even add Facebook posting and Twitter posting. And you know, if we want to go down the line of making images with it with AI, that is all possible with Bertha as well. So we're, we're looking at all sorts of opportunities with that, but effectively it's a, it's an open system that people can connect with.
And we're lucky enough to have been accepted on it because they, they do it by business case as well, but it's effectively, it's billions of words that have been scanned over time up to 2019. From that, the API has, or sorry the GBT three has educated itself to speak. In real words.
The, the thing about GPT three is I'm guessing that there was a GPT two. When you mentioned a GPT four, does the GP T3 a bit like WordPress five point something, it goes over a period of time. It goes to 5.6, 5.7 and suddenly it's six one day. Does GPT three evolve over time or is it fixed in, in what it can do?
And then when fall comes out, that'll be fixed or is it slowly improving it? So definitely improving yourself, go and be too. So the way that the AI technology evolved or the past decade is really interesting because it started with with really smaller pools of information, eh that could really execute on the same level as as where the technology arrived just this past year.
And it's really been a huge leap forward over the past year in terms of using these AI writing gum tools, eh, or generate those. And that's why we see some of these come, some of these. All of a sudden become a thing because the technology has caught up with the idea with the concept. And just to give you a frame of mind of what GP T3 is compared to two others that that are out there and GPT to, for example, or some of the there's some open source tools that are out there that Microsoft has their own thing.
Google are working on their own thing. So let's say that Googles and Microsoft ones are trained on a number of words that is equivalent to the size of a coin, right? GPT three is equivalent to the size of a, of an airplane, eh, compared to this. So the, the knowledge that was acquired into, eh, into this one model, Just mind-boggling if there's even research that was made in this let's say that with the current internet speed that we have, even the topic doesn't speed that we have, it would take more than 100 years to download this model, the GP T3, eh, if you would want to host it yourself, let's say so.
Like the magnitude of the knowledge that is accumulated into this one one element is huge and it's a massive, massive leap forward compared to anything else. And the cool thing about technology. And we see that in other elements as well. And I'm not gonna speculate about about the future, but looking at the past, what we've seen is that, eh, every time that there is a jump forward in it, oh, a new version.
It doesn't grow by. Like 10% more or 20% more. It grows by by, by X's, like 10 X, more 20 X, more compared to the previous version. In the upcoming few years, we're going to see these becoming more proficient at speaking than myself learning English and not as a native language.
So so really the sky's the limit with these tools and where this can go to, but even now there are so many creative ways of utilizing this technology. That it's a really amazing the thing that I'm really curious about, and I really don't understand AI, to be honest, not technically, Anecdotally what it can do, but I'm just fascinated by the fact that this software, obviously you went around the internet and scraped all the text and then it did its AI magic.
But the sort of the secret bit that I don't understand is how you can tell it to write you text about a particular subject. And it's then got the intelligence to do that without a great deal of information from you. So you provide it with a tiny bit and it gives you back an absolute boatload in a matter of seconds.
And that's the bit that I just don't understand. How has this been created? How has this knowledge been put into it? Because it's not like a human put the knowledge in it acquired the knowledge all on its own. So do you you give it prompts, basically. You say to the AI, we want you to write something around this.
And those, those are the prompts. Yo for instance, the unique sales proposition the prompt basically sells, provide a unique sales proposition around the tech supplied here. So, and that's what it does because it knows what a USP is or a unique sales proposition. And it will come up with something that is relevant to the prompt.
That's basically this is where it becomes a bit of an art, even I would say, because I was the one in charge of writing those those prompts and experimenting with these making sure that they execute on exactly what you want them to do. And it really is a bit of a, there's a bit of art to it because you have to know what you want.
Exactly. And I think that that coming from, building a, a thousand websites and working with thousands of agencies over the past few years, and, just dealing with website copy for so many years, allowed me when I was approaching this to write ask the AI in the right way.
So it would provide me with the correct. If you will. And now the cool thing in terms of how it generates the items back is that there's a lot of confusion there when it comes to you know, because people say that it scraped the internet so that you feel like it's just going to give you blocks of texts that it found somewhere else.
But really it operates more like a human brain. That is the difference between you know, traditional, coding and AI because good traditional coding is just going to search for the if and then, and just going to give you what it can find that, that qualifies on those rules, but with AI it's strings S characters together. Like we, so when I speak, and when I described this to you, even though I might've said these words before, in some way, it was never exactly the same because I string thoughts together that come out of. As character is out of my mouth to form words, to form sentences and to form ideas.
So it's not giving you full sentences, it's string one word, or even parts of words together to create the answer, to create that idea. And it rethinks itself every time that it goes to the next step, very much like a human mind would curious it's in, in philosophical terms, it borders it's stress strays into the what's.
The hard problem of consciousness. The idea that, it is clearly making things up that have never been written before based upon things that have been written before. And it's just ingenious and on some level slightly scary, we'll come to the scary bit in a minute, but for now, does he only work in English or can you a variety of languages you could select.
It already works with 20 plus languages, right? Andrew tested for 27. We need to test it on Russian as well. Eh, but most you know, Latin-based languages, it will work out of the box and all the people need to do is just write the description, the business description and the sentiment in their native language.
And that will signal to the I all right. Now speaking French, Joe. Okay. Yeah. Now I'm speaking German and it will give you the results in that in that language. And even more than that, it's, it was trained on every coding language in the world. So regardless to Bertha, just the concept of AI, because it's just really intriguing, eh, It was trained on every language in the world.
So every a coding language. Not only in theory, but there are already some tools out there that give you the ability to re, to write down build a, give me a react JS code that will execute this right. And that it will give you the structure of that react code because. How to ride that in the same way that a developer learns how to ride.
Yeah, it really is truly boggling. We could totally go off on a tangent here and spend the next four hours discussing the, you know, how this all works and what have you. But sadly time is not allowing us to do that. Do we recommend rereading what you, what Bertha creates? Let's say, for example, I've created two or three paragraphs and typically I've been very happy with what it's created.
Is it always a good idea to check this stuff through? If you notice like some clangers dropping in there, some weird vocabulary that you think actually, you know what, I'll change that word out. Is it good practice to check it, but. Yes, definitely. But sometimes you, you will notice that it creates another name for your business or something, but that's because it's, I'm trying to say, X, Y, Z blog is this, so yeah, it's always best to check your content.
You would, Beth is a writing assistance. Beth is not going to do everything for you. And when you, when you go out to a copywriter or a VA to say, okay, write this product description, they will be issues with errors or a bit of grammar or something on that. But grower is not the right one, but certainly not.
You won't get spelling mistakes and you won't get grammatical errors, but you may see some context issues around that, but only you as a human being can read it as a human being. Yeah, it's always best to check your copy just as if in fact you are writing a blog post or a Facebook ad yourself.
And this Nathan, as well as anybody that sometimes there's a typo there isn't Arabic context missing. So yeah, always check your texts. Even if you're writing itself, you've got to reread it. I've written hundreds, thousands of blog posts these days. And you know, I wish I could say that they were error free, but they weren't.
So yeah. Always check it. Yeah. I was going to ask a question about, does it get in the way and can you switch it off getting into way, but it sounds like the implementation you've got the sort of Grammarly esque thing means that unless you invoke it, it's not going to be getting in your way.
So you can basically switch the plug in. Leave it on and it'll only get in your way when you choose for it to get in the way. So that, that deals with that one you mentioned, I can't remember his Andrew or veto, but one of you mentioned that in the future, maybe even now it's possible to do alternative things.
And I was thinking about things like, would it be something that's possible now or in the future to say to a Bertha, I would like a picture of a red flower on the grass being, I don't know, with a dog in the background, a totally random picture that would be, but can it is there a future in which that's possible?
It could create things like images. It could create voice texts. You know, in a, it could literally create a podcast episode for you based upon what you initially told it to do it is that the kind of future. 100%, I would even take this even further and say, build me a business website for for you know, a dog groomer and you have it, eh, it's definitely going there.
It's not there yet, but you can see all the implementations of a AI using the same engines, to generate images. And you can, when you look at the image, you can see, like you can say give me an E create an image of a chair that has a purple background, or that is fluffy, or something like that, really in your own words. And it will try to create something that is similar to that. Eh it will look like it, it won't, it's not, it's gonna look more of a cartoon at this stage or more like a water color type of painting, if you will. It's not going to look like hyper-realistic.
Or anything and, but but it's definitely rivaling the you know, the impression is, paintings of back in the day. So that's where it is right now, but I'm sure that in a few years time, it's going to give us like hyper, hyper realism in images as well as as what, as, creating a whole bunch of stuff, everything that, that people are doing right now that that the EAs just like letting.
Is going to be automated. And I think, a lot of people, I was going to go with this, the south park meme, they took our germs. But but really what I think is going to stay is the creativity, because that is, or at least from the future that I'm seeing right now, this is still not going to be 100%.
So even if you ask it to create a website CRE adding that layer of of humanity into it is going to be something that a human will have to do or create give me sketches for. For 20 stories building, give me blueprints for 20 stories building and it can create that, but it won't create a beautiful building that humans can build.
You know what I mean? Yeah. I get it. It's just so fascinating. I'm going to ask the next set of questions and I want you to both answer them if that's all right. So what you we'll take it in turns, because I want to get your take on both of it. Firstly, Andrew, and I'll do the same question to veto.
One Andrew's finished is how good is this text that's created? The only, I confess that I've not really interacted with this a lot, but the brief things that I've interacted with when I've learned what the input was and then what the output was. It w I was like Jor on the floor. How the heck did we get here?
This is unbelievably clever, and I was just wondering what your thoughts were just how good the GP T3 model that you both are uses. I think the straight away you can just go to bertha.ai and the home page and all the pages. And pretty much all the blog posts, which they, I think there's half a dozen there where let's just say 90% written by Bertha from clues that we gave her.
And. That's it, it, literally everything on the homepage was written by Bertha. Yeah. So the output pretty good. You know, it's and I've written blog posts on my own. This is Andrew palmer.com blog with Bertha. And I've written a few blog posts for clients as well, just to show them the benefit of having both and blew their heads off.
They stay immediately signed up and said, yep, I want it. Yeah. So that's the beauty of it. It really is so easy to I'm showing a web developer. I did a little Q and a with a web developer only yesterday morning. And his head was blown off. It's just God, I can't, that's unbelievable because if you learn to use Bertha the properly Bertha the world, if you learn to love Bertha, the Bertha of will love you back.
That's the key basically. It's amazing. Yeah. Okay. And Vito, same question. Just how good. And it really, what I'm trying to ask is how impressed are you by it? W what do you, what's your actual. So it took some time for me for the prompts to give us this impressive results that we're getting now.
So when it comes to GPT three, again like, you can imagine this like a 10 year old that knows you know, like a clairvoyant, 10 years old, 10 year old, he knows everything, but he doesn't know how to express it unless you ask the right question and pull this information out of them.
And so that is really that technique that allowed that I had to play with for a couple of months, eh, after the initial research to just get it to a place where it's giving us these really, like you're saying, it's jaw-dropping and if you want to ask how good is it? It's better than you, no matter who you are in particular, no matter where you are.
So we're using this now for everything within our Telium as well. There is no reason to think all the idea. Or to, to break your head with the question of, is this a good idea? Is this not as opposed to looking at pre-created or uniquely created ideas that were generated specifically for you and saying, yes, I like this.
They gave me chills, and, and because if you think of something, you have that emotional attachment to it that you think, okay you know, my my beef smells of roses, right? Eh, but when, when you re, when you read someone else's content, when you read someone else's a text, then you're a lot more critical about it.
And so when you're just as an exercise re eh giving Bertha at the ability to create a unique selling proposition for the business that you already have. Folio podcast. Nathan, let's do one for your podcast right now. And you're gonna, it's gonna blow your mind in a second. So as you guys are going through the next question, I'm going to open this.
Oh, okay. That's a, that's an interesting experiment. Okay. So the next question there, whilst veto taps away and endeavors to get something which we'll all listen to in a minute, I will ask Andrew the following question, and we're straying into the, sort of the philosophy of this and the dystopian vision.
That might be something in the future. I'm just concerned that may be, if everybody starts doing this, we've already got an internet, which is far too, there's too much out there already for us to consume. There's endless amounts of things that we don't have time for already. And the concern that I have is that with all of this technology around the corner, we'll have people.
A matter of seconds, creating 10,000 word articles, publishing them without the desire to go back and edit them and actually make them meaningful. Literally just getting the AI to create the content as an SEO grab, basically. Okay. My website has 500,000, 10,000 word articles, and the concern would be that who's going to read this stuff and are we creating a mess for ourselves?
And just over polluting, what's already an over polluted internet. The short answer is yes, that could be possible, but the, there's other AI text generators out there and a lot of people are writing books with them. They're writing eBooks, which you can do with Bertha as well, depending on your word count limit.
And they are, it just C does seem that there's a lot of people out there writing these 10,000 word blog posts for no. Apparent reason other than to write 10,000 word blog, post, and hope that Google and others pick it up. But if you use these tools sensibly and I put those in inverted commas, you're always going to get the bad apples.
Aren't you're always going to get the people's name. Okay. I've got this and I'm paying a couple of hundred bucks a month for it. I'm going to write as much as I possibly can around this subject and hopefully get, good positions in the search engines. The reason for Bertha or existing actually is to help with visa.
And I've got the same philosophy with website builds and websites in general. He's getting content into your website is it's the most important thing. It helps developers develop faster, make more money because they can develop more websites in less time. Beth, that is similar to that, but it also helps the website owner when they stock and let's face it, copywriting can be expensive and it can also be cheap.
You if you go to Fiverr or something, you can get, someone's running a page of content for, 10 bucks or 20 bucks. But I happen to use a really good guy, Randy, who is always $300 for an article and that's the right price, because he does his research. He gets it on there. It gets all the images there.
But if you're using Bertha to write a new blog post about a new product or a new service or your business or anything that you're interested in it's a quick way to get great content. With that with little effort, basically in that's the key. We're not, I'm not really worried about the dystopian aspects of it.
I think that we've all had to learn, I've got a vehicle that drives itself, I'm lucky enough to have an electric vehicle and in the UK that's quite appropriate at the moment. Cause we've got no fuel, I turn on auto pilot and I don't have to worry about crashing into the car in front generally.
So AI and, computerized technology, people were worried about the mobile phone weren't they, when it came out and worried about You know, nest and all these and Alexa always concerned about those kinds of things. And I think you have to keep an eye on the real world and say, what do I actually need this for?
And I'm going to use it properly. And that all terms and conditions actually say that, use it properly. There's a fair use disclaimer in there and we just want people to use it in a fair and proper way. Yeah. I guess like any technology there's going to be people who abuse it and let's hope that those people who are not abusing it rise to the top.
I am interested in ready. You're ready. I've been, it took, I was ready in a few sentences after Andrew started. Eh. Yeah no, no. I think it's over to you veto. So tell us, first of all, what did you tell us? What you actually put in and under what conditions and so on, and then give us it.
Let's say. So there's some cool stuff here. So I, I wrote to the brand name, WP Builds company description. I just took the first description that you have on your website and WordPress podcast pack full of things that you either don't want to know or are clever enough to work out that we just made that right.
Eh, ideal customer, WordPress agencies and freelancers. I think that's your target audience and tone of voice. Smart. All right. I should have said like clever or something like that. Cause that's your kind of like a sentiment there, I would say. Eh, and then it gave me all kinds of variations, right? So it starts from.
Like basic ones, like we are the fastest growing WordPress podcast or the premier WordPress podcasting community the best way to learn WordPress. And then it went into some really interesting stuff like. The only WordPress podcast that takes over a week to produce
it's genius. It's about Roy as well. What else we have here? The best WP podcast. And he knew to say, w that's interesting. Yeah. A WordPress podcast, backfill of things that you either don't want it or clever enough to, he took like something that you already wrote from there. The podcast for developers who don't know.
No, they need a podcast. There's one says that it's just better. That's it? That's what it's just better. The great, oh, this one is, I think you'd like this one the greatest and least respected.
What's really fascinating is it's totally taken in I've obviously I, I've got that self-deprecating thing on the front page, I can't remember what the word is. Yeah. You either, either you already know that it's rubbish or it's no good something along those lines, but you it's figured that out and it's made that a part of it.
And I don't know if humor is an element of its capabilities, but it's, it's given us back things which were chuckling about, which is actually exactly what I would want. So . That's the response that you would want. And now you see what I mean when you write something yourself. So you're you might chuckle to yourself, but you feel that it's good.
Cause you did it. Yeah. But you don't know if it's good because you never read it as a third party, but when you're seeing it written down and you just need to choose out of this, maybe world's first podcast about WordPress is the sentiment that you want to use, which is one of the options here. But maybe the funnier ones is, what do you want to write?
The podcast for developers that don't know they need a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. It, for me, it's more that I've just, it's, it's given me things, which I actually think are quite fondly. And obviously I could just push those to one side. No, I don't want this to be funny. I want to step away from it being funny.
I want it to be deadly serious and it's given you those as well. It's really fascinating. Just based on the input. Yeah. Which was very minimal. You hardly gave it anything there. Andrew, it felt like you were. I'm just saying Nathan, sign up and get the free version. And I like 5,000 words to you.
So you won't be limited to a thousand. You can have a good old play with it. Huh? This is going to be fun. This is going to be so much sign up. I'll know you've signed up. And then I'll just add you. I'll give you some words to two words to play. Yeah, that's great. That honestly is really interesting to me.
I'm keen to see what the sort of longer form bits will look like when they come out. And obviously you described that you're waiting for that to head around the future. Here's a question. We were talking a minute ago about the fact that you can produce these 10,000 word articles. And at the minute, everybody like me, if I want to go and find something I'm in authority, my first port of call is Google.
And I'm just wondering, maybe you don't know the answer to this, but I'm wondering if Google is. Interested in filtering out the noise on the internet. In other words, I wonder if GPT three has some sort of signature in, it has some sort of some way that Google with its amazing capabilities can figure out.
Do you know what this has clearly been written by a robot we're going to down rank it, or whether that's even a thing they're searching their search team are looking at. We don't want AI only content. We want content written by humans and a content that's been thought about by an AI, but then tweaked into something better by a human.
I don't know any of that kind of stuff is going on in the AI scene, whether people are talking about this. Th there are discussions around this. I would start by saying that from the platform itself, from from a GP T3, there are guidelines that restrict you from going down this route. There are super ethical about the use of it.
Eh, and and I like that. I think that this is a smart move. I think that you guys were talking about this while I was playing around with the tool here. And, but the, so for example, you have to have in order for us to be approved if you will, eh, there has to be a step that a human interaction.
It can't be fully automated. It will, they won't allow you to be fully automated. And that is from that point of view because they don't want you to do all kinds of you like spam stuff. It has to be like a, someone, some kind of acumen interacting with it in a, in a certain way. And you have to describe exactly what, and then they decide if this is good enough for you need to add another human element to it.
For example you choose the templates, you have a bunch of ideas and out of the ideas you choose, the one that makes sense that resonates with you. So a human decision or a decision make it process is in the game. And from, from the point of view of Google, eh, I know that they are you know, I would say, maybe feel threatened this you can pay for a tool that will do this as eh, as an assistant, something that had ups you, or I remember that 15 years ago, I used to go to Upwork and, without 50 days ago it was the era in WordPress of those niche websites, rightful ad-words yeah.
AdSense AdSense. So I would go to a Upwork freelance. It was called at the time and I would pay someone $20 an article to write an article that I never read. I just posted in. So what is the real difference between the two? Yeah. And so that's, that's the way I see it in terms of, if they can recognize it, I don't see how they would because it's, doesn't take blocks.
It doesn't, it just strings ideas together like humans would. So there is really no way of differentiating this, what they can do. And like they did now with referral tags just a couple of weeks ago. Eh, they F they now require you to add, if you have a link that is sending to some kind of an affiliate link, you have to have a tag like left ad, right attached to this, so that Google knows to identify this as a promotional link and then decrease it's it's you know, SEO juice, if you will.
Yeah. Eh, so maybe that is something that will, they will require in the future, but. I just see this as the next step and as a, as an another way of automating something that people have already been automating or outsourcing, it's only that now you're not outsourcing this to a third world country or some kind of an intern you're outsourcing this to a software.
So what is the difference? The the thing which everybody wants to know I suppose, is to be found [email protected] forward slash pricing. Andrew, do you want to just talk us through the pricing model? What the tiers are and what you get for your money? I, I, I like the way we've done the pricing because it's, it's fair and let's face, it costs us when we generate the AI content for you.
The biggest thing I think is unlimited users on every pack. You when you're looking at other suppliers out, there are other people that are doing this kind of thing. You, you can pay up to $50. User you know, $30 a month, his fee is for website owner single website, 20,000 words a month.
That's pretty much enough. And obviously we offer a 14 day money back guarantee. Yeah, people don't, haven't asked for that yet. So we were all good with that. The multi-business for say, let's say a freelancer, my, one of my nephews is a great SEO guy and it's perfect for him because he can have up to three websites.
He only ever does three websites. So in a quarter to do the SEO on, so that's perfect for him. And then obviously the pro unlimited, and I'm looking at the monthly at the moment, 99 a month, again, unlimited users, unlimited websites and half a million words a month can be generated. And obviously you get priority support on that if you need it.
And again, the 14 days money back guarantee. And if you go to the yearly you'll get two months free. Basically. That's what it, that's what it works out. But you know, the key area here is the unlimited users and a on pro unlimited websites. So that's great. Agencies like you, or, want to use it on your customers, but don't forget Nathan.
We have an affiliate program as well. So if you don't want to manage the Bertha situation on websites or customers don't want it as an extra on your. Cam plan then obviously throw them in affiliate Lincoln and you'll get you know, payment every month per customer. So it's pretty cool. Nice. So just to reiterate bertha.aia.ai forward slash pricing, $30 a month gets you a single website, 20,000 words a month, $70 a month gets you three websites, $60,000 a month a day.
It really takes a big leap. So you paying an extra $29 a year up to $99 and you go from 60,000 words to 500,000 words. That's a really interesting set of pricing. $70, $99. If you just go in over your 60,000 word limit, get the $99 one, because that seems to be, and it's not per website.
It's per it's for the, it's for the, it's half a million words per month across the kind of websites that you've got. Yeah. That is a boatload of words. So when you actually think that really is. The the question is for money as the fruit blends. So if people want to play around and check this out, just come on and download it for free and you get a thousand words every single month.
Okay. That's great. I've I've done all my questions. I don't know if I've missed anything out, but that was everything I wanted to ask. Just maybe go to Andrew first and then to veto. Tell us if people want to reach out to you about this project in particular. What's the best way to do that? Oh, you can go to the Bertha AI Facebook group, such search that it's got a page as well.
And Bertha AI underscore is on Twitter or you can get me on at Arnie Palmer on Twitter. Good. And. Yeah, same thing, go to come and join our community on Facebook. And, people are sharing ideas questions, what they want to see from the product. Especially as we're rolling this out a customer feedback makes a huge difference.
So if you want to influence the tool now is the best time to do that, eh, in the Facebook group and as well as you can find me at on Twitter, on Vito Peleg thank you very much. And in the mic drop moment of the entire podcast series that I've ever produced, I'm going to tell you that none of this ever happened, we are all AI.
And on that bombshell, I'll say bye-bye Andrew Palmer. Buh-bye Vito Peleg. Thanks Nathan. See you soon. I hope you enjoyed that. Very nice chatting to Andrew and veto all about Bertha AI and how the artificial intelligence can help you in your writing process right inside of WordPress. If you've got any comments about it, please leave them on the post.
On the WP Builds.com website. You're looking for episode number 254. Alternatively WP Builds.com forward slash Facebook. If you'd like to join our Facebook group and as always, we'll post a thread on there as well. Okay. Just one more reminder. If you're into the black Friday thing, WP Builds.com forward slash black, a searchable filterable list of loads and loads of deals.
Check that out. You might be able to make use of it, and I will see you next week. Perhaps I'll see you on Monday for this week and word pressure. You never know if not, we'll be back in a week's time. I'm going to fade in some cheesy music and say, Bye-bye.