This Week in WordPress #348

[00:00:03] Nathan Wrigley: It is time for this week in WordPress, episode number 348 entitled, do Alligators Taste Like Chicken? It was recorded on Monday the 15th of September, 2025. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and today I am joined by Jess Frick, by Marcus Burnett and by Mark Zaca. It is a WordPress podcast, so we talk. All about WordPress, but we talk about a lot of other things as well.

We really do spend quite a lot of time talking about a whole host of WordPress events that are coming up in the near future. Some of them have some very different slants. Some of them are more corporate in nature. Some of them are philanthropic. Some of them are large. Some of them are small. But they all have something very nice and interesting to bring.

We also spend a lot of time talking about the new things coming into Gutenberg and WordPress core, and we also spend quite a lot of time talking about ai. As you might expect, Andro are spending 1.5 billion to make one of their legal issues go away Type Pad, which is a bit of a wordpress.com rival that's going out of existence.

And there's a whole lot more we talk about, including a massive segue into alligators. Who knows why it's all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

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Hello, hello, Lots of hellos. The audio from this thing is rubbish for the first 10 seconds, so I say hello a lot and it tends to, iron out all of those problems. It is this week in WordPress number 348. How many, years is that? Divided by 52. It's quite a few. It's definitely over six episodes.

I dunno it's five years, something like that. we're here to talk about WordPress as we always are. I'm joined by a fabulous panel. Jess Frick, just the nick of time. Just got in there. How you doing Jess? How's it going? Oh, I'm good. I'm chasing time zones, man. No kidding. We wondered if that was actually what was going on because does, is there some sort of shift at some point as yours moved and ours has moved?

Maybe. I don't know. There is and I overthought it, but thankfully my neighbor Marcus, just ran over to my house real quick and was like, Hey, how far away, Marcus? Hello? By the way, how far away are you actually in the real world? Really? about a 32nd drive, oh, okay. Yeah. Wow. Really close. Okay. Yeah.

And yet, one day, I've never seen day, one day on this show want you to leave one of you to leave and then pop off in the other house. That'd be fun. so we've got our panel. I'll go round the houses properly. I've got Mark Benza came to introduce as well, but we'll just go around the houses and say hi to everybody.

so first off, Jess Frick. up, up recent appearances, Jess Frick did not have the little moniker that she's got now. It's shiny new, shiny. It says, general Manager Rocket net. I'll read the bio and then you can tell us all about this new role because the bio says Jess is the general manager for Rocket Net.

Additionally, she's a diet, Dr. Pepper Devotee. I have no words. rescue dog at Cat Mama, and a proud member of the post status and WP Minute communities. Jess, just for you, what's going [email protected]? how did it all happen? What's, what's been going on in your life over the last few weeks?

[00:05:00] Jess Frick: Oh, man. So Ben and I have been friends for a long time. I'm friends with a number of people here at Rocket and, we've been talking about working together for a while. then he had this new partnership coming up with hosting.com Which was also announced recently. Yeah. And he has elevated to become Chief Product [email protected] and he entrusted his baby rocket.net with me.

So I am running all operations and taking care of our customers. Wow. One of my favorite things is we don't have a scope of support. We just are obsessed with our customer's experience and we go the extra mile. And so that's been interesting from an operational standpoint to work on. Okay. But yeah, I, again, I was with Pressable for so long.

I still love the product. There's so many good people, but I am thrilled to be Team Rocket all the way now. Nice. I'm really pleased. Last time you were on, you were dangling a carrot. You, could tell us that something was gonna change, but now you know. Yeah. But you, really did stick to your gun, so I applaud you for that.

[00:06:10] Nathan Wrigley: 'cause it would've been very easy to just just, oh, I'll tell you, I'll tell you a little bit, but you didn't, you stuck to spot. I'm very, pleased that it's, all working out for you over there. you can check that [email protected]. What a find that URL was, I imagine Ben bought that when it was still quite a desirable thing to have.

yeah. Yeah, he spent at least 20 bucks on it. Yeah, I was gonna say, it's definitely not one of the cheap ones. So there's Jess Freak joining us today. thank you so much. then we've got, Mark Burnett, who's down there, I guess similar story in a way. Recently, mark used to be with GoDaddy.

He was on the show many times under those auspices. Recently moved over to Bluehost and I'll read out the bio. Marcus works at Bluehost and runs a commun, WordPress community site called the WP World. You can find that at the WP world, trying his best to get Nathan in trouble with customs again.

Yeah, there's a whole story here. And it's about this, if you can, is it gonna, is it gonna, is it gonna, is it gonna, anyway, that box there says, unleash the WaPo. It's a little card box. You can see that cards fit into it. There's absolutely loads of them. Here's what they look like. and this is Marcus's card game.

Now, honestly, Marcus has done such a terrific job. they are totally like really professionally legit cards. Each of them containing either a WaPo or something adjacent to a WaPo. But the little hidden benefit that nobody knew about is that if you walk through a radar machine, an airport with a pack of these, they don't like it, and it sets off all the alarms.

So I got pulled over because it's too long. Just customs for some reason because no one who flew in the U in inside the US had any issues. Just me. it was the fact that it was oversized. They said that's not a regular pack of cards. So it looked really suspicious. Anyway, you did Nathan LED's a conversation with the, with the people.

what is that? What are these? And anyway, I tried to explain, but they, sadly Marcus, I wasn't able to sell any for you to the, the people at customs. They, any of it. That's alright. Where can we get the card game, Marcus, if we're interested? Unleash the wapo.com. And I do have a few actually that, some are going out today to people who have already purchased.

[00:08:32] Marcus Burnette: Nice. And, I do have a few extras for people that might be interested. So just give us a little elevator pitch. What is, the purpose of the game and gameplay and things like that? How does it work? Sure. it's a game for. Two to six players, get together, enjoy the nerdiness of WaPo and the WordPress community.

And, you only need one deck to play. You can sit down if anybody has a deck and play. And the purpose is to collect all the WaPo that you can in the space in front of you aptly named the dashboard. Nice. and whoever gets to a certain amount first wins. you can, you can definitely play it easily 'cause all of the rules can be contained on just this one little card.

[00:09:16] Nathan Wrigley: You get multiple of these little cards, you'd be able to figure it out. So if you go to Unleash the Wack or Google Unleash the WaPo or go to the URL that Marcus just said, you too can be the proud owner of one of these. And, just put it in a little, what's it called? Faraday Cage as you go through the, the costumes there.

So thank you for joining us, Marcus. Appreciate it. And then last, but my name is Lisa over there, mark Zaca. Hello, mark. Hello. How you doing? I'm good. How are you? Yeah. Good. Good. Mark. oh, I've just refreshed Mark's written a bio, so that's quite good. A minute ago I didn't see it. I did write a bio. I'll read it out.

Here it goes. Mark Zaca is the marketing lead and partnerships manager at Main wp, which basically means he convinces plugin developers to play in the same sandbox as main WP and somehow makes newsletters interesting to read His career path. Looks like a choose your own adventure book. One that includes importing coffee without a distributor.

that's interesting. Launching an ISP without knowing what DNS was. Oh, that's really interesting. And surviving the early internet with only a fax machine and raw optimism. We had a whole conversation before we hit record about fax machines, but I won't bore you with that these days. In his spare time, he's been working on a new podcast called Failure in which he and a guest talk about past failures.

Its focus is to show others that they're not alone. First episode, dropping this week stage tuned. That's a nice idea. I like that. This week coming out. Yeah. And, there is a person here on the panel who actually I got to interview and Nice. Okay. Where do we, yeah. Is that Jess waving? Where do we, where do we find this?

Have you got the site and domain all sort? I, have a domain. I have no sight sorted. this whole idea really came up. It was a almost, I don't wanna say it was an afterthought, but it was definitely something that came up on the cuff. I was talking to someone here at the Cowork and they said, what kind of podcasts, do you think need to be out there?

[00:11:21] Marc Benzakein: and I wasn't, I didn't even think about it. I just said, I'm really tired of all the success podcasts. They all say the same thing. And it's not, that the information is bad, it's just there needs to be a failure podcast. And she says, I would totally listen to that. And I said, And Why not? And I have, about, I think I have eight of them in the can now. Oh, nice. That I'm trying to, yeah. and, with more people, scheduled. And what I'm looking for right now is someone to edit the videos, because that's the thing. It's doing the interviews, it takes about an hour.

it's not, it's, but, then there's the, okay, how do we make it look pretty? And then me making something look pretty, I, can barely make myself look pretty, let alone anything else. can I make recommendation to you, invest some time into a tool called Descrip? Yeah, you've talked to me about that.

[00:12:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. It's definitely worth it. and if you get into some of the AI bits, whilst it won't do it, won't publish it for you, you can tell it to edit the video and the AI will take a stab at it. And then in the editing interface, you can tweak it if you're not happy. Oh. with how it goes. And, yeah. So have a look at that also in a, and it'll be distributed on YouTube to start with, but then it'll go beyond all that if it turns into something, major, I, now, I've never promoted this on this podcast, but I'm gonna do a bit of self-promotion for a tool.

Okay. that I have been working on with a very nice chap, very friendly guy called Dan. Maybe he's the clever one. I'm the guy that just talks about it. and it's this thing, lemme just put it on the screen and it might be interesting to you because you are just starting a podcast. It's called Podcast.

Ah, okay. And it's a, it's a WordPress plugin that allows you to, let's say for example, you've got an RSS feed, so in your case it might be YouTube or something like that. It will suck it in to your WordPress website. And if you, I dunno, tell it whenever a new episode drops, it will create a, post draft it or make it live.

But the cool bit, the best bit is we've built a, player, which you build up using blocks. So instead of it being that kind of typical rectangle, which you copy an iframe out of, you build all of the component parts, however the heck you want. So the play button is a block and the fast forward button is a block, and the featured image is a block, and the description is a block.

And you, build them in a, in an interface, save it and say, I want it to look like that. And you can really make it whatever the heck you like. So go check. cool podcaster plus.com. So there you go. Question for you, Nathan. So where does the file go? The file is hosted on your hosting service.

So let's, so in the same way that you have a website, rocket.net, bluehost, whatever, and you've got a hosting over there, typically a podcaster will pay for, not just typically, almost, I would say 99.99% of podcasters will pay a subscription fee to a hosting company. But the hosting company is specific to podcasts, and what they do is when you upload an episode, that's basically what you do is you go in, you say create new episode, you give it the audio file, and you write a description and you write, the title and what have you.

And then it'll produce an RSS feed, and we consume the Rs, excuse me, we consume the RSS feed, so it's hosted elsewhere. Typically, if that makes sense. Did I explain that very well? yeah. No, I get it. Yeah. Cool. so yeah, so it's, it's a fun little thing. We're gonna probably start launching it maybe next week, maybe the week after.

it's basically finished, and ready to go. And it's at podcast the plus.com. Anyway, less of that. let's just do a quick run through of a few bits and pieces. First bits of housekeeping, if you don't mind, just to get everybody figured out what's going on. If you, wanna join us or rather, if you want, obviously if you're joining us already, you've found your way here, but if you wanna direct your friends, colleagues, relations or whatever, send them here.

WP builds.com/live. There'll be a video embedded in there. You can watch it there. And if you wanna use the comments on the right, that's YouTube. So you'll need to be logged into a Google account. And then if you don't wanna use YouTube comments, then click the little button top right of the video player.

It's a little black button, I think it is. It says chat or something like that. And then you don't need to be logged into anything. And yeah, please just send people there and then when your comments come through, we will put them on the screen. Little bit like this one from Courtney. Hi Courtney. happy Monday, says Courtney.

She's she's in your neck of the woods, I think, isn't she? She's not Florida, but she's on the Eastern seaboard. I think I could be wrong about that. Pictionary says hello. tacho that on shop. I was in New, I was in South Shields UK less than 24 hours ago. Oh, you were wise to. To leave, tacho. I don't know much about South Shields and I think I'll leave it at that.

but I'm joining you from, I dunno how to say that difficult word now. Anybody wanna have a stab at that word? I'd go wi, I'm gonna say yeah. Yeah. In some Dutch word there. And oh my God, that title looks so good on you, Jess. Woo-hoo. That's nice. Patricia's joining us, from Europe somewhere.

Probably Germany, I'm imagining, and Tao's back. Nathan isn't wrong. The podcaster player is really nice to work with. Thank you Tao. He was one of our beta testers and gave us some nice feedback, which was great. RSS who invented that? Dave Weiner invented that. And I chatted to Dave Weiner this week, which was fun.

I, got really nervous. I got really stage fright, which I never get. I got really panicked, like I had to calm myself down. 'cause to me, talking to somebody like Dave Weer is a bit like regular people talking to an A-list movie star. And I got a bit freaked out. luckily he was a very kind and considerate chap, so that was nice.

hello Elliot. B stairs, Tammy Lister's joining us as well, which is nice. And, very windy here in the uk, says Tammy. There you go. That's all of the bits and pieces out the way. okay. Okay. Okay. Let me get those off the screen if I can. I actually can't. Oh yeah. 'cause it's a caption, not that. There we go.

That's gone now. Let's put the bits and pieces up that we're doing this week. Bit more self-promotion, I'm afraid. firstly, this is us wp builds.com. These are podcast episodes. You can find 'em in this archive just here this week. A chat to AMEA Helter from WPML. WPML translates your WordPress website into multiple languages and they've gone all ai, as you might expect, I think ai, I dunno what the panel think about this.

AI has in my life not really made that much of an impact. It seems to be making everybody else's life really exciting. Tammy's going to kill me 'cause she's desperate to make me like the AI apostle, but I'm not becoming it particularly quickly. But it really, I really think that translating stuff. Is a completely credible use of ai.

'cause it's pretty functional, isn't it? It's not. It's not really trying to create anything new. It's just trying to take one thing from one language to another. And in the past, plugins like WPML, really, it was moderately expensive to do 'cause you had to get human beings involved at every step. You wanted to go from German to Japanese.

You basically needed a human to do that. And now AI will do all, I think they go do something like 50 or 60 languages. It'll do them all in five seconds. So if you've got a blog post and you want it translating all over the place, it'll do that. So he is on the podcast to talk to us. Did you.

[00:18:47] Marcus Burnette: Did you see the, Apple announcement with the AirPods? I'm really excited to try that out. Apple's new AirPods will do. Okay. Live translation. So someone speaks their language into your AirPods and it will translate into your language in your ears, blocking them out. Baby fish, haven't they? And then same the other way.

Or if you speak, it'll translate onto your phone so you can show them if they don't have AirPods, what you were saying. that is really excited to see that in action. Yeah. can I ask a question about that? 'cause that's really exciting. Firstly, how does that differ from what Google's been doing?

[00:19:24] Nathan Wrigley: Obviously maybe not inside of a, an earpiece, but is the technology bound in the headphones so it's not You probably do need an iPhone, I'm imagining to make the connection and what have you, but it doesn't, yeah, it uses apple's in Yeah. Series Apple intelligence or whatever for the, it's, I don't think it's a whole lot different than what Google's been doing.

Apple will market actually up in an ly beautiful way. No doubt. And the other question I have, and I don't know if you've got an answer to this, is does it have that pre pregnant pause or does it translate it in real time? so as the person is saying the word, does it basically come out at the speed at which they're speaking?

[00:20:00] Marcus Burnette: Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm excited to see how it works. Yeah. And, if it is, yeah, I don't wanna stand there for 10 seconds waiting for it to translate and then continue the conversation. So you'd imagine it'd have to be fairly snappy, but yeah. Curious, can you imagine if they pull that off? Can you imagine how profoundly different the world will be if they actually pull that off?

[00:20:21] Nathan Wrigley: I, know it just sounds like a clever gimmick, right when you say it, but imagine you could get off a plane almost anywhere on planet Earth. And you could potentially communicate in a mix of languages, not even just one. Any language that's around, should filter in and be in, in something that you understand in your ears.

[00:20:40] Marcus Burnette: Yeah. Wow. That's true. Okay, so the an, the answer is I didn't see that. but that's, really exciting. And the fact that it's in that teeny tiny, small form factor, which kind of gets out the way and doesn't look weird Is pretty incredible. Yeah. That's amazing. anyway, WPML will endeavor to do that with your WordPress website, so that's where they push their endeavor.

[00:21:01] Nathan Wrigley: So we've got an episode about that. So go and have a look at that. And then more recently added an episode with Bigot and Anne McCarthy, all about the bits and pieces happening in WordPress core. I just draw your attention to this as well. I did released an episode, we do these episodes probably every. I don't know, a month or two, two months, something like that with Joe Dolson, who's one of the core committers on the accessibility team.

And we go through a branch of websites and try to pick out one thing, like one aspect of a bunch of websites. And this time around we were doing, keyboard navigation and how the, websites cope with that. And, yeah, it wasn't great. But there was one winner, which was the sort of Harvard Gazette, which was pretty amazing.

So it was nice to see an example of a and a site executed really well. So you can check that as well. Go to this archive here, you'll be able to find it. And I think that's it basically. Then we're onto the bits and pieces that our panelists have bought, and I can't remember which one of you wanted me to mention this.

I think it might have been Marcus. I think I tossed it in there. Yep. Yeah. Do you wanna go for it? Tell us what you, tell us what you're thinking here. yeah, I just tossed it in here. I'm not, unfortunately, I'm not gonna be able to be there, but I am a media partner for Luon. The WP World is somewhere at the bottom there.

[00:22:17] Marcus Burnette: been tasked with helping get the word out. yeah. The WP World is down there. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's in 10 days I believe, and it's in. You are part of the country. And, just getting the word out that the schedule and speakers and all that stuff are on the site. Go get your tickets so you can, join up.

[00:22:37] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, there is a, there is, so a couple of things I would add to this. The first one is that if you are coming and there's quite a few people that are, It collides perfectly with the WPL event, W-P-L-D-N event, which I co-organized with the guy who's working with me on the podcast, the plus plugin.

So that's Dan, maybe. so if you are in London the night before, so the 24th, which is a Wednesday, we'll do our regular W-P-L-D-N meet up, two speakers. Tammy Lister is actually one of them, who's in the chat. And Mike Demo is the other one. So it's the, turn up at six o'clock, two presentations.

Then we pack up and go to the pub for a bit, and then you'd be able to, wake up bright and early in the morning with no hangover at all, and, and head to straight to Luko, and they're all within a short walking distance of each other. So it's a real nice one, two hit. So it's happening 24th.

It's W-P-L-D-N. Actually, I should probably put the page up, shouldn't I? W-P-L-D-N is the 24th, so let me just quickly see if I can find that. There we go. wpdn.uk is the address that Ooh and, that's the 24th involving Tammy and Mike demo. And as you can see here, if you fancy getting 50% off your loop comp ticket, you can use the code, W-P-L-D-N, and you'll be able to apply that and get 50% off the ticket price.

So I also saw on the socials that Brian, who is organizing Luko, he was making, he was making the tickets available. I don't know exactly at what price, but he was making the point that if, price is the problem to getting you to attend, get in touch with him and he'll try and work something out. So there may be a deal to be done if you think you might be able to make it.

So there we go. There was Loop Conf the first one you can see. Yeah, I, yeah. I also have. Information that Brian and his lovely wife Katie will both be there. And I don't know that I've ever seen both of them in the same place at the same time. So that might be worth the ticket price. All on it own. yeah.

It's Central London. It's eight, speakers that you can see right here. Won't go into all of those, but yeah, one day and then an after party afterwards as well. So join them, join us, and there we go. Loop conf.com. And then this one, Marcus, you brought to our attention as well. Do you wanna mention this one?

[00:25:11] Marcus Burnette: Sure. similarly, I added this one. Tickets. Tickets, are on sale. Go get your tickets now. I'm actually helping organize, press Con for Nice 2026. It's in April. but the early bird, we're calling them startup, tickets. The early bird price is good through the end of this month, so I wanted to make sure that people are aware of that and to go get your tickets now.

press Con happened for the first time last year, as a sort of spiritual successor to press Dominics, which happened for I believe eight, eight or nine years. and, it's fantastic. Everyone who went last year asked just about anybody who went. They would, they would guarantee that you'll have the, time of your life.

You can get to see some, it's a one track conference. so everyone's in the same room. Even the sponsors and everybody, we're all gathered in the same room, very intimate talks. Nothing is recorded. everyone who speaks can be very, open and candid about their, talks, knowing that, it all just stays in the room.

so you get some very different talks than what you would at most other events. so anyways, yep. Tickets are on sale now. And, Encouraging people to go get them before the early bird Price is up at the end of this month. it's April the eighth to the 11th, 2026. It's in Tempe. I think you pronounce it like that.

[00:26:47] Nathan Wrigley: Tempe, Arizona. so yeah, press Conf events is the URL for that press comp events. I'll put a link in the show notes. Okey doke. Unless Jess or Mark have anything to say about those, we'll move on. Yeah, I just wanna say that I agree. Press comp is phenomenal. I hate that it's at the same time as Word Camp Asia.

[00:27:11] Jess Frick: I know Press Comp announced their dates first, and then Word Camp Asia came out. So I, they were both trying to avoid one another, but things happen. but yeah, it's, a phenomenal event. Sorry. Sorry. I love that you're organizing Marcus. Oh, yep, me too. It be interesting to see if there's a, if there's a, if there's a precipitous drop on the word Camp Asia ticket sales, especially from your part of the world, the USA 'cause I'm imagining given a choice Press camp isn't that big.

[00:27:47] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Yeah, it's hundred I think something like that. It's about, yeah, it's gonna be about 200, so it's not gonna take a significant chunk away from, word Camp Asia. But, yeah, it's fantastic conference. it's a lot of decision makers, a lot of corporate decision makers that are gonna be there.

[00:28:07] Marcus Burnette: the demographic is different at Press conf than what would be at Word Camp Asia. so yeah, I, Fully, convinced that it's worth going to. And there are lots of other considerations. travel, price and Yeah. Yep. Location, safety and all of that when it comes to traveling to Word Camp Asia and all of that.

So they're just different events and yeah, people will. Choose where they can be. So are we gonna talk about traveling to Tempe in April versus August? Oh, it's gonna be beautiful in April. That's all I'll say. Yeah. I'm just wondering. or just to give some context of that or, the next iteration of Word Camp US is, it?

[00:28:52] Nathan Wrigley: No, it's not Tempe. It's Phoenix, isn't it? Yeah. they're neighboring cities. A similar, a similar environment. Yeah. this one's in April and by that point I imagine the temperature is just climbing up and it's actually probably really nice. Whereas in August, my understanding is that it's fairly brutal.

By the time you get to August, it's pretty like. I in degrees Centigrade, you're into the forties or something like that. But it's a dry but it's a dry heat, so Okay. That's something, that's what people say. Yeah. Yeah. still very hot. but, okay, so we'll come to loads more events in a minute, but there's at least two for you.

three actually. W-P-L-D-N, Luko and press conf. Check those all out. Let's get to the word pressy bits. Actually, just before we do that, I'll just go to a few of the comments. 'cause we've got a few here. Tammy saying she gave up on me for a bit. She'll convince me eventually. I think you will, I think it will convince me, but I'm, I think AI and translations are a particularly like sweet spot.

I don't think I've got any reservations about that. and Tammy also says yes, and that's also a safety thing for those traveling. I presume she's talking about, word camp. Sorry. I think that was about the AirPods, the air pods. Oh, okay. Yeah. Being able to understand what's going on around you.

You're not standing there with your translator book. Yeah. So translations says Tacho work really well if the a has enough understanding of the context, otherwise you get really bad translation mistakes. You might Oh, that's interesting. I imagine as with Alltech, this will only get better. It will never get worse.

And so if the entry from Apple is all right, then I imagine it'll just get better than All right. Each time, however. peach Mary says, yeah, but you still need a hu a human to check the translation. The things that come out can be hilarious. Good point. yeah, AMEA wasn't trying on the podcast that we recorded.

He wasn't trying to make the point that it's just set it and forget it. I think a human has to be in the loop there, doesn't it? yeah, that's a good point. Hilarious is also a best case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. And also it call out very bad, just brings up your competitors or what have you. there's also, there has to be a delay.

So this is the AirPods. There has to be a delay because of the order of the words in sentences is different between languages. That's a good point. Yeah. I wonder when, can you imagine how fiendishly complicated this puzzle is to unpick, like figuring out, okay. I'm pretty sure they've got to the end of that bit.

Okay. Translate, go. Yeah. That must be a heck of a lot of engineering. And Patricia says about the card game. I got one, I got once got pulled at the airport security for a stack of business cards. Same as the game. It creates a block. That can be suspicious, could be a box with something inside. Yeah. They just didn't like the fact that there were all these parallel lines.

I think they thought it looked like electric circuits or something like that. So that was interesting. tacho says I royally and then he put underscores hate WordCamp Asia and press cons. Having conflicting dates. I don't want to miss either one. Yeah, unfortunately. The, the d has been cast this year, but, oh, do you know what Marcus Burnett, if only there was a website that we could go to where somebody listed out a whole ton of events, so that we could see when things were happening.

If you could just, oh wait, it's called the wp do you go that far into the future? Do people at this point yet reach out to you with prospective dates? Do you do any of that kind of stuff? a couple. I have a couple that are just a month and year and not for. Full dates, but, yeah, I've of any event that I have some semblance of information for, that people are okay with me posting, I'll add, some people just wanna put things on my radar and are not ready to announce it yet.

[00:32:44] Marcus Burnette: I'm not gonna pull, put information out there that organizers don't want me to have out there just yet. But otherwise, do you know what though? It would be a nice, it would be a nice, and I'm not asking you to build this, but it would be good. Done. I'll do it. A good thing to have a place where you could put prospective dates.

[00:33:02] Nathan Wrigley: So in this case, obviously that could have been avoided, but it wasn't, 'cause presumably neither of the parties knew what the other ones were thinking. And then by the time it was announced, they'd all, everything would be booked up, the accommodation sorted and all that kinda stuff. It would be a place, it would be good if there was a place where you could just list out here's the 12 dates that we might do, or the three dates that we might do or whatever.

And then people could go and like those kind of collision things that you have on calendars to make sure that the three people involved didn't, didn't, conflict with one another. Tcho says he is gonna stop spamming us now. No, keep going. Tcho. It's wonderful. I love it.

and then more comments about what have you. and then Tammy out of nowhere lost my nail clippers at New York Airport this time. Oh damn. I have no words. Dangerous. Yeah, that is dangerous. Yeah. do you mean lost as in they took them off you or lost as in you literally lost them right up to this then.

Let's put this on the screen. What's new for developers? This is, Ryan Welcher back to WordPress stuff. Now, what's new for developers? This is an article which comes out typically once a month, something like that. As you can see from the table of contents, there's absolutely loads in here. I'm just gonna touch on a couple of things.

and then you really, you can go and have a look yourself 'cause it goes a little bit in the weeds a little bit later. But there's a couple of highlight items I want to mention. Firstly, WordPress gets an accordion block. Not exactly brand new, but there we are. You now get the option to add an accordion.

It comes with four sort of subsets. You've got an accordion item, an accordion header, and an accordion panel. All, basically all the bits that you need in a, in an accordion given their own block. So that's quite nice. you can also style input elements, so form elements with theme json. A bit nerdy and technical perhaps for this one.

Data views has received some updates as well, which we'll touch on in a moment. And then, there's a few bits surrounding AI and playground as well. I'd encourage you to go and read that, jump in off a bit from there. We got this, what's new in Gutenberg piece, 21.6. And you can see that the accordion thing is mentioned.

Again, there's a little video of how it works. Basically, all your accordion needs are now taken care of inside of the core block editor, which is quite nice. If you've been using data views, and especially their grid interface, you now have a few more options. You can basically just get rid of a few things.

So for example, titles can be hidden and you can now, interact with the different panels in the grid by hovering over them. So you now no longer have to click inside and open multiple menus, which is nice. Here's the bit that we were talking about. Select dropdown and text inputs are now, supported with global styles.

So for example, you could tell, I don't know your website, I want to have a white border with a background, a border radius of three pixels, which is white on all form elements. You can do that now via theme JSON and a few other bits. I don't know if any of that excites any of you, but I thought I'd mention.

If it doesn't, I will just move on. If you've got anything to add, I'll pause for a second and you can hop in. I'm actually excited about the accordion thing just because I know I, I dealt with it over the weekend and it just, I just couldn't get it right. I, just, I hardly ever do website development, but when I do, I have to remember how to do things because it's, and, it's like I'm sitting here fighting with what I think should be the most basic thing, and I, hopefully this will resolve that, but I finally got it working.

[00:36:33] Marc Benzakein: But it's curious that in the old world of things like page builders or a plugin, which would've done accordions for you, you basically had one little panel and you would set everything up in there. Now that everything's been atomized as a block, I actually think, although in the end it's better, I think it's quite counterintuitive that, you have to.

[00:36:54] Nathan Wrigley: Like you've got this parent container, then you've got a block, which, and then inside of that you've got the content which fits in the according, and it's not necessarily obvious if you're not familiar with an opening up the inspector on the left hand side and clicking on the different bits and pieces.

It's not always that straightforward. it took me far longer than it should have. Yeah. But what happens if you put a, an accordion container outside of the accordion? Does it? I don't know. Does the block kind of good? You put it where you want this Exactly. The sort of thing which somebody's gonna do right away though, isn't it?

let's test and find out. Let's see if that's possible. I bet Tammy in the comments can figure it out. I was thinking if you put an accordion within an accordion and then did another accordion, how does that Oh yeah. Accordion's all the way down. Accordion inception. Yeah. Basically. I don't know what would happen, but I imagine something would go wrong because I'm guessing that it's dependent upon that, that correct sound.

[00:37:48] Marc Benzakein: you'd spend the next four hours trying to figure out which block you need to do. Yeah. Yeah. That's, what will happen. Yeah. Yeah, And so that would be curious. You, I'm sure, Marcus, as you've said, it would be trivially easy to drag out child accordion blocks from their parent container, but in a way you'd want to protect that, wouldn't you?

[00:38:08] Nathan Wrigley: You'd wanna have a UI where That were not possible. Yeah. Where you couldn't do that. but I bet you can. but yeah, Tammy says you kill s if you do that. Okay. Each time you do that, one of these cards, no. On the fire. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. I don't know, but I, think, Marcus, you're absolutely right.

It will definitely be possible. So there we go. anybody else wanna talk about those couple of things? If not, we'll just move on. Alrighty, moving on. It is, this is only gonna matter for a very small subset of you people, Tammy, probably being one of them. two factor authentication is gonna be required for people with very important capabilities, on the on make forward slash core.

So basically, if you have the capacity to up date core, then you are as of the six 16th of September, 2025, you are going to have to, You're gonna have to get two fa set up. Let's pray. You already did that. And you know what this all means? If you don't what two FA is and you have core commit access, then I think call is lost.

but you are going to be forced to do it. 'cause if you don't, you are gonna be, you're gonna be downgraded to having the contributor role and you'll suddenly log in and, nothing will be possible. So anyway, there you go. It's a step in the right direction, in terms of making sure that everything is locked down, just as you would expect.

I'm surprised that wasn't done earlier. In all honesty. I imagine most of the people have already done that, but, okay. Shall I move on or are you happy? Happy there? Moving on then. Okay, so we've got a ton of, event stuff coming up. So we've already mentioned several, but here's a few more, from the makers.

I believe this is true. I'm, I think I'm right in saying this from the w they loop con folk. so Brian, from WP Sessions, they have announced the dates of sesh. This is a two day event. It looks like I, for some reason, I always thought it was a one day event, but I'm probably wrong. it's happening on October the 14th to the 15th.

So what's that about a month from today? It's virtual. And, yeah, you can basically go and get yourself signed up at the moment. Two days, 2 22 speakers, 17 sessions, infinite fun, and you two could save yourself. 799. Arbitrary amount of money. Just put in there. Seven $99. no. It's free. and obviously, you can get from the name.

I'm sure that it's, for those of you that are really into Woo, you're just using WordPress with no e-commerce. It'll probably be a curiosity, but maybe not up your street. But, woo. I've heard they have some really phenomenal speakers this year. Oh God. Let's, scroll down. I'm gonna take the bait.

Let's see you there. Okay, here we go. Oh, look, at that. There's Courtney Robertson. She's in the cots. That's nice. Yeah. let's keep going. Let's keep going.

Pretty similar to Marcus as he is right now. Same sort of length, beard. Same. Is it the same cap? Are you wearing the same Yep. Different angle. Yeah, pretty much. so yeah, the great and the good. Look, we can see them all there. So loads and loads of people. Do you know what yours is about? Oh, they got your, they got your moniker wrong there.

Look, they've got you still working. Yeah, these are. I think these are past I've, Yeah, I think there's are past speakers. Okay, good. I, because you didn't know you were doing it in October. I wait a minute. yeah. I've spoken a couple times before at esh, but I don't believe that. check your,

that's okay. Great. Yeah. in which case, I guess that website needs updating. But anyway, here we go. Look, here's the Sam. Is the actual, no. So yeah. Yeah, this is, last year's definitely needs a bit of an update. So they've obviously just launched it into the wild and got a few bits and pieces to take care of.

But if you're into it, May, maybe this year it'll be $799 maybe. Maybe it'll, actually cost loads of you. Better sign up. Yeah, better sign up. anyway, there it is. So it's available. You can go and check it out. Okay. And then moving on, let's go to, I'm just gonna move things out of order a little bit.

Let's put that one first. This one came across my radar, I think it was in dda. So DDA does a really nice newsletter which drops every Monday. It's called, the WP Weekly. You perhaps receive it already. And he's got a section where he talks about, events and things like that. And this was one that I'd not heard of.

So this is coming up in more or less exactly a month. I have translated this using Google Translate, so apologies if the language is not what was intended, but, it's called WP Agency Forum. You can, the URL is exactly that, wp agency forum.com. And it says, WP Agency Forum is an event created for web development agencies and professionals who offer WordPress based services and seek to grow in a structured, profitable way with a long-term vision.

Like an agency basically. and then if you click here, you can buy your tickets. Looks like this one is, if you go for the online entry, you don't have to pay anything. But if you wanna actually attend, I'm guessing it's in person. I'm not sure. it says in person, but I don't know what the, what that means in terms of dates and things or timings.

But that's gonna be, 100 euros. So you can check that out. There's the speaker list. Just quickly scroll through it. Marcus Burnett is not on that one. mark Benza again disappeared, but he is back now. That's good. Hello Mark. I dunno what happened there. yeah. Yeah, he's sigh of relief mops his brow.

you can go and check this one out. Okie dokey. Anything on that one? Anybody? Probably not. I missed all of it, so No, don't worry. It's a new event. I think it's amazing. I think it's, yeah, it's so good. It's amazing. Absolutely. Good. yeah, you are on the speaker list, mark. I dunno if you knew, but, right down at the bottom there, you Oh, I bet.

I guess I better check my, you're not doing the keynote. you've got seven hours as well on stage. It's pretty impressive. Really glad to, wow. I'm ex and I'm so excited about it. And I'm learning Spanish. Yeah. I'm learning Spanish. Just to be able to do it and really to pivot so beautifully into talking about WordPress and knitting, like that is brilliant.

I'm really looking forward to, that whole thing. No, crocheting, crochet. Crochet. Sorry. Okay. Here's a difference. Sorry. I've obviously trodden on her. Yeah, it's a sensitive talk. It's a sensitive thing. and here we go. Here's another one. this is really interesting. I wonder if this pattern will continue.

Maybe this has been done before, but I've not heard of it. We're on the repository by Ray Moray. Go and check everything out that she does. She's a brilliant contributor to the WordPress news space. In fact, I'd go as far as to say she is the contributor in the WordPress news space. She's just brilliant.

she's written an article all about, word Camp, and I cannot get this word out of my mouth. G gya, I'm gonna go for that gya. It's in Poland, and they've taken the really interesting decision to, not only do, the conference in Polish, which you'd expect given it's in Poland, but also to offer the presentation or some proportion of in English as well.

And it says here when the conference kicks off on the 26th or 28th at September in the seaside town of Gya. Or city Sessions will run in both English and Polish, a deliberate move to open the event to international speakers, attendees, and sponsors. So I dunno if that's like half of them are gonna be in English or what have you, but it's match check, palki, who's been on the show several times and they just want it to, he says the shift has been about breaking out of what he calls Poland's comfortable bubble with three word camps now running annually in the country.

He said the same speakers and sponsors were starting to circulate from city to city. The only way we can make the pool bigger is either to make the event wider or add another language. Have you ever heard of this? Panelists? You ever heard of an event doing like a multilingual thing like that?

It's everyone I've ever been to has always just been English 'cause of the nature of where I've been, but. Yeah, I, have not actually, I think that's pretty interesting. most of the camps, here obviously in English, but in, Spain and, other regions, they generally just do in their native language.

[00:46:52] Marcus Burnette: so this is interesting that they've, and the reasoning makes sense, right? They have a pretty good turnout, but they seem to get a lot of the same speakers and same attendees because they've I don't know, I guess boxed themselves into the region. And so this is their way of, figuring out how to broaden the circle and attract more speakers and attract more attendees.

[00:47:16] Nathan Wrigley: Tokyo apparently says Tammy was one of the places that has done this in the past. Yeah. I guess if you are in a little ecosystem, I don't know what the WordPress community is like in Poland, but from what Match Check said in that article, it sounds like maybe it was just. Recycling of the same people going around, and so Just widen it a little bit, offer it to English speaking, contributors as well. It's interesting, I'm torn a little bit actually, because I think the English speaking world get a fairly good crack of the whip when it comes to WordPress events, if if you turn up to more or less anything that's large, like the flagship events, it's mainly done in English.

yeah, I, I obviously can't. Criticize this 'cause it's what that community wants to experiment with. But, there's a si there's a side of me which kinda wishes that it was a available to grow, in just by using its native language. But I guess that is probably not the case. So there you go.

Okay. That's for this article though. That made me laugh out loud. Scroll down just a little longer. Magic's quote. Oh yeah. What did he say? I confess I didn't, highlight that. Where do we go? Stop there. Okay. this magic said one of the craziest things I learned this year is how much it costs to hire a pirate ship for an hour.

[00:48:38] Jess Frick: The things you learn when organizing a Word camp. Yeah. it can get very expensive. once you get into. Pirate ship hire. That's a whole nother podcast. And then there's the Polish Pirates versus like the Spanish Pirates. Yeah. Like it's a whole thing. It's robbery, but I'm just oh. yeah.

[00:48:59] Nathan Wrigley: I feel like there's a whole podcast thing in that, how expensive it is to hire a, pirate ship. over to you, mark Ben again. You're into Make a new podcast. this is a bit like You, it's a catchy session title for, yeah, for, lemme write an event session. A sec Pod. Pirate podcast. Okay. I'm gonna write that one down as the possible title of this. There we go. Pirate podcast. Yeah. yeah. The craziest thing I ever did with a word camp was I tried to get Henry Winkler to show up to the word Camp Milwaukee. One. The Fs. The Fs. because Milwaukee is where we have the bronze Fons and our whole theme was like fifties.

[00:49:40] Marc Benzakein: and. To his credit, to his great credit, his agent responded to me and said he'd love to be there, but he's out of the country. But he's sending you a bunch of signed books that he's written. Oh, wow. I got a box full of that I gave away at as prizes at the work camp. that's fantastic.

You doesn't, it doesn't hurt to ask about stuff like this because what would he, I just love the idea. That he would've contributed by basically walking on stage and going, Hey, just walk top again. Exactly. But by the way, mark, that sows the seed in my head. You know how we're always talking about ways to jazz up, WordPress events.

[00:50:23] Nathan Wrigley: I think that would be so interesting. Each event has to bring some celebrity just completely out of context. Get some celebrity to come on stage. Just do whatever they do for 10 seconds and then walk off again just as a bit. Your choices are celebrity or pirate ship? Oh, pirate. Yeah. A pirate ship. Yeah. Or pirate ship.

Yeah. I dunno who I'd nominate if I could, if back in the day when it was, when Elon Musk hadn't thrown so much weirdness out there. I had a lot of, I had a lot of ideas around trying to get in touch with Elon Musk. And getting him on a podcast episode. I don't know who it'd be now, if I could bring anybody to a WordPress, do you know who I'd like?

And it's a bit nerdy, but I'd like Linus, tour Vaults. I'd love to get him on stage. That's in the wheelhouse though, isn't it? It's not that weird, but okay, panelists, let's go through one at a time. Who in your life would you bring to a Word camp? And it does not have to be related to WordPress at all.

So I'll start. It would be Linus, and if it had to be somebody that was nothing to do with WordPress, it would be a British, an English musician, British musician called Jacob Collier. I think he would be great. He is like this jazz musician, but he's a bit, they. A lot of people think he's like comparable to Mozart and things like that, in that he's got this depth and breadth to his musical knowledge, which is not normal.

He's a superhuman when it comes to making mu, so I'd drag him on stage and tell him to just play as a song Jacob. okay, there's mine. What about you, Marcus? Who would you drag along? I wouldn't be a father of two girls if I didn't say Taylor Swift. Really? Gosh. Now you are aiming high.

she's like the top of the list, isn't she? That doesn't get the youth into WordPress. I dunno. What would c Can you imagine if she literally is on WordPress, is she is on? There you go. Can you imagine those? Yeah. Iiv host, sir. If you got her to an event. that would be chaos, right?

Wouldn't it? There? There would be no way of managing that in a sensible way. 'cause you're right, it would be tens of thousands of young, younger people showing up just to be in proximity. It would cease to become a word workout. Just, she just needs to say the word WordPress and I think, okay. We'd have a whole different landscape.

[00:52:43] Marcus Burnette: You could charge 60 bucks for those tickets. Oh sure. Taylor Swift. Imagine it. Okay. Okay. That is gonna be my constant watch word. Let's see if we can get Taylor Swift onto this show at some point before the year 2096. It's any Taylor Swift? Any, okay. Yeah. Any Taylor Swift. All right. That's a good one. I like it.

[00:53:05] Nathan Wrigley: You've aimed very high. Jess, what about you? Who would you drag? Oh, dead. David Bowie. Oh, yes. He would be incredible. You imagine his thoughts on futurism and everything. That's great. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately he's passed away, so you've gotta go for somebody who's alive. I'm sorry. They're the rules.

[00:53:28] Jess Frick: no, you didn't specify. You're right. I didn't. Absolutely. Yeah. It would be very awkward though if you brought David Bow State. Be slightly. Yeah. yeah. The, oh, that's a gross thought. I'm never gonna get rid of that. There's a great show in the uk I dunno if you've seen it, Jess. It's called Extras in, it was a guy called, Ricky jva starred in it, I think it was extras and in it they had all these cameo roles. And one of them was, was him David Bowie. And, he, plays this song about Ricky Java's character and it's so humiliating. It's absolutely brilliant. You should watch it. It's got the song is called Little Fatman.

Oh my god, that's really funny. It's really good. It's really, good. okay, so there we go. We've got Taylor Swift, we've got, Jacob Collier. We have got, who did you just say David Bowie, my memory. And finally to Marcus. I know you've said one already, but now that we've introduced it properly, who would it be?

[00:54:31] Marc Benzakein: it's, it would be between two people. Either, I'm a big comedy fan. I'd either want Mel Brooks or or Martin Short as Jiminy Glick. Okay. and if you haven't watched Jiminy GL Great Choices interviews. Oh my goodness, that he's so funny. There's my live one. You never get a word in Ed, but what's that?

[00:54:53] Jess Frick: Mark's doing short. I'm doing Steve Martin. Okay. Okay. There you go. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Okay. And I've got a new, I've got a new pass away one, which is a British comedian called Tommy Cooper, who if you haven't Googled him, when this show is finished, just do it. Spend three minutes of the presence of Tommy Cooper and Marvel at how funny one human being can be without actually doing anything at all.

[00:55:19] Nathan Wrigley: Just makes you laugh just by standing still. It's absolutely ridiculous. okay, here we go. Power out a Paley ship, apparently. Okay. That's good. totally agree with you, Jess. I don't know what she's talking about there, but she's talking about Bowie just in general. Bowie. Okay. Of course. Yeah. And, David in Extras was hilarious.

He was hilarious. The premise of that show was brilliant. It was a, so have you heard of Ricky's? Of ac? Did the office, the original office? Oh yeah. He became quite famous, I believe. And he did this show called Extras. And the whole show was based around him trying to get into a Hollywood movie, as an extra, just to be somewhere where he said one line.

And so they filmed the whole thing from his perspective. And in the background were all these A-list celebrities, so like Johnny Depp and things like that. But the Twist was Johnny Depp in effect was the extra, because he had one line in the show where he'd say something like, can you just go on over there?

That was it. That was all he got to do. And the, so the, A-list became the extras. And the extras became the A-list. It was really cleverly done. And, there we go. Apparently Taylor Swift's website is built with cadence and is so breathtakingly inaccessible. If only Taylor Swift had a few dollars, lying around where she could employ somebody, who was an accessibility expert.

What are we talking about? Says James, why? What the heck we need Indeed, you dropped into this the world's most incredible word camp panel that's we're trying to imagine. Who would we invite to a Word camp just to spice it up a bit And we ended up, what you're listening to is something that went way off the rails.

[00:57:02] Marc Benzakein: It really did go off you to very, quickly. But I love it when it does that. That's why this show is so much fun. Okay, let's get back on the rails. So that was us talking about, this, word Camp event in, Poland. this is a similar story to the one that Jess just announced. Obviously, Jess has moved from Pressable to now in charge, general [email protected].

[00:57:23] Nathan Wrigley: Something similar, it's an internal promotion, but I thought I'd mention it. I don't know John Penland, but John Penland seems to have had a really amazing story over at Kinter. He has now become the Chief executive Officer, so CEO and, in of itself, that's. That's what it is. We've all heard of Kinter and what have you, but I just like this actually, I like the fact that, he started out in Kinter as a support engineer nine years ago, and he is risen through the ranks, number of roles in sales, operations, customer success, right up to chief, executive officer.

And so I really don't have anything more to say than that. Other than that, the fact that he's worked there for ages means that says here the CEO transition is not expected to bring major shifts as he's been with the company and involved in leadership for many years. So not having met him or know much about him, ah, I guess I'd just say congratulations to John for, your success over there.

Okay. More events this time. WordCamp Asia, if you are gonna go to WordCamp Asia, it's in Mumbai this year. India, for the first time, it's quite exciting. You will have to, of course, as Marcus said, pick between it and press conf. That's right, isn't it? That's the conflict press con and this. Yeah.

[00:58:41] Marc Benzakein: Correct. and, but if you are gonna make it a new fancy going, then they need speakers as they always do. And that call for speakers has now opened. This is a really great page. I know this is ridiculous and getting in the weeds a bit, I feel some of the pages, aren't done as well as this. So I'm not calling out any other page.

[00:58:59] Nathan Wrigley: But this page has been done I think really well. 'cause it demonstrates everything you need to know if you feel like applying. So what kind of talks could you do? Lightning, regular joint sessions, hands-on workshop. What can you speak about? And they've limited, which is curious. They've limited you to a certain, Certain arrangement of topics, ai, business marketing and growth, community contributions and culture development, technical topics, design and user experience workshop. Maybe they're not limiting you, but they're steering. Yeah, that kind of covers most of it. Yeah, it covers everything, doesn't it?

But it's nice that it just supports you through that process. where might you fit in and and then how you might go about actually creating your, sessions and keep it real and all of those kind of things and what have you. And then you can see the dates and what have you. And if you fancy join in, you click this button here and you'll end up on a Google form, which tells you that you've got until Halloween 2025 in order to make your submission.

So you've got absolutely ages, lots and lots of planning gone into this. So there we go. That I think is the last piece of event news. And then. I just wanna say please, they have done such a nice job putting together Word Camp Asia. This year I am fortunate to get to work with two of the organizers.

[01:00:11] Jess Frick: Nice. And so I get to hear a little more than I think most people do. but I think that this is gonna be one of the best years yet It so, proud of the team. I have a sneaking suspicion just because of where it is this year, and the, and I'm gonna use the word hunger. The hunger for WordPress in Asia seems to be remarkable.

[01:00:35] Nathan Wrigley: it seems to be something which is really on, on the rise, growing a really credible career path and those kind of things. And the fact that it's gonna be in a country of 1.4 billion people. And we know that some of the big hitting agencies and development houses are coming out of India. I'm gonna predict that this will be the biggest event that WordPress has ever seen.

I don't actually know if it has the capacity to be that. In other words, can the venue support, let's say 3000 or 4,000 or something like that, but it really wouldn't. Surprised me. I think in many cases, sadly, a lot of the people from India who would have been to other events maybe find the whole process of, let's say, visa application, just as one of the hurdles.

Maybe that was enough to stifle that event in terms of numbers, but I've, got a feeling this is gonna be a whopper. So for that reason alone, I think it would be curious to show up and see what it's like. a 4,000 plus WordPress event will be Yeah. India has local events that are six, 800 people, which is Yep. Yep. That's crazy. And they have a lot of. A lot of them. It's not like there's just one or two. COVID came and went and it seems to have risen off the back like a tidal wave in, in my part of the world. It just, it all fell to pieces and it's very hard to get it to come back.

So that hunger is gonna be amazing. yeah. There you go. Echoing my thoughts there. tacho, because it's in India, I think it has the potential to be the biggest word camp to date yet. I think we need a bit of that, don't we? I feel like it would be nice. I, don't know what your thoughts are. I know that two of you, at least me included, three of us went to Word camp US and that felt like it was, much, much smaller than the previous iteration.

I think 973 tickets or something like that was sold. I could be wrong about that. So going to one which was big, I believe would be amazing. Yeah. And Patricia, I believe India doesn't issue visas for people from Pakistan. Oh really? That's news, that's Intel that I didn't know. So if you are from Pakistan or Bangladesh, you will not be able to attend.

That's a political. Factual. So we should probably have them look into their Yeah, I would love to know if that's true. Actually, Patricia, I'm not denying your, your sincerity there, but it would be good to know if that's actually the case. the dog, Jesse's dog I think had something to say there.

Unfortunately, he did it in bark, and I don't speak bark, I don't have the AirPods yet. AirPod, yes. Yeah, no, imagine the day when that happens and you can finally, that would be amazing. That would be communicate absolutely amazing. Yeah. I wonder, what the dog was basically gonna say. Food or walk or door.

Yeah. It's only a matter of time really. It's only a matter of time. I believe someone had the audacity to drive in front of my house. Oh, okay. Yeah. And that was it. It was outrage. A lizard crept across the driveway. That's what sets my dog off. Yeah. There is something that the, non Floridians don't understand what's.

Oh, that. No, Marcus said a lizard. Yeah. Crow. No, we don't. We don't have lizards. No, We only see pictures of lizards. Oh, that's, and frankly, that's alarming enough. That's the least of it. That's the, I thought you were talking about alligators. I thought you talking about alligators. That's happened too, but.

Yeah. Do you actually get alligators like in the environment? do they wander about sometimes? So Marcus and I live near a lake that next to the Everglades is the most populous body of water in the entire United States for alligators. And it's because that's where they take the alligators that they find in people's pools and backyards and stuff.

[01:04:33] Marc Benzakein: Dump them there. Throw them in there. They do. They really do. Yeah. And so like how often, honestly, how often do you see an alligator just hanging around, just kicking the tires very frequently? Really? Yeah. I, if you came to visit, I could guarantee you an alligator sighting. Yep. Wow. That's mental.

[01:04:50] Nathan Wrigley: That's actually mental. If you'll, if you'll forgive me, I don't wanna see an alligator, but also bald eagles and like red hawks and I'm happy we have lots of hawks in this area. Happy with that. Just the alligators. But alligators don't typically eat pe Look at us. We're going off feast again, so, quickly.

if they don't eat people, do they? Do They do. I bet they do. If you get close, they don't seek people out. Okay. But if you get close enough or threaten their families, then sure. Wow. They're not super aggressive crocodiles, no. Most of the time when you hear somebody got hurt, it's 'cause they're doing something stupid.

[01:05:31] Marcus Burnette: They were doing something dumb. Yes,

that's right. Yeah. Yeah. On the YouTube inside his mouth. Ah, that's right. I'm a social media influencer. I'm gonna photograph myself. So that's just Darwin Award stuff. Anyway. it's natural selection at work. It's, there's this, there's this award, which is issued every year.

[01:05:55] Nathan Wrigley: we have the Nobel Prize for, I think I mentioned this on a previous show. I'll, just be quick. We have the Nobel Prize for outstanding contributions to something, Whatever it may be, science or what have you. there's a body of people who put together the IG Noble Awards, IG Noble meaning, exactly the opposite.

Noble. Although Nobel and Noble are not the same word. And, and it's for the most pointless. Thing like pointless thing in whatever field. And this year, one that caught my attention was the science one and the Ignoble award for science this year went to somebody who spent, I think four years of their life and their PhD was trying to figure out which way.

Is best to transport an unconscious rhinoceros. Just what I mean. I just toss a coin, try out a few. And that's tell me you were born into money without telling you. Oh yeah. You gotta, it gotta be born into money. Spoiler alert. It's on its side. James is apoplectic. Ja James. Tune out now for your own sanity.

James. That's James. Apparently the answer is rhinoceros. Yeah, apparently the rhinoceros. Rhinoceros. Okay, let's get back to it. So Tao had a comment. You can't be serious, can you, Tao? That would be phenomenal. So the comment is, I'd love it to be the first word, camp to go beyond 10,000 attendees. tcho, in all seriousness, could, you respond to that?

Are you, do you actually think that's plausible? 10,000 just seems like such a big jump, doesn't it? It's three XI have no idea what the capacity is at the venue. I was gonna say, what does the venue hold? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I dunno. But if you could, you would. And it seems like India would be the single country on earth at the moment.

okay. Patricia was doing a bit of a check it, it was told to me by somebody from Bangladesh. Okay. Thank you. and then, isn't it Visas that they need, says Tammy, I will stick to being next to sheep in a river with frogs. Yeah. That's about as bad as it gets here, Tammy as well. I like it. but does gosh, honestly, does it does alligator.

It tastes like chicken. That's gotta be this episode title. Yeah, it does. It does it? Okay. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna write that down as the title Alligator taste. It's, a little chewier, but it is basically tastes like chicken. Yes. Okay. Side note, Marcus. I think our next meetup needs to be at Black Hammock.

[01:08:28] Marcus Burnette: What's that? Gets some alligator tenders nuggets. Alligator nuggets. Yeah. They serve gator bite. It's a, restaurant slash airboat facility that is on the side of the lake that we were talking about with all the alligators, the vegetarian credentials of this show of just fallen out the floor. I have no words.

[01:08:49] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay. several, regular word camps says, tacho in India have plummy neck. Several regular word camps in India have 1200 plus cent attendees. So I don't think, 10 K is impossible. So you were being serious. Okay. That what an aspiration that would be. Let's hope the event, organizers have the space to put those in.

So getting back to where we were, Call for speakers is basically where we started off with that. That's where we started, that's where we started off, and then we ended up with eating alligators. it's probably best we don't leave a ton of time for Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Quickly then, I have no idea what this means quickly. Let's not talk about this at all. No, I think this is good. I think this is a good one to talk about. but I am gonna, I'm gonna couch it in my utter lack of legal understanding. I'm just gonna re-read the bit at the top. So there has been a development for many months now.

The legal bits, legal bits and pieces between automatic and WP Engine have been going backwards and forwards as before. Ray from the repository tracks it better than anybody that I know of. She does the hard work to make it understandable. Like she literally attends virtually the entire, the entire court proceeding, which is going a bit above and beyond.

yeah. but I don't really understand what's going on. But I'll just read out from Matt's blog, Matt being Matt Mullen. produced a piece. what date was it? Does it say it on there? It doesn't, it was a few days ago. and he says, just got word from the court, that the court dismissed several WP Engine and Silver Lake's most serious claims, antitrust, monopolization, and extortion have been knocked out.

These were by far, the most significant and far reaching allegations in the case and today's decision. and, with today's decision, the case is narrowed significantly. There are then links to, g Gibson, which I presume is the court. sorry, the, the, legal company that they're using. I'm not entirely sure, but no doubt.

If not already, I'm sure Ray will appraise us of what this, what actually this all means. But obviously things are moving. and in this case, Matt appears to be, satisfied with the way that they've gone there. I dunno what that means for the future or how much we've got left, but I think the end of 2027 is more likely when all of the, all of the shoes will drop.

But that's all I have to say about that, unless any of you want to mention it. No, I think antitrust and monopolization is really hard to prove, so that doesn't surprise me. Okay. I am a little bit, I'm a little bit surprised about the extortion one. okay. But, but. I'm not a legal expert either.

[01:11:36] Marc Benzakein: I've just been following from the peanut gallery like most of us have. Yeah. And that, that one surprises me. but, but it'll be interesting to see what the rest of 'em, where the rest of 'em go. And like you said, Ray will be able to put out a really good piece on all of this, explaining it and words we all understand so well.

[01:11:55] Nathan Wrigley: And the interesting thing about that is even when Ray does her absolute best, I still have to read it two or three times to get any kind of level of comprehension. The, thickness of it and the depth of it all and the minutiae of it all makes it almost impossible for my tiny brain to, to follow what's going.

And because there's such long periods of time between that thing and the next thing. I lose context as well, right? So I can't really keep a track of, okay, where does that fit in? So anyway, it's over to the lawyers, but something has been decided, something has been thrown out, by the court, Courtney says.

So getting back to that, Cloudfest Europe. That was 10,000 people. So it can be done. Man, though, that was a, they had an entire theme park. Yeah, they got a theme park, they got all the fun going on there. okay. Dragging us back into eating alligators. Okay. sorry. It's gotta be done, James.

He's, from being confused to participating. That's, I was gonna say he was, the director here that was keeping us. And now all of a sudden he's, this is acceptance. This is James. Just accepting where we're going. I love this show because it's like this. This is why I love it. If it was just really all about WordPress all the time, I don't think it'd.

I think quite as interesting. The fact that it goes off the rails is great. James, this is the last time that two Floridians are allowed to be on the show at same time. That's, I feel that rule coming along. No, I tried. I was so excited. It felt like when your work bestie gets scheduled with you. Yeah. Yes.

It goes straight into the alligator conversation. I have tried. Alligator says James in New Orleans. no, he's not in New Orleans. He's tried it in New Orleans. Alligator fritters with a creamy parsley sauce. That sounds good. That's not making me hungry. Yeah, that actually sounds good. Okay, here we go.

I think the difference between, so this is Tacho, we're onto the Matts piece now about the, legal action. tacho says, I think the difference between Matt's article and Ray's article is interesting. Oh, she's written a piece already. Has she? Okay. Thanks Tacho. Maybe we'll draw that out next time.

Matt's claiming a win feels, optimistic, he said. Okay. Okay. So Tacho, you are saying that there's a different, there's maybe a different spin on it presented somewhere else. Okay, I will have a look at that. And then Imran, hello Imran. Imran Sadik from Web Script. Web squadron each time Matts claimed a win in the WP Engine.

Dr. WPE WP Engine drama never really is a win. Yeah. Okay. So thank you. So we've got two very different approaches there. I'm reading off the Matts version of things and it would appear that maybe Ray and Tako and Imran have got a different opinion. I shall go. And so you're saying looking at, something that's written from a third party objectively might be more appropriate than reading something that's written by one of the the participants.

[01:14:51] Marc Benzakein: I think that's what they're saying, I think. Okay. Okay. Got it. Yes. Now, yeah. I will go and have a look. I will go and see what I can see in the future. Okay. From one extreme to another. Let's move on. This is a few cloy bits that came my way. usually from other people's newsletters and things like that.

[01:15:06] Nathan Wrigley: I can't remember where this one came from. Might be the WP Weekly again, WooCommerce people. I dunno if this will be of interest to you, but this is version 1.0. It's called, I'm gonna try to pronounce it. It's called Vin Eye Search. and I'll just read the bits and pieces. Enhance your WooCommerce store with Vin Eye Search, the smart and custom customizable search solution for transforming the way your customer shop.

and I'll just read one more sentence. Unlike standard WooCommerce search, Vinai delivers instant relevant and accurate results, helping users find what they want faster and boosting your store's conversions. When I read it, I saw this phrase, token based search algorithm, which made me feel like AI was a part of it.

'cause that's the only context in which I've really heard tokens being used. So I don't know if that's the case, but, maybe it's worth checking out. I don't know. But anyway, there's that, anybody will move on. Okay. Back to ai though, they can somehow fix search query loads, then I'm sure it'll be helpful.

[01:16:09] Jess Frick: I just dunno how it works. Okay. my guess is the AI at the end of WA I is intentional that it is Oh yeah. In some way. AI powered. yeah, we, WordPress and WooCommerce search is one of those things that we're just gonna continue to battle with. So if anybody comes up with a really great one.

[01:16:30] Marcus Burnette: Have at it. Okay. Thank you. Tuck. Isn't it amazing that after all these years, after all these years, we're still working on like a search that works? Oh yeah. Yeah. And they work, it just takes forever. Yeah, sure. They, work. Yeah. if, you think about it, every time you do something like a Google search, the context that's added into that is so immense.

[01:16:53] Nathan Wrigley: and now just going from that list of links to, to something much more personalized is pretty, it's amazing. You, imagine what's going on in the background and we've just got this basic search, which takes absolutely ages. It does seem like. Because of the grunt work that they've got going on in the backend.

They can do a lot, can't they? Whereas those stakes for commerce though, if you can get really good search for commerce and increase conversions, you get the right products in front of the right people, that can make a real difference. yeah. Yeah. tech, clearly good hosting. Oh yeah. There you go.

Thank you. I wonder who you'd be recommending in that scenario? Jess Frick from rocket.net. I wonder which obviously Blue Host. Yeah. Did you hear that? Oh, that was, the first insult I think I've ever heard on this show. Okay. I'm just kidding. It's gonna be kidding. we don't actually need to be on the show together anymore.

[01:17:49] Jess Frick: Yes, Jess. If you just get in your car with a fire, we're still getting alligators. You get around to his house, we're still getting alligators. I think. I think you each need to get a lawn sign. You need to have a lawn sign that says rocket.net and Marcus needs to have one that says blue hose. Yeah. And I can move you something and it'll be like, be the battle that nobody in our community understands.

[01:18:12] Marcus Burnette: That's right. I don't understand the outside. I'd say Jess just nip around there during the night and just put a couple of alligators on his lawn, Show him who's boss. That's all there is to it. tacho knows the team apparently. if we look at the, the plugin again, you can see at the top it says, by sia.

[01:18:32] Nathan Wrigley: I'm gonna go with that. Sia or Lea ai. It's got at the end. it says the team is really nice and skilled, so curious to see what they built. and Oh, the peacemaker. The peacemaker.

There you go. I like blue rockets as well. That's good. I like it. Saved by the Tcho. Very good. Love it. Thank you for your contribution. T that's always the diplomat. Take it down. Always the diplomat. If you have very large pockets, then get into the AI business because it would appear that, two, one and a half billion dollars is the kind of amount that you may have to hand over to people whose data you.

Stole, or took, so this is the anthropic story. Last week, they agreed to a 1.5 voice, barely able to say it, 1.5 billion. Just say that out loud. It's $1,500 million that they are giving because, they, in order to train their Claude model, they went out and ripped a load of books and the authors, as you'd imagine, were not entirely happy with that.

And so in order to make this go away, they're offering to give each eligible I think it's not author, I think it's eligible book, $3,000 each. So add it all up. It comes to $1.5 billion. Obviously, if you've got lots and lots of books like Stephen King may have, I'm just making his name up. I have no idea if he's got anything to do with this lawsuit.

This may be worth tens of thousands to you potentially. I don't. Hundreds in his case. But, yeah, and the, it really does go to show that the kind of, the basis upon which the stuff that we are now using all over the place, AI all over is built on a bit of a shaky foundation, or at least the foundation, which, if you can satisfy it financially is solid.

But if the authors in this case of books are gonna come after you, what an eye watering number of dollars that is. That's just insane. Anybody wanna comment on that? I just read that, Perplexity is being sued by Encyclopedia Britannica. Yep. Yep. Similar issues. And I think we're gonna continue seeing this.

[01:20:51] Jess Frick: And I, I do wonder, so one of my favorite movies ever is Boondock Saints. And the director famously made no money on it because he had most of his contracting, finances tied up in VHS distribution, and of course it got pirated. And then everybody, cult classic and the guy made no money until boondock Saints too.

I kinda wonder how that's gonna play out in this world of AI and the lawsuits and, ip, ownership and, how many authors are not even gonna see a penny of their work being, redistributed by ais because some, book publisher had digital rights. Or, some weird little clause somewhere.

it'll be really interesting to see what that means. And also, how, people will be interested in distributing their content going forward as a result. That's the bit that's interesting to me is, this bit here for publishers and creators. Oh no. sorry. Here we go. if you rely on AI tools in content workflows, provenance now matters more.

[01:22:00] Nathan Wrigley: So, this is me and nothing to do with anthropic per se, but if we've been using an AI and producing content off the back of it, I dunno how you would ever. notice that, that the content from a particular author had been used. And obviously this lawsuit presumably sweeps that whole thing away from Anthropic anyway.

But it does raise the question that if your content was consumed by an AI and somebody with an AI's help spins up another bit of content, which is similar to yours in some obvious way. yeah, it's interesting. I've seen a few bits online where people have created a brand new, utterly unique bit of content.

literally just made up a spurious kind of band or something like that. And then written articles about them only to find that, if you then go a few days later to an AI and ask it information about it, it knows about them and it takes your stuff as being true 'cause it's the only stuff it can find.

So it's fascinating, but it's caveat. mTOR really, we get what we, we get what we wish for. They're definitely built on our product. And, and I'm still on the fence. I don't really know where I sit on that because I want the open web. Everything to, if you put something on the web, I want it to be free and available for everybody to consume.

It's where it becomes transformative. I dunno where that lie, you know where that line in the sand is? Yeah. You have very different laws in the US around things like free speech and things like that. yeah. what constitutes a remix as opposed to derivative? Yep. But also just the capacity to say, no, I never agreed to any of this.

I put my stuff online. Yeah, sure I did that, but I had the expectation that you would come to my website or at least a search engine would drive traffic in my direction so that I would benefit from it. Not now. Nobody's ever gonna consume my stuff 'cause it's gonna be regurgitated out or the eight, or, I don't know, a search engine's just gonna cream off the best bits and recycle it as if it was their own content.

It's the battle of our time, I think. Yeah, and it's a. That's a lot of money too. Obviously 1.5 billion. But I wonder too if it's just cost of doing business for some of these. Yeah, because, yep. While the article says that they're gonna destroy the, the pirated books. The data's already in, it's there.

[01:24:18] Marcus Burnette: Yeah. The training data is already there. They're not going back through training data and pulling that stuff out. As far as I could tell, they're just agreeing to scrap the pirated copies of books that they have. Oh, is that what it is? So they're just gonna delete that corpus of information, although, yeah, that's what it looked like in the article.

Okay. The trading data is, done, you know that information is already in their models. It's already, yes. okay. Yeah. So it's, yeah. So it's just a cost for them, And okay, we got caught, we paid the bill, and now this data's in our trading model. I think Tacho sums it up really well here actually.

[01:24:54] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you, tacho, as always, very cogent and thoughtful analysis in a couple of sentences, summed it up nicely. Open and free are not the same kind of, I often co conflate the two things as being the same. I think in some way when talking about the open web, we need companies making money if we want the web to be sustainable.

that's it in a nutshell, isn't it? It feels like the AI is a winner, takes all kind of mentality. which doesn't feel like it's in, in everybody's best interest. I'm sure it'll be in the interest of the VCs and the shareholders in those AI companies, but it doesn't seem to have the long term interests of all of us out there.

Anyway, there you go. So hopefully if you've got a book, or indeed as Davidon said, if you've got a non-existent book, you can go and see if you can get $3,000 outta anthropic, for the book that you never wrote. That sounds good. A couple of hat tips this week, couple of bits I wanted to mention.

Firstly, this one, from Mku, this is far too technical. Rems DRIs, he's often on this show, far too technical to go into here. Sorry, I was trying to get rid of that caption. There we go. Let me put that back. and he in this piece talked very long. The WordPress loading sequence all about, technically what happens when you, visit a WordPress page?

what are the bits and pieces which are occurring? And as you can see, if you can see this, I'm scrolling and scrolling. Scrolling, and there's a lot. one thing that I wanna know, rim 'cause is, what the heck is this font? I wanna know. Yeah. I was like, what's going on with these headers, man? look at this.

Look at this letter. A for example, look at the way the kind of look. It looks like an look. There's this slight bit here and there's a fold here. Same with. I'm loving it. It's really nice, but I wonder if it's a custom one that he's got. 'cause I've never seen that before. Anyway, so that's the first piece.

And then the next piece is he's been hard at work Remus on a speed up your website. It's called the Complete Blueprint for blazing fast WordPress sites. he's been talking about this, with me and many other people for many, months and he's been finessing it and getting it all done.

It's now ready to go. so I'm gonna just point you to the URL. It's within WordPress. No, it's not. It's within WP. Com slash courses slash make WordPress fast and each of those words is hyphenated. But if you just go back to mku of re.com and then you hover click on the courses section, you'll be able to see it's here as well.

And it is a really deep dive into how to make your, how to pick up if your WordPress website is, is not as quick as it should be. Obviously one component which two of the panelists here would be interested in would be the hosting side. But there's a ton of other stuff going on and in 25 modules, he breaks it all down.

So if this is your bag, you want your WordPress site speeding up, then go and check it out. There we go. we're fast running out of time. Okay. Shall we end here? Let me just see what the other bit, oh, let's just mourn this for a bit, shall we? A tear to your eye? WordPress didn't have to win the Battle of the CMSs, but it did.

There were lots of potential rivals back in the day, and this was one of them. this was coming from a, Typepad, the story here is that Typepad is going out of existence. it'd be a bit like wordpress.com. I think it, that would be the best way to describe it. It's a, it's an online version of movable type, which was a CMS.

There's this long and storied history of how, Typepad came to be and selling of it, and it being bought by various people. But the point is, if you have a type pad. Piece of content. If you've got a website out there, then it's gonna die. It's gonna disappear. So you've got just a few months, I think it's October.

so coming up very soon they're gonna shut off the servers and the whole thing is gonna go, completely dark, which is very sad. 'cause it does mean that probably thousands, maybe millions, I don't know of pieces of content on the internet go out there only to be found on, I don't know, archive.org or.

You could always, somewhere a CLO is licking its lips. Yeah, that's right. Woo. Exactly. But you could bring 'em over to WordPress. Of course. I imagine there's tools and services to do just, yeah, I didn't get a chance to read this is Google type isn't going away, just type iPad. Is it possible for people to move, so this just goes back to the argument of owning your own content, right?

[01:29:24] Marcus Burnette: Yeah. And being able to move it. So if you host a movable type site somewhere, can you move your type pad site to Yeah. Else elsewhere. Still on movable type or. I don't know the way there, the CMS is still ha hanging around I believe. Yeah, the CMS is still hanging around. So this, I think is a bit like the.com version of WordPress where, you pay a subscription fee and the, your content will exist until you stop paying the subscription fee.

[01:29:51] Nathan Wrigley: the, I think that's the case here. So I imagine there's ways of consuming that content and throwing it over to WordPress. Maybe somebody in the, in the comments can help us out. But anyway, it's gonna go dark. They are gonna turn the servers off slightly unexpectedly. 'cause they said just a few months ago, earlier this year, that they had no plans to do that.

So it is with a tear in all of our collective eyes that what was once a thriving rival to WordPress is, is going away. So two parts. One of them is going away, the online hosted version. So if that's you or a client. Time to get them, on some different hosting, right? Very last one. Last week we showed you a website, which was like Windows xp.

I dunno if you, remember that listeners, but, we showed a website on the screen, which was just like the operating system, windows xp. It was breathtakingly similar. And so just as we end, I'll raise you this one. This is the post hog.com website. I have no words for this. This is, this is next level stuff.

I've never, I don't think ever seen anything quite as in depth as this, as a website before. So if you're listening to this, it looks, I don't know, it looks like a distribution of Linux or something like that. It looks like a desktop and there's a bunch of items, and it does not matter which one you click on.

This interface opens up and every single bit of it. Gets you somewhere completely different. Like it, it really is. It's like an operating system. It doesn't matter where you go. Let's open up, I don't know, whatever this thing is, you've got this whole, then you can like do searches and filters and what the heck?

they spent a lot of time on this. Oh, literally, I, if I started work on this now. I would be like the age of Gandalf and I still wouldn't be anywhere near finishing it. it's just absolutely blooming ridiculous. It is their doc session. so anyway, I would just say go and have a play.

'cause it's absolutely remarkable. It's a go to the pricing though. I think pricing was one of my favorite parts of the calculator over there. On the left. On the left. On the left. On the left. Pricing. Okay. We get a Yeah, I love that they have a box with a disc. Yeah, that's my favorite. that was it.

In the day. Pay as You, but isn't it amazing? Oh, and the best bit, my favorite bit that I discovered, I think it was in trash. Okay. Is it in trash? Yeah. If you go into the trash, they've actually filled the trash off and one of them is employees. Feet pictures. Oh boy. actually put pictures of their employees feet labeled them.

Things like plenty of feet, questionable decisions, lobster toes, and so on. But what the heck? Oh my. This is the stuff that's just in the bin, like long term co. Anyway, I just think it's a completely That's great. Remarkable website. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. Phenomen it. It's absolutely amazing.

[01:32:56] Marc Benzakein: Yeah. There you go. Post hog.com. Cog knows whether they'll get any sales generated from, it's a SAS app. I don't even know. Lots of traffic though. That's, yeah, lots of traffic, I'm sure. Just 'cause it's a lot fun. Okay, I think that's it. That's what we've got time for. So if everybody's all right. I'm gonna call this episode Alligators Taste Like Chickens.

[01:33:16] Nathan Wrigley: 'cause I think that kind of perfectly sums it up. Yeah. Look, Jess's limb Brain off. she's already ready. My lunch is terrible. Catching it up. Humiliating hand wave time. Has everybody got their hands at the ready mark? Are you able to join us in this, Marcus? That's lovely. There we go. Thank you so much.

I will use that. This episode will come out on, tomorrow, the 16th of September as an audio podcast. That's why we do it. Really to get it to you in audio format. That's the whole point. but it's nice to get everybody on the screen. That's lovely too. so it only remains for me to say thank you, to Jess, Rick, the general [email protected].

Also to Marcus Bonnet from the WP World, as well as Blue Host and Mark Zaca from Maine. Wp, thanks for joining us and of course it. It goes without saying thank you to you if you are joining us live. Really appreciate that You keep the whole show going and, make us very happy indeed. Don't have nightmares about alligators unless you live in Florida, in which case you probably should be worrying about them right now.

See you next week. Take it easy. Bye bye. Bye bye bye. Bye bye.