[00:00:20] Nathan Wrigley: Hello there and welcome once again to the WP Builds podcast. You've reached episode 429 entitled Aurélien Denis on crafting emails natively in WordPress with MailerPress. It was published on Thursday, the 17th of July, 2025. My name's Nathan Wrigley and a few bits of housekeeping before we begin.
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Okay. What have we got for you today? Well, it's all about a fantastic new plugin. It's really, really new. They're looking for beta testers. Hopefully that is still happening. If not, you'll be one of the early adopters. It's called MailerPress, and today I'm chatting with one of the founders.
MailerPress. Looks a lot like Gutenberg. You'll find that it's not actually Gutenberg, it's a simulation of Gutenberg, let's put it that way. But it offers you the ability to design emails in an interface that you are very familiar with, if you are using WordPress ie blocks. It looks exactly identical.
So we talk about how the plugin got started. How it is that it works. Where your data is kept what. Blocks they have. How they handle integration with WordPress. So for example, bringing in the content that you've already got, especially if you've got a WooCommerce store. GDPR, and a whole bunch of other things.
It's coming up next, and I hope that you enjoy it.
I am joined on the podcast by Aurélien Denis. Hello Aurélien.
[00:04:43] Aurélien Denis: Hello?
[00:04:44] Nathan Wrigley: I, I fear that I may well have butchered your name, but that was my best attempt. you're joining us from France, but I'm not sure where.
[00:04:53] Aurélien Denis: Yeah. In the southwest of France.
[00:04:55] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. Aurélien has a really interesting product. I know for a fact that when this comes out, I am going to take a long, hard look at it. The product is not yet released, but if you have the idea that you would like to send out email. Better yet that you would like to send out email from your WordPress website.
Well, mailer press pretty cool name by the way. Nice catch on the URL there. mailer Press is, a plugin, which is pre beater maybe. part of the podcast episode today is to try and get you to sign up for the beta, get you interested in what they're offering, get on the beta list and see if you can help them forge the plugin and figure it all out.
Before we get into all of that, I'm just gonna give you the URL so that you can pause the podcast, go and have a look, see if the features match what you, are into, you'll get a better idea of what we're talking about you, because you'll be able to watch the little intro video and see some screenshots of the UI and things like that.
So it's mailer, M-A-I-L-E-R, mailer press dot com, mailer press.com. So go and check that out. But, okay. Aurélien, what does it do?
[00:06:08] Aurélien Denis: Yeah. so thank you for, inviting me in your podcast. It's a real pleasure. I want to let you know that, we are three people on this mail. Press plugin for WordPress. And, the other people are developing right now, the, final beta, public beta. So it's, we are working hard to make it, maybe the best WordPress emailing plugin on the market in the future.
It's our objective,
[00:06:41] Nathan Wrigley: I, I really thought the day that Gutenberg first dropped, or at least the day that I first saw it. I had this intuition that email and something like the block editor ui, and we can go into whether or not you're using blocks and how that's all being done in a minute. But I remember thinking this, interface, this UI is perfect for the creation of email.
Because you can drag components in blocks. Those blocks can be as complicated or as straightforward as you like. some complicated layout of blocks, which we would obviously call a pattern. Or it could just be a simple paragraph and that of course then can be stacked one on top of the other. You can constrain the width and things like that.
And, it felt a lot like something like, I don't know, active campaigns, email builder or. MailChimp, there were all the bits and pieces which made it feel the same, so I'm guessing you felt the same way about it as well, that it's just the, something like that, the way it looks is the perfect ui, but are you actually using Gutenberg and are you using any core blocks or have you gone your own route?
[00:07:52] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, correct. A Gutenberg project is really awesome for us and, as a developer, I'm using it every day with the site editing and the blocks editor. So we really enjoy using it. But for Melo Press, we have to create, our custom editor based on the UI of Gutenberg. So this is a very important thing for us because we don't want, to manage some core evolutions and we don't want to, lose control on the editor.
So we create under the hood, a complete custom editor and it's fully drug and doc. It works like Gutenberg, the same kind of UIs, the blocks on the left. This is a panel control on the right, but it's not Guttenberg only the ui.
[00:08:46] Nathan Wrigley: That's absolutely fascinating. So you've literally mimicked the, Gutenberg ui, but, it is not Gutenberg, it's not like you've just stripped out the core blocks and added your own blocks in. you've completely rebuilt it so that it's that familiar ui. but it works for whatever, whatever constraints you've got.
[00:09:06] Aurélien Denis: We always try to create, products which, look like native features of WordPress, so the user is not lost into different, interface. He is familiar with Gutenberg, and we think that the future of WordPress is. adopting the Gutenberg UI in all the screens, all the admin screens. So we, think it's the right way to do, our plugin today.
[00:09:37] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so you install the plugin. Obviously we are pre beater at the moment, but you would install the plugin then does that create like a automatically, would that create like a custom post type of something? Like newsletter or something like that? And then we can click add newsletter and presumably we launch the, UI that looks like Gutenberg.
[00:09:58] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, we are using type for our campaigns for the, audience, and, We can, you can create, a campaign from, an interface, which looks like full site editing with the black background and on the, in the full screen mode, And if user, if you, if listeners are not, using full site editing yet, I encourage you to do so because it's the future of world press.
And you can do really cool stuff with it. So in mail press, we adopt this user interface for, managing your campaigns, your newsletter, your audience, and the plugin settings too. and under the, hood, it's custom post type custom tables and other cool stuffs, you have to use, when you create, some plugins, novel ice.
[00:10:56] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, let's imagine then that I've installed the plugin, I've gone to add new newsletter. And the, UI has opened up. So usually with a post, we're presented with a blank canvas. there's a space for a title, and then the content comes after that. And then we begin the process of dropping in blocks.
If we begin typing, we've got a paragraph, and then we can amend things and drag things in. Now I'm looking at a screenshot of, on the mailer press, website, and I can see now this may be. Not true, but I can see that you've got the following blocks as options and I'm calling them blocks. Maybe you don't even call them that.
I dunno. But let's go with blocks. So you've got the option to add in. Headings speaks for itself. Text. Yeah. Obvious button. Again, divider image. Spacer. I'm gonna miss one out and I'll come back to it. Navigation social table. I actually missed two out, query and carousel. Now, most of those are pretty obvious, we all know what, what, an a spacer will do and a button will do.
But the ones that I think are interesting, the query one, which I think is probably gonna be the most interest for WordPress users, so I'm guessing. With the query block, it's possible for me not to have to type in all the things that I've already typed in somewhere else.
So if I've saved a post, for example, and I've got an image and I've got some excerpt texts, and I've got some content, I'm guessing the query would be able to drop pre-written posts and custom posts and things like that into my email, right?
[00:12:28] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, the query block is working as a query block in the default workplace editor. You can query every content from your workplace, and, we grab the, everything in an inner block and, you can have, your product block post and everything else from your WordPress into your newsletter. For us, it was a big, a very big feature that we have to incorporate in the first releases of mail press because, unlike some, third party platform like MailChimp, SRID, or others, it's always hard to get your content from the.
[00:13:11] Nathan Wrigley: it's agony.
[00:13:14] Aurélien Denis: You spend time copying and passing, everything, the image, the, product price and so on. So the query block is here to solve this pain?
[00:13:25] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, wait, you just said price, so it, could be a WooCommerce product or something like that? Of course. Ah.
[00:13:34] Aurélien Denis: we really, want to, use mail press as. Some kind of in the future, not in the first version as a marketing, auto automation marketing platform too. So we will, try to, incorporate some WooCommerce features, in the long, term.
[00:13:53] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that would be really nice. So the idea that, you just begin, maybe, I don't know, maybe you've got a search interface or something like that. You begin typing and it figures out, okay, you're probably talking about this product, and then you click a button and all of the bits and pieces drop into the sort of template around that.
There's the image, there's the text, there's the price, and okay, that's neat.
[00:14:14] Aurélien Denis: card with the product thumbnails, the on the, thumbnail.
[00:14:22] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Yeah, that's really interesting. So when we're using the block editor, the, the one that ships with WordPress, we're basically, we've got an interface to create HTML, out, just depending on what blocks you drag in.
Basically the ultimate goal is that HTML is spat out on the front end. Now that HTML can be combined with JavaScript and it can be combined with CSS and you can really go to town on the way that your WordPress website would look like. However, my understanding is that email is stuck in like the 1990s kind of still, right?
It's all table space. Is that still the case?
[00:15:03] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, you're right. Emails are totally outdated. It's creating website 25 years ago. But we, try to, manage it with MGML, language, which was created by major platform and, it's very popular to, to create, beautiful emails with the correct rendering. The advantage for us to use MGML is that you can, import just by copying and passing into our editor some templates in a second.
So if you try to, download, just copy from, an MGML templates from, free templates on the internet into mail press. Just wait one second. And the email templates, it's is imported in the editor. You don't have to manage blocks. Everything is mapping to the correct, blocks in the editor. So this is why we, use MGML.
[00:16:04] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so that gives you a sort of more internationally understood language around which the email creation community can gather. And so it sounds like what you are saying is that out on the internet in the wild, out there somewhere are kind of websites where you can go to with examples of nice looking emails and you can just copy and paste the code and you just drop that into mailer press and it will convert it into the blocks that you have available and map it.
[00:16:35] Aurélien Denis: you're right. In the future we also provide some, premium templates directly, in the mail press plugin too,
[00:16:43] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.
[00:16:43] Aurélien Denis: have to handle this, design stuff, by yourself.
[00:16:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, so I'm guessing, if you were to open this up and you are familiar with the block editor, you might be thinking to yourself, where's all the blocks? Where's all the blocks that I'm familiar with? including all of the ones that are just right down at the bottom that nobody, ever gets.
To like the Vimeo embed and things like that, but you can't do that in an email, right? If you were to drop in those clever blocks that WordPress ships with in core and the third party blocks that you can download in various places, that would just break the email client, right? It would spit out completely incompatible HTML.
That would be unreadable by an email client.
[00:17:24] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, you're totally right. That's a big and technical challenge for us to, prevent users from doing something bad with, blocks. So we have to, handle this kind of cases. in the block editor, you can't do everything you do with, the WordPress editor. You, we have to create some columns and sections.
So it works fine in all client's email and, the drag and drop editor is here to, to prevent this.
[00:18:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I can understand that. Now, one of the questions that I've got is if I was to create an email and I spend a really long time just setting it out, just how I like, the con correct configuration of. Everything. And I know that this is the email that I want to use over and over again, and I just want to drop it in and then delete Lauren text for want of a better word.
Can I do that? Is there a way of saving a template or a pattern you might call it? I don't know, so that I can just click a button and, I'm, off to the races for next time.
[00:18:35] Aurélien Denis: Totally. We have the, we. We do this with a pattern and templates approach in mail press like you have in site editing system. So we really, enjoy doing this every day. you have some part, let's make an example with a section, a big picture, a culture action, a headline, and you want to use it in every mail so you can create a pattern on this.
If you have some email, which is regular for you, you can also create a template from directly into mail press. So you are totally correct. You can do this.
[00:19:14] Nathan Wrigley: If I'm using the query, block that you mentioned, so let's say that I saved a template with a query block in it, and it's asking, and I'm guessing that this is how it works. show me the latest three posts.
[00:19:27] Aurélien Denis: Yeah.
[00:19:27] Nathan Wrigley: Would the template, if I was to use it, would it show me the latest three posts, or would it show me the three posts that were saved when the template was saved, if
[00:19:38] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, I know it's a feature we are discussing, with, our, team, several time because we would like to create some, automatic newsletter approach with it. So, we are working on it. It's not, we are, we don't have the final decision, but, we really want to, have some this kind of feature.
So you have to, you don't have to edit every time your emails, so it can be automatically, done with importing your latest, product post and, so on, directly into your, campaign. We, are discussing on this feature
[00:20:18] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I think that's a really nice feature to have. 'cause as I'm speaking, it just occurs to me that you could hook into all sorts of WordPress things. I don't know, the published button inside of a regular post, for example, and a post is published, I don't know, wait 10 minutes and then I. Send out this template, and this template has a query which will sock in the featured image from that post.
So in other words, I hit publish on my post and immediate, 10 minutes I described. I know that I'm gonna get an email associated with it, which would be nice, right? That's a, yeah, a neat feature. Okay.
[00:20:54] Aurélien Denis: You are right.
[00:20:55] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah. Let's, wait and see. Yeah, good luck with that in that case. So the next thing I wanna ask is that one of the pain points around creating like emails is branding, like you've gotta get all of your colors right and set all of that kind of stuff up.
And I notice on your website that you've got compatibility with modern WordPress, things like theme JSON for things like colors and what have you. So that's part of the setup as well. I don't have to go and copy and paste my entire brand style guide and the heading's gotta be this. I can just pre-select from, it will be included in the ui, but it will be sucking out of the theme, JSON, directives.
Things like, okay, this is the heading color and this is the text color, and all of that kind of stuff.
[00:21:39] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, we are, we write, we use Zim agent to, to get the Zim color so you don't have to know which, exact symbol or a GB color is, and you don't have to convert it with the, right value for an email, which is also not the same value as you can have on your website. And it's very easy to use.
And that's why we are always encouraging, people to create, modern websites with the block editors or ForSight editing features because everything now in WordPress will rely on it. And Mail press is extended this by using, brand system. Design system.
[00:22:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, just a little time saver, isn't it? if you've got all of the colors ready to go and you drop a new block in, you don't have to go searching for the correct color. You can. Yeah. It's already ready there for, I
[00:22:34] Aurélien Denis: It's very easy.
[00:22:35] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, I guess things like fonts are a little bit maybe different because of the constraints around which, again, going back to the 1990s way that email works, there's only a limited arrangement of
[00:22:47] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, yeah. Phones are very limited, so you can't have some, Google phones, because Gmail is not supporting Google, for instance. And.
[00:22:57] Nathan Wrigley: it is crazy that the biggest emails platform in, in terms of receiving and is Gmail, and it doesn't, how hard would it be for Google, to push the initiative of can we just make email like a webpage? can we just support H-T-M-L-C-S-S JavaScript? There's probably a good reason for it, but.
[00:23:16] Aurélien Denis: yeah, apple is doing this, so why? Why Google is not.
[00:23:21] Nathan Wrigley: I dunno. Yeah. Anyway, nevermind. So there's modern aspects of WordPress thrown in there. You can get things like your colors and your font sizes and things like that out. That's really nice. a little while ago you talked about how you were sending things and who you were sending to, and that's a place that I think we'd want to, we'd want to figure out, especially in.
Especially in the, the era of the GDPR and all of that kind of stuff. are we housing the data of recipients? So let's say I've got an email list of a thousand people. are you sending these emails through a third party system, like active campaign or MailChimp, or is it going out through some.
Custom service that you've built or an SMTP connection, and where are those users held? Are they held inside the WordPress database? There's actually lots of questions there, but I'll just, hopefully you'll figure that out.
[00:24:14] Aurélien Denis: The most, I, the most important thing for us is that you have the control on your data. and we don't want to limit, you on, how ma how many people you have in your database, how many campaigns you, what would you like to create? So everything stay in your WordPress. So you have unlimited, unlimited data.
But if you want to use some custom services, third party, API, to send your emails with better availability, you have to. To, to synchronize the things, with, with the, with your account. So you will have limits on third party platform, but if you have 10,000 of emails of contact in your what was database, it'll not be a problem.
The problem will be when you want to send them using like a MailChimp or send grid API, so you'll have the limit based on your premium paying. In fact.
[00:25:18] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.
[00:25:19] Aurélien Denis: But on WordPress, we will not limit you, when using mailer press. So you can combine different, SFTP services, maybe your own server. If you want to try the plugin with just, your shared hosting system, I don't recommend it, but you will be able to do this.
And, we'll try to integrate with as many as services as we can. So you'll have the choice on, the deliverability system.
[00:25:51] Nathan Wrigley: So it'll be things like, there'll be a UI for connecting stuff like, oh, I dunno. Amazon, SES. Or send Grid or all of these other platforms who do the job of sending out email. And presumably then you will handle the, handshaking between, the rate limiting and sending things out and all of that.
And then give, do you give data on the backend as well about. You know how many recipients there were, or is that something you would need to go to the provider for to look at? So you know, you get analytics when you've sent out an email, it shows you how many people opened them and things like that.
Are you intending to show that or is that gonna be the third party platform?
[00:26:31] Aurélien Denis: We'll try to show that in, in the mail press interface. But we have some API constraints, we have to, manage, with all the different APIs, but it's something we can, we can, do, yes, totally.
[00:26:47] Nathan Wrigley: Just getting back to the contacts then. Are the contacts, the, recipients of the email, are they're in the database and is that, true? First of all? Yeah. And presumably they're like a custom user role or something like, I don't know, email recipients or something like that.
[00:27:06] Aurélien Denis: it's, all based on custom tables. So, we are not, storing, subscribers into, WordPress, user, table,
[00:27:17] Nathan Wrigley: You are not.
[00:27:18] Aurélien Denis: no.
[00:27:19] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, interesting. Okay. So it's just into a separate, completely customized table that you, okay. Obviously you can poll and, what have you. Okay. And, and how's the, how is the actual plugin coming along? So we're recording this kind of halfway through 20, 25, something like that, just slightly over halfway through.
How's the, how's the product coming? You said that the. Three of you. I dunno if you're working on this full-time or if you've got other projects, which you are very busy with, and this kind of gets a little bit of attention, roughly when do you think you are gonna be taken on board? The first round of testers.
[00:27:54] Aurélien Denis: We hope that at the end of, the first semester of 2025, the beta will be publicly made available for every. One who subscribed to our mailing list. And, after a couple of weeks of, feedbacks, we'll make it, we'll make the very first version for all on the WordPress org repository.
[00:28:20] Nathan Wrigley: So that's interesting. So you said the WordPress org repository, and as anybody who's a WordPress will know, that means that there's a free version. is it all a free version or are you gonna have like additional features at some point in the future, which are gonna be behind, a license, a pro version, or something like that?
[00:28:39] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, it's a simple approach of a free version with some basic features to, to send email directly from your WordPress and a premium version with some cool additional features. And, we'll provide, In the future, we have a big roadmap of what we will try to achieve in the next month. But, we, it's a side project for all of us right now, so we have to take care of our time and, prioritize, every, every, feature we want to incorporate into the product.
And our objective, in the short term is to get as many feedbacks as we can. So our final users give us some insights on what they really want to have in mail press. And that's the point.
[00:29:31] Nathan Wrigley: I, I always find it's really easy to never ship something because you you've always got, oh, we should add this and there definitely this needs to go and this is crucial. We must have this. you are probably in that moment, at the moment, trying to figure out which, what, the core product has to look like before it's worth using.
And, and you want people to help you with that. So if you were to go to mailer press.com, you'll see that there's, wait list buttons all over the website, and there's a form field where you just put your email address in.
I'm guessing with that community of people, you are trying to figure that out. what are the actual things that people are going to use and what's a, waste of our time? this one thing that we assume everybody's gonna use, but nobody actually wants to make use
[00:30:17] Aurélien Denis: Yeah, that's the objective.
[00:30:19] Nathan Wrigley: if somebody were to join the, wait list, do they, are you gonna be robbing their back because they're robbing yours?
What I mean by that is, do you, will you be offering like a pro version or a discount or anything like that to people who step up and help you out? I.
[00:30:36] Aurélien Denis: Is that's, that's a good question. For now, we are, we will try to, send, a good coupon for people who are investigating their time into, feedbacks for our product. So yes, we will rewrite rer reward, sorry, people about, about, giving us, real feedbacks. Sure, sure.
[00:31:00] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, that's really nice. I think I've probably asked all of the bits and pieces that I want to ask. So just one more time. mailer press.com is where you're gonna go check it out's a short little video on there at the moment, and it can, it really does show you in just a few moments exactly what this is intended to achieve.
is there anything that you felt we didn't cover before we finish?
[00:31:24] Aurélien Denis: yeah, I can give you some, really cool stuff. We are working, under the hood.
[00:31:29] Nathan Wrigley: Nice.
[00:31:31] Aurélien Denis: So we are trying to to, add some AI features and some automation features in mail press for the next couple of months, but I can tell you more from now.
[00:31:44] Nathan Wrigley: AI just sneaks in everywhere these days, doesn't it? But AI in creating email, Yeah, that's a nice idea. okay, so mailer press.com. Go check it out and yeah, hopefully if you join the wait list, you will be able to help out the, the inauguration, the beginnings of this plugin. So thank you very much for chatting to me today.
Good luck with the plugin. I hope it all
[00:32:05] Aurélien Denis: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:32:07] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, that's nearly all that we've got time for this week. I hope that you enjoyed that. If you did, head over to wpbuilds.com, search for episode number 429. Leave us a comment there. You don't have to have enjoyed it. If you didn't enjoy it and you had something to say, you could also leave us a comment. We'd really appreciate that.
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And keeping the lights on this week is also Omnisend. Omnisend, do you sell your stuff online? Then meet Omnisend. Yes, that Omnisend. The email and SMS tool that helps you make 73 bucks for every dollar spent. The one that's so good, it's almost boring. Hate the excitement of rollercoaster sales? Prefer a steady line going up? Try Omnisend today, at Omnisend.com.
And sincere, heartfelt thanks go to Bluehost, GoDaddy Pro, and Omnisend for their continuing support of the WP Builds podcast.
Okay, almost there. Just a quick reminder, we'll be back on Monday, This Week in WordPress live, 2:00 PM UK time. wpbuilds.com/live. We'd love your comments. It'll be pushed out as a podcast the next day, so that's Tuesday morning, but we'll also be back next Thursday for the podcast episode. A bit like your listening to now. It'll likely. Be an interview. Don't forget to subscribe over at wp builds.com/subscribe.
I only have time now to fade in some cheesy music. To say stay safe. Have a good week. Bye-bye for now.
