This Week in WordPress #303

[00:00:04] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for this week in WordPress, episode number 303, entitled this lunar cycle in WordPress.

It was recorded on Monday the 22nd of July, 2024. My name's Nathan Wrigley and I am joined by three fabulous people today. The co-host is Michelle Frechette, and the two guests are Dave Grey and Derek Ashauer.

It is a WordPress podcast, although we do stray a bit off piste this week.

First up, we talk about all of the bits and pieces that came in 6.6. What do we like? And what do we make use of.

We also get into a conversation which was started by a post which Matt Mullenweg put on his own blog in which he talked about the recent price hikes for a particular website over on Webflow. Was that normal was that to do with their terms and conditions? You can judge for yourself.

We talk about some events. So we talk about the WP London meetup, which is happening this week. We also talk about Stellar Spark, which happened last week. WP Diversity Day and WordCamp Canada, all come under inspection as well. Related to word camp Canada. We talk about the WP Community Collective and a few people that they have incentivized along the DEIB grounds this week.

We also talk about an event which happened in Uganda this week and promote a video.

Nitro Pack has been bought by WP Engine, and the plugin Cwicly has come back from the dead. What does this mean? Will people ever trust that property again?

And we also talk about the CrowdStrike vulnerability, which has been affecting people from north to south of the globe.

All that and more. Coming up next on this week. In WordPress.

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Hello? Hello. Hello. Hi there. this week in WordPress number 303. That's quite a mind now. Yeah, I know, It just keeps going up, Michelle. It never goes down. I know whats going on there. Yeah. so we are here. I just quickly should get this out there. I'm gonna have a week off next week because, it's the, school holidays in the uk.

yeah, Dave's because that's what, that's when we have it. I think in the US you are just going back to school and all that kind of thing, aren't you? when we are just beginning the holidays, you are finishing and really depends on where you live in the United States. Okay.

Okay. The north goes back to school in September, but the south goes back in August. Oh, okay. So that, okay. The north is a little bit like it is here. Any, our kids, have a bit of time off, so we're gonna go off and so that's why I'm saying that we're gonna take a, week off. But, but we're here for this week and as you can see, we're joined by three fabulous people.

Firstly, lemme get the angle right down there in the corner is Michelle Frechette, the co-host for this episode. Nice to have you with us, Michelle. Good to be here. Thank you. Michelle's just got back. I, I dunno when just got back applies, but, from Word, word Camp Canada, you tell us all about that a little bit later.

yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Michelle Frechette, though, if you haven't seen her before, she's been on the show many times before. she is the director of community Engagement for Stella WP at Liquid Web. That's, all on its own line. So I guess, is that the main thing that you do? That's my, day job.

[00:04:55] Michelle Frechette: That's my bread and butter. That's the day job. Yeah. Yeah. I spend most time, yeah. And then all these other bits and pieces fit in around that, I'm guessing. So in addition to, that job, Stella, WP Michelle is also the podcast bar. Barista at WP to Coffee I nearly, he said to Toffee Cork, wp coffee talk.com.

[00:05:14] Nathan Wrigley: Co-founder of underrepresented in tech.com, creator of wp speakers.com, and also wp career pages.com, the executive [email protected]. That's a very important position, isn't it? Co-host of WP Motivate, which is a podcast, the co-host also of the Audacity Marketing podcast host on WP Constellations podcast author, sorry podcast, that was to do with the previous sentence.

But she's also an author and a frequent organizer and speaker at WordPress events living outside of Rochester, New York. She's an avid nature photographer and you can learn more if you wanted another URL at Meet Michelle Online. Thank you for joining us once more. My pleasure. Thank you so much. Also, joining me from good old Blighty over there is, Dave Gr we used, does anybody else use that word, Blighty?

We call England Blighty or Britain Blighty. I don't know why that is, but, no. Okay. It's new to, okay. but Dave will know, right? you've heard that word. I'm not apply to words. People call us. yeah. I'm sure there's much worse. Dave Gray. There he is. He is the man behind two handy plugins that can help web designers look after their clients.

Site owner and admin manager ensures a site's administrator emails, email address belongs to an active admin user account. This helps work towards good site governance, whilst also preventing a client from easily going rogue and locking you out by deleting. Or downgrading your admin user leaving you stuck with endless email notifications is upcoming hero service, which is what you can see on the screen.

Heads up wp. That's so easy. I got confused with that. Yeah. Heads up. WP helps protect your reputation by finding an alerting you to a ride wide range of website content issues before your client finds them. You can find him and his typically British dad joke humor on Twitter at friendly. Web guy.com. I deploy the dad joke like every few hours.

And I thorough, I think I'm the funniest man alive. And my kids just it's like tumbleweed, oh, just the groans. I know. It's embarrassing, isn't it? But yeah, I promised myself I promised my 14-year-old self that I wouldn't do that had kids. It's too much fun though, like that 14. Yeah, that 14-year-old had no idea how much fun dad jokes are.

Exactly right. And finally we're joined down there by Derek Haw. How are you doing, Derek? I'm doing great. Thanks. Yeah, nice to have you with us. Derek is the maker of Conversion Bridge, which is, new, I'm gonna say new, WordPress plugin making conversion tracking, set up a one click process for over 50 popular plugins and over 10 analytics and ad platforms like, Google Analytics for Plausible Fathom, Google Ads, et cetera.

You didn't drop the URL, so do you just wanna quickly do that for us whilst we're doing this bit? Conversion bridge wp.com. Nice and straightforward conversion bridge wp.com. Go check that out. So there's our panelists really appreciate joining us today. We'll talk a little bit more about the WordPress news from this last week in just a moment, but a few bits of fairly uninteresting housekeeping, but we've gotta do it just to make sure that it all gets done correctly.

The first thing to say is that if you are watching this and you'd like somebody else to watch it with you, this is probably the best place to go head. Head over to w builds.com/live and then send that URL to whoever you like. feel little caveats though. The platforms are closing down the APIs slowly but surely so that things like this can't get into them.

Facebook's just done it fairly recently, so really the only place to make comments is on that page. You can do it on the YouTube video as well. If you go to our YouTube channel and find it there, that'll work. But wp build.com/live has got the YouTube comments embedded on the right hand side of the, video on desktop.

But also if you don't like Google and you don't want to have a YouTube account, that's fine. go to the actual video. And at the top right is a little thing called, I don't know, live chat or something like that. It's in a little black rectangle. Click that and you can comment without being logged into anything so that People who are anti-social media and things like that, kind of makes sense. and yeah, please feel free to go and share it. We often have a few little comments coming in at the beginning, and, today is no different. If you wanna make comments, please do. It really genuinely makes the show, a lot more entertaining.

be, comedic, be, be caustic, be acerbic, whatever you like. It's all good from, and, let's start off with Lawrence. Lauren, I'm presuming this is Lawrence. He's, I'm guessing joining us from Australia. He's just saying hello. Hi there, Alan Fuller. so you'll probably be on the A 3 0 3. Did somebody make a road gag that I didn't hear earlier?

What was the, it's that, it's episode 3 0 3, so if you're going on holiday, oh, that's probably got it. this is a, road joke, in the uk honestly, way over my head because the UK is small enough. because it's probably about the size of, oh, I don't know. It's probably about the size of New York State or something like that.

maybe it's bigger than that, but it's not much bigger. Everybody knows like how to get more or less everywhere by the, so we can name all the roads. ah, and everybody has a discussion about the best way. if you tell somebody, I'm going to talk, oh, you want to take the A 3 0 6 4? No, don't do that.

Take the, and on it goes. It's, it's terribly British and frankly, terribly boring. But, thank you Alan for, punctuating it with a bit of humor. Marcus Burnett, who, who was unable to join us on the show today is saying Good morning from the road again. It is Driving to Tennessee. Always great to see these fantastic folks.

Thank you so much. Marcus joined us, fa fairly famously, a couple of weeks ago. From an airplane, which was, interesting, didn't even know that was possible. Alan is coming back to us. He says, apparently in the first World War, soldiers would pray for a blighty, oh, a wound that would get them back to Britain for treatment.

So like a minor injury, you maybe put your hand up above the parapet hoping for something to happen to your hand so that you could get sent home and there your war would be over. There you go. Catch a blighty, huh? That's great. Thank you, Alan. That's made my day. Cameron Jones has, as a fellow dad, I can confirm Dad jokes.

Not a choice, but an obligation. They yeah, true. They are true. Totally right. And, Mike Johnson joined Johnson. Sorry. Mike, he's in Lisbon, where it's 33 degrees and it is on its way to 36 degrees. We always have weather reports, don't we? And it all started with this gentleman, Peter Ingersol.

and here he comes, good morning. From currently sunny Connecticut in the Northeast US 23 degrees or 74 degrees Fahrenheit and rising. Thank you so much. and the A three, the A 3 0 3, goes past Stonehenge, so now you know. If you wanted to go to Stonehenge, take the A 3 0 3. That'll get you there.

That's brilliant. Keep it coming. That's absolutely fabulous. we could talk about arterial roads for the rest of the show if you wanted, but I suspect that we'd run out of things fairly quickly. So let's get onto word pressy stuff. That's what we're here for. Just before we begin, a couple of shout outs.

three actually, to our sponsors. Firstly, thanks to GoDaddy Pro, have been sponsoring us for absolutely ages, years and years. Real hat tip to them. Look, I've got a hat to tip and everything. but also recently joined us, blue Host and even more recently, we were joined by Omnis Send. So big thanks to GoDaddy Pro Blue host and Omnis send for keeping the lights on.

If you wanna know what we're doing and get a couple of emails each week when we release new things, put your email address in there and click subscribe. There is a no spam guarantee. I will only send you uninteresting content, not spammy content. There is a difference. okay, so that's us and let's get stuck in.

So here it, it landed. It finally happened, WordPress 6.6 came along. It felt like one of the biggest, I say this more or less every single time there's a big update. I say it is the biggest update we've had in years, but this genuinely felt like a big update. we've been through this over and over again, but I'm just gonna show you a couple of pages, which, public facing so that people who are not familiar with WordPress can get an, in an insight into it.

More design options added to block themes. simplified workflow for layouts. Oh, sorry. And a new layout for pages. And the site editor. That's pretty big. That's one of the biggest overhauls to the admin. You, I have seen in honestly, decade or more, I think, in all honesty. what else have we got? Auto updates for plugins for your peace of mind.

if your plugin is updated and something goes wrong, the idea it will offer you a. Level of security by rolling it back to the previous safe version, which is dead Cool. sync patterns, you can customize content in different ways using those. And then we've got performance and accessibility updates.

there was another piece which was basically covering the same thing, over here. I will link to all of these in the show notes, but I'll stop witching on and just say 6.6. Dave, Derek, Michelle, anything that you've, found exciting about it since you updated? I. I'm surprised was this long to get to Tommy Dorsey?

[00:14:54] Michelle Frechette: That's all I'm gonna say to start. that's one of the biggest ones I thought, man, really? We haven't had him as a patriarch of, release yet, but I'm, not a jazz fan, I've gotta say. I know the big, names in jazz, but when you're at the level he of Dorsey, he Oh, is he? Okay. that's, he's one of the big names.

Yeah. Okay. there you go. okay. Thank you. Dave, it sounded like you were gonna just interject there as well. Yeah, I was gonna say, I already found out that the plug and rollback bits work from a client's site on their staging site, I should say, had the, rollback email through so I can confirm that feature's working nicely.

[00:15:36] Dave Grey: And it does let you know when something's rolled back so you can look into it. And did it wa, was it because there was an actual fault? In other words, if you forced the change, did it break? No. Actually looked into why it broke. Yeah, basically I think that staging site, elemental Pro, that then decided to update and then failed and it rolled itself back and had the email through.

So it's ah, that's a good reason for auto updating on your staging site before you do it in your production, just to see what blows up on that side. yeah. Does improvement. Yeah, I mean it's, it is on the face of it, quite a little improvement in the, it's a kind of you'll never, hopefully ever see it in reality, but you imagine the amount of cost across the globe that it'll save and heartache and an effort that it'll save for people who, the non-technical, their website is broken, they don't really know why.

[00:16:26] Nathan Wrigley: So they've got a phone, their developer, and their developer's busy and, blah, blah, blah, and it's gonna cost them a fortune to get fixed. It. It's a minor thing, but it's also a pretty major thing for those people. In that situation, I feel, I felt that was more important than maybe we were all giving it credit for, when it was muted as a, thing which was gonna come.

[00:16:45] Dave Grey: So you've got people on either side of the fence of auto updates, make life easier versus don't auto update. But then if you've got your small site with a literal amount of traffic coming through, you just want it to be secure. And if something does fall over, it sorts itself out. 'cause if you've got the funds to get someone to look after it, then you would do.

But if you haven't, then that's next. Next best to fail safe. Yeah. Yeah. pretty neat feature. What about you, Derek? Anything that struck you? couple things. I'm curious if the plugin rollbacks, how, if there's plugins that need to be a little more conscientious of that just because of, your plugin does update to the database and maybe they add a new database table.

[00:17:24] Derek Ashauer: Oh, interesting. And then all of a sudden the files get rolled back and now you know it, I don't know. It just, I'm curious how, or it makes changes to the database to do things in that auto update and then all of a sudden now the database is in one state, but the files are in another. Sure.

That's for some people it might be a little bit more. It might not be as smooth for in some instances. I'm curious. I hadn't given that a moment's thought. I was just working on the basis of, we'll just roll back the files. But of course, yeah, if the update in the process, I don't know, came with a totally new set of tables or modified a table name or something.

[00:17:59] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. They restructured how metadata was stored or something like that, and now all of a sudden, yeah, so the rollback in that scenario could be. Like pretty catastrophically bad actually. That's interesting. Yeah. I hadn't given that thought. Yeah. So yeah, the challenge would be is a, 'cause I always think of everything as a plugin developer.

[00:18:18] Derek Ashauer: How is this going to affect me? Yeah. And then now all of a sudden you have to be like, now do I need to keep copies of data in the old, if I did something like that in a plugin, would I need to keep a copy of the old data, duplicate everything so it's in the old format in case something happens and then my plugin gets rolled back and then they don't yell at me.

Your plugin's broken. You messed everything up on my side. It's all your fault, Tim. People are quick to, Sorry. Sorry, Derek, I apologize. I thought, oh, like I said, I haven't looked into it. So think we, it was before the database migration an overlap. Tim says the auto, the auto, update rollback would occur before the database migration. So maybe that has been in fact mitigated. I hope so. Yeah.

I haven't, I didn't, I haven't tested it myself yet, yeah. Interesting. and he's got him a little bit more, let me, see if I can highlight his comment here. He says the auto rollback would occur Oh. as the fatal error would've triggered first. Oh, okay. Interesting. Thank you Tim Nash for that. Thank you Tim Nash for that.

[00:19:20] Nathan Wrigley: It's still optional too, right? So auto updates, you can still Yeah. Turn them off. So if you don't want them, you don't have to have them. Yeah, and I think I would do it on a fairly circumspect basis. that those companies who I know and I trust and. You know that's an entirely subjective measure, isn't it?

But there aren't there, there's always plugin developers who, put in the hours and there's ones that you've inherited a site or something, you're not really sure what this plugin is. Maybe, there's something to be said for those. yeah. Okay. So apart from the auto updates, there's a whole bunch of other bits and pieces.

I will link to all of this in the show notes. It was a fairly sizable release, but because we've been banging on about it, for absolutely ages, we weren't going into all the detail. Elliot's joining us though. Hi Elliot. Nice to have you with us. Sorry Michelle. Your head has gone. let me hide that and then now you're back.

Yeah. a small change, but I'm a big fan of negative Mar. Oh, alright. Yeah. Negative margins that can now be input into the ui. A nice decision, nice addition for designers. So obviously, if you know anything about CSS negative margins can allow you to like creep into other spaces. You might wanna push something up and overlap something.

yeah. Before that you couldn't put negative numbers in the ui. Could you at least, I don't think you could in the block editor. you could in like third party things like generate blocks and things like that, I think allowed you to do it probably, cadence and things like that.

But it's now part of the default. And Mike Johnson saying, yep, negative margins also improved grid block. Yeah. Yeah. Which should be minus one, which would. It should be minus one for negative. Oh ha. There's a dad joke. Exactly. That was, you took the words, right? come on Dave. That was even, I even, I could see he was so the jokingness there.

[00:21:12] Michelle Frechette: It's funny. He was so serious. It took us all a beat to figure out what he was saying. I can hear my kids totting, even though they're not even in the house. I can hear it. please. Okay. Tim. Tim is, if you dunno, Tim, he joins us re very regularly actually, and he's a, security expert. I think expert is probably underselling it.

[00:21:32] Nathan Wrigley: In all honesty. He really does know the bits and pieces about security in general, but WordPress security specifically, please, either turn off updates or turn, sorry, turn auto updates on or turn them off. Please don't selectively choose plugins to auto update that way leads to very broken sites.

Okay. Tim, I, have, I feel my knuckles have been wrapped. I will stop doing that. because that's what I was just telling everybody that I did. and Mike Johnson's, Dave, I dunno who Dave is. Who's Dave? Mike, Dave Gray. Dave Gray.

I thought it was somebody else in the comments. Sorry James. I get coat bite.

No, it was that dad joke. I blotted you out of my mind. James is joining us saying Good morning. Happy, birthday. Tim. Is it your birthday, Tim? If so, Me, Dave, Derek and Michelle are gonna sing you happy, but no, we're not. No we're not. Nobody signed up for that. I love being Mo and told to see Derek's head going, no, I'm not doing that.

No, Accidentally closed the window. That's right. Yeah. Okay, so we've got these couple of articles all about WordPress 6.6. You can go and check 'em out. I'll link to 'em in the show notes. B-B-B-B-B. This is Matt Mullenweg's blog. and he released a, very short post on the 16th of July, and it says, nice new WordPress, 6.6 is out.

it's the 50th release. I didn't know that, but that's a nice milestone. and then he says this, on the same day, people are getting hit with huge bills from Webflow. I didn't really know what to make of this, but obviously there's a bit of a hyperlink buried in there. So I clicked on the hyperlink and it took me over to a tweet by somebody, I don't know, called Nico Aria or something equivalent to that.

And and I'll just read it out and it's interesting, especially if you're in the open source space. it says. WTF, is wrong with Webflow. They're forcing me to pay $15,000 a year up from $468, a 32 per a 32 x price increase overnight. And they gave me one week to decide if I want to upgrade or move the whole failure, which is the website that he has, failure.com site to another CMS.

And then I'm gonna flip back to Matt's article be because then he carries on. I really enjoy working in open source. There is no customer centric license. There's some really fun stuff cooking. I can't wait to show you all 50 releases. Wow. No matter what happens in the world, we're just gonna keep cranking three times a year relentlessly a little better each time.

Don't believe me. Just watch. Which feels like it's a pop song or something. but anyway, so I just thought that was curious. I don't know. I could be wrong. I don't know if Matt has ever taken aim at another property, in this case Webflow before, but also I don't know anything about the price increase.

But let's just for the, sake of argument, let's assume that this Nico person, is telling the truth and the terms and conditions of changed. Maybe, maybe his usage has gone up dramatically over the year. it's just a mark of a very successful website. I don't know. But either way you can avoid that by using open source software like WordPress, for example.

And, I just thought that was curious Dave. It said, did you know something about this story? Did you, when we were talking before we hit record, it sounded like you did. Yeah, I think beforehand, I've seen a few other people talking about it, like, how is your bandwidth that high? Can't you use like a CDN in caching and things on that side?

[00:25:29] Dave Grey: And also if the plan that you are on gave you this much bandwidth and for five or six months you've used that much. Having a price increase or being adjusted to a correct plan wouldn't be too much a surprise. Then I think at the same time they announced their change in and reducing the amount of bandwidth you get on certain things as well.

So it's like a double whammy of, oh, we're giving you less by the way, we figured out you are overusing what you should be doing. Here's a big bail on that aside. So it is a bit of the person's popularity as well. And I guess, more or less, every platform's gonna do something similar, aren't they?

[00:26:03] Nathan Wrigley: if you've got any kind of, I don't know, Google photos, for example, once you hit a certain limit, you pay a little bit more. Google Drive, everything, you just have pay, pay a little bit more and Cameron hops into the comments and says, you. You can't tell me.com, so wordpress.com wouldn't do the same thing on a site that's five times their allotted bandwidth for months on end.

So Cameron, firstly is that the case? Is, was that story from Nico? Was it the fact that he was five times over his, his limit, in which case, a five x increase? I guess maybe you'd expect, but yeah. Interesting. I think I, from what I saw, a few things like that individual person has multiple sites on a Webflow account and they use, and they have thousands and thousands of webpages on it.

[00:26:48] Derek Ashauer: Kind of like a programmatic SEO type. Thing that they're doing and Webflow counts, they call 'em, what is it? Like CMS items, like custom post types. And every, you can, you get a limit of those. And so not only was it like massive bandwidth, but also how many content items on his sites as well that he had.

So he had lots of sites with, hundreds of thousands or millions of records, and then they changed their pricing tier. So that's why he's. He is the 0.1% of people who use or are building sites at that scale, on a platform. So to me it's, the lesson is if you're gonna build a site and you're gonna have a lot of content, don't build it on a platform that charges based on how much content you put on.

Yeah, that's, it's such a weird way of, it seems pretty obvious to us probably to just build it on WordPress 'cause Yeah. And there's no limit and you can go as big as you want without ever having to worry about it. but I, suppose the curious bit about this is not that pricing model. that pricing model is curious and obviously, if you intend to have a successful site, you don't really wanna be paying per post if you like.

[00:27:57] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. we know that you don't have to do that on WordPress, but also, the fact that Matt. called it out in his little post there, which I thought was interesting. He's obviously, he felt it. I dunno if that's a friend over here, Nico. I dunno if that's somebody that he knows personally or what have you.

But, yeah, in his promotional post for 6.6, he definitely took, aim a little bit, although, albeit very gently. It's hard to imagine any of Matt's good friends not being on WordPress, but it could happen. Yeah, that's a good point. I wonder if that's a, I wonder if that's a friendship breaking, thing.

I've moved to Squarespace. Can we also talk about the fact that Matt doesn't have to worry about SEO that's not 350 words. He's not optimizing for keywords. His blog is just so regularly visited. That's my goal in life. I want a blog that I don't have to worry about SEL 'cause everybody just wants to read it.

What do you make of, what do you make of the design? It feels I don't know the heritage of Matt's blog, but it feels like that might be a, theme from some way back that he's wedded to and really likes. I don't know. That's, I think he is very minimalist when it comes to design.

[00:29:05] Michelle Frechette: and I think that, the jazz and everything all fits together with that. But yeah, that's just my 2 cents. you can go and add your comments if you like. I. Anyway, it's ma tt slash 2020. Oh, that's too complicated to say. I'll put it in the show notes, then go and link to it and add your, own comments.

[00:29:24] Nathan Wrigley: A bit like our good friend Bob WP did look at that right at the front. Getting in there. okay, so 6.6 is out. and it's cheaper than Webflow apparently. that should maybe be the, slogan for 6.7 WordPress 6.7. It's cheaper than Webflow. Okay, let's move on. the train never stops, does it?

you get you, one bus comes past and no sooner has it gone past and you see another one on the horizon. Such is the case for a giant CMS like WordPress. 6.6 has just landed, but, 6.6 0.1 is already available if you want to go and test it. This is kinda like the release candidate phase. Just before we go, usually through three release candidates, something like that, just to make sure that the next version of WordPress will be stable.

And if you like testing it, don't test it on a production website is all I would say because, it's probably gonna have bugs in it. And the idea really is that you, you go and tell people about your bugs and get them squashed. But, again, I'll link to that in the show notes. I don't suppose anybody's got anything about that, do they?

No good. Let me carry on. Here we go. A few more comments. Tim's joining us again, he seems, this seems to be Matt, confused that WordPress is software, whereas Webflow is a SaaS hosting companies all have terms and conditions for bandwidth, including WordPress host. Yeah, that's a good point. what are you, basically saying there, Tim, that instead of it being directly paid to Webflow, you'll probably pay that same premium over to a hosting company?

Depending on which one you go for. They will have terms and conditions as well, which monitor how much traffic you've got. Okay. and Cameron's clarifying, thank you Cameron, for clearing it all up. His plan allowed 400 gigabytes of bandwidth and he was using five times that consistently. That's terabyte of band, terabytes of bandwidth.

Bandwidth, which is insane numbers. Yeah, that is insane. Wow. 400 gigabytes. that's a healthy amount, isn't it? And if he's five Xing that he's doing something right. He must have deep pockets if, he's getting that kind of traffic. James joining us, James Lau, thank you very much. I once worked with a startup that used Webflow.

They require you to pay more for content blocks or containers. Just as Derek was saying. Also according to the business rep, it would've cost us up to 20 K for an enterprise license. What does enterprise get you? I wonder? probably better SLAs than, yeah. Exhibitions a shiny badge on your website in the bottom right hand corner or something saying, I am enterprise.

I've got too much money to spend. That's right. Yeah. Little badge like that. that was back in 2023, so actually not that long ago. 2020 grand. 20 grand for whatever that enterprise thing is. I'm no, I'm sure people pay it, so it's probably worth it. Matt's blog shows up in the WP admin dashboard too.

Ah, true. I had, I don't look at the. Greeting screen in the dashboard very often. So no. Do you switch that one off as soon as you install a WordPress website? Get rid of the what, the what's happening section, the news section. That's one of the ones I don't switch it off, but if I'm logging in, I'm going in for a purpose and so I'm like immediately going to that page or post or whatever.

[00:32:42] Michelle Frechette: You're not looking there. Yeah. Okay. And Tim's back. 400 gigabytes is a lot. Is a lot. it depends, Tim, on how high quality your camera is, if you've got like the, are they animated gifts? Hubble Space Telescope, quality of camera? It's probably three or something like that. 20.

[00:33:03] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, my mouse is really playing up. And then Patricia's joining us. Thanks Patricia. I had a podcast chat with Patricia this, last week, which is really nice. 20 K per year. Per month. yeah. So the article, Nico said, let me just pop it back up on the screen. This chap said it went up, it's per annum, $15,000 per year up from 468.

But it sounds like from everything that's going on in the comments, it sounds like maybe there's quite a lot of justification for this. The person is using tons more, than their plan actually allows, because they got lots of cats. That's what I've learned. Nico likes cats. Actually, I have a cat called Nico.

That's a nice coincidence, right? okay, let's move on. Not that one. We've done that one little promotion time. if you are in the London area, actually. No, if you are even fairly close to London, why not come and join us on the 25th of July, which is three, let me count. it's, yeah, it's three or four days away from now.

It's Thursday, basically this coming Thursday, 25th of July from six 30 until 9:00 PM It's an in-person event. It's one of the few things going on. I know there's Word Camp Whitley Bay, and maybe there's some other stuff going on, but it's one of the few things in the UK going on live at the moment. It's, in London, the London Bridge area.

It's adjacent to that and it's at the Klaviyo offices and the whole thing kicks off from 6:30 PM I'm gonna be heading down there, if you wanna. I, don't know if the tickets have all sold out yet. I think it may be the case that they have, but, you can always register for another one, another event.

And we're also always looking out for speakers at these events, and you can apply to speak by clicking this little button here. yeah. Dave, where are you? Are you anywhere near London? Can we expect you? I looked in how long it's actually take to get there, 'cause of public transport and bits, if we take about two hours to do a round trip from there, which is less than ideal.

[00:35:09] Dave Grey: Yeah. It's a, especially there's summer holidays coming up as well. It's great. I'm off for jolly into London for the evening. You can do with the kids. I'm, I, my trip is, my round trip is nine hours. For a two and a half hour event. I am questioning my sanity, but I'm gonna go anyway. Cameron said, did I see something about there being another, oh, crikey, Cameron.

[00:35:33] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that was a story. It's a storm in a tea cup, yes. Is the answer. I won't go into it, but another, another WordPress event came up. So this is the WordPress London Meetup, and another one started called the London WordPress Meetup. And, but that now appears to have gone the, the way of the dodo.

I could be wrong, but it felt like at the end of last week, the person who'd set that up made the, realization that maybe there was a conflict of interest there. So anyway, so hopefully there's, that's nice and straightforward. From now on, this is at Wpdn uk. You got anything going on where you are, Michelle or Derek, anything happening in your neck of the woods on a sort of regular basis?

These meetup things that in the UK have just died? We have had a meetup in Rochester, starting in 2020. We switched to online and we're still going, first Monday of every month. We missed once or twice in that time, but we have not stopped having meetups online in our online. Yep. And as a matter of fact, like Cameron Jones often attends my meetup online 'cause it's his morning and our night.

[00:36:45] Michelle Frechette: I get several people from Australia and people from all over the United States and Canada have started to attend our meetup, more than there are Rochester that are attending the Rochester meetup. take that what you will What? And then we have, our, we have a word camp coming up this fall too.

[00:37:02] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, nice. And what, kind of, you don't have to share numbers, but are you, did, the attendance fluctuate? Has it gone up or down? Oh yeah. Has it stayed steady or. It's definitely gone down, but we tried to do one or two things in person and nobody showed up. So this is the best way to do it right now.

[00:37:19] Michelle Frechette: so we have about, I would say we have an average 12 to 20 people Okay. That come to our online meetups, which I mean, we were having maybe 25 to 30 before, so I. It's not that far off, No, it's gone down a little bit. What about you, Derek, where you are? Anything going on or has it all gone quiet?

[00:37:36] Derek Ashauer: I'm in Colorado and there's a Denver one, and it's the same. It's a Zoom online, only one. I've gone to a couple, but yeah, I won't, I'll leave it at that. Let's just say it. Okay. Say no more. but yeah, WPDN uk, if you fancy attending that, I think the, the ticketing that they can provide is 60 people and, I think they, at the minute, I think they're selling out.

[00:38:06] Nathan Wrigley: So that's a nice, healthy number in a space. it's, it, feels like a fairly big thing. It's not there's sort of six of you sitting in a corner or anything like that. So definitely worth checking out. And if you can't make it this time, it's the third Thursday. Every month. And if you, I don't know, go here, click apply to speak, you can see all of the dates just down there.

so if you do have an intuition that you'd like to speak, you can see that there are some gaps here where they're not in, red, and you can apply for those different dates. Couple, three in fact have got, a WooCommerce focus. So if that's your thing, you wanna speak about WooCommerce, you can see the dates there.

Okey dokey. Let's move on. Now I confess this one got translated by Google Translate, so I don't know, how accurately I will be saying this 'cause it was in Spanish, when I first pulled this page up. So this is happening in Valencia on the 28th. So six days from now. no, sorry, I apologize.

It's the 28th of the ninth. I always get confused by this orientation of dates when you've got the month first and then the. The date. Second. We do it the other way around in the uk. Yeah. so the 28th of the ninth, 2024, WordPress Diversity Day. I'll just read the translation. Let's build a more diverse community in, in, the WordPress community.

Create a space for meeting and celebrating diversity within the WordPress community, promoting a culture of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for all people. And obviously we, knew what was going on there. The day is, as I said, it's the 28th of the ninth, and there's a little bit more here. events wordpress.org/valencia/ 2024 slash diversity date.

Links in the show notes. You can buy your tickets. They're looking for sponsors and speakers. and they soon will be looking for volunteers, and it's gonna be held at a place called Comple. I'm not even gonna try and say that. Complex s sporty U culture, pina. I think I probably butchered that horribly.

so if you're in Spain and you're fancy doing that, Michelle, is this something you are aligned with in any way? Do you know anything more about this than just the I This is, in your notes, this is the first time I'm hearing about it, so definitely gonna investigate it, but, I am not going to be able to attend if it's in Spain.

No, but it would be fun to at least, be able to help boost their, yeah, their, their calls. we like to, we like to promote these things no matter where in the world they are. But a apologies to the absolutely who've got this site. If you, if your translations got completely booked. I actually was editing a podcast the other day.

I recorded a podcast with, two fine people at WordCamp in Torino. And, one of the participants in the interview was deaf and they had their phone on the desk facing them, and I was speaking my questions and they were reading out the translate and it was Google Translate and I've never, ever, used it in my life.

But because I was so, profoundly interested in it, the lady turned it round and I just started talking at it and it was. Utterly, unbelievably accurate. I've got a fairly thick accent, I think, it's a definite UK twinge to my accent, but I threw some weird stuff at it and it just totally got it first time.

So anyway, it's pretty amazing. Yeah. it gave me confidence in things like this, an automated tool where you press a button and the website gets translated. I, have, I really didn't know how accurate it was, but having played with that. yeah, and I, you could use the camera in the Google Translate app as well.

Yeah. Which is what I, as, I was translating menus in, in Italy so that I could see what does that mean? What am I, great, what am I ordering? What am I eating? Yeah. You can basically spot a foreigner these days, can't you? Because when there's a menu out, they've got, like the cam, you got a mobile phone about six inches above the menu, facing directly down.

And it's pretty cool because not only does it, not only does it translate, but it tries to get the correct font and it tries to map it exactly over where the words were. So that it covers them up. So it's not like just translating in and then just dumping it into another UI so that you can read it out, And if you move your camera a little bit, the words track around it's total voodoo. It's the sort of stuff that I watched on Star Trek when I was a little boy and thought that will never happen now, but also I don't think that's the only clue that you are a foreigner when you travel Nathan or me either.

[00:42:41] Michelle Frechette: I think having our phone out is probably not the key indicator, but That's true. That's true. There's a few other cues, isn't there? anything anybody wants to add to that? Cameron Jones. Yeah, you've I've done that one. Sorry, Cameron. oh, excited about it. Elliot. Thank you. WP Richmond. Sorry I keep hiding your face, Michelle, I apologize.

[00:43:04] Nathan Wrigley: WP Helt has an in-person, has an in-person a couple of months ago, 15 people, trying to get some sponsorship to restart our local with more regular in-person Meet Ops Elliot, have you got a URL for that we can promote if there's people watching this who have sponsorship capabilities? so WP Helt, I'm guessing is Cheltham.

Elliot, tell us more, because that's really interesting. and it's, oh, okay. It's Google Translate, which, oh, naughty. Google it, it inverted the date in the, okay. So in Spain, they use the variation of the date that we do as well. da Dave, Derek, anything about diversity day before we crack on? No, it's all good to encourage.

Yeah. Okay. Nice. Alrighty. Let's go here. Word, camp Canada. I, didn't go, it was a very, long way away. I was a little bit nervous for Word Camp A as they called it, because a few weeks ago I looked actually more I don't know, six weeks ago or something like that. And the, ticket sales at that point were, not going as well as hoped.

I think it's fair to say. I think they were hoping for much larger numbers as. Thankfully, it would appear that between then and the actual event, a lot more people, attended. And this article is just a little personal reflection from Sean Hooper, who was one of the, the organizers. And I won't go into it, but I'll link to it in the show notes because we've got somebody here who went themselves, which is Michelle, but I think it topped out about 300.

Did it feel like, did it feel like a, an event that was, I don't wanna say worthwhile, but do you know what I mean? Did the numbers justify the effort for you? It did, it was great. It's a four and a half hour drive from me for, from Rochester, New York up to Ottawa. So that's not big at all. So we, a coworker and I, we drove up and it was wonderful, getting to see people and, they had a contributor day, which, granted was small.

[00:45:06] Michelle Frechette: There was maybe, 50 people who participated, but a lot of work actually got done that day, which was awesome. And then some really amazing talks. They really focused a lot on indigenous peoples. And they asked us speakers to have a land acknowledgement before we started our talks. And so we did that.

And talked about whose land it was before it was quote unquote discovered by colonizers, right? And those kinds of things. and as, somebody who was giving a talk about underrepresented in tech, I really wanted to drive home the part that, this we're all on stolen land over here.

It was all colonized because it was, owned by indigenous peoples first. And so we did that. And then there was lots of sponsors. The food was the best food I think I've ever had at camp. Oh, far none. It was phenomenal. it was a mostly accessible event. The second floor was not accessible. If you had to use stairs, it was only stairs.

so I wasn't able to access like the green room. Speakers, speaker, speaker and the quiet room. But that was just a small thing. Everything else was fully accessible and the team, very small organizing team pulled off an amazingly large event. So kudos to all of them. It was phenomenal. the names here.

[00:46:21] Nathan Wrigley: if this is all there was, as I say all, I don't mean that in the way it might come out. it was, yeah. Yeah. So Hanta, Matt, apologies, I don't know the names, surnames, but Shanta, Matt, Jamie, Kira, Paul, Rick, Gina, and Ryan. So what's that? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8 people. pulling off an event of that magnitude, did you, Michelle, did you get any sense?

'cause obviously a lot of these events are attended by sponsors and the sponsorship. Piece is pretty crucial to make these events happen in that you, you basically just can't afford to make it happen without the sponsors. Any thoughts on that? did you know if you've got 300 people attending and basically did you have any intuitions about whether the sponsors thought that was enough and whether they do it again or anything like that?

[00:47:10] Michelle Frechette: looking at it from, as a potential sponsor next year for, stellar wp, I would say that I don't know how the sponsors this year felt. I would think, 300 is decent, but sometimes you'd like to see more, of course, especially with the costs and things as they are in today's market. but it is an event expecting that it will grow from the success of this year.

This is an event that I would suggest that my team at least looks at sponsorship for next year, so I would say. I thought of it positively from a potential sponsors. Yeah. Yeah. I guess having one under the belt really helps. Patricia's joined us, and I know Patricia's involved in the community a lot.

[00:47:50] Nathan Wrigley: Tendency, tendency everywhere like this, it seems that people wait until the last minutes to buy their tickets to any event. Okay. Can I just say 100%? They also wait to apply to speak. I had an event last Friday. We had Stellar Spark, which we can talk about later if you want. But, I, had it out there for weeks and weeks and yet it was in the last week that I got over 400 signups and It's just the way that people do things now. They just wait till the last minute. Am I gonna be available? All of those things. and then you end up with, over 400 signups in the last five days. When the last five weeks before that you're going, is this gonna work? Nice. So how did it go? How did it go?

We, featured it in the, run up to, but we, we appreciate that. Yeah. No, it's okay. How did it go? Yeah, you happy with it? It was, I was very happy with it. really great speakers. lots of engagement from the community, people who are watching the talks and things like that. And, of course, we recorded everything.

[00:48:47] Michelle Frechette: It's all gonna be available on, the seller YouTube and blog. Once I have time to go in and slice and dice up all of those, as when you put on a big event and you run an eight, nine hours of YouTube, you have to then. Take that nine hours and chop it up into nine different hours. And so that's gonna be my project this week is going to be doing that.

But I'm very excited about it. So did you, was it all one live stream then? It was from start to finish it was just one giant YouTube long video. Wow. yes. Wow. Two of them actually. 'cause we had two tracks. Yeah. But Josepha gave an amazing, keynote, which was awesome. We had a nice, smattering of, diversity and topics, which I was really excited about.

So we had people, everything from SEO to marketing to. I can't even think right now, images and everything else. Like it was just, I was very, pleased with the way it all, the way it all happened. And I, if there's topics that you wanted to see, I'm gonna have 'em out there this week. So anybody's eligible and available to watch them.

[00:49:45] Nathan Wrigley: Did you do it with a platform like this? Did you use some sort of video platform? Streamy Yard? I used Stream Idea, so yeah, more or less the same sort of idea. Okay. That's interesting. congratulations. Thank you. Very, thank you. Thank you for doing that. Cameron's making a point about these same things.

He says, low price points also contribute to last minute sign ops. If ticket costs were higher, people would plan further in advance. Yeah. I wonder about things like Word Camp Europe, whether or not you'd get 3000 people paying. That kind of money. It's interesting. You obviously do get it when the price is low.

blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Patricia also says, for what I have seen, it's worse since the pandemic and not easy for organizers. I a hundred percent agree. That's what demoralizing feeling when you put an event on and put blood, sweat, and tears into it and not many people show up. Must be yeah.

What's interesting is, so I've been to the last three word, camp Montclair's and the one right after lockdown, like when we first started coming back, I had a lot of people, 'cause it was literally like the first word, camp in the United States after we were allowed to have them in person again. It was like 150 people.

[00:50:50] Michelle Frechette: The next year it was down below a hundred, and then this year was back up to, I would say like 120. So I think we see a little bit of a dip and things are starting to come back. Now people are starting to have a comfort level and think about travel again. Nice. and then Marcus, who's obviously with GoDaddy, says we at Go.

[00:51:07] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So Marcus, you were there sponsoring the event, right? Yes. so back to Word Camp Canada, not stellar. Yes. we, GoDaddy felt it was worth being there as sponsors. Oh, that's good to hear. Okay. So maybe the future of the event is not in question. And Patricia said she in, she saw some of the Stellar Spark sessions.

Congratulations. Thank you. Congratulations. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Nice. Okay. And no. Alright. this was there a little bit, your court? I did. You did? Yeah. You're back. Okay. I'm back in the room. Yeah. I dunno, maybe my son is, my son's on holiday and so the computer and gaming is out and, it's all happening.

He's got every which computer. Switch Taking up your bandwidth. Yeah. He's using up my band. He should be at school, and he is using up my bandwidth. Naughty boy. Okay. This one is in your wheelhouse again, Michelle. this is the WP Community Collective, and it was a press release that came out. Oh, more or less, exactly A week ago.

The WP Community Collective announced his first cohort for incentivizing DEIB in wp. I'll just read it. the Quickest WP Community Collective is pleased to announce the first cohort of participants in its new program, incentivizing, DEIB. In wp, the organizers of the inaugural word Camp Canada took an active approach to DEIB with multiple sessions and even the opening keynote presentation all focused on DEIE.

DEIB issues. I find that so hard to say. The WPCC is proud to support the work of two of the individuals who participated and they are, I'm gonna say Megan Van Haren, but I dunno if you pronounce it as Megan or not. And Niasha Green, you can see there little potted biographies there and then there's more about the program here.

Did you want any add anything about that, Michelle? I just think every time we have an opportunity to support underrepresented speakers and organizers to WordPress events that we should, if we can, if we have the ability to do we should absolutely help these people attend. it's. It's the work I do with underrepresented in tech and the fact that so many times underrepresented people are making less money, they're working more than one job to cobble things together sometimes, and being able to support without having to harm them financially, I think is really, important.

[00:53:30] Michelle Frechette: I've been the recipient of things like that before where I couldn't attend something without the, without help from the community. So I know how much it means to be able to be supported into an event like that. So if you have an opportunity to donate to the WP Community Collective to help more people attend events in the future, please do.

[00:53:48] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. Okie dokie. again, links in the show notes. Let's head it was staying there seems to be loads of event stuff this week. I don't quite know why that is. but Word Camp 2025, your Word Camp Europe 2025, though I dunno if you caught this story a couple of weeks ago, but, Shahar and Jewel, who's from WP Manage Ninja, they have, a form plugin and a CRM and loads of different things.

they're really keen to be, in attendance at the events. I dunno if they do sponsorships, but they certainly send, a crew of people, they go to as many of these things as possible. And, he made the point that WordCamp Europe in 2025 actually crosses the boundaries of a really significant public holiday.

if you are, if you're a Muslim, obviously that spreads throughout a whole load of different countries and he likened it to being an, being, putting the event on during Christmas. Basically the importance of that holiday is e extremely profound for that little, for little gosh. It's like enormous, the second biggest religion on earth I is my understanding.

and so it's really gonna make it much, much more difficult or uncertain or, I imagine in some cases just not possible for a whole s swat of people to attend. It's actually happening between the fifth and 7th of June, 2025. jewel. He likes to be called Jewel, or at least that's what he said to me.

He made a plea that could the date be changed 'cause he would like to bring a team to go to the event. Anyway, so the team took this on board and this is the, piece in response to that. And essentially it boils down to this, unfortunately, the company, I'm gonna say the company, it says here, the one that we used, the company, the calendar that they were using Calendar.

Was it not a company or something? we used the word House, European host City selection committee. Okay. anyway, yeah, that's fine. Unfortunately, whatever they used didn't include the 2025, dates for the, how do you say it, Michelle again? I or ad her apologies if I butchered that name. and they didn't, they basically just didn't see that, event coming.

So they made attempts to contact the venue and say, is there any wiggle room here? But you can imagine an event of the size of Word Camp Europe and the kind of venue that they need. It's, it's just gonna be solid books, isn't it? And that is in fact the case. however,

contracts.

[00:56:34] Derek Ashauer: So many games going on over there. I know. I don't know. So I'll jump in and say that, we did discuss this last week on Underrepresented in Tech, our podcast, and, my, partner there, Samah Nasser, she said she does the research, she's the research girl, that there are 8 billion people in the world and 1.2 billion of them are Muslim.

[00:56:58] Michelle Frechette: And so it's a huge percentage of the world that this affects. and it is akin to having this over, a Christmas holiday for example. And It's just one of the things that's really difficult. Yeah. and it's definitely was not intentional and I know that there, next year or the year after, we'll be looking at different dates, et cetera.

but I think it's good that people call it out in a very positive way. So nobody was attacking and it was an opportunity to just educate people about how we can do better and how we could be more inclusive that way. let's hope Nathan comes back to his own podcast. I have no control over on the screen.

We'll have to make sure that somebody else also, there he is. He's back. we continued without you, what, do you know what was really interesting there? So a, I've got a flaky internet connection obviously today, which, which is gonna annoy me when I've got off the call. There's gonna be some angry words, but, but also I just kept on talking.

[00:58:05] Nathan Wrigley: I just kept going. I okay. I took over. I took over and we had a full conversation. Where did we get to? Where did you get to? I talked about how we discussed this on underrepresented in tech last week and how there are 8 billion people in the world and 1.2 billion of them are Muslim and practice the Islamic faith.

[00:58:25] Michelle Frechette: And so we really wanted to talk about the fact that, that yes, it was an oversight, it was not intentional. we're we, me and Samah from underrepresented in tech? And then there was lots of conversations happening on the post that we put out about our podcast episode. people grateful that, that organizations like yours, like mine are actually bringing more light to it.

jewel wrote the post, but if we didn't also share it, it would be hard for anybody to know. It was happening, but also nobody's blaming. We're all just hoping that in the future it gets better. And I see Patricia in the comments saying, yes, it's very sad. And yes, we're, in that post and other places that there's other calendars that will come into play to make sure that we don't have events overlapping like this again.

No Nathan's been hit by CrowdStrike. I have no idea. I have no idea. I have a relentlessly reliable internet connection, which is it's interesting when stuff like that doesn't work. How much you don't take it, how much you take it for granted. Do you know what I mean? It's like when you turn the tap on that one day in a decade when no water comes out, you're suddenly like, what the heck?

[00:59:36] Nathan Wrigley: No. What? and it was just like that. There. I think I've done, I've done this show 303 times and I don't, think I've had a single dropout, in that time. So it'll happen again in a few moments. I'm pretty sure I don't, I'll keep talking. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I dunno if you made the same point as me, but I was making the point that, that essentially they, they cannot reorganize it because the venue Yes.

Is booked and they've signed a bunch of contracts, so Yeah, that's right. The way, that's where this story ends basically. yeah. Anybody want to jump in on that? I just wanna say, if you call something out in a positive light and ask for things to be better in the future and things get better in the future, that's how we do it properly, right?

[01:00:18] Michelle Frechette: That's, there's no vitriol, there's no, he said, she said, it's none of that kind of thing. It's a, Hey, we just wanna make sure that this doesn't happen again. And then the team says, we have put things in place so that it doesn't happen again. That's how we get better as a community. that's one comment to say it moves 10 days every year.

[01:00:38] Dave Grey: So it's not like Christmas and Easter is pretty much around the same time, so it's just Yeah. Yeah. They have a, lunar calendar, don't they? Whereas we have a solar calendar, so the months are set around. Easter is also lunar, though. Easter can be in March or April. Yeah. it's the same kind of thing.

[01:00:56] Michelle Frechette: It does move around. You just have to be aware of it when you're looking at things and having that calendar that. Pushed all faiths in it will be helpful. I'm gonna push back on that because Easter, oscillates, it goes forwards a bit backwards a bit, whereas the, right, but it's never the same date.

[01:01:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. But whereas the, is the, like the Jewish calendar and the years Islamic calendar literally goes round our year. no, I understand. It could be like, I don't know, February one time and then, six years later it could be in, I don't know, June or something like that. yeah. And just popping this on the screen, Patricia says there was a calendar in the community team resources, the event organizer handbook.

And unfortunately this was not complete and it didn't and didn't list it. The community team has now updated the resources in the handbook. It's unfortunate that nobody contributed earlier to say the calendar's resource was not a good one. And the committee used the community resource. And then Ali, hello Ali joining us.

thank you Patricia, for all that you did. I'll be there anyway. we'll just call the FAM from bar. is that like a private comment, do you think maybe that we've stumbled across? It doesn't, no. I think it's, they're saying that they're going to attend anyway, and even though it's a family holiday from Basel, they'll call their family to wish them happy holidays and then back toward camp.

Great, thank you. Easter is lunar. How is it Lunar if it doesn't move throughout the year? doesn't it, isn't it solar because it's just an arbitrary date set in the calendar that they move backwards and forwards? No, it's absolutely has. So is it, lunar but it's bound to a particular solar month or a solar time of year?

We shouldn't get into this. This is gonna totally derail us. I'll look it up and I'll share some resources with you after the show. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. That's just not the point of this podcast at all. I want to thank Shahar for respectful communication and not blaming anyone. it's exactly like that.

which one is it exactly? okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave the comments there. Tell, can somebody just in the comments tell us how Luna Calendars work and solar calendars work? I it Google it. It's first Sunday after the full Moon. Say again? It's the first Sunday after Full Moon. So what is, ask a and I'll just read his story.

[01:03:17] Dave Grey: Okay. It's the, first Sunday. Oh yeah. Alan says after, yeah, after the full moon, after the spring equinox. Okay. but the spring equinox is a solar event. I don't know. But yes, this is still based on full moons though. So it's still based on lunar activity. I think it's the juxtaposition of solar and lunar.

[01:03:40] Nathan Wrigley: Now we've really gone meta, right? I'm stepping. Yeah, exactly. I'm stepping away from this problem. Alright. it's above my favorite. What's your next tab? Yeah, exactly, And actually it's a really nice one and it's a two minute YouTube video for you to watch. This is I'm not gonna put it on the screen 'cause it's, you can do it in your own sweet time.

But, if you're just curious about how the WordPress community works in different parts of the world, this is really worth a watch. As I said, it's two minutes long and it's a highlight video of, the Uganda website project competition from 2024. We featured it on the podcast a couple of weeks ago when it was just out there as a webpage.

And then, they put together this video and IJI just love this kind of stuff where you just get an insight into a, community, a part of the world where you never normally would. So I'll put a link into the show notes. You can see if you're watching this, you can go and Google it right away. highlights video, Uganda website projects competition 2024, from the WordPress Uganda community.

And it's pretty heartwarming in all honesty. And, they've got no comments at the moment, so get in there and, and improve that. So there's nothing really to add to that. I just thought that was nice. Okay, here's some news, two companies that I've heard of, but one that I know nothing about. WP Engine, a pretty giant WordPress managed hosting company.

I, don't know, on what sort of scale they are, but it certainly seems from all the bits and pieces that I've seen at sponsored events and things there. One of the big ones, they have acquired a SaaS platform called Nitro Pack. And this is something that I've heard of but never really explored, but the, usual cavi emptor apply, this is a PR release so it's very promotional.

but it just basically says that they have acquired Nitro Pack an all in one SaaS solution for improving speed and performance metrics Inc. Include including core web vitals. The fact that I've heard about it and I'm so doggedly interested in WordPress, I dunno if they've got a plugin or what, but, anyway, I thought I'd mention that if more acquisition in this sort of WordPress space, why would WP Engine want to buy a SaaS product that speeds up website?

Why wouldn't they want a WordPress solution? I don't know. That seems curious. Anybody got a thought on that? Ni go. From my understanding, they W Engine has used Nitro Pack for some of their tool internal, when you log into your dashboard, that gives you some information about your website and stuff like that.

[01:06:13] Derek Ashauer: So I could log into my WP Engine account, I can see, oh, my site has a really good rating. Here's where some problems are. Here's how you can prove it, stuff like that. So it sounds like they're just gonna, okay, so because they've been using Nitro Pack for a while and now when you say they've been using it, it's just to give recommendations to say that there are issues with your site when you log in.

So it's like a value added benefit. By having WP Engine, you get these extra notes to saying, Hey, your website's kind of slow. Here's some ways to maybe make it faster. so instead of paying Nitro Pack to use a service, they were just like, we're just gonna eat you up. And you are oh, I do have, I got this right Then Derek, so is it part of the WP Engine sort of admin panel, if If you're a, if you're a paying customer for WP admin, it will give you nitro pack suggestions. Okay. I understand. that makes much more sense in that case, I guess it would need to be, so they'll go out there, scrape your website, give you some suggestions, and then obviously. You can go and find your, WordPress solution for that.

[01:07:17] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Thank you. I'm gonna drag it straight back to Lunar and Solar because that's what this podcast is actually about. And, so Alan's, I hope Alan's confirming it for us. He says it's a solar and lunar hybrid. I. so there, now we've got it figured. And Jess Frick says w Never heard of them. Oh, never heard of them.

WP Engine. Never heard of them. Press Pressable. she wants to write the word Pressable, but she's, she didn't, but, Jess Frick was on last week's show, and she works for Pressable, which, gets, mentioned in the same breath as things like WP Engine, and Courtney's joining us to say that she's a little bit late because Mondays, yeah, no, the failing.

Thank you very much. Anyway, so if you're a WP Engine user, I guess you won't see any changes. Maybe you will, but, I guess WP Engine won't be needing to pay for that particular thing anymore. anything from on that, Dave, before we move on? I'm just going back to lunar cycle thing. So you've gotta call this episode, this lunar cycle in WordPress.

Oh, no. What? Okay, let's put it down this lunar cycle in WordPress. Okay. That's, my contribution. That's in the mix. That is in the mix. Thank you very much. okay, let's move on. Now, this is curious, I dunno if you follow this, there's so many plugins in the WordPress space. This is an interesting little story in the, there's a, I'm gonna call it a block suite.

I dunno if that accurately describes it, but it was called it, it is, was called quickly spelt in a really curious way. C-W-I-C-L-Y and it gained traction in quite a few different places. I think in the automatic CSS community, there's a product by Kevin Geary called automatic CSS, and I think he had some sort of relationship, his, automatic CSS worked with quickly.

Anyway, it gained a lot of popularity. And then, and then a little while ago, I'm gonna make it up five, six months ago, the founder founders, singular, plural, I don't know, they decided to get rid of the plugin, to stop working on it entirely and just mothball the whole project and pointed out on social media of memory serve that, that there was just too much going on.

like personal attacks, things like that, which is, pretty hard to hear. we, I think we, in the WordPress community, we like to. Think of ourselves as a little bit nicer than that, but of course, that's not always the case. So decided to mothball the project, took the PR hit from that, and I just assumed, that's the end of that.

Then we'll never hear about that. And yet here we are. Discourse do quickly.com, the future of quickly, and, the, founder, Louis Lewis, Louis, I dunno, says hello, quickly, will be, coming to the WordPress plugin directory soon. We hope, as already discussed, there must be further discussions above this bug fixes potential security patches, et cetera.

And WordPress compatibility will continue to be addressed with quickly making its way into the directory. We also plan a few more features, improvements. Also, there's a linked page to this where they go into a little bit more detail. Lewis goes point by point and addresses all of the different things that have happened.

And, he, people are making comments and then he, gives his rebuttal and what have you. But I just thought, what, what, would, you make of this if this was a plugin that you had used? And they publicly said, that's the end of that, where stopping it entirely, like we're just gonna completely stop working on it.

And then a few months later, come back now, before, I think it was for profit. I dunno if they had anything in the repo, but now they definitely do. And I think they've got a pivot on how they're gonna make money out of it. But do I, I don't mean to be harsh, I really don't. But do you not see that as a fairly catastrophic foot in mouth episode?

Really? What do you think anybody? I, can't imagine anyone who builds sites for clients or has a site that they rely on for making money in any way would ever use a tool like that after knowing that, I, there's no way. Yeah, you can't, I, you're not gonna build something. Especially, someone who's building client sites, especially, you're not gonna build your whole foundation.

[01:11:51] Derek Ashauer: 'cause we usually build a workflow around using one specific tool. Whatever page builder you end up using, you use pretty much the same one or speed of build. So I'm not gonna build a hundred client sites and then just, oh my God, now it's gone. I, there's no way I would, IJI just, yeah. There's no way Derek, JI I'm not gonna ask you to be more candid than you want to be, but have, has there ever been a moment in your sort of development career, specifically in the WordPress plugin space where you've looked at, you looked in the mirror and thought, plumbing, this is hard work, and, thought about throwing in the towel, but then didn't execute on that because you knew on some level, that literally would, there's no coming back from that.

[01:12:33] Nathan Wrigley: 'cause it feels like you don't just take that one plugin down. It feels like there's a reputational damage, which is bigger than that. Because let's say you took one of your plugins down in the way that they did. Yeah. I'm forever not just gonna associate the plugin with that. I'm gonna think, oh, that was Derek did that.

Yeah. so I dunno if that, I dunno if that's something that you've ever encountered or, had to mothball a project and then did it in a different way. If you've got anything, great. If not, don't worry. We'll move on. I've never had to, I've had the thought probably 10 times a day. Yeah.

[01:13:08] Derek Ashauer: 'cause I'm a plugin developer, I'm a business owner. So Yeah. I've thought of throwing in the towel 'cause this stuff's hard. so yeah. But, but at the end of the day, you just, it's what you do, you keep going at it. I will say I've never, I've always run across, I won't say I always, I have run across some people where have given me some really harsh feedback and, but I've been doing this for 20 plus years now, so I know how to just let things roll off my back at this point.

but, it can be hard to hear something that you've worked on a lot and have someone say something negative about it. so I understand. To, from, I understand how someone could get to that point, but I also, but I'm also on the other side, and if someone closed down something I was trying to build a business on, there's no way I could rely on that person or that company again to.

Continue building client sites or build, use it as a way to build a business upon. there's just no way. I think that's a really interesting point that you made though, that, you've maybe had those thoughts before and you've also drawn out there that you get, you can get some fairly unexpected and possibly profoundly, alarming comments that just come your way on social media that you didn't expect.

[01:14:30] Nathan Wrigley: And the, impact of that. I'm sure we've, all of us at some point had something come across our social media that sort of just made us pause and stop and everybody's a different character, aren't they? Some people could, it's like water off a doc's back. It's yeah, it wasn't, I am not gonna take any notice of that, or it wasn't personal or whatever.

But depending on who you are and how you interact with those kind of things, it might be that, that's just the way you wanna take it. But I guess if you're gonna do it in a public arena. You do pull the drawbridge off a bit behind you, don't you? And you make it, you're definitely gonna make it a little bit more difficult for people to, I don't know, invest their time, effort, and money in your, project.

Dave, any thoughts on that Same set of questions really for, I gave Derek, but Yeah. Yeah, pretty much on the plugin side of things aren't like minuscule compared to that. But yeah, on the whole, if. I've been doing sites and have the rug pulled out from under, you had to rebuild clients sites. Then it's oh, by the way, we're back in business.

[01:15:29] Dave Grey: Start using that. Then I'll be like, no, I might just at most might play with it to see what might have been missing out on that side. But yeah, for anything that you're actually gonna rely on that you couldn't then spend more than like a day or two to rebuild. If it's like a hobby project on that side, then it's not a case of it's the only thing you can use.

If you literally had a monopoly on this particular plugin or something on there that was irreplaceable, think, oh, I can go back to doing that. But one of the plus sides would WordPress, you can swap to. Many different alternatives on that side. yeah. I don't understand the full reasons why they left on that side to come back.

You'd want a lot more reassurance that it wasn't gonna happen again, or the whole thing was then gonna be open. So if they did need to pull back, then other people could then jump in on that side, which, if it's on the repo, yeah, in theory it is out there that other people could do. But yeah, I'd still be a bit cautious to say the least on that side.

[01:16:25] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it's curious, isn't it? We'll wait and see how that story develops, the intention of an episode like this is not to, denigrate those people. I, and I, feel maybe I did do a little bit of that over the last minute, so that isn't my intention. I hope that it works out for you.

I hope that it works and that you manage to be successful with it, but it will be interesting to see whether there is a sort of backlash, whether people can put their trust in it. So the, story that is probably the biggest story of the week has actually got nothing to do with WordPress, but it's definitely technology related.

We'll just finish on this one. Oh, gee. so thi this is, I dunno if this affected you in your part of the world, but, I genuinely had. Almost no interaction with this at all. I was, I was at my computer, I think it was Saturday, and I got a message from Mark West Guard from WS form, and it was about, I don't know, it was about nine in the morning in the uk.

So where Mark is, it must have been like three in the morning. And I just said to him, what, why, what are you doing up? Go, to bed. And he said, I'm watching this CrowdStrike story unfold. I'm like, what? I don't even know what's going on. So then I opened up the almost every newspaper that I could find, and they all were leading with the exact same story.

This CrowdStrike thing, which is a, it sounds like it's an enterprise security solution, so it's not something you're gonna have on your Mac or Windows, I think it's Windows. but the likes of me are not gonna have it. But if you are a big, I don't know, train operator in the UK or you operate a healthcare service in the UK or an airport for example, then this is the kind of thing you will have.

And they pushed an update. Which killed Windows. oh. I don't even know what to say. whoops. But whoops. Is, about the long and the short of it, isn't it? But the list of things in the UK that went down was properly profound. you just looked at it and you thought.

Okay. Potentially this is the work of one individual, one person committed to, I dunno, I'm just making it up, but potentially one person committed a line of code. One person maybe checked it over, I don't know, maybe it was teams of people, but at some point somebody clicked the, push button and up it went and just blo green, what is it, on Windows?

Is it blue screen of death? Is that what it's called? Blue screen of Death? Yeah. it blew screen computers throughout the world. So we had Air G so healthcare services in the UK were down. They couldn't issue medicine. train networks were down. airports were shot and it just, the list just went on and on and it's funny, it's like an episode of Black Mirror or something. But at the same time, I went into the news agent the following day and almost every headline. Along the lines of we, we can't allow this kind of stuff to happen again, or we can't allow like computers to be at the center of everything that we do, including cashless payments, which is an interesting thing.

firstly, what happened? Where you live, what went down, what did it take out? Let's start with, let's start with Dave, which I presume is similar to me. I didn't actually go anywhere on Friday, so I just saw the news by a complete unrelated Windows Instant thought about problem, not related to that bit, which then thought later on, like trying to solve these things.

[01:20:02] Dave Grey: that's why I never pushed stuff live on their Fridays. Yeah. Yeah, Never do it live on a Friday. Okay? if, you weren't following the news and you weren't getting on public transport and you didn't need to see the doctrine, that whole laundry list of things that went wrong, you, never know it would happen, right?

[01:20:19] Nathan Wrigley: 'cause the, internet was still up and newspapers still worked, and Twitter still worked and all that, but it was very profound. What about you, Derek? Did it affect you in any way or, people that you know or. It's funny 'cause I drove my kids to the airport on a Friday at four o'clock in the afternoon, which, and I'm an hour away from our airport in Denver and hearing the news, all that stuff, flights are, what was gonna happen.

[01:20:43] Derek Ashauer: So we left an extra hour early in case it was just gonna be absolute chaos at the airport. we flew Southwest, which apparently, I think they even had a funny tweet saying that they weren't affected by it or something like that. And I'll say it was probably one of the smoothest experiences at an airport I've ever had.

I don't know if it's because most of the flights ended up getting canceled, so the security line was like 10 minutes. because everyone was canceled so no one showed up. Maybe. I don't know. But it's funny 'cause we planned to get there early in case it was chaos and then we flew through it.

Not a problem in. Yeah, so, actually improved your quality of life. That's so funny. Yeah.

[01:21:27] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. And Michelle, anything where you are, or stories in the press or. Imagine waking up to run two tracks over nine hours of an online event to the words global outages. Oh, and no, it didn't affect the internet, of course, but the number of people saying, is it still on? Is it still on? Is it still on?

[01:21:49] Michelle Frechette: Because of that was a little distracting. I don't know if it affected our attendance because people might have been so much into trying to solve other issues, but, clearly it didn't affect the fact that we had an online event, but it was a little nerve wracking at first, but it didn't affect me otherwise.

[01:22:06] Nathan Wrigley: I feel like it was a bit of a, how to describe it. Bit of a dry run for something, which could be much worse. And in the same way that Covid was horrible and all, but that, some sort of pathogen could have been significantly worse. I, hate to imply that Covid wasn't, like a big deal, right?

'cause I had it the other day and it was absolutely god awful miserable. Yeah. Yeah. Really miserable. And obviously it, it killed hundreds of thousands of people and all that sort of stuff. But it could, let's be honest, it could have been like every third catastrophic human could have been, right?

And, so some people talk about that being a bit of a dry run for the health services and things like that. And, it feels as almost this event could have been a bit like of a wake up call in the same vein. look what can happen from one software vendor. Think, and it's not even Microsoft.

It was a, sub, something which bolts itself onto Microsoft Windows. Do you think it's a dry run for Y three K? Why are you saying that? I wonder. Let me put the, put the thing up here. So this is, this is Matt Mullenweg again. He's, he's on the Twitter this time. he says it's YY 2K happened 24 years late.

by the way, if you're watching this and you don't dunno what Y 2K is, then. I wanna be already. Yeah. there was this moment in history, the year 2000, exactly. As the clocks turned midnight on the year 2000, it was widely predicted that loads of technology would fail because there wasn't enough space to, to record the extra data that was required to have four digits instead of two digits.

And I remember people saying things like, yeah, your oven's gonna break. Your toaster's gonna stop working. planes are gonna fall out of the sky. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. And so there was loads of remedial work done, and then it turned out when it, actually happened, I don't know anything that, not a single thing of a non event thing that happened.

And it, it seems the tech industry made a ton of money out of updating things. I'll say. I knew somebody, oh, go on Derek. I was gonna say is I think it's why I said nothing happened because a lot of work did go in to make sure that nothing happened. Yeah. yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose there's that side of the coin, but it felt a bit like that with this, and it did make, honestly, it did make me question if the, effect of this one little software vendor, I.

A little, that's ridiculous word to say, but, this one software vendor could be so profound and keep planes from working people stop people getting cash out of, ATM machines, stop people receiving vital medicine in some cases because the machines that were, the custodians of who's allowed what, weren't working.

That's pretty profound. And it does make me wonder, I wonder if we do need to be a little bit more circumspect about the amount that we've given over to technology. And obviously all four of us in some way would describe ourself as technologists. We love it. All the new shiny things, it's great.

But there comes a point where maybe we need a paper backup. Actually planned paper backups so that when the, then the computer system fails, there is something to flip back to. And apparently a few, dental surgeries and GP surgeries in the UK did have that planning done. they literally had a, a mitigation plan for the computer outage and just whipped out the pads of paper that allowed them to do whatever they wanted to do.

Let's see what we got here. Alan's saying there was a very funny video on Twitter where a bloke claims it was him his first day as an intern. Oh, let's pray. It was a, that's awesome. Let's pray. It was a, spoof. If that was the case, gosh, heads will roll. I think probably a lot of value is wiped off the internet on that day.

Not the internet wiped off the stock market on that day. I don't actually know. not the same as Patricia, but it could happen to other tech stack including PHP or WordPress. C Yost and Juliet. Talk at WCE. This is about the, PHP testing suite, isn't it? I think Patricia's talking about, sometimes we rely on one person.

Okay, so it's not a software update, it's a, it's that, what's it like hitting by a boss philosophy where you take out the one per, you seen that during that, oh, what's that cartoon called? The guy who does all the cartoons on the internet, and it's a four letter word. Oh, it doesn't matter. XKCD. That's it.

And he is got the entire internet stacked up beautifully. It's this beautiful collection of building blocks, but there's this one tiny little building block, which when you look closely, if that tiny block goes. The entire edifice falls down. And so it's a little bit like that. glad we have auto update.

Rollbacks in time says Ali. Yeah. Not that it would've affected us. We can be smug this time around. Prime example of why Cameron recommends not using automatic updates, apocalypse is coming not too far away. da because we fixed text bug before it happened. What else have we got? Testing team shift 25.

Yeah, Sorry, I'm just whipping through these 'cause I can see the time is tight. yes, Alan, that's what I was going to say. Thank you for fixing before it was a problem. And finally, Matt Pontificated. What if WP had a similar issue? Yeah, I didn't see that. was he saying that WordPress having a similar issue could just destroy 43% of the web?

[01:27:34] Dave Grey: Yeah, I did a, you said if someone talk over you, if someone committed like a D command into core, would that get caught? Because basically d basically terminates whatever's running at that point. So it's just a case of how easy or hard would it be for something like that to just get sneak through and appear somewhere and that, to work around it?

[01:27:54] Nathan Wrigley: I did a podcast episode with Aaron Bin, I dunno if you've come across him, but he is a core committer and is, is, very often the person, the last moment when they decide to push the aut, the next version of WordPress. So 6.6 0.1, for example. Somebody has to make that decision and sometimes it's him.

And I can, I couldn't do that. I would be freaking out, did we test everything? Are we sure? Is it definitely not gonna kill a million sites out there? And yet it basically goes smoothly. But the, difference I suppose, between the six point, 6.1 and two and three is that will automatically update for millions of people.

Whereas for the, core updates, you often might have to go in and click the button and be a bit more circumspect about it. So time to roll things out and check things, but yeah. so yeah. I'm glad that Aaron's doing that. Not me. That's it. That's all I've got time for. Unless you've got anything you wanna promote or mention, you three.

I am good. You good? Yeah. I was just gonna say the Cameron's apocalypse thing, that's 'cause I think Linux systems store the dates in an entered your number and that's getting close to the top when it then start getting at zero. So basically it's Y 2K, but with a longer number involved if I'm correct.

[01:29:17] Derek Ashauer: what's that to do with, basically Linux thinking. The timestamp uses like an integer, so like a really long number, which basically got a lower and an upper bound. And when it gets to the top, it starts again at the bottom. Oh, okay. That's gonna be y 2K all over again for people that like longer numbers.

[01:29:33] Nathan Wrigley: So what, but is that some like crazy date into the future, or is that coming fairly soon? When it's got, when it's gonna reboot itself? can't probably stick the bits in here, but yeah. I always think it's like 2032 or something that's not too distant. But back in the seventies we thought, hey, no computer's still gonna be running this code at that point.

[01:29:51] Dave Grey: Yeah, that'd be fine. yeah. and we know, Linux hardly does anything on the internet, so we don't need to worry. Nobody's using Linux or anything. No. Free piece of software. Everybody's on, Windows. No, they're not. thank you for that. Can I say one thing? Starting tomorrow is the summer sale for Stellar wp.

[01:30:12] Michelle Frechette: 40% off of all of our products. Nice. where do we go? Stellar wp.com. Yep. Or any one of our products. So give wp RCP all of the different, the events, calendar, learn dash, those will all be 40%. There'll be a banner on top of every one of those sites tomorrow. Do you know for, how long did you say that?

It's a week. Okay. Get 40% off over at Stellar wp the events calendar, all of the different bits and pieces they do. Derek, Dave, any promo stuff you wanna do before we knock it on the head? yeah, check out, convergent fridge wp.com. I'm not doing any promos because I'm going on vacation, so, yeah.

[01:30:53] Derek Ashauer: Bye when I get back from vacation. Yeah. But, there we go. But, but that, and, and I also have a WP Sunshine for my confetti and. My address, auto Complete plugins as well. Nice. So WP Sunshine, google that or go to conversion bridge wp.com and you can check out the fine work. And Dave heads up wp.com is there.

[01:31:16] Nathan Wrigley: We can see that on your little moniker there. Anything else you wanna say before we find Yeah, if you like. Have problems with your notification emails 'cause some other client's gone rogue and you've got all those things through and Bit said Google for site owner admin plugin and hopefully if Google's not got rid of me, there should be summer up there or our wp plugins.com and you can there find it on there.

[01:31:36] Dave Grey: As I say, Derek, no promotions 'cause I'm off holiday next week, but there might be something coming up in the summer holidays just 'cause frankly the kids need ice creams and they be happy. Think of the children. Yeah, think of the children, think of the, I love that. that's absolute. Yeah, that's great.

[01:31:52] Nathan Wrigley: So the same is true over here. I'm gonna holiday so we won't have this week in WordPress number 304 next week. It'll be the week following that. So have a nice fortnight as we say in the uk. Have a good, nice 14 day break and we'll see you in a couple of weeks Just before we go. We do this, the hand wavy and I'm in the, I'm in a different spot 'cause I've, you're bailed out.

Try again Derek, if you can go a little bit. Yeah, just a little. Ah, there we go. Nice. And thank you so much to everybody who made a comment and just w quick one thing there. Cameron Jones says the Linux apocalypse is gonna be in the year 2038. So you got a little while to prepare, but, all right. We'll see you guys next time on this weekend, WordPress.

Have a nice day. Take it easy. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye.