This Week in WordPress #299

[00:00:04] Nathan Wrigley: It's time for this week in WordPress episode number 299, entitled we have all the Birgit's and Remkus'. It was recorded on Monday the 24th of June, 2024. My name's Nathan Wrigley and I'll be joined by Remkus de Vries, Birgit Pauli-Haack and Birgit Olzem. And as we're a WordPress podcast, we're going to focus mainly on WordPress.

The event which took place last week, WordCamp Europe is the focus of many of the bits and pieces that we talk about today. We highlight a bunch of photos which are all available on flickr.

We spent quite a lot of time talking about the 11 points that Matt Mullenweg raised at his keynote, trying to inject a bit of fun and optimism back into the WordPress space. We also look at various bits and pieces that Birgit Pauli-Haack brought to bear. She has a table on the make.wordpress.org website, which highlights what features are available inside of the core WordPress blocks. But we also highlight some of the bits and pieces she's been doing on Gutenberg times.

We also talk about the photo directory and whether or not it needs to be more professional, more high quality, if you like.

What does data liberation mean to you? Does it mean Joomla to WordPress, Drupal to WordPress, to WordPress? What about page builder a to page builder b in WordPress. That dominates our conversation a lot today.

We also talk about a few deals lying around, particularly Remkus' new tool, which is called Scanfully and it's all coming up next on this week in WordPress.

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Hello there. Episode. Whoa, check it out. I never actually noticed that. It's episode number 299. We're one away from 300. That's bonkers. Episode number 299 in of this week in WordPress.

I do apologize for the hiatus. Yeah, thank you Birgit. I do apologize for the hiatus. It was because I went to, word Camp Europe, where funnily enough, all these people, they were there and I saw all of them in various states of disrepair. That is to say me in various states of disrepair, not them. it was a really fun event.

Maybe we'll get onto that a little bit later, but an absolute pleasure to have you back. if you are watching this live, fabulous. If you are listening to the audio, then you'll be able to check out the show notes. But if you listen to this live, we'll push it out as a. A podcast episode, so audio, video, all that kinda stuff.

But also link to all of the bits and pieces that we're mentioning today. You'll be able to find [email protected]. Go to the archives menu, click on the little down arrow and go to this week in WordPress and it'll be living there. just a few bits of housekeeping ever since Facebook decided to hobble their API for things like this piece of software to get into the groups, there's really only one place to go, and that is to that page.

If you wanna make a comment, go to wp builds.com, slash live. I'll make it obvious. I'll put it in. Oh, sorry. Bigot. I do apologize. That's just, yeah, that's right's. Just the way the platform works. and you can, you've got two options. You can either be logged into Google and you can use the YouTube comments, which are at the side of the video if you're on a desktop, or on the player itself.

Top right hand corner is a little, black box, which says live chat. And you can go in there and you don't need to be logged into anything. In that case, you don't need a Google account or a Facebook account. So any of those comments will drop in. But yeah, go and friend it. Ugh, go and friend it. Go and share it with your friends relations, hamsters, Guinea pigs, cats, parrots, even, whatever you like.

Tell 'em all. Yeah. What's that? Just dogs. Dogs, okay. Cats, dogs. Yeah. Okay. We can go with dogs if you like. Yeah, that's fine. stick in. I don't

[00:04:40] Remkus de Vries: care for 'em. But you

[00:04:41] Nathan Wrigley: Not too bothered. any kind of sentient creature, go and share it with them. We'd love to have your comments and I do appreciate those people that have made the effort to put comments in already.

Thank you very much indeed. Before we get onto that though, let's just go round the houses and introduce all of the, bits and pieces. I'm gonna do it in the order that it's in my show notes, not the order that they're on the screen. first up is there Mku? Mku. DRIs, how are you doing? Mku? I'm well.

How are you? Yeah, good. Really good. Have you, recovered from your very, long drive?

[00:05:11] Remkus de Vries: yeah, I, needed about two days, Yeah. Yeah. last week, Monday and Tuesday were, basically my weekend. And then, not really no work, but relaxed.

[00:05:22] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. MKAS drove to, word Camp Europe from where he lives, and showed some amazing pictures of the, passes and the, valleys that you drive through just before you get to Torino as you go through the Alps.

quite jealous. I flew over it in about four seconds.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. anyway, Remus, as you're about to discover, has a, nice new thing that he's launching, but we'll get onto that a little bit later. But other than that, when Remus is a WordPress performance specialist, building fast and scalable websites, he's also the co-founder of Here It is Scan Fully, go and check it out already, A WordPress site, health Monitoring Service.

He's the co-founder of Future of Teams, with somebody who I think we're gonna mention a little bit later, and a prolific podcaster and publisher of newsletter over at within WordPress. So thank you for joining us today, REMCOs. Really appreciate it. Happy to be here. Thank you. We're also joined by, How do we do this? Because we've got all the bigots, there's all the WordPress bigots on the One show. Sorry. Bigot. Your face is still being hidden by that awful graphic. Wait, let me get rid of that. That's awful. How do I get rid of it? Where is it? It's a caption. There we go. Great. So first of all, we've got Bigot Polly Hack, who's over there.

How are you?

[00:06:38] Birgit Pauli-Haack: I'm good. I'm good. Thank you for having me on the show again.

[00:06:40] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Oh, you're welcome. And you've got some things which are gonna be dropping in the show today as well. Sure. big, it was also at Word Camp Europe. We exchanged funny waves from distances quite a few times. There's quite bullying.

Same

[00:06:52] Birgit Pauli-Haack: sentence. Yeah. But that happened with quite a few people. Yeah.

[00:06:55] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Anyway, big it, Pauly Hack is the publisher of the Gutenberg Times, which I'll mention in a moment. this is a site which is, created around news in the WordPress block editor space and beyond. She hosts regular Gutenberg Live q and as on YouTube and hosts the podcast.

Gutenberg Change Log Bigot has been contributing to the WordPress Open Source project since 2014 and contributes now full time. Sponsored by automatic. Very nice. Thank you for having, having the time to join us. Yeah.

[00:07:23] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Glad to be here. Yeah.

[00:07:24] Nathan Wrigley: And this is a problem because now we've got the other bigot.

What are we, gonna say about you big it za? Can we just go bigot one, bigot two. That's really weird.

[00:07:37] Birgit Olzem: The pink one.

[00:07:39] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Pink. Big it is. Let's try that. All right. Let's see. See how we go. how are you?

[00:07:44] Birgit Olzem: I'm fine, thank you. You're

[00:07:46] Nathan Wrigley: very welcome.

[00:07:47] Birgit Olzem: Bi eye. I did a week of recovery, so Yeah. But yeah,

[00:07:52] Nathan Wrigley: I had about three days of recovery and then I got the, the dreaded coronavirus and, I'm still in the recovery.

I thought I was being so smug. All of my friends on YouTube and Facebook and all that were going, oh, I got coronavirus. I didn't get coronavirus. I'm totally immune. And then on Friday, last week, it was like, oh, darn it. Yeah. Yeah. It got me. Damn. but I'm, in, recovery mode and I've got my, Medication in a cup, we'll see how we go.

[00:08:20] Birgit Olzem: I got just only two or three nasty mosquito bytes. Oh. Which got inflamed. And I needed to take antibiotics because of a bacterial infection. That's not really good. Working with my artificial hip replacements, oh, yeah. So I need to be very cautious about that.

[00:08:39] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:08:40] Birgit Olzem: yeah,

[00:08:40] Nathan Wrigley: Tim Nash messaged me, he's often on this show, and he said, it's like Word Camp Plague. It's like you go there and you. Come home and everybody's basically unwell. Anyway, the other bigot, as she's called herself in the show notes, is a creative poly well go pink. Pink Bigot is a creative polymath and advocates for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging as the spearhead of the global WordPress DEIB working group.

More on that later. Besides her profession, as a personal branding consultant, she contributes contemporary art and whimsical textile designs and surface patterns. She hosts a regular series about W, I'm sorry, DEIB, on the Do the Woo Podcast show. The WordPress way. So that's our panelists today. Hope you, enjoy, it.

Like I said, if you've got any commentary, please just drop it into the, the chat widget and we'll try to get to it. A few of you have done that already, and I, oh gosh, more than a few ble heck just runs away with you, don't it. Look at that. okay, let's make a start. The first one is just a, hi face from Hendrick.

Nice to have you with us. Courtney is joining us and saying hi to Hendrick. Let's go through there are people talking about what they were doing since they've been to Word Camp Europe. So Courtney's here saying that basically she slept and lead needed a week to recover. last week. Oh gosh, it's about 25 degrees here and I'm burning up Courtney.

it's 38 degrees, where she is all week. no doubt we'll get a Peter Ingersol weather update at some point if he's still alive and well in Connecticut. Cameron Jones joining us from Australia. Good evening. He says, although it feels awfully cold and wet like in the uk Yes. once in my life we have better weather than Cameron.

fantastic. Pictures from the Drive says Hendrick. Do you two know each other? Do you know Hendrick by any chance? Emus? Yes, I do. Ah, got it. Okay. Okay. And then Elliot is joining me from down the road. He is, living in Briton, just down the road. Patricia's joining us. Thank you for your kind offer of comment on this show.

Unfortunately, being, not unfortunately, bigot beat you to the thing there. and then good morning, says Peter. Here we go. Here we go. The show has finally begun. good morning from Connecticut after a weekend with both heat and strong thunderstorms. It's currently 26 degrees Centigrade, 78 Fahrenheit, and Sonny Peter Ingersol, you're a legend.

I love it. Love the fact that you do this. anything else? Good morning, says Marcus. Lovely folks. Enjoy seeing most of you in person over there a week ago. Medicine in a cup. No, It's not that kind of medicine. It's actual, it's called lemin.

[00:11:11] Remkus de Vries: No, you can't, everybody knows exactly what that is.

You can look if I could,

[00:11:16] Nathan Wrigley: I can't. If I tip it, it's yellow. It's like this yellowy yellow

[00:11:21] Birgit Pauli-Haack: with whiskey. Yes,

[00:11:22] Nathan Wrigley: I did. I did buy a bottle of that. See, you have been in Italy, so come on. Oh, ly I guess it might be a hot toddie. No, there it, it's called lemon sip. Honest. Anyway, moving away.

This toxic subject. brilliant. okay. So thank you all for joining us. Keep the comments coming 'cause it makes the show really entertaining. I never ask Can you three see the comments in the platform? No. Yes, m has come. Have you gone to the live chat thing? Oh, wait, I,

[00:11:56] Remkus de Vries: I'm, zoomed in, so I don't

[00:11:57] Nathan Wrigley: see it.

Ah, okay. It's just if you see any and you want me to raise them, just, shout. 'cause sometimes I'm so busy

[00:12:03] Birgit Pauli-Haack: talking. I'm, waving back to Hendrick, Tim Munich. Yes.

[00:12:06] Nathan Wrigley: Yes. Sounds good. my alcoholic cleaning soda. Is that yelling? no. Wait. There's a whole meme beginning here and I'm, it's not true.

it's slightly true. All right. Let's get stuck into the actual meat and the bones of the show. This is us. WP builds.com. As you can see, we are sponsored by GoDaddy Pro and Bluehost. Much, much con thank you to them for keeping this show going. I really appreciate it. You can go and click on the links on the page there.

so GoDaddy Pro Bluehost, thank you so much indeed. Moving on from there. Just a quick one. this is apropos of nothing. I've asked the panelists today if they, go here and there's no way I'm gonna be able to pass this on to you 'cause the URL is just. Utter nonsense, but it's Flickr. it's the album for Word Camp Europe 2024.

I know Remus in particular has probably got some interest to this because his son was there for the whole three days of the conference taking I'm, guessing he took hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures. I think he said, I think he said, something thousands. Yeah,

[00:13:11] Remkus de Vries: something like eight, 8,000 I think.

[00:13:13] Nathan Wrigley: Wow. Good grief. Anyway, they've been whittled down to something. I think, what does it say here? Nearly 3,500 photos. And if you were in attendance, I'll make sure to put the link in the show notes for this. There's some absolute crackers, people walking around with some seriously impressive. Camera equipment, taking what I've ended up being absolutely brilliant Photos.

So if our guests want to, find a particular photo, and indeed audience members, if you can find it, if you go to, I don't know, Google Flicker WordCamp Europe 2024 Torino, what on the screen, if you wanna go and find a picture that you think is particularly cool and share it in the, in the chat for this, that'd be really appreciative.

that'd be really nice. So there's that. But the, first bit of proper news comes from, Bigot number one. and it's bigot and white shirt. That's right. White shirted. Yeah. White, Big pink bigot. There we go. That'll do white. Yeah. White shirt. I know this feeling. so bigot, you produced this article this week, which I just thought was nice to, to, just let everybody have a look at.

It's a roster of design tools per block for WordPress 6.6, the 6.6 edition, and it basically, it boils down to this great big table. What was your, what was the purpose of you throwing this together?

[00:14:29] Birgit Pauli-Haack: it's actually, an update from a, similar table from 6.1, that I did where. I heard some rumblings in the, in the community that it's really hard to figure out which design tool goes to which block, and can they do borders, yes or no?

Can they do, gradient, yes or no? Are the dimensions, added to all the blocks or not? And this gives you, an answer to that and added a few columns there. That's why the hover solution and props to the meta team, they, because the make blog is so small. Yeah. very good. we, the, last four, columnists were hidden, before, and now you see 'em, all the Deaton and there were two, three things that are, I added to it.

One was the shadows. Yeah. Which blocks can do, shadow drop shadows. And then, which block can do, and you need to, I'm sorry,

[00:15:35] Nathan Wrigley: I've gone away now

[00:15:37] Birgit Pauli-Haack: I don't have it memorized. which blocks can do, background images and there were in six, 18.6, Gutenberg plugin, where a few more. and then the last one is which block, are actually available to do, block bindings or, pattern overrides.

Yeah. And there's, because it's not all blocks for everything, but, so you have, that's a fast overview for developers, theme developers mostly, to see which block supports which I mean, design tool. it's not the most, Impressive or usable kind of table, but it's right now what we have.

but we are working on a, different kind of system, but that takes probably another year or so to get it done.

[00:16:26] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:16:27] Birgit Pauli-Haack: yeah, so the green box is, okay. So the column block can do everything except a line. and, doesn't have duo tone and doesn't have the background image yet. and not, it's not available for, pattern overrides or, block bindings. Yeah, the columns block. however, is there, there have, there's a line block, but yeah. So the green dots are, which is available and the empty or dashes, is Yeah. Can do it.

[00:17:03] Nathan Wrigley: okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, I just thought it was really neat, way for developers to just grasp in one handy thing what will be available in their Yeah.

in their themes. by default at the moment. 6.6,

[00:17:15] Birgit Pauli-Haack: there was the, message I got when I published that for the 6.1 release. and just to get it right, it's not what comes in with 6.6, it's what has been in WordPress since the last update, so thank you. It's 6.2, 6.3, 6.45, and now six.

Yeah. So it's cumulative.

[00:17:37] Nathan Wrigley: that's brilliant. Thank you so much. I dunno if either Remus or or big it pink big. This is ridiculous. Anyway, I'm gonna stick with it. has anything to add about that, that just, I just wanted to raise the fact that Big had mentioned it.

[00:17:52] Birgit Olzem: I,

[00:17:52] Nathan Wrigley: that we have it.

[00:17:53] Birgit Olzem: Yeah, I, really appreciate that and it takes a lot of work to put it into, but I want to raise one question also, Courtney, ask in a comment. does, is table overview land someday in the, overall documentation? is there any. Ideas on that to make it more accessible also?

[00:18:15] Birgit Pauli-Haack: we have the, the idea for, in documentation, when it would be landing in the Gutenberg, documentation, and I am, alone thinking about it, I get hives because, you have to put it all in markdown and building tables in lockdown Oh yeah.

Is just for something horrible. Yeah. You don't wanna really do it. But I have brilliant developers, on Gutenberg, and, from the community, and there's one dentist he has, there is, a way to have, blocks converted to markdown and then from. Then add it to a documentation page. oh, neat.

The idea is there, that's actually something that, Adam, suggested in the q and a. and in the background we have been experimenting with it. So this would be the ultimate test to translate this table, block into a markdown block and then put it in a documentation. It, might take until the fall to get to that.

but yes, absolutely, it definitely should be in the documentation.

[00:19:22] Nathan Wrigley: And then Hendrick makes a sort of slight similar, I think, comment, but just with a further suggestion. He says if it goes into the docs, it should have some sort of timing indication as of 6.6 or something. Yeah, that's an interesting point.

So you can keep up with where, that's applicable from and to, Yeah. Okay.

[00:19:39] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. on the, table itself, there is one marker for background image for verse and quote, and. I forgot. it says 18.6 and that means Google plugin. Okay. 18.6 doesn't come in 6.6. Yeah.

[00:19:53] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Thank you very much.

And quick mention. Thank you for pointing

[00:19:56] Birgit Pauli-Haack: it out.

[00:19:57] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. No, that's nice. Isn't it Lovely. Amber's saying hi. Hi there Amber. Nice to have you with us. I betcha GPT says Marcus would be great at turning ht ML table to mark now. Yeah, that's feels like the sort of thing it would be able to do except when it hallucinated a picture of I don't know, a rabbit or something at the end that you weren't expecting.

Amber says make, oh, interesting. Amber's in with her accessibility hat on. Make sure there's a screen reader text for supported and not supported. So this table is usable. For blind people. So I'm sure that bigot will take that suggestion and Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you Amber. Nice. Nice, Okay, so that's, there's that. And then, moving on, bigot, as we said at the beginning, bigot produces the Gutenberg times and this piece came along today and there's absolutely loads in it. you can go gutenberg times.com and you'll be able to see the archive, everything that's there. This is the most recent, post.

You can see pictures of Jamie Marsland with, with his, speed test demo that he did at the, the event. But big it, there's absolutely tons in here. More than we can mention. But you did just wanna talk about a, now let me find it. There was a couple of, up here we go. Upcoming events that you wanted to highlight in the WordPress space?

Do you wanna quickly rattle through those?

[00:21:07] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Sure. Yeah. and there, I already see a typo. It's darn it. So the first one is the developer hours that will happen tomorrow, not on Wednesday, June 25th at 1500. And it talks about what's new for developers, theme developers in Repress 6.6. It talks about the block style variation, style, variation section styles, and how to, apply those to, to your theme and what you can do with it.

So that's definitely a highlight was just Tadlock and Nick Jago. So that's tomorrow,

[00:21:42] Nathan Wrigley: not the 26th. That's tomorrow. Yeah, that's the ty. Okay.

[00:21:45] Birgit Pauli-Haack: That's the typo. and then. On the 26th, there is at 1100 UTC, there is a hallway hangout, exploring the grid layouts that come with WordPress 6.6 to WordPress. and also, Isabelle, Bryson will do some demonstr there.

How the, all the features, how you can see it on the, on the interfaces and yeah, how, to work those, but also, how you can support it, with the theme Jason or with your custom blocks. and she will also talk about what she's working on now, that ra 6.6 beta is out, for 6.7. So that's a, an informal kind of discussion, on, the new features.

and yeah, that's. Wednesday. Okay. At 11 utc. So that

[00:22:41] Nathan Wrigley: one's, yeah. So that's June the 26th at 11 utc. So two events there. But yeah, go and check out gutenberg times.com Thank you if you haven't done already. And you'll be able to see all the, bits and pieces that Bigge puts together each and every week to keep us updated.

Couple of things, Amber also, as highlighted row, headers as, an accessibility thing, which you might need to look at and back to the markdown tables, which is always fun. Patricia, thank you, says that, making them in obsidian, mark down in obsidian tables are quite easy to do. And then copy the file.

Ooh. And neat little trick. Okay. There you go. Yeah. And

[00:23:15] Birgit Pauli-Haack: you go the other way. So from blocks to markdown.

[00:23:18] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[00:23:19] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:21] Nathan Wrigley: Alrighty. let's move on. Let's talk about, ah, honestly, Genuinely, I think this is. Really great. maybe I'm just hype, hyper, sensitive to this kinda stuff, but I, think this is gonna be really cool.

So this is all about data view updates. and it's Ann McCarthy, who I'm sure you all know, we've had her on the show several times and she's, she really does produce massive amounts of content in the WordPress space. She's an aian and I'll just quote at the beginning 'cause it's hard for me to encapsulate it.

It says with the last release, last few releases of WordPress, the glimmers of phase three of the Gutenberg roadmap are starting to shine through, namely in the form of a new and powerful data view option. it's also causing understandable concern because it does offer the option to really overhaul the admin UI for WordPress users.

And then here's the background. What is the problem? Data views are trying to solve the current WP list table. So this is, but imagine that you are, I don't know, you're in the post view and you're just looking at all the posts. You've got a really limited set of different things that you can look at. You could look at it in a, some sort of.

List view, and then you've got the option to add in like a featured image or something like that. There's two options. I, can't remember what they're called. Is it grid and list? Can't remember. Anyway, two different views but fairly limited. and in the future, the idea is that once phase three is on the development, this will enable a whole bunch of different ways at looking at your list.

So it could be, I don't know, lists of users. It could be lists of posts, it could be lists of custom post types, and it makes it feel a little bit more sas. If you like, and I'll just, quickly play this video while I talk and I might just scan through. So here's what you've got at the moment, right?

Here's a list of pages and, and at the moment is going through and here's what it could look like in the future. You could interact with the pages directly next to a view of the page, which is nice. And then Anne goes over to look at the trash, which is obviously, there it is a list of all the different things that you've got in the trash.

And she goes, and let's have a look quickly what she does. Here we are, we're in the trash now, and you can delete things in this way that's nice. But then she moves over and looks at, I don't know, the ways that you could sort things, for example, you could view things by date. And we've got a whole load of options in here.

It's a complete overhaul of the way things look and feel in the WordPress admin interface, because it's pretty seismic. My intuition is that this is not gonna come in like WordPress six or WordPress 6.7, or WordPress 6.8 or whatever it may be. The idea at the moment is we just wanna get this in front of people and you can go and look for yourself and see what might be shipped and how it ought to look.

But I think it's genuinely exciting, not only because I'm a sucker for a nice ui, but also because I think it's high time that the views that we've got for data in WordPress tables, they're a bit out of date, frankly, aren't they? Over to you? Are

[00:26:22] Remkus de Vries: you? Are, you, excited about the, the, UI as a whole?

So the new direction that the dashboard itself is going, or are you excited about? Do you what? Yeah, so that's interesting particular data view inside them. 'cause the, versatility of here's a new set of data and automatically has views and it works. I, really like that principle, but it's also, I'm a little scared for it because, if we have everybody using this, what's them to start using?

I don't know, custom post types as categories or as tags or whatever. there's a little bit of a, I, love how it looks, but there's, I have questions on what it will open up.

[00:27:02] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I think I'm a bit shiny object syndrome. Sometimes I look at something and because it's new and because it just, I,

[00:27:08] Remkus de Vries: but I wanted to check.

[00:27:10] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. But because it's new and because it looks different, and I can see through the video that Anne's put together where she obviously knows where to go seamlessly, and she manages to get exactly where she wants to go. 'cause she knows, I suspect that, for a, user like me who's in WordPress every day, I quickly overcome that obstacle.

But I imagine for the 99% of WordPresses who are just using it as a tool to curate content and publish posts and things like that, yeah, it could be difficult, couldn't it? so is that what you mean, whether or not Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:27:41] Remkus de Vries: Easy to create. a data structure, which you might not necessarily need or should have even

[00:27:49] Birgit Pauli-Haack: I'm, not sure that actually you, as a user would create those data views.

I think there are just new components that plugin developers can use. That's right.

[00:27:59] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:27:59] Birgit Pauli-Haack: WooCommerce and, product views and all that, can use or, yeah, if you have an events calendar that you have, your list can now follow the standard of, what other data views have on the features are available, including custom fields and all that.

For the developers, not so much for the user. The user is the ui. Yeah. But,

[00:28:20] Remkus de Vries: so I'm, including a video we saw earlier that had roughly the same, things shown, but also the creation of extra data views was part of the ui. If, we're still doing that, then I have my concerns. If we're just looking at the UI as, as indeed as you just said, this is the, what is now available for plugin developers and, all of that, for everybody to start, homogenizing how data structure is supposed to look.

I'm a huge fan, long overdue,

[00:28:56] Nathan Wrigley: tech, nice technical comment from, Hendrick. He said the difficulty is that where, sorry, that there is a whole ecosystem built on the post underscore table, component, even though it has been marked private since forever. So admin columns, extended, custom post types, et cetera.

Yeah, I, think Mkas, I think you're right. I think basically I'm, just imagining that something like that could ship. but I think it would be highly confusing. and I guess if every cost, I'm, my thoughts are changing. I'm like shifting sound. My thoughts are changing as I'm speaking. and I'm thinking if you're a plugin developer.

You could obviously go your own way, but locking it inside that ui, so that at least looks fairly familiar and you've got the fa the, same filtration options rather than what we have at the moment where, I don't know, you download a form plugin or something like that and the whole UI is totally taken over.

You've got no idea where anything is because the bottoms don't look the same. The, the, lists of posts and whatever it is, don't look the same, for, more or less everything. Locking it into that one ui, so long as it's got all the options. Seems like a nice idea. Ai, I am definitely changing what I'm thinking as I'm talking.

[00:30:09] Remkus de Vries: Just be sure you don't turn it a quick sound.

[00:30:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that, thank you. bigot, pink bigot. Anything you wanna add?

[00:30:18] Birgit Olzem: yeah, I'm interested into how this, evolves over time and I hope that they all keep in mind that it needs to be accessible. I. for everyone. So I'm not very, firm in the terminology about that.

there are more better experts than me and that, but I like to raise a, issue that, everything which is related on, the client side, needs, really needs to be more, accessible, as I learned a lot about. So yeah, I think Amber and others from the accessibility team, would be better to answer that question.

but I find it. Sometimes difficult to navigate, especially in the full site editor. it's for me, still sometimes challenging to find a way, I and the things I want to accomplish with that. yeah,

[00:31:18] Nathan Wrigley: I think it's worth going to this post. And again, the URL is slightly difficult to, say, but I'll just read it out.

the, make WordPress title, it's, I'll pop it on the screen, it's called, it's at make wordpress.org and it was released on the 13th of June. So it's a little, over a week old and it's called Data Views. Update June, 2024. And I think it's just worth going and having a look. and then Cameron's made a point that, not sure seeing any advantage over WP list table, which is what it's intended.

And I think the word is to replace data views, aims to revolutionize da dah duh. Can't. Yeah. Here we go. currently those views are known as WP list tables and data view seeks to replace those over time. So it's definitely supposed to be, one in, one out. I guess my counter to that would, yeah.

I don't really have a counter to that. I just probably am just guided by the way it looks more than anything else. But, anyway, worth going and checking out. Anybody wanna add to that before we move on?

[00:32:18] Remkus de Vries: in general, everybody should start preparing and, get familiar with it. 'cause it's going to happen one way or another.

Yep,

[00:32:23] Nathan Wrigley: yep. Yep,

[00:32:24] Remkus de Vries: Okay.

[00:32:25] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And the data views component, if you're a plugin developer, you can actually check it out on the storyboard and, on, Good Me time, good work. GitHub repo and, add it to your Yeah. test it out. okay. On, your plugin screens. Yeah.

[00:32:41] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you, thank you.

Okie dokie. The next thing, oh, bit of promotion for the WordPress London me up. We've had, had I think three of these now since we restarted maybe four. and the next one is coming up later this week. So on Thursday this week, June 27th, if you're in the London area or indeed in the uk and wish to travel, it's happening in central London, not far from the river.

It's at Klaviyo's, offices, and it's happening from six 30 to nine 30. I can't remember if it's been, if the reservations have been full, but I know that there is a wait list should the, should the reservations fill up. But, if you go to wpdn.uk. You'll be able to attend. And what will you be looking at?

Oh, if I click on that one, is it gonna tell me in a timely way? Yeah. There you go. There's the, there's the presentations. It's all about WooCommerce this time around. And, yeah, we'd love to see you there. Alrighty. The next thing, talk about making things happen pretty quickly, whilst, Matt Mullenweg was on the stage at Word Camp Europe, somebody, walked up to the microphone at the q and a at the end, I think there were probably about 10 questions in total, and somebody asked the question about meet ups and said, given all the, effort that we put in, to WordPress meetups, would it be good if we could have a wordpress.com site to help facilitate those meetups and just make you know that a free option for us?

And, it's built on the wordpress.com infrastructure. Matt turned around to, Daniel, and, said. Can that happen? And Daniel, I think thought for about a quarter of one second and said, yeah, let's do it. And, here it is. It's done, took, less than a week. so now if you are in the WordPress space and you are thinking of doing a WordPress meet up or you have a WordPress meet up, you now have availability of a wordpress.com website.

I dunno what the caveats and strings are attached to that. but anyway, it's available to you. It's now part of the, the, WordPress meetup package that you get. So I just thought that was quite nice and worthy of mentioning. I'm not sure if W-P-L-D-N will go for that or if they've got their own solution rolled out at the moment, but I just thought that was quite nice.

And a, an example of where something fairly significant happens in a heartbeat, which was nice. 'cause I suspect if that question hadn't have been asked, this wouldn't have happened, which took all of 10 seconds to make the decision on, which is nice. Anybody wanna comment on that before we move on?

Great initiative. Yeah. Oh, it's wonderful. Yeah. Neat, right? Yeah. Okay. if you didn't know about this, WordPress has a photo directory and Sam Alderson has some opinions of it. the WordPress photo directory is a place where you can go and upload your photos. There are some.

Caveats around that. We've had Michelle on this show, before talking about it, but you can go and upload photos and the caveats are fairly sensible. Things like, I guess it can't depict things like nudity. You're not allowed any faces and there's a bunch of other sensible defaults given that it's gonna be free.

and open source, you, upload your photo and then a member of the team, that moderates that goes and says yay or nay. what Sam is saying is that because it's such a loose arrangement, upload a photo, somebody will, approve it. And because there aren't real tight constraints about what qualifies as a usable photo, I think Sam thinks that some photos are getting in that really.

Never will be used. And I'm probably guilty of this because I have uploaded photos and approved them, or I've been sat next to Michelle while she was approving them at WordCamp Asia and they're nice pictures, but there's not really a part of my brain engaged going, is this actually usable? Is the quality high enough?

In my head, it's high enough. But so I think what Sam's basically saying is, do we need some objective standards? She's obviously a very keen photographer, so has an intuition as to what a good photo looks like. But the thought is, let's make it into a quality resource, not just some sort of, I don't know, cheap equivalent of a free resource.

And so can we have some guidance? And here's the suggestions, the quality of the photos needs to be high, whatever that means. the photos need to be utilitarian for a website. So pictures of my hamster. Maybe not. I actually don't have a hamster, so that would be a weird picture. and the trainers need to be moderated so that they know what they're looking for.

Because at the moment, I guess anybody who is contributing to the, the, photo gallery directory, there isn't really any guidance around that. So if there were some ironclad rules about what could and could not go up there, that would be good. So all in all seems like a fairly sensible suggestion to me.

I guess, maybe a few people will have things turned away because they're not of this high quality standard, but why not? What do you think?

[00:37:54] Remkus de Vries: I, link to it in my, newsletter saying that I think this is an, experiment at least, worth looking into. Yeah, because I think she makes a lot of sense. it is, if you browse through it, there's super random stuff there that I go, like I sure it's a picture, but.

[00:38:14] Nathan Wrigley: My hamster rimkus. that's the one that you found.

[00:38:19] Remkus de Vries: It looked dead, but yeah. Yes. It's definitely not a lie, nor is it dead. Yeah. No, but it's, I like it. normally not a big fan of, extra rules, but I think in this particular case, if we want to make it, the quality a bit higher, we need to have some things in place. I agree.

[00:38:39] Birgit Pauli-Haack: I don't know.

I'm on the, side a rather have it wide open than to have additional gatekeepers on something that's free. Yeah. I found quite a few Im images that are, were suitable for my Gutenberg times as a featured image, and I always go there and look through 'em and Yeah.

And see if something matches. And, I think the, there is a favorite feature on that. Yeah. people in the community can favorite pictures and maybe that school needs to be filterable, to have that. so the, people that don't like your, don't favor your hamster picture. yeah.

The, picture doesn't bubble up. I think that's, a farther, rather easier, way to implement something like that than having a whole list of. Criteria that although they, seem to be objective, there will always be, there seem to be objective, they will always be subjective. And then you, are excluding people, who just kinda wanna share some of their pictures.

And, yeah, that's my Could you, yeah, there is no, I don't, see that WordPress photo directory b a competition to get a images or other stock images places. Yeah. If, and it also is, a, few photographers make a living of that. So if, there is the quality on the WordPress kind of is risen.

Yeah, What prevents people from, taking those pictures instead of the professional pro, photographers? So there, I have a few thoughts, obviously, but, yeah's interesting.

[00:40:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. The, idea of keeping it open is really laudable, isn't it? that would be a really ideal place to be and that anybody can go upload any picture no matter what.

It would be the only intuition that I'm driven by, is I, in the past I've come across some, photo directories where I've just noticed the, difference between that one. Photo directory in this one is more or less, all the photos on this one are just not that great. And the one over here, they're somehow better.

And there must have been some curation going on in the background there. And I find myself drawn towards the one where typically the photos are of a and, it's some thing in my head that's driving it. I in my head think these are of a higher quality, so I go there and I guess the, problem would be if the directory was inundated by air quotes, low quality pictures, would it stop people even thinking of using it?

Because you have to t tra through 500 pictures before you get to that one picture. but I do like your system of kind of voting, I don't know, favoring people or maybe there's like a favored, I don't know this particular author of photos photographer has been downloaded a hundred thousand times. So their stuff in some way gets filtered in a different way, slightly higher.

I don't know. Interesting bigot. Thank you. that was white being it, by the way. Just for those, just for those listening to the audio, what do you think, pink being it, do you have any intuitions on this?

[00:42:00] Birgit Olzem: I, really do. as also Corte raised in the comments, the idea of the eco-friendly impact, of having, a lot of, images to host, somewhere, like in Apress, photo directory.

yeah, it should be something which is, really, Useful and not filled with photos that maybe No, don't get used on one hand. And I'm personally looking more, from the, web developer and web designer perspective. I'm always looking for great photography. I can use maybe on a website header, or, where is enough room to place a text, to have it alongside.

And, I'm missing that feature to filter. Oh yeah. For different perspectives, even if it says we have an orientation in portrait or landscape. But it doesn't give me the hint if this, a, photography, I can use as in background, covered with text portion for instance. I would love to see some improvement on that matter as well, to have it really as an, for me, a useful stock photography, directory, where I can pick on, great, quality photos, on the standards.

yes, I guess we, we can aim for having a good quality. but I don't feel that we don't have currently too low quality photos on that. But, maybe I'm wrong, but from my perspective, I don't see any, Quote unquote bad quality yet. So yeah, I'll just, to get some usage maybe. But

[00:43:59] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, I'll just read out what Sam, Sam wrote, Sam Alderon, I'm just make sure I got the name right.

when exploring the wordpress.org site, the terms high quality frequently appear. However, some photos in the directory don't meet the, standard. Then she said, sorry, not sorry. in my opinion, the photo directory, which I believe needs a name change, should be a repository of high quality stock images freely available through open verse and the internet for people who need suitable photos for their websites, but cannot take them themselves.

And as I mentioned, there were certain things, and the conclusion basically is this, define what high quality means. rather than just guessing, there's a definition of what that is. enhance the moderator training so that the people who are saying yes or no to the pictures actually know what the guidelines are.

Although, as we'll, find out in a moment we. We're trying to move away, I think from being too fixated on guidelines, rebrand the directory. So give it a new name, something like the WordPress, free stock photography, something like that. implement editorial oversight, promote sustainable practices.

So this is the bit that Courtney meant in terms of, if you're more critical about the photos that you've got on there, you're storing less bits and then celebrate contributors. And maybe that's the way of raising the profile of certain people so that they rise to the top. Anyway, nice to have, but I guess always room for improvement.

So thank you Sam, for that piece. Okay, moving along. data liberation a big thing. although as Matt said in the, in his, I'm gonna call it state of the word, but of course it wasn't in his address at Word Camp Europe. He, he feels that this project was much spoken about towards the end of 2023, and then it slowed down a little bit.

But I think the, intention is to push it in the year well, in what remains of 2024 so that we can liberate our websites. But one thing that kind of seems to have gotten missed data, liberation it felt was being talked about in terms of getting your Drupal site to WordPress, getting your Shopify site to WordPress.

what about getting your WordPress site? To WordPress. In other words, a migration, WordPress to WordPress. And so the challenge, I'm gonna read off this article, which is by, jaw Design. It was on the 21st of June, the challenge of WordPress to WordPress migrations. this is exciting news for anyone who has ever struggled with that.

Those migrations are going to now be an important part of the data migration project. Making WordPress sites easier to move, could free you from being locked into a specific host, let you set up a local staging environment to test changes, or even let you take a copy of your whole site as an archive. and then the idea of doing that with playground.

It won't go into playground at this point, but it's dead. Cool. something in particular they're excited about is the potential of using WordPress playground. In fact, the primary for pro proposal for making this whole migration WordPress to WordPress thing happen would be through playground, using site transfer Pro protocol, which leans heavily on playground and you can check out the track ticket here.

Anyway, nice to see that this is being done. Honestly, the data liberation project is fine. I'll never use it in the Drupal to WordPress, Shopify to WordPress, LER to WordPress 'cause I'm all about WordPress. I haven't built anything, not WordPress for years. So this is the most exciting bit for me backing something up at the click of a button.

So I'm pleased to see that this is, going forward. Is Matt promised in his address? I dunno if anybody wants to say anything about that. But anyway, the floor is open.

[00:47:31] Remkus de Vries: I think the, I think the, data liberation is, so for the migration, it's an interesting one because the one that comes to mind to me the most is what if you wanna migrate from a particular, page builder to Oh yeah, the site editor or vice versa or whatever.

people can, people can choose whatever they want, but there are going to be people wanting to move away from whatever they're currently using to whatever else. There's out there. If we're building, if we're, so keen on saying that we have, a process and the system in place that is, has the goal of data liberation, we need to, in my opinion, also look at those scenarios because that is also.

Data liberation. the amount of lock in people have on their sites with, some site builder, build it for them. They then use it. They're unaware if the choice is being made, and then for whatever reason they choose to no longer go with their current site builder and they go to a, different agency or whatever, then how do you migrate from this to that?

if data liberation also intends to solve that, then to me that would be proper data liberation, not just from, CMS to CMS or from server A to server B. I'd very much to have the focus on this for as, good or as bad as that's possible. But, yeah.

[00:49:07] Nathan Wrigley: REMCOs, you have a massive fan. the massive fan is Wendy, who, who just says yes in.

Hey, Wendy. Hi Wendy. 10,000 plus for what REMCOs is saying, do you know what's interesting is that piece of it, REMCOs has totally failed to lodge itself in my brain. That in some sense, when I now hear data liberation, I immediately think CMS to CMS and now yeah, WordPress to WordPress.

But you are right. A big promise of that was like Beaver Builder to, I don't know, Gutenberg or whatever it may be. And that's probably a bigger piece, isn't it?

[00:49:45] Remkus de Vries: If, you go back a little bit further than the currently popular, page builders, which are, elementary dv, beaver builder, bricks.

[00:49:58] Birgit Olzem: Visual composer.

[00:49:59] Remkus de Vries: Yeah, there you go. Visual composer. then oxygen and, Oxygen. And there's, more, but there's a whole list. But a few years back you had, hybrid, no. What was it called? No, by, Chris Pearson. Oh.

[00:50:19] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, that's, ages ago.

[00:50:22] Remkus de Vries: It's ages ago. But there's still plenty of sites running that surprised.

[00:50:25] Nathan Wrigley: I know what you mean. And it's gone outta my head as well. Yeah, I, yeah. And they

[00:50:29] Remkus de Vries: probably

[00:50:30] Birgit Pauli-Haack: need a proper revamp instead of just a data ion.

[00:50:34] Remkus de Vries: but the example that solution is, it's, quite the deviation from WordPress. Not a little bit like some of the page builders like, but a lot.

A lot. Yeah. Aren't we? Don't we want to have those? this is gonna sound horrible, but back in the fold, do we not wanna liberate them as well?

[00:50:55] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Sure. I think So. Thesis.

[00:50:58] Remkus de Vries: I

[00:51:00] Nathan Wrigley: think thesis. There you go. Yeah. Courtney. Yeah. No, that I, that piece, has totally dropped outta my head as part of the Data Liberation Pro.

And in fact, that would, especially if you're a WordPress agency taking on legacy websites, that piece is gonna save you so many hundreds of hours of time. oh, that's really interesting how I, forgot about that. Yeah. That's the most important bit that I would obsess about WordPress to.

WordPress. Interesting for me for. Side projects. 'cause I can migrate things easily, command line and things like that. But the, the idea of getting a Beaver builder layout to become a, I don't know, Gutenberg layout, I don't mean layout in the backend. layout on the front end is absolutely fascinating.

Gosh, can you imagine the amount of work that's gonna go into that? And hopefully the, hopefully the vendors of all of those page builders and whatever tools you are using will come along for the ride. 'cause they, it's not just an egress, it could be an ingress of customers. Yeah. It doesn't all have to be all like proprietary page builder to Gutenberg.

It could be proprietary page builder to other proprietary page builder. So it's in their best interest to, to build those solutions in as well. Interesting. Bigot, anything you wanna say on that?

[00:52:14] Birgit Olzem: Yeah, it would make my life much more easier to, have some kind of transfer, when, clients approach me with some visual composer site and once I get to into full set editing and yeah, it's crazy.

I, my, my many page builder, owe me a new haircut or nail hair color appointment because I have so many gray hairs from alone venting about this.

[00:52:47] Nathan Wrigley: This is see, yeah,

[00:52:49] Birgit Olzem: definitely. Yes, white be,

[00:52:51] Nathan Wrigley: and Nathan, this is, what did this, that's why we both got the gray hair. I actually took a, look at a friend site this week.

He, wanted something doing, and I just took one look at it and I was like. Nope. Just No, I'm not, no, there's just, there's too much of that weirdness in there. And it wasn't a page builder, it was a, I don't know, a bunch of custom templates and PHP files and it was

[00:53:15] Birgit Olzem: no. The horror is really, when you have, it was real, more than one page builder installed and not clearance site.

Yes.

[00:53:22] Nathan Wrigley: Interesting. It feels like a really laudable project. Whether or not it'll ever get to the point where it's a hundred percent perfect and everything is satisfied, is very doubtful, but, a nice idea. yeah.

[00:53:33] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. I talked about it, with, one of the agencies and they have for their own migration, build a.

yeah, some code for, WP Builder that was visual composer ages ago to, Gutenberg and I asked them, so would you make that, available for, for the community? And they said, it was such a, hard job for every use case. Yeah. So we only have that start of it, but then we had to modify it.

considerably for every other use case that you cannot, release it for community and then have the expectation that it goes one-to-one. Yeah. So that's one thing. But there are, so I know that 10 Up has, what we didn't talk about is actually classic editor to, to, block editor. Conversion, and I think they are, working on the Gutenberg project on some of it. to make that a little bit less prone that you have to actually look at the page, so to convert it, but to do it through, the backend of it. And, there were quite a few, Tools available that the enterprise, people created, but they're not in the, public domain or in the, creative comments or what you call it GPL.

Yeah. It must Or available for the community. Yeah. So

[00:55:04] Nathan Wrigley: if, you are an agency dealing with clients, it must feel like a bit of a, gut punch. If you, go to that client and, they say, yeah, yes, you've got a WordPress site and I know that you want to carry on using WordPress, but honestly it's a complete rebuild because your previous agency used this thing.

No, Wait, hang on. But it's WordPress. I know. I know it's WordPress, but they use this thing. No, but it's WordPress. We paid them to build as a WordPress website. I know. Calm down. put the gun away. that must be quite galling and a little bit peculiar, especially in the advent of things like Shopify and Squarespace, whereas you go from absolutely one Squarespace to another Squarespace.

Just click a button. Yeah. And it's done. Yeah, okay. Let's move on, quickly, shall we? Next piece is, James ue, who, I think we learned, actually I think we mentioned, the name, but it mku, am I right in saying future teams that you mentioned? You mentioned in your bio, this is you and James collaborating, right?

Yep. Although this piece is o on James's website, and James was there in person at WordCamp Europe and sat as I think many of us did. The auditorium was full, sat through the 11 reasons why the word, why the future of WordPress is bright. And it an interesting take. in the past a lot of the sessions that Matt does have focused on things like statistics and things like that, this was much more of a, I don't know, aspirational thing where he stood up for about 40 minutes and he just was trying to say to everybody, yeah, there's been a lot of doom and gloom.

We focused on the negatives a lot in the recent past, but here. Are some reasons why we might be positive. So this is James's thoughts on Matt's thoughts, if you like, and I've just highlighted a few and there's a lot more to say. You can go and watch it on YouTube, the original thing. So I'm just gonna quickly scan through.

So here we go. Here are some of the things that Matt said. first of all, the first one, of the 11th. Simple things should be easy and intuitive and complex things. Possible. And Matt talks about a big problem that I'm sure we all know about, the rookie problem. And we just mentioned, the data liberation thing adds to the whole miasma of it all.

we haven't figured out how to facilitate new, and probably very importantly, in brackets, younger folks getting into the project, it should be easy and intuitive to collaborate, meet up, participate and in events, et cetera. And I think, we do have this as a bit of a problem in the WordPress space.

I think it is quite hard to understand what's going on. So I dunno if anybody wants to just dwell on that one before I move on to the next one. Oh, okay. the other thing, which Matt. talked about was he was comparing the fact that dynamic sites are better than static sites. So in other words, encourage people to get back into blogging, get people to, use dynamic functionality, which is built inside a WordPress.

Get excited about that and try to get your clients excited about that. Documentation should be easy Wiki, easy, to edit. So at the moment, creating documentation is fraught with difficulties. there's a few, there's a few people that can do it and most people just consume it. But Matt talked about the potential to open it up to something a bit more like a Wikipedia, where anybody can go in and fiddle with the documentation and what have you.

I dunno if I've quite paused that But anyway, that would be a, nice thing. forums bring back the forums. Make forums popular again. I dunno if that ship sailed to be honest. I can't remember the last time I went to anything outside of WordPress, for forums. I tend to do that for other things, but anyway, that, do you consider Reddit as a forum?

I don't really use Reddit, riku, yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:00] Birgit Pauli-Haack: That is a forum. Yeah.

[00:59:00] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay. I can also see

[00:59:02] Birgit Pauli-Haack: that private clubs can, Use BB press and there is an initiative to, rejuvenate BB Press and, body press, yeah. In the community. Yeah. James also said something. Yeah.

[00:59:16] Nathan Wrigley: James also mentioned Discord, which I guess is a kind of it's a SaaS based forum, but it basically is a forum.

It's, backwards and forwards.

[00:59:23] Birgit Olzem: discord is more a chat platform like Slack. Yeah, But it's more extendable and, a lot of use and, in the design space, but also in the gaming space, and yeah.

[00:59:36] Nathan Wrigley: But we've got good forums. the architecture of them works perfectly well, so make more use of them, make them more essential.

The fulcrum of the project. here we go. Plugins and themes with community infrastructure. This, one just jumped right out at me, at least. Anyway. What if it was possible if you were a plugin or theme developer to have? Pre-read. So a bit like we talked about with meet ups having wordpress.com. What about if you could have something ready for you?

So you built a plugin, it's approved on the repo. What if it was ready to go so that you could build out your own kind of, it says here, imagine a future of WordPress where communities grow and plugins and themes are officially supported with deep infrastructure provided by.org. I don't know exactly what that would look like, but that just seems so self-evidently sensible, like a support forum or whatever it may be.

Anyway, I'll just blaze through them and then you can tell me at the end. some of them I didn't want to comment on particularly. so this was the one I was highlighting earlier. We get, we can over, we can't over index the guidelines and requirements. In other words, if there's a good idea, but it's not, ticking a guideline box.

We should let the idea get through. So a good example here was, mentioned by James is the Ollie WP theme, where they had this kind of onboarding wizard, which, which was disallowed by the guidelines as though James said quite rightly it was, taken down and they had to amend that. But would it be sensible in the future to say, if something's good, just let it happen?

Just let it go because it's a good idea and you can see it's a good, again, caveat mTOR, who gets to decide that feedback loops are important. so just, keeping people in the loop, making sure that everybody's talking to one another core should be opinionated and quirky. this struck me as an interesting one.

It felt maybe I'm wrong. It felt like Matt was saying, let's not be boring. Let's be a bit more fun. And have a bit more of a laugh, not just with the websites we produce, but also in the community. And he linked it up to Ja Jamie Marlin's kind of Speed Builds thing, which is a community event.

And it gathered a lot of interest 'cause it was fun and interesting and there was cheering and laughter and people were excited about it and all of that kind of stuff. And on that note, I raise a picture of, at Word Camp Europe when, don't deny it. She stole my camera and took pictures. No,

[01:02:13] Birgit Olzem: I did not.

No she

[01:02:14] Nathan Wrigley: didn't. Jeff did. Just off it. But do you know what I mean? Like injecting quirkiness and weirdness and fun into the project. 'cause do you know what? We've got a generation of kids raised on TikTok and they are not coming to WordPress unless we are gonna be as fun as that. anyway, there you go.

That's probably all the bits and pieces I had say, because he's your friend and colleague. I'm gonna pass this one to. First did anything in those 11 points that you heard resonate and you think that was a good idea?

[01:02:46] Remkus de Vries: So the quirky one actually, yeah, me too. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. But I do have a but hit there.

I think the quirkiness is, I think I'd like to see that more in the project and the people supporting the project. So that's community, that's, all the things we do around it. I don't necessarily think WordPress should be quirky, more quirky than it currently is. Meaning, for instance, the howdy, for instance, I,

I, I'd like to see a little less of that actually. there's weird sentences we're using. 'cause as translators, we come across them, and they make zero sense in any other language than Texan. I, I don't, I, and I said totally agree.

[01:03:35] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard to be funny in, in, in 70 languages.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[01:03:42] Remkus de Vries: And, WebPress has a, lot of this and, I don't, maybe I'm sounding like a 50-year-old, boring geezer, whatever.

[01:03:49] Birgit Pauli-Haack: You are a 50-year-old boy. Oh, sorry. Did I say that out loud?

[01:03:54] Remkus de Vries: Am I the youngest here? Am I the youngest here? I think you probably are.

[01:03:58] Birgit Olzem: No, me, I'm not 50 yet.

I'm 50.

[01:04:04] Remkus de Vries: I'm one of the youngest here. That's right. You go with that to, my point. The, that sort of quirkiness, I, care absolutely zero for, that said, the other quirkiness, the fun part, the, We should start investing time into how we are making this interesting. Jamie hit a jackpot, kudos to Jamie Marsland.

That is absolutely wonderful what he's doing. 'cause not only is it fun and entertaining to watch people actually learn from it. Yeah. And that is the goal, right? So we need, and you are referencing TikTok, but TikTok is a great example of, you can, I had a discussion with, with a few folks, at Workcamp Europe where we.

Basically came to conclusion that the algorithm of TikTok is the best one there is. Because if you are determined to learn in a specific way about a specific type of video, TikTok will show you that, again, exactly that. YouTube not so much X, eh, Facebook is the worst, but TikTok actually provides you what you want.

You, you, it, not interested, not an interest and then maybe search for one thing that you are interested, and then immediately the, your whole, for you page starts to change. But the, my, my point with that is, is that if we are figuring out. How we can incorporate the tick toy type of stuff.

Horrible sentence. but if we can find a way to bring that back to the project, we will get the younger people onboarding more easily. If we also focus on other stuff that will lower the barrier, we will have a fun project that they enjoy learning about because they see the possibility, what they can do with it.

And sure the younger generation is less on the whole, less interested in privacy and, publishing your own content. Owning all of that. But maybe also because we haven't spoken to them in the way they like to be listening to. So if we're saying quirky and that includes that, and to me it should, then hell yeah.

Let's be quirky. Let's be funny. Yeah. Let's be, interesting again. So it's, again, our median age is relatively high versus somebody entering the job market right now. there's a. Quite a bit of chasm between how we look at the world and how they look at the world. And we, should no longer ignore that.

That's a fact. So whatever quirkiness we can add is going to help that.

[01:06:32] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Close

[01:06:32] Remkus de Vries: that chasm.

[01:06:33] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I, think that's really insightful. I think the content creator is especially, you were mentioning Jamie Marlin there, I think just a, total golden bullet that he's created there. Like you say, it satisfies everything.

Yeah. Yeah. And, content creators. So me and bigot and everybody else, and Mku obviously as well. We're, we're, I think maybe this is the thing we need to be a bit more interesting, a bit more funny, a bit more quirky, what have you. Nice to have James Jeru who's joined us actually. That's really nice.

He calls it, homogenization of the web. And Matt is right. It's okay to take ourselves. Sorry. It's okay. Not. To take ourselves seriously. We can be seriously fun and, and then tells REMCOs he's old. I'm just saying, James, I know where your house lives. Yeah. James, just watch out next time.

and then Cameron Boomer is, I don't even know what that word means, but I hear it all the time and I'm assuming it's a sort of slightly adjacent to an insult.

[01:07:29] Remkus de Vries: We're not, boomers. None of No. Here are boomers.

[01:07:32] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[01:07:33] Remkus de Vries: We're generation X.

[01:07:34] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Are we okay? So quirkiness, says Hendricks, I missed the time where we could browse the theme repo and pick a fun theme that was only half complete, but things it did were great.

Interesting. Yeah. Innovation, by the way, on the, subject of f the today's title is gonna be, there's a bot and I have a bot spoken by Remus, slightly earlier in this episode. And they look at him chuckling away, made him giggle. That was the, That was the point. So anyway, there were the 11 pieces.

We didn't mention them all. Bigot and bigot. Bigot pink. Bigot white. Do you wanna chuck your stuff in?

[01:08:16] Birgit Olzem: I guess Aramcos did it right to say, we, really need to reach out to the younger generations and, make it more fun to use WordPress, but also to educate them, on privacy and owning their own content, what open source means to us, and also how it elevates someone, to share their quirkiness, to be more open, and so that they don't rely on certain platforms.

so yeah, why not? on the other hand, I really love the, quote make the, easy sim things simple and the complex possible. I hope that we can work on towards that as well, so that we makes. Easier to, to easier, deal also with complex topics, especially within a, community and address, such things, by not taking us ourselves too seriously, but take it seriously.

yeah, it's my 2 cents on that.

[01:09:19] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you. and white being it.

[01:09:21] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. I, think it, it was right that, Matt named it the number one of the things that he wanted WordPress to be this, simple things, intuitive and the complex possible because the site editor brings a lot of concept to WordPress, non coders or site builders that they didn't have to deal with it before.

what's the difference between a page and a post? It's a long time, 20 years kind of explanation. Yeah. But what's the difference between a, a template and a page? Yeah. There were some confusions in Okay, adding in, I'm now a page or a template where people then were surprised that they changed something and it was changed all over the website.

Yeah. So I, think we need to kinda really look at the interfaces and that's, to, take the confusion out to have the intuitive kind of come in again. and now that, some of the features have really settled well, I think that could be a focus on the design team, and the developer team that I think, will be really, helpful.

also for the, rookie problem. that we had. And I, yeah, that's pretty much that, the quirkiness. yeah, I'm myself not particularly funny, so I'm all quirky, so I'm having a hard time thinking that. But what I've thought on word, Camp Europe was, I don't know who we talk about when we say younger generation.

I saw a lot of people that, from my age, I would say they're hardly 15 years old, but they're probably, yeah, 25, 28 or something like that. But the younger generation is there. We could use more of them. but, yeah, and learn from them. What, is the TikTok key? Way of presenting content and look at them, what they're doing when they talk to their own, audiences.

[01:11:18] Nathan Wrigley: So Cameron says, so obviously Cameron's coming out of Australia at the moment. He was in the UK for a long time, but there weren't that many events going on at that point, but he'd come to Word Camp Europe, so he said, seriously need to do something to attract the younger people. Says he is almost 30.

Good grief. I remember the days vaguely. I'm almost 30. And the only people who are younger than me at NWP events are, I don't know what that word is. What is that word? Nepo babies. I don't know what that word is. that won't keep it going for too long. Yeah, that's interesting. And you heard it here first, the gauntlet's been thrown down.

James is challenging REMCOs to a TikTok dance at. Yeah, I'll see that. And

[01:12:00] Birgit Olzem: I know REMCOs is really hard in, in dancing. I remember the first week Europe and Laden the party after party. yeah. Brilliant.

[01:12:09] Nathan Wrigley: Can I, recommend a two round contest Round one? You and James Head to head and we've gotta do this right?

'cause it's fun. round one is you and James in a TikTok dance off, and then round two is lifting heavy objects. Thank you. Over something high you. Yeah. Thank you. And then maybe that'll even it up, I don't know. And then we need a third round and, I dunno what that could be, but James, you up for it.

You've said it. We can see it's in black and white. So

[01:12:40] Remkus de Vries: I'll say in, my defense, the only thing I do not watch on TikTok are the dances. I don't care for those. Oh,

[01:12:47] Nathan Wrigley: okay. you'll have to educational

[01:12:49] Remkus de Vries: content.

[01:12:49] Nathan Wrigley: Your constant study from now until WordCamp US is gonna have to be TikTok dances and you'll have to.

Problem, get, the moves. What we could do is combine the two categories and do weightlifting whilst dancing, but I fear injuries would be, would maybe be the result. if I was young again and starting out, I wouldn't want to use WordPress says Atif. See, that's interesting and I wonder how prevalent that is when it was lockdown.

we're going back five years ago now. I, had this ambition. My kids were off school. I said, I'm gonna teach my kids how to use WordPress. I had all three of them gathered round. Honestly, two hours was what I got out of them. Then they all managed to find other things to do and never came back.

And and I did think to myself, gosh. They know how important this is to me. they know that this is what I do. They know that they've got an expert, not an expert, but somebody that can do it, sat next to them. Still not that interested. so yeah, Atif. Fair enough. Fair play. I wonder if that's something we need to do.

Oh, and Patricia, look at this. We've got our own little, like little people. helpful bunch of people here. Wikipedia, Nepo Baby. Short for nepotism Baby is a term referring to celebrities whose parents have succeeded in the same careers. Interesting. So it's basically people who've got, so that's like me trying to teach my par, my children.

Damn it. WordPress only you would the

[01:14:15] Remkus de Vries: explanation

[01:14:15] Nathan Wrigley: right before you turn, I'm only unknown before Patricia. Flip that on the screen. Darn it. Cameron, you've nailed me. Two across Nepo Babies are, the other ones are ones who are only there 'cause their parents are there. Yeah, I have never brought my, my children to a WordPress event.

I feel that would be too much for them. Although now that we've got dancing, TikTok dancing competitions built in, that would fucking, and, I can't read look at re because he's like, why died? is this what's happening? I also wouldn't use WPF. I was starting over and knew what I do now.

[01:14:50] Remkus de Vries: Oh,

[01:14:51] Nathan Wrigley: this is interesting. Okay. Can we block

[01:14:53] Remkus de Vries: camera now?

[01:14:54] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's right. And Atif, you are no longer welcome in the community. That's right. At 22, you're only

[01:15:00] Remkus de Vries: welcoming up to this point. That's right. Yeah. If you say anything

[01:15:03] Nathan Wrigley: bad, you're no longer welcome. at 22 years old at the Switzerland Community Day, this is Patricia by the way.

last March said that if we had young influencers on TikTok, like competing proprietary platforms, pay for it would be a game changer.

[01:15:19] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Interesting. So not the old GI doing TikTok.

[01:15:23] Remkus de Vries: Yeah.

[01:15:23] Nathan Wrigley: We

[01:15:23] Birgit Pauli-Haack: need the young ones to enter. Yeah. Influencing. Yeah.

[01:15:27] Remkus de Vries: I do have a TikTok account and there are some videos of me, but, yeah, care to

[01:15:32] Nathan Wrigley: share the, URL there, MKU,

[01:15:35] Remkus de Vries: you know what my name is, I'm not hard.

[01:15:37] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Just everybody. tiktok.com/mku. Dre. I don't know if that's it, but, anyway, that was really a fascinating conversation and what I enjoyed about it. Listening to Matt's presentation, I just got this sense of optimism Totally. Which, when I listened to those presentations, normally I come out and it is very much, it is often fairly dry and database and what have you.

And whilst it's interesting, that one made me sit up by the third point, I was like, gosh, this is going in a new and interesting direction. So I appreciated what, Matt did there. I thought that was kind, interesting. And, Barry just saying Hi. Hi Barry. Nice to have you with us, buddy. Hi there.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Just one quick, Keeping it fun, keeping it fun. There's, there again, at you

[01:16:27] Remkus de Vries: share my version in the, private package. Oh.

[01:16:30] Nathan Wrigley: Have you, got something I need to see? Hold on, Let me just try and copy and paste that my, my browser doesn't like it when I try to use the copy and functionality in this platform.

You've got a flicker one you found. Ah,

that's great. So Remus did, as he was told, he went and found a picture on Flickr.

That's a winner. Oh, that's so good.

[01:16:58] Remkus de Vries: I, love that. Louder is sitting there so dead.

[01:17:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Not aware of what's going on in the background. Send us all of your silly pictures. That's absolutely brilliant. Look at that T-shirt. What does it say on that t-shirt? Remus? Scan fully now, then look at that.

There's a segue for you.

I saw that one coming like a pro. MKU has been on the show many, times before and he is alluded to, scan fully. he's mentioned that it's been coming and, what have you. And now it says we're live. So go on Rimkus, just give us the skinny what's Scan fully, who are you in partnership with and who's your intended audience.

Just tell us all about it.

[01:17:40] Remkus de Vries: Wow. That's, we have, yeah, you've got

[01:17:43] Nathan Wrigley: 12 seconds starting next.

[01:17:45] Remkus de Vries: so I, scan is Buddy and I buddy was just saying hi. Oh, got

[01:17:51] Nathan Wrigley: it. Nice.

[01:17:52] Remkus de Vries: Yep. So it's, it's a WordPress site health and performance monitoring tool. it's meant to solve problems in terms of performance and health that you have on your site, but you're not aware I.

we have a whole suite currently of, features, which, all intend to already make you much more in, in contact with what, is actually the performance of your site. So we have an uptime mon monitor, performance monitor. we bring in the site health section that's inside your WebPress site where we bring it in a nicer dashboard.

We have an events timeline so you can see what's happening inside your WebPress. So if the client says, look, I don't know what happened, but my site is completely full barred, you can say, what was the last change you did? And you'll say, they'll say, nothing. And you can then look at our dashboard and go oh, but your user, maybe not you, but your user changed this at that and that time, and this is why that is fubar.

and all that comes with notifications. and yeah, we launched last week, and there's plenty of more stuff we're going to add going forward, but the goal is essentially to help you find. The healthiest version of your WordPress site. And that's, you can throw any metric at us and we'll eventually incorporate it.

[01:19:11] Nathan Wrigley: So Scan fully can be found at the, easy to remember. Scan fully.com. this is, we, this is the, we live, blog post. So I guess if I go to scan fully.com, we'll end up at the homepage. So here's probably a bit more of the marketing material about what you're gonna get, but I dunno if you noticed on the, on the page, I'll just go back.

I dunno how long this is gonna go on for, but at the moment it looks like you're offering a discount, but I can't say from what to what, but it's, 2, 2 99 at the moment per site. Is that like a, an introductory offer for the next week or so, or

[01:19:48] Remkus de Vries: No? No, it'll be there a little bit longer, but, it is an introductionary offer.

we just don't know how long the introduction will be.

[01:19:56] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. But.

[01:19:58] Remkus de Vries: Could be a couple of months.

[01:19:59] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so you've, you heard it here, probably third, not first because, REMCOs has definitely mentioned this before. But scan for.com. Go check it out.

[01:20:10] Remkus de Vries: thank you. REMCOs. oh, intended audience that maybe, oh yeah, that's, oh yes, please answer.

we built it for essentially anybody who cares for their site to be healthy. we think theoretically that's everybody, but we're aware that if you make money with your site, it's a little bit more prevalent. we also built it A-B-A-P-I first, meaning we can integrate any and all features into anyone's dashboard.

obviously, probably some programming on their side as well. But we are, for instance, larger agencies that have their, their metrics in a dashboard or hosting companies that wanna add one or multiple of our features. All of those are essentially, we consider our target audience.

[01:20:55] Nathan Wrigley: you have a.

You have somebody that's on board by the looks of it, it likes the look of it. This is Elliot, scan for, looks great from what I've seen so far. Looking forward to seeing, what the new features are that are going to be added in the future.

[01:21:09] Remkus de Vries: so Elliot is if, I may say, thank you Elliot.

'cause, and, also thank you for being the very first paid customer,

[01:21:19] Nathan Wrigley: Elliot from Yorkshire. Oh, that's so nice. He lives just down the road from me. Once when I had to go for a hospital appointment, I asked him where I could park and he was very helpful. he's been helpful to me and he is been helpful to you.

Yes. Elliot? Elliot for the win, I think we should drag into WordCamp US and get him to do TikTok videos. Speaking of which, at WordCamp us Hasia, sorry. Hassa, I dunno how to pronounce your name. I'm really sorry. Y YMA. Okay. Thank you. at Word Camp US 2024, we tried to do more video content.

Welcome. Ew. Ah, yes. Apologies. I've just got that in my head now. Word, camp EU 2024. We tried to do more video content in the form of reels on Instagram. I guess that is. So I feel like we're trying to move, more towards catering to the, on younger generation, but obviously it was not on TikTok. We don't put this out on TikTok, but I can't see how this, show's ever gonna work on TikTok.

Scroll through to watch an hour and a half of this week in WordPress summarized in. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, thank you, for that comment. That's really nice. But, there you go. Scan lee.com. Go and check it out. Thank you Mku, for bringing that to our attention. Rimkus

[01:22:31] Birgit Pauli-Haack: have a question. Was a really only three, three euros per or dollars per site as an introductory offer or is it correct.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that's a cool

[01:22:42] Remkus de Vries: price. If, you create an account, you'll see what we currently are targeting as our, most likely, eventual price. but it's, yeah.

[01:22:56] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Thank you. Okay. So a discount can be had scan freely.com, check it out in the next week or so, few weeks, and be able to see everything that it can do.

Okay. we're gonna have to go at like really ridiculous speed because we've more or less run outta time. But I've just wanna a few quick things. The theme directory has had a complete overhaul, and is now built. Oh.

[01:23:20] Birgit Pauli-Haack: If you read that, it says it's not a complete overhaul. Okay. It was just a refresh.

[01:23:24] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Thank you. All right. Yeah. you're perhaps pausing the langu incorrectly. It's got a visual, it's got a massive visual change, refresh, but it looks really, different. And there's a couple of things that I just want to, to mention that I like. firstly, it's got that new. WordPress aesthetic.

It just looks like a lot of the other properties that you can find [email protected]. these things are really nice, so you can now go in and di dig down in some sort of faceted search for, number of columns and what have you. And then you can add in features like accessibility, ready, block editor patterns, editor styles, block themes, body press, interesting one, custom background, custom colors, and then you can drill down by, a category of what it might be suitable for.

So that's what that look like, looks like. And obviously that's, broadly what you'd expect, But then if you click on one and I'll just click in 2024. Go on. REMCOs, what were you saying?

[01:24:19] Remkus de Vries: I was gonna say the next click and the click after are where the magic is.

[01:24:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, this is where the magic is, right?

So this is the nice new look. so couple of things. You've got the option to adapt the style variation, so you can see at the click of a button. I recall earlier that one of these wasn't working, so oh no, they all seem to be working now. Maybe it was on a particular one. So you can see a whole bunch of star variations.

Obviously levering the technology that's built inside a WordPress now. It's really nice, the usual different bits and pieces that you used to see before in terms of ratings and what have you. Then, a bunch of back patterns, and you can show all the patterns, all of that. But here's the, bit.

Here's the best bit. The button, the preview button. Click the preview button. I'm gonna do it in a new tab. Da Open it up. Look at that. Wait for three seconds. Ready to go. Ready to go. example of what this website might look like, I'm probably clicking around far too quickly, but how nice is that?

The ability to really get a perfect understanding of what your website would look like with the, with the different content. So you're looking at patterns and various different things. So that all comes from the preview button. My understanding is that preview button is opt-in by the theme developer because we had a, fun moment, I don't know, six months ago, where that was turned on by default.

And, anyway, I just think that's really nice, bringing it to the masses, making it more easy to understand what your theme we're gonna is gonna do. over to you guys, if you wanna comment on that.

[01:25:52] Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I really like it. it has this one nice clean, design from the rest of the WebPress, site WebPress org site, and the preview is really amazing.

Yeah. as well as looking at the style variations. The old one had that too, but at somehow, oh, I never

[01:26:10] Nathan Wrigley: really interacted with that. Thank you. Okay. Yeah,

[01:26:12] Birgit Pauli-Haack: it, really feels, it feels so much nicer now and so much more inviting to actually click on things. so yeah. good, choice and yeah, kudos to the meta team who Pulled this off.

[01:26:25] Nathan Wrigley: It's oh, I'm not even gonna make that joke. It was rubbish. I'm just gonna leave it lying there. so yeah, that is now wordpress.org/themes. You can go and check that out. It looks really, nice. I'm just gonna quickly move on, where we've just been looking at that.

Couple of deals to mention just before we go, fluent, the guys behind Fluent Themes and fluent CRM and all of that kinda stuff. They've got a new product called Fluent Boards, which they've got on a lifetime deal at the moment. If you go to fluent boards.com. You'll be able to, check that out.

Another deal at the moment is this thing, it's called Grid Builder. It's a faceted search thing for WordPress. 30% off at the moment. You can check that out if that's your thing. And also if you're looking for a WooCommerce rival, north Commerce is a plugin that you can download and they've got themselves on App Sumo at the moment, which is interesting.

I dunno what the pricing model is, but they seemed, oh, here we go. $49. I dunno what that gets you, but scrolling down will probably tell us. that's for one site, but it's App Sumo, so it's a lifetime thing. You'd have that for life. So anyway, there you go. Mku, it looks like you wanna butt in there.

[01:27:33] Remkus de Vries: No, I was gonna say I'm 50, so it's a short life, but left, but Okay.

[01:27:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I like it. okay. And just round it off. I've learned

[01:27:42] Remkus de Vries: to do self-deprecating humor. Yeah. No,

[01:27:44] Nathan Wrigley: it's good. It's good. It's the, most desired outcome. okay. Bigot has got a couple of things. I'm so sorry. Bigot. We're gonna be in such a rush, unless of course you guys are happy to stick around for an extra, like two or three minutes whilst Bigot explains it.

We're short. Give us a thumbs up. Bigot. Bigot. Bigot. Yeah. And are you happy for another five minutes or so? Yeah. Gimme the, okay. So here we are. The wq community collective.com. Yeah. Incentivizing, DEIB in WordPress.

[01:28:15] Birgit Olzem: I'm so grateful for Courtney Robertson and Siri to even launching this initiative, the WP Community Collective, even if they currently looking for a new fiscal host to host the.

Raised funds, but I love that they are taking into account to raise funds or give stipends to contributors who actively advocating for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. And, so that folks who are really interested into that, and it's also more in the non quarter, work contribution. And they are, Promoting that and helping, supporting someone who's maybe going to the WordCamp, maybe is not a speaker, but a contributor who wants to go to the contributor day. especially when like I needed to raise funds to go to WordCamp Europe this year, because I wasn't accepted as a speaker this year.

I'm fine with that, but it left out, to apply for some speaker assistance travel fund. So I needed to crowdfund because I was as a table lead for the DIB working group for the diversity equity inclusion belonging table there. And maybe it sparked the idea. I don't know exactly, but I really appreciate that, Courtney and say, opted into, raise this as a project within a, community collective.

And, thanks for that. Really, appreciate it.

[01:29:53] Nathan Wrigley: Sorry. You carry on.

[01:29:54] Birgit Olzem: Please reach out. Also, if you have further questions, to the project, reach out to Courtney Robertson and Siri. They're doing great. So I'm gonna look

[01:30:03] Nathan Wrigley: to this into the show notes. This particular article is called Incentivizing, DEIB in wp, and the headline is the WP Community Collectives, incentivizing, DEIB in WP program aims to promote diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging within the WordPress community.

And then, the program financially supports individuals who promote DEIB via the WordPress community within a specific event or role. And they will provide, I guess there are criteria on the application process stipends of between $202,000. And here are all the requirements down here. So we will link to that in the show notes.

And yeah, that's the first one that you wanted to bring to my attention. And the other one. Was your little word camp, your recap, I think, did you want to say something about that?

[01:30:52] Birgit Olzem: It's, it's not my personal recap. It's, more the, recap of, yeah, apologies. Yeah. The, freshly created DIB working group.

I proposed last year on the same occasion. The question, if we can have established a formal DIB team within a WordPress community, It didn't get a, that answer I wanted to get. But we reached a goal that, we had a Slack channel on make breakfast, slack account, and we got a GitHub repository where we collect our issues and tasks.

And I put a recap on our first official contributor date table. We had a dedicated table for, promoting diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in WordPress. And I did a small recap on what we have achieved during the day. And I'm really glad that we had the chance to also, collaborate with Italian community.

They did a survey on contributor in the state of DIB and, the goal is to have this, survey, localized for each local community with the same questions, with the same set of questions, so that every local community can also survey the state of the DIV within WordPress. But still there's a lot of work to do.

And I just want to go on the comment of Jane Saru. I'm still. Working on to that we have maybe some form of people and culture team, within the WordPress community. There are so many overlappings with the sustainability team and the mentorship, contributor mentorship group, and the fight for the future initiative and the community team.

There's so much confusion going on, but also a lot of overlapping because sustainability isn't. Only the environmental sustainability, but also the social and the economical sustainability. But the perception within the community is not that, obviously, that everything falls maybe under the sustainability.

So I propose this year again to have a really dedicated people and culture team. And even if it should be ingrained in every team and every contributor to be respectful and be inclusive as much as possible, all teams maybe need some shared resources to find how to apply the DIB principles in their daily work.

And that is why I still like to have some dedicated team where other contributors can go to and get education and educate themselves and so on. So a lot of work.

[01:33:35] Nathan Wrigley: So thank you B. Yeah, that's really amazing. So I will link to. Both of those pieces in the show notes that come out with this. And, I think that's probably as much as we can do on this particular episode of this week in WordPress.

Next week it'll be episode 300. It's got two zeros. It's a big milestone. but we'll do nothing different. It'll just be exactly the same. So maybe I'll have a TikTok video by then. Who knows? you should. You should. You should. It's not gonna have no, the kids need to do one. Nobody wants to see me dancing at all.

there's other stuff

[01:34:12] Remkus de Vries: you can do. Nathan. Don't limit it to dancing.

[01:34:14] Nathan Wrigley: Oh,

[01:34:15] Remkus de Vries: no.

[01:34:16] Nathan Wrigley: no. What about the challenge? No, I'm shutting this topic down. no, no more. so that's it. That's all we've got time for this week. I appreciate our three guests. First of all, where is he? Mku over there. and I. White bigot, Pauly hack over there and pink bigot, bigot elza down there.

I should say, the reason that I'm saying white and pink is 'cause they're wearing a white and pink t-shirt and it seemed to be the best way of doing it. But, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you to you, those people in the comments. Thanks for staying with us and making the show a lot more interesting than it would otherwise be.

It's really great to have interaction from the commentators. That's really great. And there's only one more thing to do. And that is we all need to push our chairs back and get ready to dance. 'cause I've got no is to wave the hands like that. Let's do, yeah. Re because he's dancing. Look, we got him. He's actually, look at him.

Go. That's perfect. Honestly, I think this has got legs Remus. This time in September. September. It's coming mate. Whether you like it or not, you are. Bring it on. Bring it on, boy. Boy. He says, he says, it says, oh, come on. Quick comment before we go. Remus is doing a strongman thingy on tick. Oh, she's been pig bitch.

Patricia's gone to have a look. Yeah, I won't see Nathan. No you don't. No. That comment's going away very quickly. We'll go. We'll be back this time next week for episode three. Alright, take care. Have a good week. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye.