This Week in WordPress #163

This Week in WordPress #163

“Get Robert on Speeddial”

This week’s WordPress news – Covering The Week Commencing 10th May 2021

With Nathan Wrigley, Paul Lacey (@wp_paullacey), Ronald Gijsel (@just2ronald), Topher DeRosia (@topher1kenobe), and Joe Casabona (@jcasabona).

You can find the Newsletter here which has all the links mentioned in this episode:
https://news.wpbuilds.com/issues/163/

We focus on the following stories:

Nathan Wrigley

Nathan Wrigley

Nathan writes posts and creates audio about WordPress on WP Builds. He can also be found in the WP Builds Facebook group.

The WP Builds podcast is sponsored this week by…

The Page Builder Summit 3.0 – 18th > 22nd Novermber 2021. FREE to attend

and

The WP Builds Deals Page

We thanks them for their support of WP Builds.

Transcript (if available)

These transcripts are created using software, so apologies if there are errors in them.

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Nathan Wrigley: [00:00:00] It's time for this week in WordPress episode, number 163 entitled. Get Robert on speed dial. It was recorded on Monday, the 17th of May, 2021 as always this week, I'm joined by Paul Lacey, my cohost, but I'm also joined on usually by three additional guests making for five on the panel today, which is fun.
We were joined today by Joe Casabona. We were also joined by. Ronald Gijsel and by Topher DeRosia as well. So we talk about the WordPress news this week. We decided to keep it down to a relatively small number of articles. The first one was all about how give WP has been acquired by liquid web. And luckily, Joe had the scoop on that this week.
We also talked about how Robert Jacobi has been hired by cloud ways to represent all of their WordPress initiatives. We also talk very briefly about how the page builder summit went during the last week, and then we move on to generate press 2.0. And the fact that you can now build aspects of your theme with generate press and blocks.
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Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello everybody. Good, good afternoon. Good morning. Good day, depending on wherever you may be WP Bell's weekly WordPress news episode. One 63, I believe it is now 163, um, as always joined by some fabulous WordPress people. And we're going to have a little bit of a discussion. We've got a very lightweight set of things to talk about today.
That means that there's less to talk about. So we'll have more time to talk about each one, which will be really nice as always joined by, um, for the first time I'm going to point the wrong way. No, I've got it right joined by my cohost Paul Lacey. And in a moment I will get him to join, uh, Ronald Joe and tofa properly.
But, um, just before we do all that, if you would like to make any comments about this, you can either join us in our Facebook group, which is WP builds.com forward slash Facebook. Or you can go to WP builds.com forward slash live. Um, and you. You can need to be logged into Google. If you'd like to make some comments there.
If you happen to be in Facebook, then please click on the stream yard link. You'll have to actually search through the thread of this post and right at the bottom, it'll say something like stream yard.com forward slash I dunno what it says, but it says something. And if you click on that, it enables us to see your picture and get your name.
Otherwise it just says anonymous Facebook user or something like that. But that's, if you would like to comment right poll, I'm going to hand it over to you to introduce our fine guests today.
Paul Lacey: [00:04:08] Oh, thanks, Nathan. And how are you today, Nathan? Because you've, you've been recovering from the page go to summit.
Are you, um, have you had some sleep and a couple of beers and yes,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:04:17] no, both of those things, all three of those things. It's it was, we'll talk more about that. I think later. Yeah. I feel, I feel rejuvenated and, uh, and less tired than I did, uh, 72 hours ago. Thank you.
Paul Lacey: [00:04:30] Fantastic. Well, okay, well, I'll introduce everybody here.
We've got here today. Like Nathan says, we've got five of us today and we do have a guest who we haven't had on before and he is tofa de Rosia. Did I say that right? Diverse. Yeah.
Topher DeRosia: [00:04:44] A little more Z H and then Daraja
Paul Lacey: [00:04:48] well then I'll for next time. Sophie's the lead WordPress strategists at CAMBA creative and community ambassador for big commerce.
I didn't know that actually, uh, you've been a web developer for over 25 years and a WordPress developer for over 10. And you were from grand rapids, uh, where you live with your wife, uh, Kate and daughters, Emma and Sophia, you haven't mentioned in your, um, in your profile here that you actually also run hero press that's right?
Yeah, I do. Uh, I read press.com. Is it, or is it.org? Is it.com.com [email protected]? We'll talk a bit, a little bit about that later as well. And you were just telling us earlier that you have bought, um, like you're selling your house or you're moving out of your house and not selling a house.
Topher DeRosia: [00:05:36] Uh, we recently bought an RV.
Cool on our, on our plan is for my wife and I to live in it, but our children are going to stay at the house and they're adults. Now
Paul Lacey: [00:05:45] it's one way to escape. They have day jobs. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. And stuff. Yeah. No. Cool, awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to, because you did say that you're going to try and visit all the WordPress people that you know, so you know, me and Nathan now and run all day over here in the UK.
So, you know, we
Topher DeRosia: [00:06:00] really fast when I hit the east coast. Yup.
Paul Lacey: [00:06:03] Yup. Brilliant. 88 miles an hour. That's what you need to hear. Thank you. Um, also we have returning guests and good friend of mine run or to sell and Ronald you're the partnership manager at yes. And that's the company behind lots of word WooCommerce plugins.
And you also more recently, co-hosts a weekly London, WooCommerce meetup, and the host of the round table discussion as part of the builder community events. And is that something you do with Bob WP? Is that right? That's right.
Ronald Gijsel: [00:06:32] Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, the London one is almost one year in the making. So we soon to hit our 50th, uh, episode.
So take away two weeks of a Christmas break we were doing, we were catching up with episode 163. So
Nathan Wrigley: [00:06:49] I lied. It was we're on episode 382, I thought, okay, well I'll give up.
Paul Lacey: [00:06:55] But the reality is where something like 161, because if we do actually skip an episode, the system forces us to have the number anyways, so, oh yeah, that's true.
Yeah. Yeah. But let's, let's just, no one needs to know about that. We're just keep that with us anyway. And, uh, last but not least, we have Joe Casabona and Joe is a podcast to educator and WordPress. What was wrong with today? WordPress developer, we have over 20 years experience in the space and these days he helps create is create more easily.
And he's also the host of. The how I built it podcast. And Joe's got his new picture on the wall. Last time, last time you're on the show you get in your new picture and I was getting my new picture and I've got it. And you've got your new picture. I mean, that is that's the first news shows
Joe Casabona: [00:07:42] that shows the time has progressed and that people should watch these episodes in order.
So that. They, they, they need to figure out which of these pictures is of the new one.
Paul Lacey: [00:07:51] Yep. Yeah. I've also got a new kind of plaque thing on the wall that you can see. It says never give up, but it's kind of blurred out with the camera today, but my, my picture is way bigger than it looks like. It's absolutely huge, but the camera seems to have kind of made it just look slightly bigger than my head.
It's like a joke
Nathan Wrigley: [00:08:08] on father Ted. No, no Dougal, no Dougal. This cow is really small that cow. Is far away.
Paul Lacey: [00:08:18] I'm gonna, I'm gonna really offend you now. Knife. And I never really watched father Ted and that's really bad. Okay. If you're from the UK to not watch father Ted, but I've never watched it, but anyway, I'm sorry to catch you up at some point.
Yeah. I'll catch it at some point, but anyway, so we should probably get onto the news items as well. And um, like Nathan said, we've, we've not got too many today, but we've got some really good talking pieces. So the first one up, uh, Nathan, if you want to do the honors with sharing the screen, if you could, I
Nathan Wrigley: [00:08:46] surely can, let me just make sure I've got the right screen up, which is this one.
Oh, look at this lovely.
Paul Lacey: [00:08:54] give, uh, an a news item around, give WP and give WP. The donation plugin has been acquired by the big hosting company, liquid web. And we're really thankful today because we've got Joe Casabona Ron, who was the. Person who actually officially broke the news first, as far as I understand.
And I've listened to your podcast as well. So this is, uh, on the screen at the moment on how I built it. Uh, how I built it is the podcast episode that Joe recorded with Matt and Devin, who are the co-founders of give WP, where they talk about the actual, the acquisition itself and how it came about in the future.
And that kind of thing. I've listened to it. I don't know if any of you guys are listening to it, but Joe, I don't know if you want to kind of summarize, you know, what you found out in that conversation and anything else that you might know that you're at Liberty to tell us about, um, any kind of offer conversations that you had?
Cause it was just kinda like, uh, it was like the initial announcement podcast radio, wasn't it?
Joe Casabona: [00:09:53] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, um, yeah, we got to, we got to record this interview a couple of days before the announcement. Uh, and so, uh, as soon as the press, I was kind of watching, um, both the give WP site and the liquid web press releases page.
And as soon as one of those published, I hit publish on the episode. I had it all up and ready and I just hit publish everywhere that needed to be. Um, and so I was, I mean, I was, uh, honored and flattered that, uh, the give WP guys came to me. Um, I think they also went to Matt Madeiros, uh, for the WP minute and he released an interview there too.
So, um, he asked a couple of different questions in me. So I think you get a good, full picture that, that we coordinated or anything. Um, and I think the main thing that Matt and Devin wanted to communicate here was that nothing is really changing for customers. Nothing is changing, uh, organizationally. So, uh, they had a couple of really important, um, you know, a couple of important, um, things that they, they needed to.
Uh, make sure stayed in place even with the acquisition. And so, uh, we talked about how it came about how, uh, Chris lemma approached, uh, Devin and Matt in, in December, uh, and to figure out kind of how they could work together. We talked about the acquisition process, which is always interesting to me because you need to do your due diligence.
I always joke that if anybody wanted to acquire any of my properties, uh, it would be just a total nightmare because they don't have separate bookkeeping for any of them. It just all flows through and you're supposed to, or you're going to have to kind of figure that out later. So, um, and, and we, yeah, we just had a pretty candid conversation about, um, what it's going to be like moving forward and, and the ability to, to get them more resources, to do more of the things that they're going to do, uh, the ability to hire more and.
Um, I think they're having, as we record this, they're having a town hall tomorrow, uh, May 18th, uh, at, I think I want to say 11 Eastern, but I'm not a hundred percent on that. Um, where, where they'll be answering more questions with Joe Osterling, um, of, of liquid web. And, um, and so, yeah, it's just, I think that they answered a couple of questions.
I was really interested in. We didn't talk, I didn't ask numbers or anything like that. Cause that's generally not something that people make public, uh, but you know, how it came about and kind of the, some of the, um, what would be like a no deal situation. Um, we, we talked about some of those things and, um, I'm really excited in general for both liquid web and give WP.
I'm a big fan of, of both of those companies and, uh, seeing them come together. I think it's going to be really good. And I'll just say that liquid web's track record here. Is very good. Right? Cause they acquired, I themes and themes has basically been a separate entity. Um, they acquired, uh, the events calendar recently.
I talked with them on my podcast about that and they've acquired a few other things that are still operating as those separate things. So, uh, again, I'm really excited for, for all everyone, everyone involved.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:13:11] Hmm. Joe, may I ask a quick question? Do you know, did they take everybody along for the ride? All of the previous employees apart from that?
Yeah.
Joe Casabona: [00:13:19] Yeah. That's a great question. And that, that I think was one of the deal breakers. Um, if, if they couldn't, so everybody at give WP is, uh, still an employee under the, uh, liquid web brand. Uh, and there as far as, as far as I know, as far as Matt and Devin have said, they're gonna still basically operate as an autonomous entity.
Um, but they'll be able to get. More financial support from LiquidWeb, uh, you know, more team members and, and more cross stuff. That's one of the things we talked about, right? Because you can imagine if you're having like a fundraising event, maybe you can marry, uh, the events calendar and give WP in, in a better way because they fall under the same family and they have more access to each other that way.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:14:08] I feel like, um, give WP, I've got a, like a social reach, really, really impressive social reach. Maybe that's largely because of Michelle Frechette, who, who I know and, you know, I follow her on Twitter. So maybe that's the pipeline through which it comes at me, but it feels like they're, they're constantly doing things socially and constantly making waves and noise.
So it seems like a, a great, a great match for, uh, yeah.
Joe Casabona: [00:14:33] Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly. I think they do a really, really good job. I think if you're in the WordPress space and you want like a master class on how to engage and build a community, give WP, is it? And I interviewed Michelle, well, it's not out yet, but, um, I have an upcoming episode with Michelle on exactly that because I've been trying to do more of that on my side.
So, um, yeah, if you, if you want to see how they do things cause like Michelle and Taylor as well, I think they just do a great job of reaching more people, putting out valuable content and building that community. Mm.
Paul Lacey: [00:15:07] Hmm. I think you're right. I mean, the, um, okay. Yeah.
Topher DeRosia: [00:15:13] Um, Michelle do a wonderful, wonderful job, but give us doing it at a job before they came on as well.
Um, it's so, uh, I don't want to detract from what Michelle and Taylor are doing, but I think it's, it shows the wisdom of give WP and to get those two, to do that job because they're good at it. Um, because they were doing a good job before as well. Um, so it's, uh, it's been a longstanding thing is they're, they're not just recently figured it out and doing great.
They've been doing a great job for a long time.
Paul Lacey: [00:15:48] It's one of those companies where you feel you. Can see past the brand to the people. I think that's why it's super important that they do maintain the team. Um, and the, and, um, I know that when, uh, when there is acquisitions like this, you'll always see, you know, on social media, let's say on Facebook or something, you just don't have this facility on Twitter, but on Facebook you'll have sad faces, crying, faces, angry faces.
Then you'll have like happy faces and hearts and all that sort of stuff. But there's always kind of a few people who are not too happy about this sort of thing. And, um, I mean, personally, my take on, you know, any sort of commercial thing, whether it's someone doing a job or a company, is that at some point it comes to a situation where it needs to evolve or move on or clothes or something like that.
And especially when you have a couple of founders, you know, who've worked hard for a long, long time. What are they supposed to do work exactly the same forever? Are they supposed to just keep doing it so that you know, the community for the couple of seconds, when they take notice, don't get upset about it.
So I'm very happy for the, um, for the founders. First of all, because this is a seriously cool achievement. I don't like, like you say, we don't know the numbers, but you would imagine that is significant. I think you said on the podcast, Joe, they've got like 23, 24 members of staff. So there's a lot of people to pay there.
The company probably already is pretty profitable, I would imagine. And they've been steering it really, really well. Like we said, the social media goes really, really well. Um, but Joe, did you get a chance to talk to anyone from, from liquid web itself? Like, well, I'm just wondering like, like there's a lot of, uh, acquisitions, like what, I mean, I think I know the answer, but.
And this is to anyone actually on the panel. Why is, why is there so much acquisitions right now? What what's going on? What are people trying to, what are these companies trying to achieve? What are they trying to do?
Joe Casabona: [00:17:46] Yeah, so I, I, haven't gotten to talk to somebody from LiquidWeb, I'll say yet. Um, not that I'm trying particularly hard, but I have a lot of people there.
So it's, it is mostly speculation on my part, but I think, I think this kind of great consolidation we're seeing, starting to happen a few years ago. Right? We saw agencies acquire other agencies. Um, and, and you see, we're seeing a transition from I'm a developer. I can make a plugin and start a business because WordPress, the ecosystem is small enough and word of mouth is fine and they don't really need to know how to run a business proper to, to turn a profit.
Um, not to take away from anybody who's done that, obviously, because like gravity forums and Sandhills development are obviously running very good businesses, but it was very much a I can scratch an itch. And start a business. And now the WordPress ecosystem is maturing. Uh, it's, it's a billions and billions of dollar industry, um, WordPress and in particular.
And so you see, um, I think you see hosting companies in particular, trying to not replicate a Squarespace model, but create a similar experience where they have a unified suite of WordPress tools to make it as easy as humanly possible to set up a WordPress site, uh, because you do see the competition, uh, saying like, Hey, why, why do you need to figure out hosting?
Like, why do you need to figure out how to install and configure these things? Right. Um, and, and with liquid web, uh, now with nexus and managed WordPress, uh, you can say, Hey, we have the tools to create a really nice membership site, maybe a donor site. Integrated, you see GoDaddy pro going hard on, uh, e-commerce right.
They acquired, uh, sky verge, uh, and all of their plugins. So they can say, Hey, if you need woo commerce, like, you know, we are where it's at. And then you have WP engine focusing on maybe the more, uh, the more design aspect of it. Right? Cause they, they picked up flywheel, which was a hosting company for designers.
They bought studio press and, uh, uh, saying acquired rich Tabor is, is a weird way to put it, but they Aqua hired right. Rich and all of his tools. So, um, I think you see hosting companies in the WordPress space, niching down and making acquisitions that make sense within their niche.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:20:14] Do you know? That's really curious.
I think, because it would be fascinating. If do we, excuse me, if we could wind the clock forwards a couple of years, if you know something like. Well, liquid web really has pivoted and they've gone off in the kind of more donate website, the sort of non-profit charitable because of the, the acquisition they've just had.
And, and you're right. It didn't really occur to me until just now. I just saw them all trying to, trying to get whatever was working and what was popular and what have you. But yeah, that kind of makes sense. If you're going to do will commerce go here. If you want to be into what was Genesis go here. If you want to do donations staff, then go here.
That's that's really interesting. That is maturing. Wow. Sorry, Ronald. I fear I interrupted you. Uh, I think it was me. I apologize. Sorry. Um,
Topher DeRosia: [00:21:03] when I was at WordCamp London, um, two years ago, uh, I was approached for the first time by a company. Just say to, to let me know, they're looking to acquire interesting things and they weren't looking to buy anything from me.
I don't have anything interesting, but. Uh, to, uh, leverage, you know, people I know in the community to spread the word, not real publicly, but it wasn't a secret to say, uh, Hey, you know, maybe, maybe you should look at this company over here, they're doing something really interesting or, or whatever. And to let people know that that they're looking.
And since then, those two years ago, since then probably three or four different companies have approached me to let me know the same thing. Hey, we're looking to, to buy interesting things to build a portfolio of stuff. Um, and I think, I think Nathan, to your point, um, you, you can only do the same thing for so long before you run out of innovation.
I mean, how much more can you do to make websites faster? Or cheaper or whatever, you know? Um, so places like liquid overthinking, what else, what else can we do? Um, and they, they doubled down on WooCommerce. They're now they're doubling down on membership sites and donation sites. And, um, if they can make themselves much more interesting by offering these tools than just web hosting.
I mean, we saw it when WordPress hosting came out, it used to be, if you got signed up for our web hosts, you got an empty public HTML folder, you know, and then WordPress managed hosting became a thing. And, and that was huge, but now kind of everybody's doing it.
Paul Lacey: [00:22:55] And
Ronald Gijsel: [00:22:56] it makes financially a lot of sense as well because you have a hosting for $3 50, just run them them.
Yeah. But if you add a solution to that, you said the 10 pounds, $10. Uh, but not only then, because if you don't have the particular solution as part of the hosting and you do the do separately, it will cost you probably double that 20 pounds or $20. So now you have a customer that actually will stay with you.
It gets good value. The retention is, uh, rate is much higher, uh, and your cost of acquisition of having that customer originally only for three 50, um, you get a much higher profit out of it. So it makes a lot of sense for hosting companies to, to pursue this, uh, way of acquiring more business and compliment the hosting side of, of what they offer.
My, my only concern is, and this is totally personal and, and open. Um, but I think, I must say what Joseph with liquid web keeping all the businesses totally independent and they still do their own thing at what they're good at, um, is that some, let's say in, in a couple of years, time, it's a bit when they need to, certainly in five years time, you have hosting companies having, uh, you know, managing plugins and different solutions and you get sort of these, these, um, segmented, um, pillars that you go for this.
And once you're there, you can then move to something else. And WordPress obviously is an open source. So you should be able to take whatever you have built on here and move it to somewhere else. So having barriers, whether these are financial or even, even solution-based, it might not be the right thing going forward.
But at the moment, the singles from hosting companies is that everything is open and transparent. So, so far it's looking good, but I can imagine that could be an issue in the future if, uh, If we go down this way, where everybody is acquiring a certain set monopoly, uh, and then you better not land on that station or you're, you're, you're done with them.
Joe Casabona: [00:25:03] You know, what I think is interesting and it, it, it's, it's probably different from, you know, Tilford and I here in the U S uh, and Nathan Paul and Ronald are all in the UK, Ronald here in the UK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and, uh, I, I think this, and then, uh, you know, the, the WP drama that happened about six weeks ago, um, with Wix brought up a couple of interesting things around the GPL, right?
Cause the GPL here in the United States has never been litigated. So we don't really know how strong that is. I think if we see a, this is, I'm like a legal nerd, I'm not a lawyer obviously, but that wasn't illegal podcast. Um, and I think that if something like that happens, at least here in the U S I will be extremely interested to see how the GPL is litigated moving forward.
Right. We saw the Google Oracle Supreme court decision a couple of weeks ago, or maybe a month ago now. And I'm just, I'm kind of just blue sky in here. That would be, I think it would, would be bad in general for the industry, for hosting companies to kind of monopolize the data and make it less portable.
And that's really not what WordPress is about, but I would be interested to see who, if anyone would challenge the GPL or try to enforce the GPL via the courts, which is how laws are made. Yeah. How laws are made and broken.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:26:27] Yeah. I don't think anybody has at all anywhere. And, uh, it's sort of almost praying that nobody does because then it never needs to be actually tested to see how watertight I think it's fascinating.
Wasn't it? Didn't I themes. Yeah. You were mentioning earlier that items have been bought as well by liquid web that they autonomously then bought. Was it cadence Paul? Yeah. Recently.
Paul Lacey: [00:26:49] Yeah. So sometimes teams buys the company and then sometimes so
Nathan Wrigley: [00:26:54] there's so all the time they can even go out and acquire other, I mean, that, that is autonomy.
Isn't it? That's pretty incredible. Yeah. That's nice, Joe, forgive me. I forgot to put your little, um, website up. So there it is. How I built.it forward slash give WP is the podcast.
Topher DeRosia: [00:27:14] I have a quick question about that domain.
Joe Casabona: [00:27:15] Yeah. How hard is it to buy an Italian domain? Let me tell you, I'd love to tell you that it's it's.
I got my Italian citizenship because I qualify for that because my grandfather came over. Uh, but, uh, it's, it's it wasn't bad. I know, I know. I want to, it's something I aspire to do, but, uh, he passed about 10 years ago. And so it's harder now because it needs to like prove a lot more things. Um, the shorter, the short and actual answer is go.
Daddy has like a domain broker service. So you pay the whatever, 12 or 15 bucks for the domain, plus an extra 20 for them to register it under their subsidiary. So the domain costs me 40 bucks a year, but totally worth it because I love it. Um, and yeah, and they made it super easy. It like, my OCD is a little like, uh, all my domains are over here except for this one, but yeah, I'll I'll survive.
Yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:28:12] You just said, you just said, love it. Can you imagine who's got that domain? Love it. Oh man. Oh
Joe Casabona: [00:28:20] yeah. I'm not going to blindly
Topher DeRosia: [00:28:23] pull up in my browser.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:28:25] Oh yes. Good point. Not going to do it. Um, we should also. Paul, if it's all right, I'm just going to put that one up as well. Just to say that, um, there is, uh, there's a, uh, a version of this story from give WP and probably just pop it on the screen.
Uh, there we go. There it is.
Paul Lacey: [00:28:41] You can find that one, um, all these, like, uh, sometimes you get films, computer games or books that are kind of like alternative reality. Like what if the, you know, these people won the war? What if this, well, what if, what if, uh, automatic got acquired by a gigantic hosting company?
Is that possible? Can automatic get acquired? And, and what would that mean to the WordPress projects?
Joe Casabona: [00:29:04] My money's on Google acquiring automatic. I'm like, I've been saying that I don't think it would be a hosting company. No. I mean, they basically are a hosting company, right?
Paul Lacey: [00:29:14] Yeah. Yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:29:16] Oh, you've actually made me nervous.
Paul Lacey: [00:29:18] I don't want to think of, I don't want to put any ideas in any very rich people's heads, but, um, but you know, it could happen, couldn't it? I think, um, I think, I don't know if there's in, you know, the, sort of the managerial structure of wordpress.org, the open source project, if there's a clause about what happens if automatic were to get acquired, does, does it get released or would it trigger?
Would it finally trigger the big fork? I dunno, but we'll see, you know, in a couple of years time, if all these acquisitions happen, maybe that maybe that could happen. I don't
Joe Casabona: [00:29:55] know. The structure illegally is interesting. Right. Cause there's automatic, which is a privately held company of which Matt Mullenweg is the CEO, I think.
Right. You're right. Yeah. Um, and then, uh, and then there's the WordPress foundation, which is. Technically the nonprofit, that's also the copyright holder of WordPress. Is that correct? I think that's right. I believe that's true. Yeah. Um, but so if automatic were acquired, I know like autumn, all of Automatic's assets, including like jet pack or whatever would get acquired.
Um, but yeah, it would be really interesting to see, because I mean, let's be honest, automatic powers, a lot of the open source contributions here. Um, I would have a hard time. I have a, I joke that Google would do it. Um, but I have a hard time seeing Matt wanting to seed, uh, that amount of, uh, control, which yeah.
To, for his company. Right. And I, I, that's not like a knock on him. That's somebody wants to buy a Facebook app. I wrote like 15 years ago and I couldn't do it cause I'm like, what if they change it? But it was like a quotes app is so dumb. Um, so, uh, you know, so I I'd have a hard time seeing Matt wanting to do that, but.
Um, I think automatic would go public sooner than they can get acquired. Yeah, I think so. And then get acquired
Nathan Wrigley: [00:31:17] Paul you've you've terrified me. I don't know.
Paul Lacey: [00:31:19] Yeah. Well, the thing is Mo is a mere mortal like us, so, you know, something could happen to Matt and then, you know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say that it's going to happen.
We don't want that to happen, but, um, dictator thing.
Joe Casabona: [00:31:31] Yeah, yeah,
Paul Lacey: [00:31:32] yeah. You know, so what happens then? I don't know, but it's just, we've all this acquisition is kind of platform building. We get to, we don't want to get to a point where we kind of have to make choices about hosting companies based on the solution that we want, because there's lock-in.
And I know that that's what the, that is one of the things that, um, that I know Matt Mullenweg is at least he say's he's, uh, doing, which is to try and maintain the, always being an open source alternative. It doesn't matter what hosting company, what platform, what country, wherever you are, that there is always, as long as you can get yourself a service set up somehow.
You can publish information, whether you're in a kind of democracy or the opposite of a democracy sort of thing. Um, but, uh, just a quick one, because we won't cover this one fully. There is, there is a really interesting, um, interview that I think came out last week on WP cafe, which is a UK. Um, it's a podcast with a YouTube channel as well.
And so if you, um, search for dopey cafe, Matt Mullenweg or something on YouTube, you'll find, uh, that particular interview. And it's not just Mike Malone work. It's also just so for Hayden, John posi in one interview entitled the future of WordPress, and it's a really good interview and, um, definitely worth going to check that one out.
Or just
Nathan Wrigley: [00:32:53] handy to remember URL, easy
Paul Lacey: [00:32:56] screen. I said case
Ronald Gijsel: [00:32:59] no a
Nathan Wrigley: [00:33:00] notepad.
Paul Lacey: [00:33:04] Um, but yeah, it's still on, um, Ronald, just before we move to the next one. Um, well, do you, uh, you, uh, um, work for youth themes and if there's like a marketplace, it's not really marketplace, but it's, it's got tons of WooCommerce plugins. So it is like a solution, you know, you can buy the membership from yes.
And if you do you get all the plugins for what? 30 sites,
Ronald Gijsel: [00:33:31] individual plugins, and each have their own value and solution and feature, but yeah, no, it's, it's it's uh, yeah, I think we're, we're on the hit list of a few, but
Paul Lacey: [00:33:41] I can imagine you had to ask, I know you can't say obviously. Anything, but I just wondered is yes. Already partnered officially with any of the hosting companies just completely.
Yeah.
Ronald Gijsel: [00:33:53] Yeah. Um, it w it would be interesting because I think the solutions we have could really boost anybody's e-commerce offering with creating all sorts of different types of solutions. So it would be a, you know, a great sort of, you know, in an ideal world, um, have it all looking because the way we've, we've coded the data, we've done it on the, on the single framework, it would be, uh, a one-stop shop to pretty much achieve 70, 80, 90% of the e-commerce shops and not trying to advertise there at all.
Um, but I think the strengths are that. Is starting for, for the company is, is to remain independent because there are lots of advantages of, of, but it is becoming more and more difficult. I think in, in the WordPress space, I think Joe mentioned earlier about, um, you know, how, how it's evolving and it's becoming, uh, billions and billions of whatever dollar pound industry.
And if everybody it's, it's growing. And I think also what you said about automatic, I think WooCommerce is probably one of the most valuable assets to do automatic. So what could happen with, with WooCommerce on its own, um, by the being acquired? How about big commerce? Maybe they've got a lot of money to, uh, you take it over the hand.
Um, but yeah, for sure. It's, it's a big, uh, what for them tofu is that? No. Okay. Sorry. Huh? I thought it
Paul Lacey: [00:35:27] was in the intro. So it must be out date. Well, oops. Oh,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:35:34] that's on 164 of the,
Paul Lacey: [00:35:41] I never alternative reality. Uh, you know, singers to me always feels like the biggest competitor to the automatic suite of what we're commerce plugins, and anyone who follows the kind of insider news. How about this one element or acquires? Yes. And then faux WordPress. Oh, that would be harsh. Wouldn't it?
Can you imagine that? Oh, you could have
Nathan Wrigley: [00:36:04] a really good, you could have a really good episode where we just decide who should buy you
Paul Lacey: [00:36:12] power structure.
Topher DeRosia: [00:36:13] Yeah.
Ronald Gijsel: [00:36:14] Yeah. It would be like frisk. You're treading on some various sensitive ground on a couple of things you've said in the last 15 minutes. So we might want to move on. Well, very
Paul Lacey: [00:36:24] quickly you got no skin in the game. That's the good thing about this. I can say what I want and just, uh, just, just throw it out there.
Just throw it out there. I'm not seeing
Ronald Gijsel: [00:36:33] any comments coming in. So
Nathan Wrigley: [00:36:37] Jackson talking about everybody's hair
Paul Lacey: [00:36:39] and I, my favorite comment today is this one from. Sifan boy. Oh, eight three. Want to become famous by followers and viewers on, well, thank you for that.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:36:48] No, this is too much. If you put anything out on Twitch, you are more or less guaranteed to get the most instantaneous.
There must be a bond which just recognizes that something's gone live and just posts that, that garbage. But there we go. Sorry. That's my rant about Robert
Paul Lacey: [00:37:04] Jacobi. I think we should because we're still in acquisitions in a way. And I think what we've, first of all seen is like acquisitions of companies and products.
But it's not just that. And tofa knows this because you know, you've, you know, acquired a podcast for instance, the, um, the hallway chats podcast. And I know that's not like, uh, the same kind of commercial deal sort of thing that's going on here is that's for a completely different reason, but. We spread now from products being acquired to people being acquired, uh, because you know, these big companies, they don't just need products.
They need people. And that's why, you know, they're buying companies like given, they're buying all that marketing power of givers at the same time as the product itself. And so, first of all, we just want to congratulate Robert Jacobi, who is joined cloud wise as the director of WordPress. And that's the next item that we're going to talk about.
So Robert's been on this show before and you know, anyone who is in the WordPress space and, you know, actively taking notice of who's saying things and who's, who's a voice in, in WordPress would probably know either know directly Robert or know of him. So this is pretty exciting news. And I'm going to Chuck this one over to Ronald because.
You actually in the same way Joe broke the news about give Ronald G you had the honor of, um, being the first to break the news about, uh, only to you,
Ronald Gijsel: [00:38:25] not, not to a wide audience, but it's quite limited, but yeah, I know it did tell me that they also, before this was announced, uh, which was quite flustered about, um, but yeah, he's also the co panelists on the WooCommerce round table, uh, session with, uh, of WP.
But, uh, Robert is, uh, he he's, he's, he's really interesting cause he knows a lot. He's got so much experience and you often joins quietly, but when he speaks, there's a, you can sense. There's a wealth of knowledge, um, that sits within and. You know, the few times I've spoken as part of a meetup or sort of privately, you know, sometimes you get these little hints and these he's got pockets of knowledge about pretty much everything.
That's sort of relevant for a company like cloud way. So I think they going to gain so much from his, uh, experience and knowledge, and I'm really excited to see what comes out of that.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:39:26] Um, president of Joomla wasn't he, he was, I don't, I don't quite know what that role involves, but, um, yeah, that's, uh, I guess that's the equivalent of Matt over on the Joomla side, but, um, but he he's, I don't know.
Yeah.
Topher DeRosia: [00:39:43] One of the things I have, uh, valued about Robert over the years is that he has been deeply a part of two major worldwide CMS communities. You know, he's been a part of the Joomla community. He knows those people and they have their camps like ours and he knows what those are like. And he knows what it's like to lead a major project, and now he's in this community.
And, and so he has, he has that viewpoint of the, both of them. Um, and that's, that's really interesting. Not too many people have that.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:40:17] Could I just ask, did cloud ways, I mean, I'm sure we've all heard of cloud wise. Um, did cloud ways have this role before, or has it been uniquely created so that he can fill it?
Joe Casabona: [00:40:28] Uh, that's been uniquely created, uh, for Robert. Yeah. So I, um, after I, after the, um, well, Robert reached out to me last week and I, I interviewed him for an upcoming episode of my WP review podcast on Thursday. So I, I got a little bit of the skinny there, but yeah, they, so they have similar roles in other areas that they are in, uh, of which they're involved and I'm totally blanking on, I think PHP Laravel is one.
And then, uh, another thing it's Drupal. But there's another kind of, um, another community advocate, uh, Magento. That is exactly right. Yes. Um, but director of WordPress, uh, is Robert is the first one. They created this role for him. Uh, and then they, so they are, they're reordering a little bit. And I suspect they'll also have a director of Magento and a director of, um, early, just mentioned it in the chat too.
So multiple confirmations here. Um, uh, so I suspect that'll create directors for those roles as well.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:41:35] I'm trying to find the bit in the text where it explains, because I did read it somewhere. You know, it was like three or four lines saying what the job involved, but the bit which stuck with me was the sort of outreach to.
Sort of found community events and not found, but you know, bolster community events and reach out to people in the, in the WordPress space. And so that's fascinating. I'm just so pleased. And I've just got to put him back on the screen because you know, What a mustache it's so sublimely cool. I love it.
Ronald Gijsel: [00:42:15] But this is a plug for him as well, because the, uh, the robot Jacobi does copy. It's often, you know, quick on, on breaking news and insights and extra explanations also around acquisitions. And, um, he sends out daily emails, which is so easy to, to read, but it gives you good insight on sort of top level what's happening in and around industry.
So
Paul Lacey: [00:42:39] yeah, he really knows what's going on. I mean, not just in WordPress, like, like you said, like the surrounding things, the PHP world and that kind of thing. And so cloud ways have really got themselves a. A very knowledgeable person in, in Robert, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what it's doing.
But, um, it makes me wonder now I wonder if, um, cloud wise now with, with him there we'll have some, we'll be, I don't know. I don't know if this is a thing that they'd be interested in. Like I wonder if cloud wise we'll start buying up WordPress products in the same way. Some of the other host sites, because cloud raises a different concept of, of hosting solution than say liquid web or dopey engine, or they're all kind of got their unique angle on how they all work.
But I think in one of the posts, cloud waste said something like at least 75% of their customers are WordPress users and are coming from that angle. So I guess they figured that out. And in terms of, you know, if, if these companies are growing and th and then you look at who the voices are in WordPress or the products, there's only so many, um, the there's, the community is only so, so large.
So at some point. Everything might be acquired, actually. And then it makes me wonder, um, you've got, uh, companies now acquiring teams, um, for the team. Not necessarily, they're not, they might not even want the product. Sometimes they just want the team. Um, and then, you know, I know Robert hasn't been acquired as such, but to me it feels like a, a merge of Robert and cloud ways versus like him just getting a job and applying and figuring out how much he gets paid and all that sort of stuff.
So I wonder how far it goes, because Joe, you mentioned on your podcast about give the liquid web and restrict content pro our sponsors of your podcast. I don't know which podcast you were talking about, but, um, you mentioned that they were, and you, you wonder how long it is until, and I'm hopeful for this.
Uh, the, some of these brands realize that. There's there's products and there's people, and there's also voices and narratives that they want to control. So, you know, how long is it til podcasts start getting bought out? How much do you think Nathan? How much?
Nathan Wrigley: [00:44:54] I would say 80 or 90 Pence. I'd sell four and I have
Paul Lacey: [00:44:57] some of that money.
Yeah, for putting the idea in
Nathan Wrigley: [00:45:01] 70, 70 is fine. 60. Okay. Yeah, no, it's interesting because I've just gone and read through Roberts. Um, it's not a job description. It's just the first paragraph of text and it says Robert will be leading. I quote, Robert will be leading the WordPress and business unit with their strategic partnerships, building community engagement and helping establish new channels of outreach and building brand equity.
So that it really feels like that is in his wheelhouse to reach out to people doing podcasts and, um, you know, blogs and whatever. It might be YouTube channels or something like that. Um, so that's amazing. And cloud ways, they've been a really big name in the WordPress space for a long time. You kind of feel, this is such a clever hire for them as well.
Cause they get double duty from him. They get, they get total mainline into the WordPress community, but they also get a really nice backdoor into the Joomla community. If there's any, if there's any of that stuff going on, presumably he knows all the people, but yeah. Watch out, watch out. I suspect. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm
Ronald Gijsel: [00:46:05] surprised she didn't get acquired by kin standard case Nathan, because that was a period where you had a bit of a love affair.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:46:13] They were so good. Sorry. No, no, no, not at all these things. Just go in cycles don't they, you know, they sponsor you for a while and then something else happens. But yeah, let's um, let's, I'll just hang up the call now and all of us simultaneously go on the phone. Yeah. Robert Jacobi. And
Paul Lacey: [00:46:30] you can buy us. You can buy us.
Ronald Gijsel: [00:46:32] It's just me. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: [00:46:35] It's interesting. Cause he, he did mention that specifically. I did a little bit of work with cloud ways. They wanted some videos and, and um, they, they sponsored my podcast for a time, I think a couple of years ago. But, um, I think that that Robert's job is a lot more dedicated to that, which is good.
I mentioned in our interview that, um, they're, they're kind of the face of their WordPress team is a little bit disjointed. I talked to multiple people and I was never sure who like the, the, the owner was right. Um, uh, like the owner of my project, I mean, uh, or the project that we were doing together. So I think it'll be really good in that aspect.
And, uh, Ron, to your point about podcasts getting acquired. Um, you know, I mean, we're seeing like Spotify do that. Obviously we're seeing like Amazon do that at Casos, uh, just made an acquisition of three clips. Um, and so I, you know, it's, it's really, it's really interesting. I think, I think that the podcast industry is still very, um, it's still in its infancy, really.
I think it's, um, Spotify is trying to accelerate that and obviously everybody else is jumping on the bandwagon. I don't think that podcasting was an Amazon's wheelhouse four years ago, um, or on their radar four years ago. And, and apple is obviously has obviously decided to rededicate efforts to it. Um, and so it'll be, it'll be interesting.
I think that probably in a couple of years, we'll see more of a trickle down effect. I think companies will probably try to do their own first, uh, full disclosure. I have a cup, I have a. I have a client in the podcast space or in the WordPress space who I produce their podcast for. Um, but I think they'll try to do it.
And then they'll realize maybe that an acquisition of a longstanding podcast in this space might, might better suit them because of the. Relationship or the personal connection that the host has with their audience. Hello,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:48:38] Robert. Robert, yeah. I'll talk to you,
Paul Lacey: [00:48:43] Joe. You need to get your account sorted.
Joe Casabona: [00:48:49] actually texting my accountant right now. Like, can you fix my books?
Paul Lacey: [00:48:54] Stuff's happening? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. That's I think the, I think, um, I have seen some of those, some of the WordPress brands and hosting brands try to do their own channel. I think GoDaddy has a, has, has done it on and off go daddy as sometimes had like an active YouTube channel for a while, then kind of stopped doing it for a while and everything.
And I think it is difficult because they, you know, they do bring in, um, really good presenters, but they're, they're sort of like professionals who are new. I'm not saying that that's not a good thing. It's just, it doesn't seem to stick to the audience and the audience that I know that these companies want to speak to.
Is the audience of people who are the voices who are then creating the, the, you know, the, kind of the, the messages that the wider community, who's not really as reachable, uh, listens to and stuff. So, yeah, that's, that'd be interesting to see. Tofa
Nathan Wrigley: [00:49:46] can I just ask you according to the rundown, you're the only one on here who doesn't have a half a podcast that you're involved with that you do.
So check it out all five of us. So I'm sort of generic, WordPress. Paul is, you know, we're doing this together. You're will commerce. What's your, oh, Joe, your podcast about podcasts, right? Is that the
Paul Lacey: [00:50:13] gray matter?
Joe Casabona: [00:50:14] Yeah, I have, I mean, I have like too many now, but my, how I built it is, uh, basically, uh, actionable tech tips for small business owners, kind of broadening the WordPress umbrella.
I have WP review, which is specifically WordPress news and, uh, I might be launching another one.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:50:33] That's also in episode 164 and Topo. What is yours related to what forgive me. I don't know.
Topher DeRosia: [00:50:40] Uh, here, our press recently took over hallway chats.
Paul Lacey: [00:50:44] I did. I think we should say the word acquired. I mean, it seems to be the, um, the theme of the theme of the show today.
Yeah. I've struggled
Topher DeRosia: [00:50:52] with that because acquired always seems, it sounds to me like, like we bought it or we took it over or something like that. And it was really
Joe Casabona: [00:51:00] a handoff
Paul Lacey: [00:51:02] it's like you adopted it. It's almost like you adopted the show and it seemed a community when you buy a puppy or something and you realize this happened to me and you realize, you know, this there's a home over there where this puppy would be.
Better suited and yeah, we've realized we've over, you know, we need to do some other things in our household. And, and that's the impression I got when, when, um, UNK took over coy hallway chats. And, um, we,
Topher DeRosia: [00:51:29] uh, we'd been thinking about having a podcast for hero press for a while. And I just happened to mention that to Liam.
Yep. And they had just happened to be thinking about ending hallway chats altogether. And he said, Hey,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:51:44] we should talk. Nice, nice bit of synchronicity. Yeah. Yeah. I would expect Joe, you probably pontificate on this more than any of the rest of us, but do you feel like the so inline with Robert Jacobi and obviously that the outreach program that he's going to have to embark upon building, do you feel that.
The podcasts and these WordPress sponsors, are they a good fit? Do you see there's like a strong future for specifically WordPress podcasts and things like that, and, you know, selling this as an ongoing thing to clients, whatever industry they're in.
Joe Casabona: [00:52:19] Yeah, I really do. I mean so much that I've kind of bet my business on it.
Right. Cause I, you know, I've been making WordPress websites for a long time and I recently decided to pivot into helping people launch their own podcasts and launching my own. And um, I think the important thing, so first of all, WordPress, more than more than any other thing I I'm really involved in, I think, uh, is very, very community focused.
Right. Um, I feel like you have an instant bond with, with people in the WordPress space and, and, uh, we do a lot more things out in the open than a lot of people, you know, I always say like, You, you see competitors like exchanging notes in the WordPress space and you don't like, you don't see like apple and Microsoft exchanging notes.
Um, and so I think that's, I think that's a, a tent pole of podcasting too, right? Is that podcasting is I say intimate meaning, right. Um, intimate is really not the right word, but it's, it's very personal. You're inviting the host in the ear headphones and you're listening to them and you feel like, you know, the podcast host, especially.
So, you know, I talk about my personal life on my podcast a lot. Um, and so you have this strong bond, like the listeners and the host and for anybody who's trying to build community, uh, and for anybody who's trying to form that strong bond, a personal recommendation from a podcast host can go a long way.
Um, I mean, I've had sponsors on my podcast for years continually renewing because they see that they see that return on their investment. And so moving forward, I think, yeah, especially if you are trying to, if you're a product trying to build the community or, or reach a new audience or form a stronger bond with that new audience, um, supporting podcasts or starting your own podcast is going to be an extremely good avenue, especially as, um, listeners tick up.
Right? The latest Edison research shows that more than 50% of American adults listen to at least one podcast a week.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:54:29] Uh, it's almost like intravenous community, isn't it? You get right to the heart of it straight away. So, um, yeah, like I say, we'll all be phoning Robert Jacobi. Um, should we show you push it
Paul Lacey: [00:54:44] on pole?
Yeah. Nathan. So I got on my list too. To ask you actually about the page builder summit. Uh, oh, you ran last week and first of all, how did it go? I know, I know it went really well for starters, but you know, for you and how did you perceive it when, because you've done it before. And also what I'm also interested in as well is that, you know, you obviously probably watched all of the presentations and you edited them and everything and, and you, listen, you engaged with the audience in the Facebook group.
Sorry, sorry.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:55:17] Breaking news, breaking news.
For those of you that are listening, Robert Jacobi just dropped in and said, why's his phone ringing off? Oh, that's priceless. It's
Paul Lacey: [00:55:32] everywhere. Thanks. Thanks. It is a bit of a race
Ronald Gijsel: [00:55:36] who is going to get in first and last. We all already have signed up.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:55:44] Sorry,
Paul Lacey: [00:55:45] carry on. I have a poker. I just wondered, um, What you felt the, uh, the feeling in the community was about page builders and how things have changed. Maybe from the last time you did the summit as well. Like what what's the product people are talking about is the block editor going to destroy page builders?
Do we need to get scared about that yet? Or what's going on
Nathan Wrigley: [00:56:06] easy one for me to answer, because the shift towards Guttenberg is palpable, but also I use the phrase a couple of times because we had a social and we were talking about this and I use the phrase, um, a rising tide carries all boats, and I feel that, that there is just.
So much space in WordPress for alternatives to Guttenberg and it kind of feels to me like a lot of people are really, really curious about it. It feels virtually, nobody is building their business on Guttenberg yet, but they're all curious and they're all trying out different solutions and it feels like we might have reached an inflection point where some people are, because there were a few presentations in there.
Um, you'll probably know the ones. I mean, Paul, where people were fleshing out fully beautiful websites, just out of blocks. Yeah. And, and that's only been recently possible, but it also, there was, there was zero talk about while I'm just, I'm going to leave elemental now and I'm going to leave beaver builder.
In fact, quite the opposite. It feels that those, those communities are getting stronger and stronger by the week. And as we tick through 40 45, Maybe even getting up to 50 in the next couple of years percent imagine much of what each percentage point adds to the number of people using these tools. I mean, it must be a jaw droppingly larger amount.
So my feeling is that that whole industry is safe and even new players like bricks, which has sort of come along, seem to be forging a community and being profitable, doing it. So I don't have any, I don't have any fear. Um, for the people
Paul Lacey: [00:57:44] there's always going to be new products, new page builders that come out and some of them will have a good business plan and some of them won't and you know, the ones that have got a good business plan, uh, knew the environment they were getting to and we're able to make steady growth and, you know, think about the future will probably be absolutely fine.
It's like you said, every time I hear the percentage about WordPress, it's always gone up 1%, which must mean. Billions of websites probably. Do we know how many
Ronald Gijsel: [00:58:14] WordPress sites did I read some at 7 million that 40?
Nathan Wrigley: [00:58:19] Yeah. Uh, I'm going to guess it's double that. I'm good because well, elemental made the claim that they had four and a half percent of the internet, you know, this, this magic number, where does that?
What is the internet? But whatever it may be, they, they claim to have four and a half percent of that. And they claimed that that was 7 million. So just let's call it 5%. Let's go for 140 million. Um, but that's the thing they've
Paul Lacey: [00:58:44] got their maths wrong now on that, I think we need to change
Ronald Gijsel: [00:58:49] life. Um, maybe,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:58:50] maybe, I don't know.
Ronald Gijsel: [00:58:53] It's still
Paul Lacey: [00:58:55] yeah. A lot. Yeah. A lot.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:58:58] Yeah. Anyway, so there we go. We won't, we won't dwell on that, but if you did want to check it out, uh, the still you can't really watch the talks anymore, but, um, there is the power pack thing available. So by the power pack,
Paul Lacey: [00:59:09] yeah. You can buy it to Wednesday. So post builder, summit.com and, uh, going, how much is the power pack now?
Nathan Wrigley: [00:59:18] Um, $7 billion.
Paul Lacey: [00:59:22] Hmm. I don't mean Robert Jacobi to buy how much ,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:59:28] I think it's one, four, seven
Paul Lacey: [00:59:29] one four seven. So that's a really good price because you've had some amazing, well,
Nathan Wrigley: [00:59:33] actually we're selling a special bonus edition where we've removed your talk and we're selling it for 200. Yeah.
Sorry. I'm so sorry. That was
Paul Lacey: [00:59:45] really, that was really, I realized last week when you weren't here. When, when Bernard was insubordinate, I turned him off for a moment. Okay. I'll just be actually, I'm logged in as you, I can do that.
Nathan Wrigley: [00:59:59] Uh, you know, I'm joking. Um, should we move on to something much more in your wheelhouse?
Paul Lacey: [01:00:04] Yeah. So, um, I'm
Topher DeRosia: [01:00:06] sorry. I wanted to throw something in there about, um, about, uh, page builders and stuff like that. Please do the full site. Editing has been a big thing recently. And, uh, just this week, one of the, one of the problems I've had with Gutenberg is that you can make wonderful, beautiful pages, but there isn't really a mechanism for managing archive pages.
And personally, I do a lot of data engineering and WordPress, and so I do a lot of custom post types. And of course they all need archive pages and they all need singles and Utan Berg just isn't there for that. Um, so I'm kind of excited about full site editing. And this week, uh, Carolyn and mark released one, it was published on wordpress.org.
And Anna secretary said, she's going to, uh, submit one to.org this week. Uh, so I think we're starting to see more of that. And I think once Gutenberg can actually do a whole site, not just pages, uh, it's gonna, it's gonna. Get a lot bigger, a lot more powerful.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:01:14] Yeah. You've got to feel that a lot of these developers probably could have implemented their own solution.
And we may talk about that in just a minute, but they've kind of holding off. I was talking to the guys from stackable earlier this week and they were saying they could have implemented their own full site editing solution, but better just to wait and adopt what everybody else is doing. And we're not w I, I feel, I feel by the end of this year, we'll have something fully fleshed out and usable.
Um, but for me, one of the curious things out of that summit wasn't blocks to build the, the normal stuff that we're used to. It was just this curious new wave of blocks, doing things, which I didn't see, like, uh, I don't know if any of you have heard of Leslie Sims newsletter glue plugin, where it's a newsletter.
It allows you to create a newsletter. Just like you would in a SAS platform like MailChimp or something, but it's a blog post and then it pushes it upon publication out to your, um, mail center of choice. Again, it could be MailChimp or something else, but just such a curious and brilliant example of how a block, the content isn't a blog post.
It could literally be anything. And I was playing with it over the, over the weekend and having great fun. It's absolutely brilliant. I don't know if you've seen that one. Joel, I think you were nodding just then, but it's a
Joe Casabona: [01:02:28] yeah. Can I just, uh, shamelessly plug that she's going to be on my live stream on a Wednesday, a Wednesday 9:00 AM Eastern.
Um, and she will be adding newsletter glue to casabona.org. Um, so you can, you can, uh, visit casabona.live, um, and get a reminder for the live stream. I'm actually setting up the page. Uh, it's rude to do it on live stream, but by the end of the stream, um, like the reminder will be there, but Catherine wanted out live Wednesday.
At 9:00 AM. Leslie will be joining me and walking us through.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:03:01] It's so good. And, um, but that's just like, I feel the tip of the iceberg, you know, unplug it, sorry. I blocked to do that thing. Who knows what these ingenious people are going to come up with. So, sorry, Paul, that was me harking back to that point about what the, what the, what came up in the summit.
That was one of the things, just, just how curious and different the blocks are going to be in the fact that the block editor isn't constrained to posts or pages. So, um, yeah. Interesting future.
Paul Lacey: [01:03:27] Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I think Matt Madeira shoes is a newsletter glitter as well, and know he does for the WP minute.
I don't know if he's using it yet for his, um, main podcast, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think with Adobe Minot has a partner email newsletter that goes out with it. So I think that's probably why he's partnered with that. Um, but yeah, it seems that that that product is going really going really, really well.
So, and what it is is like a newsletter plugin within WordPress, but it's very, very simple. And I think it uses the Gutenberg, the block editor to design your newsletters, which is really cool because you can imagine in the future. You know, people who are making their websites are familiar with the block editor and not having to go over to another third party, um, email system, MailChimp MailerLite whatever, and use a different interface.
They can duplicate some of their content, pull it straight into a newsletter. So yeah, very powerful.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:04:23] No, you need to have two, uh, two CMS running with, with your data. And if you want to integrate with coupons or other deals that are sort of part of your plugin. So, you know, I can already see that looping back and forth, uh, with other solutions that sort of build on top of that.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:04:40] It's nice to finding your data. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Um, also nice just to have that. Newsletter on your territory, you know, you, yes. You, you, you get the SEO juice from all of that, and it's absolutely wonderful. Just, um, Joe, would you drop the URL for your thing into the private chat and I'll pop it on the screen if anybody wants to do that, but sorry, carry on with what you're going to save.
Oh, right. Oh
Joe Casabona: [01:05:02] yeah. I was just going to say that and it does integrate right. With a bunch of different, like, so if you have MailChimp, for example, you build your newsletter. Right. And I'm, I'm excited. She says, she told me that she's working on convert kit integration and I send out a member's newsletter monthly.
And now like you, like Ron said, I keep calling you, Ron. I prefer Ron or Ronald. That's absolutely fine. Okay, cool. Um, uh, you know, you can integrate kind of this members only stuff, and then it will be part of my members archive right now. Um, I have my VA like copy those newsletters and paste them into the members area.
Um, and I'm just excited to, to kind of cut down on. One smaller step. And like the convert kit editor is like, okay, but it's not as good as the block editor. So I'm just
Nathan Wrigley: [01:05:52] looking at the, I'm just looking at the backend. Um, you can connect it to, oh yeah, yeah. Uh, how do I do that? Oh, I can't remember, but I know you're right.
MailChimp was there, there was all the usual suspects and quite, not a usual suspect. This self hosted thing called Cindy as well, which is a quite a nice, um, PHP script that you can buy for literally 40 bucks or something, which will handle this. Uh, it doesn't do all the whizzbang stuff that active campaign does, but it's quite cool.
So yeah. Go check out. casabona.live. What day did you say,
Joe Casabona: [01:06:26] uh, this Wednesday? Let's let the 19th at 9:00 AM Eastern.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:06:30] Nice. What a good bit of coincidence. That was lovely.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:06:36] Thanks. .
Paul Lacey: [01:06:38] Yeah, automatic buying a newsletter glue and making it, carrying it on as an open-source project and putting it into wordpress.com or Jetpack or something like that.
I could see that happening, but yeah. Yeah. It's always speculation, but it's funny. Tofa um, you were just talking before, before we, uh, move to the next, um, segment about, uh, that the block editor isn't doing the single post templates for you. It's not doing the archive posts and the, and the full site editing project is obviously aiming to give us that.
For any compatible themes. So there could be a hundred thousand themes that we can do that with in the near future. And that it seems to be coming on quite nicely, even though the, you know, the block editor itself, I have my problems with, I can see that there they're getting there. And if you listen to some of the people, you know, whether it's just EFA or, um, and McAfee talking about the project that they're doing, you get to understand that they are moving forward and they are listening all the time.
But our next item is actually. Um, showing how full site editing is possible. Albeit if you're using January, press regenerate, press premiums. So you can't use this tool on a different theme, but if you happen to be a generate press premium, um, customer, and I'm a massive fan of generate press, I've been using this product for number of years.
Well, they've just released version 2.0 of generate press premium. Direct press premium is like the plugin that goes with a theme. So the theme is free and then the generic cost premium is the plugin that you pay a small amount of money for. And you get, uh, lots of add-on functionality. And I know they've been working on this, this version for probably over a year and essentially what they've done.
If you scroll down to the next dark zone, um, we'll that, uh, it's got onto the next dock dock area. It says here, they've just, we've 2.0. They've introducing the first ever block-based theme builder. Now it depends how you define if it is the first ever or not, but it kind of is even, even something like toolset, isn't giving you the whole package, but what you can do with generate press premium now is you can design your archive for use in.
In the block editor assign it to different post types, different taxonomies. You can create all the different oh yeah. Is that, is that the YouTube video there? Yeah. Yeah.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:09:06] Fantastic. Real excited about this. Cause you shared this with me earlier, Paul and I got so excited. I shared it with my wife, which is the first time I shared a YouTube video.
That's related to that. You need to look into this and finally, Paul, you introduced me to generate press. Um, which
Paul Lacey: [01:09:26] yeah. Yeah. And you're able to, for instance, this design, what the item looks like in the list of archives, you can design, um, all the, the inter um, the small parts. Like what you can see in the video at the moment is the, the meta that appears below the post title.
For instance, um, you can design yours for four pages. You can design your archive pages, your single post pages for any of the different custom post types or taxonomies that you've got. You can already with this build. A full working site. It all works with woo commerce and all that kind of thing. And this is just version 2.0.
So I know that like from here, they will be able to iterate really, really quickly to listen to that community's generate press listens to its community, or it does all of the time and the things that people want to be able to build the sites that they need, those things so long as they go along with the generate press, ethos will get done.
And, um, and so this is, uh, this is a great example of what actually is possible with the block editor. And, but obviously you've got to, you've got to use January, press premium here. So, so when I first saw this, I was like, what, what is, what is, why are they bothering with the full site editing product? It's, it's done, it's done, but actually it's not, this is, this is for generate press.
This is, um, and it'll be interesting to see. I think we're in full site, editing is matured. I think the January press will carry on doing it its own way and that some other themes we'll copy, generate press. And then some of the themes will go down the more, um, vanilla route of using the, the official full site editing facilities.
But you can see the, you can see that the developers who are pushing, pushing ahead now innovating and creating these solutions that people need. Um, so it's going to be an interest in next 12 months. Yeah. Even if it just sort of brings, which
Nathan Wrigley: [01:11:20] is the gap between full site editing in core. Um, but it'll also give P the likes of Ann McCarthy, something to look at and say, exactly, we could, we could do it this way, because this seems to work rather well, I haven't played with it, so I don't know, but they tow for that might be.
Yeah. Yep.
Paul Lacey: [01:11:37] Yeah. The thing to do is to go to the January first.com website, go to the premium section and watch the video because there isn't a ton of information about this out yet, but if you watch the video and you're familiar with the block editor, In two minutes, you'll get how this thing works. And like Ronald said, he was so excited that he told his wife about it.
I should, we should, um, we should kind of frame that in that Ronald's wife does work in WordPress and does work in building websites. So it's, it's not quite as extreme. Right. But, you know, um, so I imagine she was probably pretty pleased about this because it does open lots of opportunities as well. Lots of, yeah.
Yeah. I, I CA
Ronald Gijsel: [01:12:15] I can't tell you what she replied, but not quite as excited
Nathan Wrigley: [01:12:19] as I was, but next time I'm excited about something in WordPress. I'm going to tell your wife as well. Yes. He's going to be delighted. Um, are we onto the last one that gravity forms? If we've got time, we've got enough time. You will.
You're located five minutes
Ronald Gijsel: [01:12:37] in the meantime I've been arranging. My Ellis son is picking up my youngest son. I noticed sitting in the car, so I'm all good.
Paul Lacey: [01:12:44] If you do need to run off, then I'll say, bye. And, uh, and go, um, yeah, the final one we've got today, unless anyone else has got anything to add about the generate press, uh, product at all, or Mary Kay to move on?
Nope. Nope. All right. So this is a post from gravity forms and it's introducing the new 2.5 features on accessibility. So this is interesting. Um, not just if you're into accessibility in that kind of thing, but basically that they've not only released version 2.5, which most people were looking at as a kind of user interface update, but they're quickly rolling out or focusing on important long-term features that people need for their solutions.
So, but, uh, Aside from the accessibility actually tried out the new version for the first time, um, a couple of days ago, because I've looked at what they're doing. And whenever I see the gravity forms 2.5, it looks like they've kind of copied the, uh, block editor so that it fits nicely with the interface that we're all used to doing, which makes sense.
It certainly makes sense that you do that. Now, if you go to the gravity forums website, somewhere on there, there is a button you can click and you can just play river demo of gravity forms 2.5 without having to buy it, you can play with it and see how it feels. And this is just to put it out there that I felt for a long time, that the big problem with the user interface for the block editor in Gutenberg was that it was just too much.
Everything was white. It was just. Everything's white. There was no contrast or anything like that. And I couldn't get my head around it. Now the gravity forms UI looks like the block editor, but it's not, it's different. It behaves beautifully. And it shows so if anyone, you know, if anyone in the core team happens to be watching this at the moment or listening, go check out the demo of the gravity forms.
And I don't know what they've done, but it looks the same, but it feels a million times smoother to use. So, um, but I didn't really take much notice of the accessibility thing. I put it in there mainly because I wanted to raise that point. But if anyone wants to, um, if anyone else has tried the new gravity forms, so was migrated from the old one to the new one, I'd be interested to hear how you've been getting on as well.
But interface are found wonderful. You
Nathan Wrigley: [01:15:11] kind of feel that they were. A little bit behind with all of that. Uh, I feel like that their rivals had, um, had sort of stolen the March on them a little bit. So it's really, really nice just for one's view of the way it looks like nice to see them catching up. I've got
Paul Lacey: [01:15:27] a, yeah, they've done a giant, a giant leap here.
I don't know if it's put them ahead, but it's put them, you know, let's say how cloud ways is kind of different to a lot of the other hosts and its concept. It feels that gravity forms has done something that makes it feel different than the rest of the competition, or it feels like it's built a new foundation for itself to, to move forward now.
So I don't know where that's going. Um, but as a long-term gravity forms user, I'm pleased to see that. I know Ronald you use formidable. Are you still a formidable person? Yeah. Um, just them as well. Yeah. Yeah. So that's all I had to say about that, but the accessibility, the accessibility thing they're talking about there is showing you some of the fine grain control you can have over that.
And it's good because it shows they have a very clear understanding of that.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:16:22] Yeah. We never really did really focus on the main point of the article, which was that they've made a real effort to, they, they make the point in the article that it, in order for it to be accessible, you've still got to do the grunt work.
You have to go and fill out all of the areas where the accessibility form fields are required, but they are there for you to make use of, um, whereas perhaps in other solutions they simply don't exist. And so, yeah, that's a really nice, a nice badge for them to be able to wear great.
Paul Lacey: [01:16:52] Speaking of accessibility, there was an item that we removed actually this week because we weren't sure we had enough time, but I know that there is an open letter by various, um, accessibility, not people who have a lot of knowledge about WordPress and accessibility to, um, I don't know who the letter is to is there's an open letter.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:17:16] I think that's a BS story, right? Yeah.
Paul Lacey: [01:17:18] Yeah. It's kind of linked to it. That is linked to that to kind of say, we need to stop using tools that sit on top of a website that, that try and clean up a mess of something that wasn't accessible and then kind of reverse engineer, some kind of. Pseudo accessibility into a website.
So I think, um, this idea of we've got to get serious about this. Now the accessibility starts at the, at the foundation, same with performance. I did a talk at, um, Nathan's, um, patriotic summit, which obviously you can get a more, more expensive version if you talk to me. But, but my talk was focusing on performance and again, it was like, you need to sort out the things that the foundation and not just throw a caching plugin at it.
Core vitals makes us realize that. And I think, um, accessibility be getting the attention that it deserves more and more now. Some of these companies are kind of doing the right thing and putting that accessibility into the core and not just saying, yeah, if you were an expert, you can do this. They're helping us to be educated about it.
But yeah, this is the article that we previously had removed. I'm about to say, let's not have these overlay products, they call them. So if you do do work for clients and they're like, can we use this product? You've got something to refer to now as to why maybe that isn't such a good idea. Even if the marketing seems to suggest that it is.
Joe Casabona: [01:18:46] I just want to jump in here and say, I, uh, first of all, I feel like your whole agenda is based on content I've created or I'm creating. Um, but my interview with pat Hannon is out this week on, on my podcast. And she talks about this, her and, um, Amber Heinz in the previous episode, talk about these overlay plugins and how they don't solve really.
They don't solve a problem. And, uh, one of them made the point that this kind of makes you a target for, uh, accessibility lawsuits, because they look at people who are just using this plugin and then they know that their site's not accessible. Yeah, crazy. Right. Which is like, it's like, I don't want to say it's like bottom feedery, but, uh, it it's something to look out for.
Right. If, uh, it kind of puts a target on your back. If you're just trying to put a bandaid on what's a, a real, uh, what's a real issue and, and something that needs to. Be continually looked after. Right. You can't just enable JavaScripts to, to fix a problem. Like accessibility.
Paul Lacey: [01:19:53] Yeah. It's almost like it says that you were aware of it.
This was your idea.
Joe Casabona: [01:19:58] Yeah. It's like, it's like those people who put up content on YouTube that is, they don't own the copyright for, and then they say no copyright infringement intended. It's like, you're still doing it. And now you're acknowledging that you you're doing it. Right. People who like Republic music, videos or whatever.
Right. And they're like, no copyright infringement intended. Like you, you are, you are infringing on the copyright. Yeah.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:20:22] We get, um, we get copyright take down notices about once every couple of months for this really just like, yeah. It's just not, there's just no music. It's
Joe Casabona: [01:20:33] all led Zeppelin
Nathan Wrigley: [01:20:34] in the backyard.
Well, that's right. Other after millions, something
earlier,
Ronald Gijsel: [01:20:39] Nathan,
sorry, go on. No, unless it's from Joe Casabona because we recycle all of his content.
Joe Casabona: [01:20:49] my lawyers.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:20:51] It's um, it's just an automated script. And Google immediately say, if, you know, if this feels bogus, just ignore it. Cause we probably will. I can't remember what the exact wording is, but the first time I got one, I was a bit oh yeah.
Trouble. And then realize that really it's just automated. Tube's
Joe Casabona: [01:21:07] infringement algorithm is very clever. I accidentally, so I used music in my live stream when I was on Twitch. And it was like, Twitch had partnered with a company to let you use it in their live streams. And then I moved it over to YouTube, but they don't have the same deal with YouTube.
So YouTube basically said, Hey, you're using. Copyright music. We're not going to take your, uh, video down, but all of the stats and the monetization will be attributed to the copyright holder and like, how did
Nathan Wrigley: [01:21:37] they do it? Wow. I, I, the last time I mentioned AppSumo on this show was probably about two years ago, cause I've really kicked the habit, but I did find a, I don't know if this will interest you, Joe, there's a tool called film stro on AppSumo at the moment.
And it allows you to create, they've got a library of about, let's say about 150, um, copyright free songs, but they've divided each song up into four component parts and it's power, momentum, deaths, and something else. And all you do is you, you download your video into the app and then you just went when you want the pressure to increase, you just slide the power and it's, it's absolutely great.
Um, anyway, there
Joe Casabona: [01:22:22] you go. That's super cool. I'm going to check that out. I found a good playlist from Alberto Gonzalez on, on Twitter. He mentioned it, but it's like a on Spotify, just low-fi stream beats. So I just play that, do that. I got to figure out cause like I have the Roadmaster pro and I turn on mix minus usually.
So that everybody's voice isn't in my recording, but I need to turn off mix minus to get the audio so sinked. Yep. Yeah, that'll be my next, uh, my next project on a future live stream.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:22:56] of you adding this music while doing this life. Mm. Oh, I filled up the momentum and the power. I have
Nathan Wrigley: [01:23:05] this lovely, lovely mock-up called loop.
I
Paul Lacey: [01:23:08] was thinking the same. Ronald. I've been daydreaming about the whole time when they were talking, then there's another
Nathan Wrigley: [01:23:13] one for you, Janet
Ronald Gijsel: [01:23:15] exploding on loop back.
Joe Casabona: [01:23:17] Yeah. Is that from a rogue amoeba? Is that those felons? Yes.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:23:22] Hi Jack audio from any input and stick it anywhere else. So we could take something out of the Chrome browser and push it into here and sat on.
They've got another app called Farago, which is just a bank of sound effects. So you just click the button buttons you've got on your road caster, you know? Yeah.
Joe Casabona: [01:23:39] I use sound source, um, because with the Roadmaster pro and with other interfaces like that, you can't control the volume from your volume buttons on the Mac.
Sound source, lets you do that. Got it. I'm like that is worth the $30 that I paid for this app just so I can press the volume up button on my keyboard and not have to like reach over to the knob.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:24:01] That's great. I'll get that
Paul Lacey: [01:24:03] easy. I am totally, you'll be having to get all these gadgets soon as well. That's right.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:24:10] You can't without extra,
Topher DeRosia: [01:24:12] I've been here because I've been making, um, training videos for years. Uh,
Paul Lacey: [01:24:16] cool. You're sorted.
Topher DeRosia: [01:24:18] We've got a DBX, two 80 success here. I've got this giant microphone and all that kind of stuff. But related to our RV thing, I'm going to have to have a conversation with Joe about this.
Paul Lacey: [01:24:31] Yeah. You need a micro set up don't you really? You need like a,
Topher DeRosia: [01:24:36] I want a compressor and all that kind of stuff in the smallest
Joe Casabona: [01:24:39] possible. Form
Nathan Wrigley: [01:24:41] factor. I was looking today at the little zoom P for the little handheld one. I quite like the look of that. I don't know whether it's got the compression in, but it's got all the mix minus and everything.
So anyway, we totally straight,
Paul Lacey: [01:24:53] no longer there's a couple of times just wanted to highlight. Um, there's been lots of nice comments to that as well. Um, Cameron James wants to know Nathan if you've kicked the habit of buying stuff on AppSumo, um, Cameron, uh, Nathan can probably speak for himself, but I'm just going to just say how awful AppSumo is.
Quality of products. Are these days compared to the. The good old days when we used to waste our money there. Um, Nathan, have you kicked the habit or is it just high quality?
Nathan Wrigley: [01:25:19] The only way, the only reason I bought that app is because I really wanted it. It wasn't a case of I'll explore this. I actually took it and I really went deep and looked at their promo staff and their website, and even wrote them a letter, you know, an email and they replied and it was all good.
And I checked it out. So I'm still in that refund period, but no, I don't. I no longer. I don't, I don't even follow what they do anymore at all.
Paul Lacey: [01:25:44] So no, I used to check the website every day, multiple times, and that definitely showed there was a problem there because it was an addictive website too, to get involved in really.
But, um, just the marketing was so strong, uh, to the, to the right. You know, mindset, which, um, but I never common, um, wife over back up. We've had three people today who are in some way connected with cloud ways. We've got Robert Jacobian there. Uh, Lee, Matthew Jackson is one of the Mavericks and, um, he's been commenting.
Thanks for that. Lee and peach and Arie was also in the comments way back at the beginning. Um, yeah, she was a friend of the show. She's been on a number of times and, um, she's got a conference coming up, um, around, in and around design called design for conversions. And you can find out about that. I designed for conversions.com and it starts on the 17th today.
Oh, it starts today and it's apparently you can get free live access, so, and you can find out the full schedule there. And, um, and it's a four day, four day conference full of information in and around design and OPH has been quite active on podcast recently, given a lot of value. Um, so go and check that out and see if it's something that you can.
You can learn something from, if you are starting a new web design project at the
Nathan Wrigley: [01:27:02] moment. Um, we, is there any other comments? I think Tofor in particular might have to have a hard stop in a couple of minutes. So we'll um, yeah, I wanted
Topher DeRosia: [01:27:12] to, I want to say one more thing before I go, please do a quick story about my job.
Um, I left big commerce on October and immediately went to Canberra creative, uh, um, web development company to do a WordPress Drupal, react, mobile, all that kind of stuff. Um, but I am still the big commerce community representative for WordPress. So, uh, I still have a tie there. I still talk to them all the time.
I'm in there slack all the time. Um, but now I'm out side building websites and stuff, so that's
Paul Lacey: [01:27:49] right. That's right. Enjoying, enjoying that again. Getting back to until, yeah. Yep. Yep.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:27:56] Are you doing more stuff for training?
Topher DeRosia: [01:27:59] Oh, yeah. Yup. Uh, I recently did a series on formidable forms.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:28:05] There you go. Yup. It's uh, and you do all know that, um, tofa was the one who actually told me WordPress all those years ago.
Nice.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:28:14] Yep. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah.
Ronald Gijsel: [01:28:16] It'll pull us in a massive influence to where I am now and like, sorry about that one, Nathan. So, you know, you look into that story. So it is a, it's a good
Nathan Wrigley: [01:28:26] reunion for me here. Oh, it's lovely. Um, are we done Paul?
Paul Lacey: [01:28:30] I'm conscious. I think, uh, you know, um, anyone wants to quickly promote something that they're doing next week.
Uh, go ahead. I think we've already, we've already promoted everything. I'm say,
Joe Casabona: [01:28:46] I feel like I've promoted plenty
Paul Lacey: [01:28:49] Pesa by an adult life.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:28:54] dot com uh, for apps on a.live on Wednesday for the, uh, for the chat with Leslie about newsletter glue. Um, tofa was there anything, or should we get on there?
Topher DeRosia: [01:29:06] Um, recently as a hobby project, I built a site called tofor.how, and, uh, I've been making content all over the web for a long, long time, and it's really just scattered everywhere.
And it's, it's hard for me to keep track of where everything is. And I realized almost all of it's on WordPress sites or other sites with RSS. And so I built a site to just pulls it all into this one place, go for it on how any blog posts and videos and, and like I pulled in wordpress.tv stuff and YouTube stuff and OSTP training stuff.
Um, Stuff from GoDaddy garage, my own blog, all over the place. And it's all in one place. Um, it's not really organized by topic, but it is organized by source.
Joe Casabona: [01:29:52] Um,
Nathan Wrigley: [01:29:53] there's a lot there. There's pagination of 11 pages worth of content. So,
Topher DeRosia: [01:29:59] yeah. Thanks a lot more soon. Uh, oh, is training is, is moving their site from a Dru Juma site to WordPress and then all of my posts, I think they have like 50 posts there over the last 10 years.
Um, so those are all going to be available then I'm gonna pull them over here. Okay. Um, Alrighty,
Paul Lacey: [01:30:20] Leslie, Ronald, your gig with, uh, Robert Jacobi and Bob WP. Is that, is that, do you find that on meetup.com, is that where we find that
Ronald Gijsel: [01:30:28] let's meet up? Yeah, so we did a, um, episode last Thursday with Clara Lee from out of marketing for WooCommerce.
Um, so there'll be another four weeks after for the, for the next one. So it's a, it's a monthly thing. Plus every Wednesday, one o'clock UK time for WooCommerce.
Paul Lacey: [01:30:44] What do we type into meetups to find you on there? Uh, we'll come as
Ronald Gijsel: [01:30:49] London, a Muslim for do-do for, um, for, uh, the round table stuff. Great. And guess what?
We have somebody from CloudWave this Wednesday,
Joe Casabona: [01:31:03] dammit.
Nathan Wrigley: [01:31:07] Even when you got off the call and he's already to make a counter offer. Yeah, yeah. Quickly. This is finished. Honestly, I've got rope, Robert Jacobi on speed dial. Right.
Well, I would just like to say thank you to, well, obviously Paul he's here every single week, despite my mocking of him. I apologize, Paula. I shan't do it ever again ever until next week. And Ronald, thank you for joining us and Joe and tofa thank you all so much. Greatly appreciate it. We'd love to have you all back.
And um, and now we've got to do the awkward wave. So wave until it all ends by.

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