[00:00:20] Nathan Wrigley: Hello there, and welcome once again to the WP Builds Podcast. You've reached episode number 425, entitled From radio addiction, to Do the Woo or Open Channels, Sir Bob Dunn on his podcasting journey. It was published on Thursday the 19th of June, 2025.
My name's Nathan Wrigley and a few bits of housekeeping just before we get started. The first thing to say is that if you'd like to keep up to date with all the bits and pieces that we do at WP Builds, head to wpbuilds.com/subscribe. Over there, you'll be able to find the social channels which you can follow us on, but also there's a couple of email lists which I urge you to sign up for. There's a no spam guarantee.
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Okay, what have we got for you today? Well, it's a chat with my very, very good friend, Sir. Bob Dunn. I've decided that he deserves a knighthood, so from now on he's going to be Sir. Bob Dunn. We have become very good friends in the real world as well as online. More recently, we've been meeting up and are kind of stuck together when we go to WordCamps. It's a little hysterical actually. Basically, if you can find me, you can find Bob and vice versa. We're kind of literally glued together, and I've got Bob on the podcast today so that we can talk about, well, podcasting and WordPress and how the bits and pieces overlap.
How WordPress is great for podcasters, how podcasting is great for WordPress, and how podcasting more generally is great for your endeavor, your business. This open format which makes the whole enterprise so wonderful.
Now, I should say that since the time we recorded this, Bob has changed, Do the Woo is no more. It's become Open Channels. That was all very much on the hush hush, but now it's been released into the world. So any URLs that you might find with dothewoo.io at the beginning have now become Open Channels. So hopefully that's removed that confusion.
But it is a lovely chat. We really get into the weeds of all of the bits and pieces that we use, the technology that we use, the apps and the hardware that we use to podcast.
I really hope that you enjoy it.
I am joined on the podcast by Sir Bob Dunn. How are you doing?
[00:05:01] Bob Dunn: Good. I'm doing good, Sir Nathan.
[00:05:04] Nathan Wrigley: No. the reason we've got Bob on the show today is we're gonna have a chat about podcasting because if you didn't know, Bob has been in the podcasting space for many years, much longer than I have, and I can consider myself to be a bit of an old gentleman the, podcasting space these days.
But you've been at it for so much longer. just first question, it's a bit banal, but I'm gonna ask it anyway, just. Tell the audience who you are and what you do and things.
[00:05:32] Bob Dunn: Yeah, I'll make it short and sweet. I founded Do the Woo Podcast channel. I started in about, oh, I think that one started in 2018, but I'd done, a few other podcasts before then. Yeah, I'm the founder. I podcast on it, but I mostly do a lot of production work, so we have. 30 hosts, and I believe it's 15 shows.
So there's a bit of everything in there for everyone.
[00:06:01] Nathan Wrigley: That's so many things going on in the WordPress space. let's cut it right back though, and I'll just say, dear listener, this really is gonna be probably quite a self-indulgent episode because we're gonna talk about podcasting in the WordPress space. So obviously me and Bob are. Really interested in that. Nevertheless, I hopefully, I hope some of the bits and pieces that we discuss will be of interest to you. So before podcasting, just going back to your, like earlier days when you were still, in your teens or what have you, did you have any relationship with audio, like music or
[00:06:36] Bob Dunn: Oh
[00:06:36] Nathan Wrigley: to talk radio or anything?
Or is it
[00:06:39] Bob Dunn: yeah. Yeah. Oh, I loved, yeah, music, of course. even, as a teenager, younger, I, always was fascinated with, radio. I always thought it was very cool. I listened to a lot of FM radio, so the DJs, I would do it late at night and I. It get stoned outta their minds and then they put on a whole half of a record and then come back 30 minutes later.
But, it was, yeah, it was, even as a kid, I loved having a radio. I carried a radio around. I had a little tiny reel to reel tape recorder where I'd record my own thing, which was really nothing. I just like talking into it, I thought was fascinating. So there's always been something, I've had a big reel to reel player.
I don't know, later in my years, like around high school and yeah, it's just always something I was always told because of my voice. I was told I should have been a DJ or a minister and
[00:07:42] Nathan Wrigley: they're really different.
[00:07:44] Bob Dunn: yeah, really different.
[00:07:47] Nathan Wrigley: I, I have a real strong memory as a kid and I'm not sure whether I've said it on this podcast recently, but, maybe not. I don't know. When I was growing up, the, radio was always on in our house. We had this radio that I couldn't reach. It was on a really high up kind of shelf that I would've had to have got ladders out to turn off, and it was in the kitchen. And basically, whilst. People were awake in our house. radio was on. so it, it went on before I woke up and it was on when I went to bed. and it was fairly low, you could easily talk over it, but my parents were more or less addicted to this radio station called Radio four, and there was nothing but people talking. it would be a show about the news, and then it would be a show about politics, and then it would be a show about, God, goodness knows, almost anything. The BBC has this charter to just fill up the airwaves with something of interest to everybody. So the, spectrum of things that are on is amazing, but I, got from that was. Information via osmosis. I would discover that I knew things and had no idea how I'd learn them. And in typically it would turn out that I'd probably, I probably heard it on the news or something like that. and it was just it on in the background whilst I was talking. I'm a bit like you as well.
I had, players and I had, cassette players and I had reel to reel players and then I.
[00:09:20] Bob Dunn: Eight track.
[00:09:21] Nathan Wrigley: I had an eight track.
[00:09:22] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:09:23] Nathan Wrigley: I also had the sort of poor man's version of the eight track that, the regular cassette that you, it would use for of the tracks and then you could bounce them onto the little task scam thing.
I dunno if you remember those,
[00:09:32] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:09:33] Nathan Wrigley: I really just was thoroughly immersed in it and I learned from an early age that I far preferred audio to TV
I could always be doing something at the same time. So I couldn't read a book and listen. And I couldn't watch a film and listen to audio, but I could do almost anything else.
I could do my homework or I could be on a bike, or I could be out with, in the garden with my friends. You could just do a myriad of other things at the same time. And to this day, that's why I think I like podcasts 'cause I can do stuff at the same time. Sorry, I just went on and on there.
[00:10:09] Bob Dunn: Yeah, no, I, totally get it. And that's why, there's still some people that argue that audio podcasting isn't going away because that's exactly why they listen to it. Because they can do something, exercise, walk the dog. Lay around by the pool, whatever, So yeah, it totally makes sense.
And yeah, it was a, it is something. There was, one of the things, and this is totally off topic and you shouldn't even get me on these things, but when I was in Nashville, or Word Camp us, I think it was, we went to the Johnny Cash, It was a museum or something and somebody wanted to go to, and I, I was never a real big fan of his, but he was also very popular.
The one interesting thing though is they had the, an album there or a record of his that you could listen to starting at an LP and going through each medium up to high digital. CDs and then, then to whatever. And it was amazing to listen to the difference and stuff, but it was, but anyway, I, seemed to be going off on a tangent there.
[00:11:23] Nathan Wrigley: okay. I, I'm really captivated by podcasting and more recently I've got really into the whole podcasting, industry. So if you're listening to this podcast, I imagine you are into the WordPress industry, know the name of a bunch of plugins and you'll probably know the name of a bunch of developers and themes and all of that kind of stuff.
You, you're inside the baseball and I haven't been inside the. Podcast industry baseball until recently when I've just decided I'm gonna subscribe to a load of newsletters and things like that. one of the things that I'm surprised by is how utterly enormous. The industry is, so there's, just imagine WordPress, I'm just gonna make it up.
I have no idea. But the magnitude of it feels like 50 times WordPress
[00:12:17] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:12:18] Nathan Wrigley: know, it's in every country it affects a significant proportion of the people, I dunno what the data is, but a crazy number of people as a percentage in most countries are consuming. Audio podcast in some way, shape, or form. And so there's this whole giant industry behind it that I didn't really have any insight into. And I've got letters, newsletters, got one open at the minute actually by, company called Pod News and they produce a sort of daily newsletter. So there was always talk about. The podcasting going in and out of fashion.
And it rising and it falling. But my impression at the moment in 2025 is it's going gangbusters, going from
[00:12:59] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think too many people that don't really pay attention much beyond maybe, few podcasts they've listened to, they don't realize that, and they don't realize that everyone isn't out there saying, oh, I'm not gonna start a podcast because. Somebody else is doing it well, odds of that is pretty unreal.
And again, it wraps around to the people and not so much a topic 'cause everybody deliver something in their, yeah. Own unique way.
[00:13:31] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. The, other thing about that is as well, is the barrier to entry to creating like TV is really high. The
[00:13:41] Bob Dunn: Oh yeah.
[00:13:42] Nathan Wrigley: good audio is so low now, Really, I'm Bob and I can both see one another and we're both obviously sitting at home. We've bought, I imagine Bob and I have both spent a little bit more than you need to on a variety of different things.
Like I've got a reasonable mic, Bob's got a really nice mic. but you don't need any of that stuff. You basically need a. A, a mic from for about $30. Obviously, the more you spend, the better it becomes and there becomes a point where you that start to spend a lot more for almost no noticeable difference. But you
a computer a microphone and the willingness to talk and that is just phenomenal.
[00:14:32] Bob Dunn: It is. It really is. And I think it's, yeah, it's, it is simple and it's, a thing that, I don't think people should sit there and worry about if they're gonna have a podcast, how many people are gonna listen to it and, get all freaked out about that stuff in the beginning. I think it's that desire to want to do that.
And if you're doing it for the reas, the right reason. And you feel comfortable doing that? if it's just a side thing that you just enjoy and you don't really care one way or another about how many people listen, then do it, enjoy it, have fun. It's like blogging or anything else, just, yeah, it's a very easy, very low barrier.
[00:15:13] Nathan Wrigley: am, I've, so there was this interesting innovation that came, I dunno when it was, but it feels like it was about five years ago. Obviously I. Podcasting had taken hold in more or less everybody's consciousness as a thing. And then I think some big, really big companies like Spotify, obviously everybody knows that as a sort of music channel where you go and listen to the world's music for a subscription fee.
I. They got into it and I think it was a bit of a failure for them 'cause they pitched it wrong and they tried to pay wall everything. Whereas podcasting has this real open flavor to it, and we can get into that in a bit. the same time I noticed that a lot of companies started to launch a podcast and that to me felt like a real mistake because for the reason that you just said, if you're into something. and you want to talk about it, it more or less guaranteed there's somebody that will be willing to listen to it. Now, obviously if you're gonna talk about, I don't know, if you do an entire podcast about only stick insects, you really are like limiting the amount of
[00:16:18] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:16:19] Nathan Wrigley: only so many people, but if that's your thing. All the people who are into that thing will be willing to listen, I'm sure.
[00:16:26] Bob Dunn: Right.
[00:16:27] Nathan Wrigley: don't know, baseball or motor racing or something, where the, dragnet is massive. you really ca the, listener base is potentially absolutely enormous. But we both did WordPress.
[00:16:43] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Yeah, I used to use it. when I did blogging workshops, I used to use the analogy of. If he did a blog, a, podcast about the Naked Mole wrap. I don't know if you've ever seen a picture of that, but look it up. Yeah, it is brutal. But I said there probably are some people that, who knows, maybe even they have naked mole wrap mugs and hats and stuff.
But, there might be a little audience out there. again, like you said, there's huge audiences out there too, depending what your topic is.
[00:17:18] Nathan Wrigley: the, my podcast player. So a, typical, I think, listener of mine will be on a mobile phone probably, because that seems to be the way most people wanna consume it. 'cause it sits in the pocket and it goes to your headphones, which you know, you can be anywhere you like and all of that. And my podcast app of choice is one called Pocket Cast.
It's coincidentally, it's
by automatic.
[00:17:41] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:17:42] Nathan Wrigley: started using it long before Automatic acquired it, and it had a great UU UI and all of that. But when you, look at it in its raw state, when you download the app, podcasts just appear as little square tiles. And if you subscribe to podcasts, that tile binds itself into the UI and then they get reordered depending on when episodes come out. And I was looking at mine just the other day actually, and I'm curious to know where yours goes. My podcast app is dominated by history. I've probably listening
[00:18:14] Bob Dunn: Interesting.
[00:18:16] Nathan Wrigley: history podcasts and then two or three WordPress podcasts, and then there's an eclectic range of just random other stuff. But for me it's history.
And I never talk about history on this podcast 'cause it's not the point,
[00:18:28] Bob Dunn: Just your interest.
[00:18:29] Nathan Wrigley: But it's the thing that, when the WordPress stuff shut down for me, the history stuff starts. And so that's where I've leaned into and there are. I've got at least 12 and there are, I reckon there must be hundreds, possibly thousands more. where do you find yourself when you're not
[00:18:50] Bob Dunn: I don't, I, honestly, I don't listen to that many podcasts, so I'll, sometimes I'll just do it to the people I know if I'm out and stuff, I'll listen to podcasts, so I'm not quite into it as much and I'm not, I. using my phone as much. So I'm really a poor example of, of anything to do with,
[00:19:12] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's right.
[00:19:13] Bob Dunn: and it's terrible to say I don't listen to podcasts that much, but I, really don't, I don't, act A lot of times when I go to, there's a few I do want to listen to because I.
the people or the people that's gonna be on it, but sometimes I'll just skim through the transcript, especially if it's something I'm just, thinking, is this one that came off the cuff? I don't know where it came from, but is it interesting? I'll look through the transcript to see if it might be worth the listen.
[00:19:43] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah,
[00:19:44] Bob Dunn: I'm, totally not the, our best, our best listener then, it is don't mark it to me. Okay.
[00:19:52] Nathan Wrigley: don't need to worry though, because there really are tens of millions of people and they're all looking for things to
[00:20:00] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:20:00] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, I'm always staggered. I think more or less, everybody that I know has at some point consumed one. Whether or
to it all the time, and it's not something that comes up in conversation much like what do you, listen, conversation about what did you watch on TV?
Happens all the time, but
[00:20:18] Bob Dunn: yeah.
[00:20:18] Nathan Wrigley: what did you listen to on your podcast? No, not so much,
[00:20:21] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:20:21] Nathan Wrigley: but, I,
[00:20:22] Bob Dunn: Yeah. what one of the interesting things about that is I found, that dreaded, what do you do? I work in WordPress or something, But then when I became podcaster, I just say, I do a podcast. They go, wow, cool. What's it on?
[00:20:35] Nathan Wrigley: that?
[00:20:35] Bob Dunn: I say, it's tech related. And they go, wow, okay. And they might be interested in ask about it, but actually everybody understands, I'm a WordPress trainer.
Oh, what's that? I'm a podcaster. Oh yeah. I maybe don't even listen to it. They still know what it is.
[00:20:51] Nathan Wrigley: It's a weird word, isn't it? When you actually break it down,
you
[00:20:55] Bob Dunn: it's,
[00:20:55] Nathan Wrigley: often and off, it just loses all meaning.
[00:20:58] Bob Dunn: yeah. And then you start to dwell on it.
[00:21:00] Nathan Wrigley: Like podcast. Okay. yeah, so I, I think that the listener base is there and I think the. The ability to put it, to put one together is amazing.
And I, just wanna break this apart for the listeners who maybe haven't thought about this before. the whole thing about a podcast is that it's basically an RSS feed. I. is essentially all it is. That's what the podcast players are scraping when you go somewhere and you subscribe. So if you are listening to your podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or Pocket Casts, in my case, every time that you subscribe to a podcast, basically what you're doing is providing the RSS feed, and then there's a bunch of tags in the XML of that RM, sorry, RSS feed, which are declaring.
Okay, there's a new episode. What's its title? here's the title tags. What's its description? Here's the description. Where's the image? Here's the image. And so your podcast player is constantly just shouting out anything new, anywhere, anything new, anywhere, anything new, anywhere. And then occasionally somebody's RSS feed will get updated like mine once a week. And your podcast broker, oh. Nice new piece of content,
[00:22:12] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:22:13] Nathan Wrigley: it. And, I just think that's one of the wonderful things about it as well. It's free and open. Nobody can own your content or put you put your podcast out of, business for want of a better word. Yeah, so it's just an RSS feed and nobody can put you out of business if your podcast hosting company just goes out of business or, you just pick it up and move it somewhere else.
[00:22:38] Bob Dunn: Yeah,
[00:22:38] Nathan Wrigley: But also what's nice about that is the content comes onto your. Audiences device and you don't have to do anything to promote it.
[00:22:50] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:22:50] Nathan Wrigley: them, we've got a new episode, they know you've got a new episode because their podcast per, so it like self perpetuates itself and advertises itself, which is amazing. And I just
[00:23:01] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:23:02] Nathan Wrigley: RSS nature of it is pretty cool.
[00:23:05] Bob Dunn: Yeah. And the RSS, I don't know when, I don't even know when RSS actually became RSS, it seems like I've loved it forever for that simple reason. whether it's blog posts or whatever, I still have a, I still use our RSS reader.
[00:23:23] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah,
[00:23:23] Bob Dunn: I would prefer that over newsletters and having that I can go through and pick and choose and have 'em all categorized and stuff.
And I, yeah. It's, yeah, something that I hope never goes away
somehow.
[00:23:39] Nathan Wrigley: I hope so too. Okay, let's get into the technicalities of it. 'cause I said earlier that it was really easy to do. Let's talk about. Like the evolution of your gear over time. Because if somebody was listening to this and thought, oh yeah, I'm gonna give podcasting and go,
[00:23:53] Bob Dunn: Yeah,
[00:23:54] Nathan Wrigley: this thing and that thing, where would you say you began?
What was the suite of stuff that you had back in the day that
[00:24:01] Bob Dunn: it was a, it was, let's see, Camtasia and a microphone. That was it.
[00:24:09] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.
[00:24:11] Bob Dunn: I think I started first doing like video tutorials for YouTube, WordPress stuff, but. It was, I had this one mic I used, I don't know, it was, I think it might have cost me about 99 bucks or something like that.
And yeah, it was, it lasted me quite a long time. And even then people would say, oh, what mic do you have? What mic do you have? Because it was, did the job. And I thought, wow, these two things. Some software, some hardware, and I'm good to go.
[00:24:44] Nathan Wrigley: the, the mic that you need is really not the mic that you want, if saying
[00:24:51] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Oh yeah,
[00:24:52] Nathan Wrigley: be after, actually, Bob's mic that he's got at the moment is like the one that you see on all the big podcasts and things like that. I think it's a sure something or rather, I'm
[00:25:02] Bob Dunn: yeah. Sure. Seven MB I think.
[00:25:05] Nathan Wrigley: yes.
[00:25:05] Bob Dunn: MB seven,
[00:25:07] Nathan Wrigley: B
[00:25:07] Bob Dunn: SMB. Yeah. Seven. Yeah.
[00:25:09] Nathan Wrigley: the sort of flagship Mike. But you didn't begin with that. You just started with
[00:25:13] Bob Dunn: Oh no, I, yeah, I got this about, oh, I don't know if it was three years ago up to that. I used some road mics and different things like that, and I just, there was a point I just thought, I think I'm at the level or the use of it. I need to pay this much for it. Now, in hindsight, I don't know if I really.
Needed to pay that much for it because, I, there was plenty that were still, there's a, actually even a lower model of this one. The sure that a lot of people that I recommend too. But, yeah, I never have recommended this mike to anyone because it's let's say just want to spend a lot of money and really like tech gear and want the best, or it's not the best, but
[00:26:04] Nathan Wrigley: I've
[00:26:04] Bob Dunn: there.
[00:26:05] Nathan Wrigley: I've ended up with the one which is less good than yours, but the one that I've got is a shore one. I think mine is the shore, MV seven. I'll try to remember to put the links in the show notes, but, anyway, you can hear me say it, but, the, what I like about mine is that it plugs directly straight into the computer. and I
[00:26:23] Bob Dunn: USB.
[00:26:24] Nathan Wrigley: so it's got a USB, which sounds like really obvious, doesn't it? But I know that you are one, because not really designed to be connected to a computer. It's designed
[00:26:33] Bob Dunn: All right.
[00:26:33] Nathan Wrigley: to some sort of audio interface.
[00:26:35] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:26:36] Nathan Wrigley: you had to buy an additional thing.
[00:26:38] Bob Dunn: Yeah. You have to buy like a, that's a interface. So there's several different ones. You have to run it through that. And yeah, it's, and I think I bought that because I did my research. I didn't ask AI 'cause it wasn't quite so crazy then. But I did some research and it just. Seemed like it was recommended.
I thought, if I'm gonna really be committing my time to this, but again, I think back when I did it, the USB weren't quite as
[00:27:10] Nathan Wrigley: No.
[00:27:10] Bob Dunn: good. the connection wasn't, but I think they've improved incredibly, and I know most people do have that.
[00:27:17] Nathan Wrigley: The, I think as podcasting has grown, I think a lot of manufacturers, audio equipment manufacturers are leaned in and they've started to design whole suites of products in the podcasting space. So you've now got all the big manufacturers, they've got their. you go to their website, there'll be like a podcasting section and there's a mic, which they claim is, suitable for podcasting.
It's probably not great for recording drums or bands or, singing perhaps, or those dynamic ranges, but for just talking into a microphone, it's perfect. then all of the other bits and pieces that go on top of that. So I know also you've got a, what is that thing that you've called Got? It's a road podcast.
[00:27:59] Bob Dunn: road caster. Yeah,
[00:28:01] Nathan Wrigley: What's
[00:28:02] Bob Dunn: and that's the thing, when I first did it, I had an XLRI, I had a simpler interface and I can't remember what it is, but it's red. I can remember the color of it. Isn't that great? I.
[00:28:13] Nathan Wrigley: a scarlet
[00:28:14] Bob Dunn: Scarlet, because those were like the standard and they really, it did well. But then I thought I need a little better sound.
So I bought the road caster, which again, in hindsight I'm thinking, what did I do this for? Because it's great if you have a studio, because you can get four mics hooked up to it and you can control them. and I'm sitting in my office, all by myself, looking at these other three tracks that I never use.
And then there was a lot of other settings in it so you could go deeper and deeper into all these settings. And as I was telling you earlier, I think I just did too many settings 'cause it just started sounding weirder and weirder. So I reset it and now I'm just following the default settings and just so it's, there's a lot simpler.
They've come out with a lot simpler interfaces that are really good. And if I hadn't invested in this, I'd probably be using one of them.
[00:29:07] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, the one that I've got this, sure. One it comes, so literally USB comes out the back of the mic, I plug it into my Mac and they supply free software, the Mac, which has a bunch of settings, but not many. There's five or six, but it's things like, do you want to, limit how loud things can get or how quiet things can get?
Do you want it to cut off at those point? it's very basic. But again. I've done exactly what you've done. I've switched everything off so that what the mic captures is just how it captures out of the factory when you unbox it. That's how I've now got it set up, and the reason for that is that the software. Not that they ship, but the software that both you and I use now, we will use different ones I'm sure, but the software now is so good at making even fairly bad audio sound really
that you don't
to worry too much about is the mic bassy enough? Don't worry about that. Is it capturing the audio is all you need to worry about without a ton of background noise. And then the you can EQ it and all of those kind of things after the fact.
[00:30:18] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Nathan Wrigley: do, what software are you using to edit yours?
[00:30:22] Bob Dunn: it is, there's a road caster software that, I actually don't use that much, so I have this sip, but then, I. I put it into, Riverside, I record into Riverside, fm and that, similar to the script, I'm sure we'll be talking, but a little bit about those.
But yeah, it's, this has a lot of the settings in the hardware, so the software isn't that, have that many things. So it's, yeah, it is what it is, but it's, I would say it's overkill for probably. one thing is if you're not doing this in the studio and you have several people sitting across from each other, and it's definitely overkill if you're by yourself.
I don't think unless you're some geek that has to get in there and just fine tune it, I think you can screw things up more, then you can make them better.
[00:31:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that's, and you can obsess about it as well. You
[00:31:18] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Oh, it's terrible. Yeah.
[00:31:21] Nathan Wrigley: and over again. I think you're better off just capturing the raw audio. So you mentioned a couple of things there, and let's get onto that. let's imagine that you wanna record a podcast and it's just you into the microphone.
we've got ev all the bases covered there. You just basically need a mic and a computer, or you, honestly, you could just record into an iPhone and then upload it into a computer. the mic in an iPhone is. Probably with, with software, you can probably get a fairly decent sound out of that. But then you've captured the audio, what you mentioned things like Riverside FM and descrip.
Do you wanna just describe what, how they fit
[00:31:56] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Boy, that's a, how would you describe it? 'cause I know you used a script. It's like a, it's basically like a studio online. it's amazing. And the product, post-production especially, all the thing, the editing, you can do both on video and audio and it's transcripts, it's amazing the stuff it does.
[00:32:16] Nathan Wrigley: I, I will, I'll try and impress upon the listeners just how profound I think some of the software is. So if you've been listening to my podcast for the last. Probably the last three years I've been using a, a. Honestly, they say it's a Mac app, but it's not. It's a wrapper for a webpage. It's basically a webpage, and you can record into it now, but you didn't used to be able to, you had to record elsewhere and then upload the files. But software, typically, if there's two people being recorded, so me and Bob, I will throw two audio files at it, one with Bob and one with me. So throw that into script, and then it basically wants to know who's this. And you say, okay, that's Nathan and who's this? Okay, that's Bob. And then let's say that we record for an hour within about, one minute. It will have transcribed the whole lot into English. And I don't speak in another language, but my understanding is that if you speak a language which is fairly widely spoken, then it'll do it into your native language as well. will create a transcript. So imagine a Google Doc basically with just tons of text about what we said in it, and then you can click a button to get rid of the ums and the ahs and the sort of filler words they call it, where people go or or over and over again.
So it'll get rid of those. But also you've now got the text on the screen and you can edit the audio. With highlighting the text. So let's say that I want to get rid of this paragraph that I'm speaking now. I'll just highlight the text, this paragraph I'm speaking now, and click the backspace on my keyboard and off it goes.
It's just, it sounds like it's such an obvious little thing. But it binds the audio to the words and the words to the audio. So you can either highlight in the timeline view, like you've all seen in things like, Camtasia and Logic and all of those, premier and all of those kind of things. But it also, it offers a, an interface where you can edit with words. But the other thing is it's got loads of simple settings for improving the audio and that, I guess it's. They're gonna call it ai, I imagine, something like that. But they've given it this name of studio sound where you take a bit of audio and it's got some, I don't know, some annoying air conditioning hum.
In the background. And it figures out, okay, let's get rid of that. And it just does it, it's a miracle.
[00:34:45] Bob Dunn: somebody has a lot of echo, if they're in a room, you can adjust it to get it to be, to basically eliminate it. It doesn't always do it perfectly, that's the thing. Sometimes you think, oh, this is gonna work magic and it actually makes it sound worse or not any better. So it's, it really depends and it depends on a lot of, I've noticed different accents.
And different languages, it might do it better on one than another. And, one of the things I found out interesting, with the ums and ahs, and I know how you do it, is, I was talking to somebody and they said, wow. I went in there and I, they came up and said there was like, 900 filler words and I just eliminated them all.
And then they went through and said, man. What a mess. And so what people, what's interesting is, and I don't know if you do this, I look at the, what do you call it, the timeline. And that's where,
[00:35:43] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.
[00:35:43] Bob Dunn: for the person out there, that's where you see basically the, what word am I using for
[00:35:50] Nathan Wrigley: isn't
[00:35:50] Bob Dunn: Yeah, the wave form.
[00:35:51] Nathan Wrigley: of the audio.
[00:35:52] Bob Dunn: Yeah. So somebody may say, but it's a run on. so that's. blends into the word. So if you have it, take it out. It just gets cut off. So it might cut off some of the other words sometime. And then the other interesting thing is that it'll, what am I, now I lost my toll train of thought here on this.
[00:36:19] Nathan Wrigley: gonna
[00:36:20] Bob Dunn: Oh
[00:36:20] Nathan Wrigley: Whilst you think though, so you carry
[00:36:22] Bob Dunn: yeah. Okay. Okay.
[00:36:24] Nathan Wrigley: that is to say that, yeah, so the way I work it is basically. I two options. If I feel at the end of the interview that the ums and the, because I do listen with that in mind. If at the end of the interview I feel that the guest really was doing a lot of that and it was gonna be hard to listen to, then I'll go through and I'll edit.
I'll just listen to the whole thing and edit bits out as I see fit. if I feel that, that they don't. just doesn't merit that basically the conversation flowed and there was an occasional thing. Then I'll just make a note on a piece of paper next to me. don't do any of that.
And when I come to edit it, I'll just. Give it a pass and I'll just assume it's fine and listen to bits here, there and everywhere. I do a different podcast for, Tavern and I really drill down on that. I spend and really quite a long time editing it and getting all the ums and the ahs out, so it's a different approach to that one as well. Anyway, after that padding, what, did you remember what you wanted to say?
[00:37:27] Bob Dunn: Oh yes. one of the things is if a word gets clipped off, and this is another really bizarre thing that's hit and miss, is they have a thing called regenerate. And I'm sure it's ai, but if you select a single word, it will regenerate it in that person's voice. And I would say I. Seven times outta 10, it's really good.
Sometimes it's, it's almost too, especially if they're talking excitedly or their voice is going up and down, it's get, can get to that word and kind of it's, you can tell it changes drastically, but there's,
[00:38:01] Nathan Wrigley: go from speaking high to one word that's low or
[00:38:05] Bob Dunn: yeah. And sometimes they'll actually, I've had a really, oddly enough, grab the wrong voice. or create some voice, like where did that come from? I don't know if they couldn't understand it, but it's, it is, there's a lot of little, what do you want to call it? Intricacies in that software, you can go as deep as you want or you can really do a good job of, editing with really not a lot of effort.
[00:38:32] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it is amazing. What, why do you use that regenerate, and if so, why is it that when you've just heard a word, you just think, it just sound like something went wrong at that? Or maybe
[00:38:44] Bob Dunn: if somebody, something in the just, whether it's the internet and the name, the word isn't. It is what did they just say?
[00:38:55] Nathan Wrigley: out or something like
[00:38:56] Bob Dunn: Yeah, it, yeah. It sounds like they just said some little sound and. It works sometimes and it doesn't work. Sometimes I don't, you could take forever and if you want to do more, sometimes if you choose to do more than one word, several words, then you actually have to have that person read into a script for they have their voice, they give you a script that person would read into, which I'm not gonna go back to them and say, Hey, you said a lot of ums or whatever, and now I'm gonna make you read the script.
But it's, yeah, it's, and it's amazing how much. Sometimes on certain podcasts that how, if you were to eliminate every, and and you could knock out like, probably 10 minutes on some podcasts.
[00:39:43] Nathan Wrigley: done that. So way that my setup works is that I have a, booking link online and I give people the booking link and they book a slot to talk to me. so it's almost like Zoom and then we do what you and I are doing now, we, I'm recording it. You'll, you are not recording it, if it was the other way around, you'd be recording it and I wouldn't be recording it, but, so people book on. And then I leave it in script, edit it, and then put it out and what have you. So I'm involved in all of the different bits and pieces of that work, and it's my voice on the podcast and what have you. You've gone in a different direction recently, haven't you? You've decided to become more of a, I dunno how to describe it, like a podcast manager or something?
[00:40:24] Bob Dunn: Yeah, it's, I kinda, sometimes I call it a channel. somebody had given me a network, they said, and I said, no. It's not really a network to me, a network be pulling in other podcasts, that are individually done so, so I chose to step back from it and started with, one host on episode five back whenever, and then I eventually added three more hosts and then I just kept adding more hosts and more voices, which it's great.
you get all these different. Inside different personalities in there. And so I've got, like I said, ear earlier, I've got 30 hosts and 15 shows. So they all sometimes cross over into other shows or they have their own show. And I also let them often choose a guest. unless they want me to find somebody, I'll do it, but it's, it's great, but it's.
You, it's herding cats in a way, and I'm not saying that in a negative way, but it is, it's a, it's not for somebody that is totally flexible or can hand over things. I, and because cancellations people change when you got that many people between the guests and the hosts, we're moving stuff constantly.
My calendar. I have reworked my calendar so many times and it's just, I don't know if there's ever, there's never a perfect app out there that will do what I want to do. I always have to cut some corner, but it's, yeah, it makes it very interesting and I love it. I love doing this. It's a different approach, but, it's where I'm at in my journey or whatever you want to call it,
[00:42:16] Nathan Wrigley: though? Do you miss getting in front of the mic and doing the interviews and
[00:42:20] Bob Dunn: don't, in fact, sometimes I dread it now when, 'cause I'll fill in sometimes and I started in a new show where I'll be on once a week in that show as a co-host. But I don't miss it as much as I thought I would. In fact, I'm, it's something, I guess a production part of It feel, I feel, you're doing both and we're, I'm doing, both in a sense, but.
There's something with moving into the production part, which most people hate. I've enjoyed getting into it more and more 'cause it's another new piece and there's always stuff coming out and things you can do and ways you can, whether you're doing post-production or generating content for other marketing purposes and stuff.
I love that new learning part
[00:43:12] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah,
[00:43:13] Bob Dunn: and I.
[00:43:14] Nathan Wrigley: are able to concentrate on also, like you are really, you innovate a lot, I think as well in terms of like just figuring out how to engage the audience and your commitment to posting different kind of formats to, to draw people in on social media. We often chat about this and I'm always inspired by how you've, you've always given it a bit of extra thought.
I tend to be a little bit more laissez-faire about it and. Put the podcast out, and in many cases, the RSS feed is what I do. whereas you are
able to, because you're probably really skilled now with the editing stuff, you can repurpose it and take little snippets out and post this little two minute thing on LinkedIn because you think there's a nugget of information in there which might draw people to show and so on.
So that's nice and a real pivot from talking into a mic every day.
[00:44:04] Bob Dunn: Yeah, it is. And I enjoy it and I do. Very seldom do they record without me. I am, I'm usually there behind the scenes. I'm.
[00:44:14] Nathan Wrigley: you? Okay.
[00:44:15] Bob Dunn: Yeah, I almost, I would say 98% of the shows I am, I meet, I introduce myself. I, in Riverside, fm, the platform I used to record. You can be set yourself as a producer. I. And what this does is it makes your little, an extra window that you can move around in size, and then when you mute and turn off your video, you disappear from it.
So you're never recorded or anything.
[00:44:44] Nathan Wrigley: Got
[00:44:44] Bob Dunn: And it's, it's in fact, somebody just described me recently that I'm, oh, I wish I could get it. Somebody, Katie, Keith said, I'm like, I'm up in heaven watching over there, watching over everybody and then I'm correcting the older mistakes or something. it was great.
I wish I could remember the exact words.
[00:45:06] Nathan Wrigley: that you've got like about 15 different shows and 30 hosts. How often do those shows drop? So in a typical week, how many bits will you have needed to have edit edited? I.
[00:45:15] Bob Dunn: Y in a perfect world, IW would, I would've planned almost every day. But because of changes, because of people traveling, it's random now. 'cause every show that I have is typically once a month, but then there's sometimes we throw in an extra one. So it's. Is, I have enough shows that I can keep it pretty constant, but there's, there's those times that come that, things go sideways or, everybody seems to be traveling and so it's, yeah, it's something that, I guarantee my sponsors a certain amount and I will make sure that's in there, but often it's above and beyond that.
[00:46:04] Nathan Wrigley: if you've got 15 shows and you are trying to do each of those once a month, so that's about 15 shows a month. That's roughly one. Every couple a day. That's a lot. One ev.
[00:46:18] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:46:18] Nathan Wrigley: more or less launching one or publishing one every other day.
[00:46:23] Bob Dunn: Yeah. And two of the shows tried to go for twice a month.
[00:46:26] Nathan Wrigley: Wow.
[00:46:27] Bob Dunn: I think it's two of them. And there's some of them, like I have one called WordPress Event Talk that just happens when we get somebody in talking about an event that is going to happen or has happened. So it's if you try to keep a real rigid schedule, you have it.
Like I have everybody. I have to the first year send everybody invites for the entire year, which is a total. Oh, it's a nightmare. it's just a mess because no calendar does this, nobody, because my model isn't something, a lot of people are doing. So I have very unique needs and I've gotta do it.
So it's, yeah, I try to get everything set up. It's okay, this is on your calendar, this date, this time with my host, your show. But hey, we can change. We can cancel, we can do what we need to do because all my hosts volunteer their time and they've accepted it because obviously, and I think they also like being able to do a podcast and not worry about anything, but I.
[00:47:33] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, just hit record and
[00:47:34] Bob Dunn: Talking. Yeah.
[00:47:35] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.
[00:47:36] Bob Dunn: so it's, it's, and I've took, they come in with a sense of, Hey, if this doesn't work, you tell me. If you need to suddenly leave even on a dime because maybe a new job or whatever, do it. you can move on. I love what you've been able to do and stuff, and a couple of them have come back too.
They've taken a break and come back.
[00:48:01] Nathan Wrigley: I am. I was reading your blog the other day. I can't remember which of the proper. That you've got, it was on, but it was about the kind of when to know when to kill a podcast. I was curious about that. Do you, with those 15, do they, do you only go to 16, to 17 to 18, or do you ever go back down to 10?
do you often decide this show's not working, let's try something else? Or do you just keep going doggedly.
[00:48:28] Bob Dunn: what's, I don't see it just keep growing because, there are ones we've, I've said, I had one thing called All Things WordPress and WooCommerce. I change it because we had a two or three different hosts under that and they do these different shows. yeah, it's constantly changing.
It's never boom, I'm just gonna add a bunch of shows. I can add shows I just did. quite a few shows recently, but sometimes I'll, it is, so if I have a show and then maybe I have three hosts and they all do a different topic under that show, then there's been times that we pulled it out and made it a show itself.
let's see. So like with all things WordPress and. WooCommerce, somebody was talking mostly about emerging tech, so they were talking about Bitcoin, ai, all that stuff. So we decided to pull that out and put it under a different one. So I am moving things around a lot, and I don't, I'm at a point where I should subtract and not add,
[00:49:37] Nathan Wrigley: I guess you gotta keep the, you gotta keep the show hosts happy and the sponsors happy a little bit.
[00:49:43] Bob Dunn: and a lot of the reasons I change it is because that they, a couple, one of the hosts recently said, I'm on this show. It's just not quite, I wish I could be talking about this. So we shifted the her over and then move somebody else in. So it's, yeah, I want 'em, keep them happy and doing what they want to do.
'cause. I don't want them to be talking about something they're either tired of talking about or feel there isn't enough to talk about.
[00:50:10] Nathan Wrigley: you ever regret just binding yourself entirely to WordPress, WooCommerce? Do you ever wish you could pivot into some other. Like obviously you could start another podcast. that's got nothing to do with WordPress. I don't know,
[00:50:23] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:50:23] Nathan Wrigley: Formula One podcast. That was just some random thing. But do you ever wish that you hadn't have in the tech world?
Because I sometimes do. 'cause I feel the title of mine is obviously WP Builds and it's got WP right at the beginning and for many years. That's all I wanted to talk about, but it constrains a little bit what I could talk about. So right now AI might be a subject many in my. Audience would be listening in
[00:50:49] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:50:49] Nathan Wrigley: be curious about that.
But I I can't necessarily do it. So actually, this is a bit of an odd episode 'cause we're not really digging into WordPress too much. We'll get into that as a sort of way
[00:51:00] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[00:51:00] Nathan Wrigley: it off in a minute. But, do you ever wish that you'd not constrained yourself so much?
[00:51:07] Bob Dunn: it's interesting because there are times you think, oh, what if I would've done this or whatever, but I think I would've been constrained into something, I don't know exactly what that be because something too generic might be. It might not work or whatever, but the interesting kind of little bit of history, so when I named it Do The Boo, it was primarily WooCommerce and I started adding in after some time more WordPress, because WordPress was always talked about, it's obvious, the two.
So I started separating out some of those and then. I added, a show called Open Web Conversations, and that is not just about WordPress. It's, like they have, there's an expanding the stack for developers looking at others. all the tools out there. more around, yeah, open web fedi verse.
not always related directly to WordPress, but how I work that or how I work in my mind. I even talked about this to the sponsors and also to WooCommerce, is that everything I do still reflects on the person that builds with Woo. So if they're there, they're going to, probably a lot of the WordPress ones will interest them because they're obviously working in WordPress.
Or some of the open web stuff that hey, might be interesting to hear about other things going on. It's not trying to push 'em out of WordPress, it's just learn about something new, step out the bubble and learn more really what the Fed averse is, rather than just what the Fed averse does for WordPress.
So you have to creatively. Twist and turn and find ways to do it. And I feel like the podcast, and we were talking a little earlier, I think our podcast, no matter the evolution of WordPress or whatever, there's, we're in this space where we could segue or make a change or adapt to what's going on.
and I think that's one of the things we're lucky with. But, yeah, sometimes I think, oh, maybe I should have done, I did, I've done nine or 10 podcasts, and a lot of them were my, I had one that lasted, I think five episodes
[00:53:37] Nathan Wrigley: Oh,
[00:53:37] Bob Dunn: and yeah, it was called, it was the most horrifying, podcast you'll ever, probably have listened to.
It was called, Bob Wps Neighborhood.
[00:53:48] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.
[00:53:49] Bob Dunn: And Mr. Rogers neighborhood, which is known mostly globally. the Children's Show from the United. So I took it on that I wore a sweater like Mr. Rogers and I would interview people and talk about fun stuff. And I, the very first show I did, I, I did on video and I walked into the room and did his.
Oh, if anybody's watched it, I went in and took off a jacket and put on my sweater and I put on some comfortable shoes and it was pretty horrifying when I really looked back on it. So some podcasts haven't quite worked out, I got something in my head and I thought, oh, I'll give this a try.
And
[00:54:28] Nathan Wrigley: know though, right? 'cause the,
[00:54:29] Bob Dunn: yeah, you don't.
[00:54:31] Nathan Wrigley: for me, so I basically only do WordPress e podcasts. I haven't really tried anything else, but I'm always surprised by the episodes, which resonate with the audience. And it, there's no connection between what I think is good and what the wider world
[00:54:45] Bob Dunn: No,
[00:54:45] Nathan Wrigley: So I'll get lots of commentary about one that I think, oh, I'm not sure if. People will, get much out without one. And then other ones where I think, oh, this'll be really a hit and maybe it's
[00:54:57] Bob Dunn: nobody.
[00:54:58] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, I think in my future I am gonna try doing a variety of different podcasts.
Maybe, maybe a sort of history kind of thing, or a fact-based one or something. I quite like the idea of those kind of things, but I haven't done yet. Let's just round it off with WordPress, and
[00:55:14] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:55:17] Nathan Wrigley: I'm guessing, in fact, I know the answer to this. You are using a WordPress website in order to publish your podcast.
You don't really have to do that. 'cause a lot of the platforms will do a half, it's a bit of a half baked job. Most of the time they've all got some kind of URL that you can link to, but it's not
you and I are using WordPress, which for me is just the perfect tool for producing a podcast.
Yours is, yours is something which you've recently. I dunno how to describe it. you've, you are getting some assistance with that, aren't you? in the recent past?
[00:55:50] Bob Dunn: Yeah, because when I, when I was given a, and I'll say it, Matt Mullen, the founder of WordPress, gave me what he called. They have, it's a special projects team. I. That they work on certain projects, so they rebuilt my site, which I really needed because of the way I was building it out and the channel and everything.
so it is on wordpress.com and I'm using Casto still. That's the hosting that I use for the podcast. And yeah, it's. It's, it's a great, it's a great gift for me. It's amazing. I don't, have to do things I don't have to maintain if I have an idea.
[00:56:36] Nathan Wrigley: I use WordPress. My WordPress is not with.com, it's just a.org website, which I run myself, some hosting, but, but I use CAOs as well.
CAOs is a plugin for WordPress. It's a SaaS app as well as a plugin, but basically it allows you to, with a meta box inside the. The post or block editor, it allows you to upload your, audio so you don't have to go to a third party service. and then the content that you put in your, editor will become the description in the RSS feed.
So it basically makes WordPress a first class citizen. There may be other solutions which do that inside of WordPress. I've never come across them. CAOs the one that I prefer, and I can link to that in the show notes. it basically just makes WordPress, just really, usable.
And with that in mind, dear listener, I'm gonna drop something a bit weird. I, along with some friends of mine, In the process of launching a podcasting plugin, I'd be curious if
[00:57:44] Bob Dunn: Woo hoo.
[00:57:44] Nathan Wrigley: listening to this is, interested in potentially trying it out. you really do have to have a podcast or at least an RSS feed, but we're looking for some, beta testers and if that. If that's of interest to you, it's got to do with podcast players and making them look nice. just gonna drop that right at the end of the podcast, see if anybody gets to this point and hears it. If you want to be a part of that, go onto the wp builds.com website and just forward slash contact. just drop your email address and, say you wanna be part of the, the podcast player beta testing and,
[00:58:22] Bob Dunn: Yeah. And it's very cool. I can attest to that. I've gotten a few,
[00:58:26] Nathan Wrigley: just say
[00:58:27] Bob Dunn: Yeah. Sneak peek. And can I just drop one last thing also for people that want to repurpose their audio, I. Nathan introduced me to a tool that I now wallow in many hours all the time because it's just amazing what it does.
it's called Cast Magic,
[00:58:46] Nathan Wrigley: is.
[00:58:46] Bob Dunn: it basically, you drop in your audio and it'll repurpose it into all sorts of content, of course, and to customize it, manipulate it. Then, you can flavor it to your own voice or whatever afterwards, edit it and stuff, but it is. It is beyond words. It's even hard to describe because it just does, blog posts.
It'll do to basically whatever you ask it will do, but it's got that I don't know what training that it really does well with the audio and it does amazing things.
[00:59:20] Nathan Wrigley: an AI that, so you know how when you're in a normal layer, you can get it to do one thing at once? they have got an ai, so it does do one thing at once, but then it just layers them on top of each other. So you chuck in your audio. So if I chucked in the audio of me and Bob, and it would say, who's this?
And I'd say, this is Bob and who's this? This is Nathan. And then. It, a wheel kind of spins and whilst the wheel is spinning, it's going to, its AI agent. I honestly dunno which one they use, but I, imagine it's, chat GPT or what have you, and it's ask and it's feeding the audio. Maybe it's not the audio.
Maybe it's the text. I'm not sure the transcript, I'm not sure. But it's feeding it loads of prompts, so it's saying. Give us 10 titles and then give us a short post description and then give us a long post description and then pick out things that might be of interest on LinkedIn and pick out things that might be the most five relevant things that, and 10 questions that you could ask from us.
And then it dumps it all into one UI so that you've got so you've just overwhelmed with, different things that you can then do. It doesn't actually push the content to other platforms. it won't send something to TikTok or to Facebook or to Twitter or whatever, but it will just give you text-based things in return that will then just stimulate an idea. And I know started using it what, a few weeks ago, and you're kind
[01:00:40] Bob Dunn: Yeah, it,
[01:00:41] Nathan Wrigley: you?
[01:00:42] Bob Dunn: oh, yeah, it is. Because I've always been about repurposing content and, not, I, don't particularly always like thinking of using AI to create new content, but if I have existing content, and it can, this thing saves you loads of time. And then with each one of the prompts, like you said, you can go back to it and it'll say.
Make it shorter, make it longer. Do you want to add an additional, I did something, for Facebook, not Facebook. I'm, I've been on Facebook, LinkedIn, and I added in, it was a kind of a short article or a, newsletter article, and I asked it, now throw in three poll quotes from this person, and then it interjected those.
So it, yeah, it's, yeah, it's a repurposing master of audio.
[01:01:33] Nathan Wrigley: but I'm glad that I did.
[01:01:35] Bob Dunn: Yeah.
[01:01:35] Nathan Wrigley: I use it a lot now, but yeah, it's, not the sort of thing that you'd wanna use entirely, but it just gives you that little Okay. Oh,
[01:01:42] Bob Dunn: Oh
[01:01:43] Nathan Wrigley: I never thought of that.
[01:01:44] Bob Dunn: exactly.
[01:01:45] Nathan Wrigley: and it does what I, what AI does best, I think, which is take a corpus of data and work. On that only, it's not trying to reach out and give you an answer for some random thing that's
[01:01:56] Bob Dunn: Exactly.
[01:01:58] Nathan Wrigley: here's a podcast just. Drill into that and tell us information about that. Okay. So there we go. So there's your, podcasting diatribe with, with me and, Bob Don.
Hopefully that's been of interest. Dear Listener, it's always a pleasure chatting to Bob and I, we're at a word camp together, we're stapled together. We don't tend to, don't tend to do anything else apart from just hang out, which is really nice. So it's a pleasure having you on. podcast today, Bob, the best with, with Do the Woo. And let's hope that in the near future you're up to 89 shows or something like that. And
[01:02:33] Bob Dunn: Oh geez.
[01:02:34] Nathan Wrigley: be bound to your desk forever more.
[01:02:38] Bob Dunn: thanks for having me on. It was great.
[01:02:40] Nathan Wrigley: welcome.
Okay, that's all we've got time for this week. I really hope that you enjoyed that. If you did, head to wpbuilds.com. Search for episode number 425, and leave us a comment there. If you didn't enjoy it, well, I suppose you could do the same thing. Head to wpbuilds.com, search for episode number 425, and leave us a comment there.
It was very, very nice chatting to Bob, and I hope that you can infer from the audio that we have become very good friends. He's such a lovely, lovely chap.
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Okay. That's nearly it. That's almost all of it. But a couple of things to mention before we go.
Don't forget. If you'd like to advertise on WP Builds, head to wpbuilds.com/advertise. And join us live, wpbuilds.com/live. Monday, 2:00 PM UK time, for the This Week in WordPress. We'd love to have you there commenting on all of the bits and pieces that our guests bring to the show.
Okay. Truly, that is it. I'm gonna fade in some cheesy music and say stay safe, have a good week, bye-bye for now.
