419 – Elementor V4 unveiled with Gabriella Laster

[00:00:20] Nathan Wrigley: Hello there and welcome once again to the WP Builds podcast. You've reached episode number 419, entitled Elementor v4, unveiled with Gabriella Laster. It was published on Thursday the 24th of April, 2025. My name's Nathan Wrigley, and before that chat about Elementor, a few bits of housekeeping.

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Okay, what have we got for you today? Well, today I am chatting all about Elementor v4, version four. I'm chatting to Gabriella Laster, who comes from Elementor. And we get into the conversation today about, well, what is Elementor v4?

Why was there a whole major rewrite of the code base? What was the point of that? We talk about the performance improvements, a entirely new CSS first approach, which is gonna really modify things if you are a current Elementor user. Hopefully the UI will be intuitive and easy to follow, and there'll be some enhancements to workflow features.

So a really major update to the way things work under the hood. I'm assured that it won't break things, so hopefully you current Elementor users will just have a new UI to look forward to, and some different bits and pieces to go and play with, and Gabriella is gonna explain all about that. And I hope that you enjoy it.

I am joined on the podcast by Gabriella Laster. Hello, Gabriella.

[00:04:53] Gabriella Laster: Hi, Nathan. How are you?

[00:04:55] Nathan Wrigley: Good. Very nice to have you with us today. We're gonna be talking a lot today about Elementor, whether you knew it or not, Elementor is about to have a fairly significant update. It's called version four, and Gabriella is here today to talk to us all about that. Before that, Gabriella, just maybe a minute, 30 seconds, something like that.

Can you just tell us a little bit about who you are? Maybe how long you've been working with Elementor, your WordPress journey, what, whatever you like, really. So over to you for a little bio.

[00:05:24] Gabriella Laster: Sure. So I am Gabriella. I'm a product marketing director at Elementor, and I've been here for a little over three and a half years. that is also when I truly became part of the WordPress ecosystem and community. I think that I've probably dabbled a little bit with WordPress in previous roles. I've been in marketing for over 10 years, so I've had to update blogs occasionally.

but I don't think I actually knew what WordPress was or how big WordPress was until I joined Elementor.

[00:05:59] Nathan Wrigley: And then of course, how big Elementor is. Inside of WordPress. I don't know if I've been making podcasts in the WordPress space for nearly nine years now. And when I began, Elementor was not even around. and then a few similar tools, we call them page builders, for want of a better word, came along and really started to take over in the WordPress space.

And Elementor was a little bit late to the party. it came along a year or two after some other ones. But very quickly, the numbers for Elementor just went up and up and overtook everybody. And for a really long period of time, Elementor was in the news all the time because they got a new feature, this new thing, that new thing and what have you.

And actually. When you look at the growth of WordPress over the last eight or nine years, a fairly significant chunk of WordPress's growth is directly coming out of the product that you, have, Elementor is a significant slice of the WordPress pie, and so there's millions. Of elemental websites out there, and because there's millions of elemental websites out there, if you are gonna change things and you're gonna tell us about that in a minute, if you are gonna change things, I'm guessing you have to be fairly careful because it's not one or two websites.

There are literally millions of things that could go wrong and you've gotta make sure that's all catered for. So there's no, question there. I was just making the observation that, Elementor is enormous, basically.

[00:07:39] Gabriella Laster: And there's definitely something we keep in mind as we think about how to roll this out and how this is gonna impact websites or users. it's a, it's a huge consideration for

[00:07:50] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. all the, talk about Elementor in the past and the updates and the features that have been added and so on, they've always, in the past, at least in my head, been fairly incremental. So there's been a, we've got a new feature. Go and check it out. Here's another new little feature.

We've moved a setting around and so on. But this, I don't think is that, so version four almost feels like a complete rewrite. obviously it's not, and we'll try to, to make the case for, if you're a current element or user. there's no chicken little moment here. Hopefully the sky is not falling in.

But tell us, why. version four needed to exist. What's different about it than everything that came before it?

[00:08:37] Gabriella Laster: elementary's been around for over eight years at this point. Over this time, we have introduced many, different, features and capabilities. In the beginning. The, at the very beginning, each version was able to introduce a lot more features 'cause there was. A he a larger gap to close at that point.

and then Everest. In the past couple of years, the versions became a little bit more incremental. We had so many capabilities available already, and every new capability we wanted to introduce became a lot more complicated because you have to take into consideration all of the previous code that existed and how you modify how you introduce a new feature and integrate it with all the code that had already existed.

And how do you make sure that you do that without breaking any of the 18 million websites that exist? so part of the reason we're building editor V four is we want to obviously introduce a more modern code. and that will also enable us to introduce many capabilities that we've wanted to do for a while.

But it was very difficult for us to do with the current version and the current, the way it was built currently.

[00:09:54] Nathan Wrigley: I guess any developer will know this moment where, your technology, the technology just moves on, and the thing that you've built, if you want to update it. You've gotta do a pretty, you can get away with updating the current code base for long, a long period of time, but at some point, typically you have to go back and rewrite a whole bunch of stuff.

So we're recording this in the middle of April. 2025 and I will hopefully get this episode out fairly swiftly. But how, what is the kind of timeline that you're looking at for, actually launching it? I know that you're probably gonna go through a batch of testing and what have you. Just tell us about the alpha, beta and then final release date, should everything work out.

And obviously we won't hold you to any of that 'cause there might be some hiccups along the way.

[00:10:42] Gabriella Laster: So we're taking this entire year to build a really solid. V four, the first alpha version that we plan on introducing the beta version of it. So the first, first ever introduction of it is planned for the end of April, should all the testing go as expected. and then after that we plan on having incremental releases.

So the first introduction is going to be pretty massive. it's gonna introduce the entire infrastructure of what we want to introduce going forward. we'll be introducing a number of different, widgets or atoms we're gonna call them going forward, and many different features and capabilities.

Some of them we don't have at Elementor today. And we'll be part of V four.

[00:11:24] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So during the course of 2025, you're basically rolling it out over the next six months or so, but hoping to begin getting it into tester's hands within a couple of weeks of us recording this podcast. I.

[00:11:37] Gabriella Laster: yes,

[00:11:37] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay. And I know the primary concern for elemental users, and let's be honest, there are literally hundreds of thousands of people out there who make their living off your product.

they're freelancers, their agencies and what have you, and clients come to them. We want a website. And so they, reach for what they know, Elementor, and they build those websites. And I know the, concern is gonna be firstly. Will it break this new dramatic code base rewrite? And secondly, will I have to learn the UI again?

is everything gonna be moved around or will it basically look familiar? So let's take that one first. Is it gonna be a big design change as well? If I launch V four, on the day it finally comes out and I'm not being part of a beta test or anything like that, should it look basically the same?

[00:12:28] Gabriella Laster: If you're waiting until the entire V four is available and usable, then it will probably look a little bit different. Also very familiar. we're trying, we're doing two things. One thing is we're trying to keep the EI as familiar as possible on the one hand, but also modernize it a little bit. we still wanna make sure that these user experience is incredibly intuitive and we are spending.

The next couple of months trying to phase people into the new, version. So we're taking this time to also gradually introduce new features and capabilities and giving you the ability to decide when you opt in and giving you also the opportunity to start getting used to the new capabilities and, the new ui.

It's not going to be a massive overhaul. It will still look very familiar. It's just going to be a lot more intuitive.

[00:13:25] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so it'll be icons on the left, drag things into the canvas in the middle, and then there's maybe some additional settings in different places. In other words, it's not gonna be like, okay, you switch overnight and suddenly where the heck is everything. It's more a case of, oh, okay, that's curious.

That's moved a little bit. Or the icon for that has changed. Or the menu, it's gonna be fairly modest. you're hoping that the UI will. Broadly be familiar with for somebody that's dropping in who's been familiar with it. Okay.

[00:13:56] Gabriella Laster: it's still gonna look like a mentor. It's not, it is not gonna look like an entirely different builder all of a

[00:14:01] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. And from the point of view, probably the crucial question for somebody that's used Elementor is. Is it intended that you'll be able to just carry on using it on existing sites or is there some dependency? Is there a breaking change anywhere anticipated? In other words, will, will you be encouraging people to use V three X, whatever that is, and then switch over to four with care?

Or should it just be a case of okay, just get on with it. It version four's now out, nothing will, should break.

[00:14:35] Gabriella Laster: So for the foreseeable future, they both are going to

coexist. So enabling V four is not going to break anything on your website. You're gonna be able to use V four components or keep features, capabilities. With V three on your website, you are not obligated to update your website entirely to V four. So if you have an existing website and you wanna add a new page or you wanna add a a new section to a page, you can use V four on that page and it will coexist with V three.

having said that, there might be. Because we're introducing new features in V four, they won't work on V three elements. So if, for example, I introduce a new feature in V four, a new styling feature in V four, I won't be able to necessarily use it on a V three

[00:15:31] Nathan Wrigley: Got it. Got it. Let me just see if I've understood that perfectly then. So the way that you've described it, it sounds like this to me, you'll have. If you choose, if you're bringing an existing website, which is V three, you'll have the option to have V three and V four running at the same time. And maybe if you've got a V three page say, there will be parts of that which may not map perfectly.

And so things you know, you might have to rewrite in. Pages against the V four standard. But if, obviously if you're creating new pages, you probably wanna do that in the V four interface, just 'cause that's where all the new shiny, non braking stuff is. But will that then, firstly, is that about right? Is that, have I encapsulate that about,

[00:16:16] Gabriella Laster: Close. I think that maybe one part was misunderstood. On the same page, you can use V three and V four. You can have a section that is fully V four. You just can't apply V four styling features to V three elements on

[00:16:31] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, I, did misunderstand that. So you can, combine the two in both places, but the bits that make up the page, the rows and the modules and the, elements, I should say, they, that's maybe where the problem might lie. Okay. So that, that then hopefully will make the change over to V four much more simple.

'cause maybe it'll just be this one little bit that you've got to change if you wish to roll over to V four. Okay. Does that then mean that we'll have two. Elemental plugins go in at the same time. I'm guessing not. It'll just be one plugin with a V three section and a V four section.

[00:17:08] Gabriella Laster: yeah,

[00:17:08] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

Okay. Okay. So let's address why the heck you are putting yourself through all this pain, because, you've got an existing code base, it works, but clearly technology moves on. Maybe the people, the, developers over at Elementor kind of thinking, there's a lot coming down the road.

CSS. And all of those kind of things are changing the whole time. What are the things which have been identified as, okay, this is why we need to change it. The two, three big things.

[00:17:40] Gabriella Laster: We want to be able to improve performance tremendously. So that's one aspect of it. I think the CSS first approach. Will empower us and our users to be able to design, to improve their workflow, to design more consistently, to build more responsive websites. And it will also enable us to introduce many more features a lot faster than we have been able to in the past couple of months.

so I think at the end of the day, it's worth it. I don't know. I, wouldn't consider it a pain. it's a little bit of a pain, but also I think it's very exciting.

[00:18:15] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, the, genuine thing about the internet is it literally never slows down. It's constantly changing, and you've got, the WC three constantly adapting and modifying and expanding particularly what CSS can do. And a tool like yours, you'll be left behind if you don't adapt.

But I'm curious, you said CSS. First, I think that's what

Just encapsulate that. Tell, me what that means. Because at the moment if I use almost any page builder, I go in, I drop in the elements or the modules, what, whichever page builder you are using. And then I toggle settings. I do sliders, I type in numbers for padding and so on.

And really, I'm not, often getting involved in the CSS and writing CSS classes and things like that. Is that more where you are pushing people towards, writing CSS or is it a case of, I don't know, just creating classes and doing the sliders, but binding the sliders and the settings to those classes?

You're gonna have to just fill me in 'cause I'm, not understanding that bit.

[00:19:21] Gabriella Laster: So we're still, keeping it fairly visual. you're not required to write any CSS obviously you can, but you are not required to. At the end of the day, we're, what we're thinking of is what are the CSS capabilities that we can. Come that we can tie, I dunno if tie is the right word, but what are the CSS functions that we can apply to different elements?

And that will create a scenario where we can be a lot more diverse and creative and improve our workflow tremendously. So by going. By taking a CFS first approach, what we're doing is we're broadening the capabilities that we can provide within the editor.

[00:20:07] Nathan Wrigley: So obviously you've probably, I imagine, had a little bit of a play with this. Can you describe how it differs, and I know it's an audio podcast that's gonna be fairly tricky, but are you able to describe the way that the CSS. First approach differs from what you've got right now? is there more, typing?

Is there, just, you're just gonna have to try and describe it basically. Sorry, that's diff difficult.

[00:20:32] Gabriella Laster: No, that's okay. At the end of the day, I think when you're using the editor itself, you're not gonna say, oh, I can now see that this is a CSS first approach. But what you will see is a lot more styling capabilities that are, Available due to the CSS first approach. It's more of a philosophy that sits in, the back of our minds when it comes to what are the capabilities we can provide and how can you apply the different CSS components to each element.

so visually it's still gonna be, it's still gonna be a very visual build. You're not gonna have to write CSS, we'll be able to introduce more c we're gonna be able to introduce CSS classes and things like that.

[00:21:15] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Yeah, I've seen endeavors in, not, rivals of yours, actually, more block-based solutions. So things in the Gutenberg editor where you set something up and then you, decide, I'm gonna call it that. I. This, button, I'm gonna call big red button or something like that. And, so all of the settings then bind to that CSS class.

And then later on if you encounter a button, you can just say, oh, find the class that I want. Oh, big red button. That's the one you click on it. And then it becomes the big red button. All of the, the styles that were associated with that sort of drop in. Is it? Is it like that you you fiddle with settings, do sliders, do margins, padding, background colors, gradients, all of that, and then say, let's call that big red button and I can re reuse big red button over and over again.

[00:22:06] Gabriella Laster: You got it.

[00:22:07] Nathan Wrigley: It's almost like you're creating global styles then. So right at the beginning of your elemental project, you'll, I dunno, you'll drop the button in for the first time and decide, okay, this project needs it to be this. You could really, oh, okay. That's interesting. So you can start to lean into things like you could have multiple classes.

So background color with button. Suddenly I've got background color, red. Button is, I dunno, padding this margin that. And so the combination of those classes then means that over time you can build up this sort of global pal of CSS things. Is that it? Have I have, I got it. you got it. You got it. that is the, that's the kind of the way that I've seen just a few. Companies doing it, and I, confess, when I saw that, I thought, that's ingenious. I like that, and then it stores my classes. That's pretty brave though. I would've thought for Elementor, because you, that is a really different approach and is the intention of that. Then just to make it so that you don't have to do the settings for buttons.

Every time you drop a button and you don't have to do the settings for this, that, and the other thing. You can just lock them in. And then just reuse them over and over again. And can I ask, you may not know the answer to this, will I be able to save those CSS settings that I've created classes and what have you?

Will I be able to save those to reuse them on other projects?

[00:23:35] Gabriella Laster: I think that's a great idea. If, that's, I don't think that's available yet, but I'll, propose that internally. I think that's

[00:23:42] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, because if I worked for, let's say I work for, I don't know, the BBC in the UK or something like that, and they've got like 20 different websites, but broadly speaking, they all have to look like the B, B, C, the colors are broadly similar. the layouts are all different. But if you could say, okay, there's my CSS.

Let's take it from that one, put it over to these other 19. Yeah, that would be interesting. Okay. So I think we've got a handle on what that is. That's a big change and hopefully after a small learning curve that will be, easy to accommodate. I'm guessing you are gonna be producing a lot of knowledge based content and a lot of tutorials to, to guide your current customers through the initial kind of pain of this.

[00:24:24] Gabriella Laster: Yes. So in that regard, we are working on the educational material that would be required, whether it is help center documents or tutorial videos or anything that can help you or anyone using it, adapt the new version quicker and, to have that simpler. Transition at the same time, you don't necessarily need to use the more complex features.

These are more geared towards professionals that want to improve their workflow, but you're not required to use it. You don't. You can continue setting your global styles, global colors. So this is an additional capability.

[00:25:02] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. In the, shared show notes that you, you gave to me very kindly, you said that, that workflow is one of the big things in V four, and we've touched on a few of those things. So we've touched on CSS classes. I think everybody listening to this podcast will probably understand variables and what they are, you might understand

them in, the sense of like global colors and things like that.

But there's another one here. Indicators. What, was the what? What were you thinking when you wrote that down? What are the indicators that you're describing there?

[00:25:29] Gabriella Laster: When you start working with CSS classes, you can create a lot of different classes and sometimes when it comes to, we spoke about buttons before, so you can have the big red button and then you can create another button and you can have different conflicts. So I can drag in a new button, and I may have a conflict with an existing CSS class that hayed applied to the new button that I dragged in.

So these indicators are gonna let me know when there's a conflict or when. The, local design updates, style updates take precedence over the CSS classes, so we'll help you visually see when there is an issue or when things are just smooth sailing.

[00:26:11] Nathan Wrigley: Oh yeah, of course. Because in the current setup of Elementor, everything is bound directly to its settings within the Elementor ui. obviously you could overwrite them with a CSS file somewhere, like Styles css, but I'm imagining that most of your customers are probably using all of the, the sliders and the, set, the padding area and the margin and all that.

But when you start to inject CSS. Yeah, there is a chance that you'll duplicate the same thing. So you might add in padding twice or background color twice inside of two different CSS variables. So you're building a system which indicates there's a potential conflict here, and then you have to go in and, ah, I see, figure out, where the error is, or which one you want it to take precedence or something like that.

[00:27:01] Gabriella Laster: So the way CSS classes also are set up, you have, there's a hierarchy to them. you can adjust the hierarchy. We'll have a CSS class manager, but if there is a conflict between the current settings of a element and one that you applied, then we will let you know where that conflict

[00:27:20] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. Oh, that's really nice. That's doing a lot of heavy lifting for us. that's lovely. Now, one of the things you mentioned also in, in the endeavor for V four was to make it more. More performance. I think one of the criticisms of Elementor in the past has been, especially when you look at the dom, you know the output, HTML, the kind of, I think somebody coined it as, not in terms of elemental, but page builders in the WordPress space in general, this whole thing, I think they're called it Diviv.

Ception, where basically you've got a diviv and then another diviv and then another div, and all you're trying to do is put a paragraph on the page, but it's encapsulated by. 12 divs in order to get the paragraph, because there's all these other things that could happen. is it an endeavor to strip out a lot of that, or were you talking about the speed of the page builder or the way the page builder loads quickly when you're using it?

Or was it more about outputting clean, simple, easy to read. HTML.

[00:28:16] Gabriella Laster: It is actually both. so we want to, on the one hand, make the editor more performant so that the, so that your work is faster. At the same time, we are removing a lot of the extra divs, a lot of the extra wrappers. the CSS build also, contributes to that, but we are eliminating every unnecessary diviv that we can.

So I've actually seen it, myself in person where we compared a. V three widget to a V four widget. So you could have maybe four rows, four divs in a V three element and trust one in V four. So it's a huge difference.

[00:28:53] Nathan Wrigley: One of the things that has really, I think, made Elemental grow is not just the fact that it's elemental, that right from the outset when Elemental came out, a bunch of third party solutions came out to extend what Elementor could do.

famous form plugins made sure that their forms worked inside of Elementor, you've got third party add-ons that have. Got additional capabilities so that you can drop their elements in. And I was just wondering if you intend to create documentation or reach out to these, this wider developer community so that when the time is right and the product is basically ready to move, that they will also be in the loop and be able to be supported through that.

'cause I know that's a. A pretty big ecosystem and a lot of your users will be relying on those third party products as well, so I guess they, we'd like to know whether or not you're gonna be thinking about them.

[00:29:47] Gabriella Laster: Yes, that is something we think about. So we will be preparing documentation for other developers to, to use and to update, their products. and we're also going to be reaching out to them. That is a hundred percent something that we are taking into consideration. We are preparing developer documentation, and we will definitely be reaching out to everybody to make sure that this is as smooth a transition as possible for everyone involved.

[00:30:16] Nathan Wrigley: I guess people are gonna also be asking the question, pricing, is this enormous amount of work that's gonna be taking place. I wonder if it'll affect the licensing structure or the pricing model or anything like that. you may not know the answer to that at the moment, but I'm just curious to ask, have you heard any, any rumors of.

Pricing changing, either up or down or at the moment as far as is it basically gonna stay the same, licenses for the same cost? Everything should just be the same.

[00:30:46] Gabriella Laster: We don't have any intention to change the pricing to accommodate editor V four.

[00:30:51] Nathan Wrigley: Nice and simple. There you go. nice. Easy answer to that one. And as far as I am concerned, that's about the sweet spot for me, about half an hour, something like that. So let's just go through what we went through. So we talked about the fact that we are moving from V three to V four. it's gonna be starting in a beta round in about April, end of April, 2025.

if you're an elemental user, presumably there'll be communication about that and how you can contribute to that endeavor, but it's gonna be running throughout the year, 2025 and taking as long as it takes, basically. but the big takeaways really are, are a modest but noticeable, change in the ui.

So most things will. Be very familiar, but there might be a few tweaks here and there. You can combine things inside of posts and pages. So Elementor, you can use the V three and the V four stuff at the same time, but maybe not in the exact, same element at the same time. And I guess the big one for me is this whole CSS thing, the, move to CSS variables.

So V four landing soon, hopefully in the year 2025. do you have a URL. Specifically right now to get people onboarded to that? Or is it more a case of keep an eye on the blog? I will make sure that anything that I see goes into my, show notes for this particular episode.

And if you listen to the, this week in WordPress show, we'll be sure to be constantly updating people over there as well. So do you know, is there a particular URL at the moment or is it more a case of keep, your ears to the ground a bit?

[00:32:26] Gabriella Laster: We do have a URL. You can sign up for all the access four. I'll share it with you and then we can have that linked.

[00:32:32] Nathan Wrigley: I will definitely put that into the show notes. So we dunno what it is right now, but it'll definitely be put into the show notes. But, Yeah, can't say it out loud 'cause we dunno what it is just yet, but, we'll figure it out in that case. Gabriella, I think, I think our time is up Elemental V four a very exciting and, new innovative approach to your elemental websites dropping at some point in the year 2025.

Thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.

[00:33:00] Gabriella Laster: Thank you for having me.

[00:33:02] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, that's all we've got time for this week. I hope that you enjoyed that. If you've got any commentary on that, head to wpbuilds.com and search for episode number 419, and leave us a comment there.

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We are also kept on the airwaves by Bluehost. Bluehost, redefine your web hosting experience with Bluehost Cloud. Managed WordPress hosting that comes with lightning fast websites, 100% network uptime, and 24 7 priority support. With Bluehost Cloud the possibilities are out of this world. Experience it today at bluehost.com/cloud.

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And sincere thanks go to GoDaddy Pro, Bluehost and Omnisend for their ongoing continuing support of the WP Builds podcast. Podcasts like this could not happen without the gracious support of companies just like them. Once more, if you want to be involved, head to wpbuilds.com/advertise to find out more.

Just before we finish, one last reminder. If you would like to be a part of the Page Builder Summit, it's starting in a few weeks time, the 12th of May during the course of that week. Head to pagebuildersummit.com, and sign up to get your free ticket.

Okay, we will be back next week for an interview episode. It only remains for me to fade in some cheesy music. Say stay safe. Have a good week. Bye-bye for now.